Author Topic: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple  (Read 3559 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2018, 11:17:58 PM »
I'm sure God will so proud of you for defending Him against the nasty gehys and their cooties.
I have no problem with gay people.  Most of them are very good people and I would never label them as evil for a sinful activity they choose to indulge in. The bible is quite clear on the activity as being sin. Gay is just a label.  It isn't who the person is. Dropping the label doesn't change who the person is either.

Yeah and it's just a coincidence that all the talk about tradition and the Eucharist goes out the window as soon as the idea of them getting acceptance from your bishops comes up- when insane nationalistic bishops, fist fighting monks, graft, child molestation, etc. are all within the realm of things you tolerate.

What do "revealed preferences" mean to you?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2018, 11:29:18 PM »
Yeah and it's just a coincidence that all the talk about tradition and the Eucharist goes out the window as soon as the idea of them getting acceptance from your bishops comes up- when insane nationalistic bishops, fist fighting monks, graft, child molestation, etc. are all within the realm of things you tolerate.
That's cherrypicky...
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2018, 11:40:31 PM »
Yeah and it's just a coincidence that all the talk about tradition and the Eucharist goes out the window as soon as the idea of them getting acceptance from your bishops comes up- when insane nationalistic bishops, fist fighting monks, graft, child molestation, etc. are all within the realm of things you tolerate.
That's cherrypicky...

My point is that no Church is perfect, but it's strange that all the ugly things about Orthodoxy are acceptable but not the dreaded gays. It's a bizarre obsession.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,469
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2018, 12:00:24 AM »
Yeah and it's just a coincidence that all the talk about tradition and the Eucharist goes out the window as soon as the idea of them getting acceptance from your bishops comes up- when insane nationalistic bishops, fist fighting monks, graft, child molestation, etc. are all within the realm of things you tolerate.
That's cherrypicky...

My point is that no Church is perfect, but it's strange that all the ugly things about Orthodoxy are acceptable but not the dreaded gays. It's a bizarre obsession.
Churches are full of sinners. Isnt that what the churches duty is? To correct the sinners.  Im sure that the weak hierarchy will fall victim to sin as well. Could you imagine a sexy young woman confronting you with there sins. Or a man if thats your thing. Its enough to make your knees buckle.  How many people do you know that would not fall in a situation like that? You need saints to run the church.  Sure there will be many that will fall because of what they hear alone. Those that are true to the cloth have to be commended.  Someones sins can become your sins very easily. The job isn't for everyone.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,727
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2018, 12:02:50 AM »
Yeah and it's just a coincidence that all the talk about tradition and the Eucharist goes out the window as soon as the idea of them getting acceptance from your bishops comes up- when insane nationalistic bishops, fist fighting monks, graft, child molestation, etc. are all within the realm of things you tolerate.
That's cherrypicky...

My point is that no Church is perfect, but it's strange that all the ugly things about Orthodoxy are acceptable but not the dreaded gays. It's a bizarre obsession.
yes, yours is.
Acceptable? Says who?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,727
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2018, 12:08:16 AM »
Good luck staying in business.  Most wedding planners are gay today.
Most wedding couples are straight. And Christian.

Nominally/lukewarmly Christian in a (from your POV) heretical denom, you mean.

But at least they aren't teh gehys, right? That's all that matters.

At least in holding heretical beliefs they are disavowing their support for a a practice which is an abomination in God's eyes. It's better to be a Good Samaritan than a hypocritical Pharisee.

My point is that Isa's silent majority are hardly paragons of Orthodox morality and I'd wager that most would, at the very least, not care that their baker was "insufficiently" anti-gay.
how about sufficiently pro-God and morality? or is that too much to ask?

The begged question of morality aside, self-proclaimed Christians who are so obsessed with this issue that they'll boycott a business for not refusing service to somebody else are thankfully a shrinking minority.
what an idiotic twisting of the facts-where were ANY Christians calling for a boycott of ANY business not refusing service to ANYONE?
shut your projector off. You're overworking it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Jackson02

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,014
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2018, 12:24:27 AM »
Getting back into this conversation, I'll just say I wouldn't have made the cake either.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2018, 01:04:54 AM »
My point is that no Church is perfect, but it's strange that all the ugly things about Orthodoxy are acceptable but not the dreaded gays. It's a bizarre obsession.
One thing is for you to think we take it too harsh with homosexuality, another is to claim we take graft and child molestation lightlier than homosexuality just to overstate our position on sodomy. This is more than fallacious, it's calumnious.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 01:05:28 AM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2018, 02:55:03 AM »
My point is that no Church is perfect, but it's strange that all the ugly things about Orthodoxy are acceptable but not the dreaded gays. It's a bizarre obsession.
One thing is for you to think we take it too harsh with homosexuality, another is to claim we take graft and child molestation lightlier than homosexuality just to overstate our position on sodomy. This is more than fallacious, it's calumnious.

