Author Topic: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.  (Read 737 times)

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Offline Xavier

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In Africa, according to many inside Muslim sources, milions of Muslims have left Islam for Christianity every year. Below, a Muslim leader laments that Catholic evangelism, unlike Islamism, is holistic and develops the whole person through schools and universities, hospitals and the physical works of mercy; and not just by building churches only.

This news verifies even in this century what British historian Thomas Macaulay reluctantly observed about the Catholic Church in another age; just like the Church through Pope St. Gregory the Great and St. Augustine of Canterbury had first evangelized Britain for Christ; just like the Catholic Church through Pope St. Leo the Great fearlessly stood up to Attila the Hun, the Church was still doing so in Macaulay's time and is still doing so today: "The Catholic Church is still sending forth to the farthest ends of the world missionaries as zealous as those who landed in Kent with Augustin, and still confronting hostile kings with the same spirit with which she confronted Attila ... She saw the commencement of all the governments and of all the ecclesiastical establishments that now exist in the world; and we feel no assurance that she is not destined to see the end of them all. She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain, before the Frank had passed the Rhine, when Grecian eloquence still flourished at Antioch, when idols were still worshipped in the temple of Mecca."

Main article: http://www.virtueonline.org/six-million-african-muslims-convert-christianity-each-year

Quote
Six Million African Muslims Convert to Christianity Each Year
Synopsis from The American Thinker

by James M. Arlandson

OrthodoxyToday.org
Commentary on social and moral issues of the day

This translation of a televised conversation on the Al-Jazeerah Website reveals a rare glimpse into the outlook of Muslim scholars who are concerned about Christianity's growth. The invited guest is Sheikh Ahmad Al Katani; the president of The Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, which is an institution specializing in graduating imams and Islamic preachers.

Katani starts off describing the overall problem:

Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa's main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century. On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed.

From what I have heard from reliable sources, six million may be too low. Reliable accounts say that one hundred thousand Africans convert to Christianity per day, though not all of them come from Islam. Then Katani says Muslims should build schools before mosques, in order to build the worshipper (Muslim) before the building. Why? To stop the the dangerous "Christian missionary octopus"

This happens often! The wealthy Arab builds a mosque for himself or one of his parents of his friend, but my dear sir, building a mosque comes as a second stage. In America, the price of building an Islamic school is 5 million dollars. In Africa, 50 thousand dollars are enough to build a very reasonably sized school. I say this and I take full responsibility for it; building a school comes before building a mosque. Build the worshiper before you build the mosque. Take for example yourself; you go to the mosque five times a day and if you added all that time it would equal an hour or maybe two hours if you include the Friday prayer. However, if I ask you how long you stayed at school, you will reply that you spent years in middle school and years in high school. Likewise the African goes to the mosque, but if we built him a school where he could spend most of his time, and provided specialized educators we could at least stop this dangerous Christian missionary octopus.
Locution, Aug 18, 2014: "They will realize that I have released an ocean of graces which have changed their darkness into light. They will realize that they have been freed from the past century of diabolical control. They will also know that this great gift has come through the consecration of Russia made by the Holy Father in communion with all the bishops in the world. http://locutions-forever.org/locutions/show/2014-08-18/1-the-overcoming-of-separation

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 11:48:05 AM »
Well, then you should stop going to the SSPX, because clearly, the Roman Catholic Church is thriving and you have no reason to ignore the infallible Pope.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 01:50:35 PM »
Glory to God.  May they all grow in their new faith.  :)
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 03:46:05 PM »
Xavier is a SSPX guy ?

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 04:02:58 PM »
"Islamism" isn't right there, it means fundamentalist political Islamic ideology. If you're coming from a Portuguese or French-language background, islamismo/islamisme is synonym with Islã(o)/Islam, but not in other major languages.
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 04:05:56 PM »
I'd be dubious of the source but if this is true it's IMO a good thing. I believe in reality Muslims become mostly Pentecostalists and other sort of Protestants.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 04:29:45 PM »
Xavier is a SSPX guy ?

Kind of...he goes to both FSSP and SSPX Masses, but he argues the position that the Pope recognizes all the Sacraments of the SSPX and therefore the SSPX is canonical and permissible to attend as any ordinary Mass.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 04:32:43 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 05:19:17 PM »
Kind of...he goes to both FSSP and SSPX Masses, but he argues the position that the Pope recognizes all the Sacraments of the SSPX and therefore the SSPX is canonical and permissible to attend as any ordinary Mass.
If so, the Pope recognizes all the sacraments of the Orthodox Churches and it is permissible for him to fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Divine Liturgy. ::)
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 05:23:52 PM »
Anyone else find the term "Sunday obligation" incredibly gross and clinical?
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 05:35:40 PM »
Anyone else find the term "Sunday obligation" incredibly gross and clinical?
As a recent convert from Catholicism, I find the term sad.  As a father, I'd resort, regrettably sometimes too easily, to disciplining my children only after they persisted in disobeying.  The term obligation related to worshiping and thanking God sounds like the Catholic Church has either given up teaching her children or refused to treat most of the faithful as sentient adults, perhaps both.
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 09:03:58 PM »
Anyone else find the term "Sunday obligation" incredibly gross and clinical?

It’s certainly what’s led to the “I go to Mass on Sundays, so I’m good” attitude. Similarly, it’s sister term “Holy Days of Obligation” has caused many a Catholic to view the feasts as burdensome interruptions of their weekly schedule. This is also why many feasts, especially Ascension, tend to get moved to the following Sunday, so that the faithful have an easier time fulfilling their obligation.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2018, 12:53:28 AM »
In Africa, according to many inside Muslim sources, milions of Muslims have left Islam for Christianity every year. Below, a Muslim leader laments that Catholic evangelism, unlike Islamism, is holistic and develops the whole person through schools and universities, hospitals and the physical works of mercy; and not just by building churches only.

This news verifies even in this century what British historian Thomas Macaulay reluctantly observed about the Catholic Church in another age; just like the Church through Pope St. Gregory the Great and St. Augustine of Canterbury had first evangelized Britain for Christ; just like the Catholic Church through Pope St. Leo the Great fearlessly stood up to Attila the Hun, the Church was still doing so in Macaulay's time and is still doing so today: "The Catholic Church is still sending forth to the farthest ends of the world missionaries as zealous as those who landed in Kent with Augustin, and still confronting hostile kings with the same spirit with which she confronted Attila ... She saw the commencement of all the governments and of all the ecclesiastical establishments that now exist in the world; and we feel no assurance that she is not destined to see the end of them all. She was great and respected before the Saxon had set foot on Britain, before the Frank had passed the Rhine, when Grecian eloquence still flourished at Antioch, when idols were still worshipped in the temple of Mecca."
All true. But what does that to do with the Vatican?

Main article: http://www.virtueonline.org/six-million-african-muslims-convert-christianity-each-year
Quote
Six Million African Muslims Convert to Christianity Each Year
Synopsis from The American Thinker

by James M. Arlandson

OrthodoxyToday.org
Commentary on social and moral issues of the day

This translation of a televised conversation on the Al-Jazeerah Website reveals a rare glimpse into the outlook of Muslim scholars who are concerned about Christianity's growth. The invited guest is Sheikh Ahmad Al Katani; the president of The Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, which is an institution specializing in graduating imams and Islamic preachers.

Katani starts off describing the overall problem:

Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa's main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century. On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed.

From what I have heard from reliable sources, six million may be too low. Reliable accounts say that one hundred thousand Africans convert to Christianity per day, though not all of them come from Islam. Then Katani says Muslims should build schools before mosques, in order to build the worshipper (Muslim) before the building. Why? To stop the the dangerous "Christian missionary octopus"

This happens often! The wealthy Arab builds a mosque for himself or one of his parents of his friend, but my dear sir, building a mosque comes as a second stage. In America, the price of building an Islamic school is 5 million dollars. In Africa, 50 thousand dollars are enough to build a very reasonably sized school. I say this and I take full responsibility for it; building a school comes before building a mosque. Build the worshiper before you build the mosque. Take for example yourself; you go to the mosque five times a day and if you added all that time it would equal an hour or maybe two hours if you include the Friday prayer. However, if I ask you how long you stayed at school, you will reply that you spent years in middle school and years in high school. Likewise the African goes to the mosque, but if we built him a school where he could spend most of his time, and provided specialized educators we could at least stop this dangerous Christian missionary octopus.
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2018, 07:02:29 AM »
Kind of...he goes to both FSSP and SSPX Masses, but he argues the position that the Pope recognizes all the Sacraments of the SSPX and therefore the SSPX is canonical and permissible to attend as any ordinary Mass.
If so, the Pope recognizes all the sacraments of the Orthodox Churches and it is permissible for him to fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Divine Liturgy. ::)
The priest wouldn't let him.

Also if the pope "recognizing" is something that counts, it should be noted that he also recognizes muslims to worship the same god, and the Christ-denying synagogue to be his elder brothers.


Offline Samn!

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2018, 12:08:09 PM »
While more conversions happen from Islam to Christianity than a lot of people think pretty much everywhere, "the Africans are leaving Islam for Christianity" has long been a trope used by Muslim televangelists for fundraising and riling people up, so the statistics given by such sources are usually just made up...

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2018, 12:42:36 PM »
Kind of...he goes to both FSSP and SSPX Masses, but he argues the position that the Pope recognizes all the Sacraments of the SSPX and therefore the SSPX is canonical and permissible to attend as any ordinary Mass.
If so, the Pope recognizes all the sacraments of the Orthodox Churches and it is permissible for him to fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Divine Liturgy. ::)
The priest wouldn't let him.

Also if the pope "recognizing" is something that counts, it should be noted that he also recognizes muslims to worship the same god, and the Christ-denying synagogue to be his elder brothers.

Those were declared in Vatican II, rather than a Pope simply stating it.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 12:52:51 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"I arise today
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Through belief in the Threeness,
Through confession of the Oneness
of the Creator of creation."
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2018, 04:04:18 PM »
It’s certainly what’s led to the “I go to Mass on Sundays, so I’m good” attitude. Similarly, it’s sister term “Holy Days of Obligation” has caused many a Catholic to view the feasts as burdensome interruptions of their weekly schedule. This is also why many feasts, especially Ascension, tend to get moved to the following Sunday, so that the faithful have an easier time fulfilling their obligation.
My previous Catholic priest used to give people asking him how long the Mass would take, lest they miss the beginning of a televised sports event, dispensation from their Sunday obligation.  He said that otherwise he'd see them squirming in the pews all the time as children berating