By "acceptable" I meant "not a dealbreaker for Tzimis." My apologies for any implication about Orthodoxy as a whole. It was unintentional.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 03:01:21 AM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2018, 04:02:31 AM »
Oh, I thought "you" was plural in #45, I see there was a misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 04:02:46 AM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Sharbel

  • Glory to God in all things!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,599
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Greek
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2018, 10:13:59 AM »
It's a pyrrhic victory, since it was based on a court having been mean to the accused and on his subjectivity.  Unfortunately, the objective rights of religion, of property, of free speech, of freedom of association, to work dutifully were ignored.  I fear that on purpose, since, in this post truth culture, we make it up as we go along.
Sanctus Deus
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ
Άγιος ο Θεός

Offline augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,817
  • Faith: Higher Criticism
  • Jurisdiction: Dutch
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2018, 11:02:26 AM »
Ugh yeah a Republican ND legislator came out swinging in defense of freedom of association and business and said one should also be able to refuse to sell cakes to black people .
"I saw a miracle where 2 people entered church one by baptism and one by chrismation. On pictures the one received by full baptism was shinning in light the one by chrismation no."

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,607
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2018, 04:04:07 PM »
How was the right to work ignored?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline Sharbel

  • Glory to God in all things!
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,599
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Greek
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2018, 03:40:02 PM »
How was the right to work ignored?
No one can be forced to perform a task against his will, even if paid to.  That'd be serfdom.
Sanctus Deus
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ
Άγιος ο Θεός

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2018, 05:05:53 PM »
How was the right to work ignored?
No one can be forced to perform a task against his will, even if paid to.  That'd be serfdom.

Non-conscripted military can. You can even be jailed for refusing to follow orders.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 05:06:10 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2018, 07:32:37 PM »
Non-conscripted military can. You can even be jailed for refusing to follow orders.
Individual caprices aren't comparable to police power and state of exception. The state must restrict or define some rights in order to protect others in very strict matters. Which bakery is chosen for a cake is not in that scope.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 07:34:04 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2018, 09:16:55 PM »
Non-conscripted military can. You can even be jailed for refusing to follow orders.
Individual caprices aren't comparable to police power and state of exception. The state must restrict or define some rights in order to protect others in very strict matters. Which bakery is chosen for a cake is not in that scope.

I guess it depends on whether allowing discrimination in this instance could lead to more serious ones like denial of housing, I'm not sure whether it would or not.

It does seem odd to me that a baker should be allowed to refuse to sell to gay people but not to black people (I know most conservative Christians don't consider the two sets comparable, but the law seems to be largely deciding to).

Then again, part of it might come down to whether bakers can be considered artists with a little more of a right to refuse (though I still can't imagine what would happen if a painter refused to take a commission from a customer because he was black).
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Sethrak

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,805
  • Faith: Armenian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Etchmiadzin, Armenia
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2018, 11:48:32 PM »
I believe no one should be forced to work for anyone ~ or bake or ```

Long while back I went into a restaurant in Gardena, California ~ I sat down at the counter ~ I was ignored for a while ~ no one spoke anything but Japanese ~ everything was written in Japanese ~ I understood ~ they wanted only Japanese in there ~ so I left ```
Իմաստութիւն Հոր Յիսուս՝ տո՝ւր մեզ իաստուփին՝ զբարիս խորհել եւ խոսել եւ գործել առաջի Քո յամենայն ժամ : եւ ի չար խորհրդոց ի բանից եւ ի գործոց   փրկեա  զմեզ՝ ամէն:
Jesus, Wisdom of the Father, give us wisdom, to think, speak and do what is Good before you at all times. And save us from evil thoughts, words and deed, amen.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,469
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2018, 01:52:01 AM »
Is he baking cakes with marijuana?  What the hell is so important about this guys cake?

Offline Sethrak

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,805
  • Faith: Armenian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Etchmiadzin, Armenia
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2018, 06:24:22 PM »
It's not his cake that are important ~ it is his right to his religious conviction ~ not be punished for refusing to bake that particular cake and decorate it in celebration of an event he thinks immoral or foul ```


Does he really bake Cannabis Cakes ```
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 06:25:08 PM by Sethrak »
Իմաստութիւն Հոր Յիսուս՝ տո՝ւր մեզ իաստուփին՝ զբարիս խորհել եւ խոսել եւ գործել առաջի Քո յամենայն ժամ : եւ ի չար խորհրդոց ի բանից եւ ի գործոց   փրկեա  զմեզ՝ ամէն:
Jesus, Wisdom of the Father, give us wisdom, to think, speak and do what is Good before you at all times. And save us from evil thoughts, words and deed, amen.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2018, 11:38:22 PM »
Is he baking cakes with marijuana?
Please, do let me know if you find out!
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline scamandrius

  • A man of many, many turns
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,376
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #66 on: June 11, 2018, 02:16:40 AM »
Non-conscripted military can. You can even be jailed for refusing to follow orders.
Individual caprices aren't comparable to police power and state of exception. The state must restrict or define some rights in order to protect others in very strict matters. Which bakery is chosen for a cake is not in that scope.



It does seem odd to me that a baker should be allowed to refuse to sell to gay people but not to black people (I know most conservative Christians don't consider the two sets comparable, but the law seems to be largely deciding to).



this isn't about selling something to one group and not to another.  this is a matter about freedom of religious expression. He didn't deny gay people from purchasing baked goods; he declined, rather, to use his artistic talents for use for a gay wedding.  That's a first amendment issue and even though the Supreme Court did not rule specifically on those grounds but on the grounds that the Civil Rights COmmission in Colorado showed blatant hostility and outward bigotry towards a person who could hold such religious beliefs, that is the crux of the issue here.  His same religious convictions do not allow him to make cakes celebrating divorce either.  Should he be forced to?
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,635
  • A well-sexed theologian
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #67 on: June 11, 2018, 08:21:10 AM »
Is he baking cakes with marijuana?
Please, do let me know if you find out!

He already has. 
This post gave me autism.

Since when has a Hierarch done anything for you? . . .

Apparently you can get the Juice or Power from a certain Icon.

Offline FinnJames

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,033
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of Finland
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #68 on: June 11, 2018, 08:35:03 AM »

His same religious convictions do not allow him to make cakes celebrating divorce either.  Should he be forced to?

A bit off topic here, but: Do people really celebrate divorce with cakes/parties these days? Seems an odd way to acknowledge one's part in the failure of a relationship with someone one used to love and vowed to care for.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,469
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2018, 09:22:45 AM »
Is he baking cakes with marijuana?
Please, do let me know if you find out!

He already has.
He's in Colorado after all. Now that he has a good Evangelical base. People can fly in for the weekend and experience a touch of heavenly cake.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2018, 11:49:22 AM »
Fire on Babylon, dude.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2018, 06:35:49 PM »
Non-conscripted military can. You can even be jailed for refusing to follow orders.
Individual caprices aren't comparable to police power and state of exception. The state must restrict or define some rights in order to protect others in very strict matters. Which bakery is chosen for a cake is not in that scope.



It does seem odd to me that a baker should be allowed to refuse to sell to gay people but not to black people (I know most conservative Christians don't consider the two sets comparable, but the law seems to be largely deciding to).



this isn't about selling something to one group and not to another.  this is a matter about freedom of religious expression. He didn't deny gay people from purchasing baked goods; he declined, rather, to use his artistic talents for use for a gay wedding.

The whole thing seems like kind of a weird gray area to me. He's willing to sell them other baked goods he made, knowing what they'd be used for, but not to make a cake for them. Can a painter decline to use his talents and attention to quality to paint a gay couple's house? Is Amazon responsible for the dedication messages that people use their software to put on orders? Part of me just sees this whole thing as incredibly petty when weighed against the larger issue of anti-LGBT discrimination.

That's a first amendment issue and even though the Supreme Court did not rule specifically on those grounds but on the grounds that the Civil Rights COmmission in Colorado showed blatant hostility and outward bigotry towards a person who could hold such religious beliefs, that is the crux of the issue here.  His same religious convictions do not allow him to make cakes celebrating divorce either.  Should he be forced to?

How do you know? Is he a Trad Catholic? A hypothetical "divorce cake" doesn't have the angle of protecting an often persecuted minority.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 06:38:29 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2018, 06:36:52 PM »

His same religious convictions do not allow him to make cakes celebrating divorce either.  Should he be forced to?

A bit off topic here, but: Do people really celebrate divorce with cakes/parties these days? Seems an odd way to acknowledge one's part in the failure of a relationship with someone one used to love and vowed to care for.

Never heard of it happening. Though maybe if it was a particularly nasty divorce, one of the parties might get some catharsis out of it at a get-together with their friends.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #73 on: June 11, 2018, 07:34:14 PM »
It's not petty, you must see the precedents this kind of ruling opens. If the state can force you to use your skills and office to celebrate something you're allowed to openly dislike (freedom of religion and expression), the state can force you to do many other things. Nobody was habitually hanging homosexuals on trees just two generations ago and LGBT people are not being confined to ghettoes, so the racism comparisons are a huge stretch.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #74 on: June 11, 2018, 07:39:56 PM »
It's not petty, you must see the precedents this kind of ruling opens. If the state can force you to use your skills and office to celebrate something you're allowed to openly dislike (freedom of religion and expression), the state can force you to do many other things. Nobody was habitually hanging homosexuals on trees just two generations ago and LGBT people are not being confined to ghettoes, so the racism comparisons are a huge stretch.

So, you can invoke a slippery slope in favor of the ruling but not against it? Why?

See, it may not have been quite that bad, but people did often lose their jobs for being known to be gay and gay people were killed in the Holocaust.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 07:40:13 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,855
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Supreme Court Rules in favor of Colorado baker who refused Gay couple
« Reply #75 on: June 11, 2018, 10:49:13 PM »
Because a juridical slippery slope is a current fact: courts use precedents. A moral thing is a whole other deal, and I question the very morality of such racist behaviour.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth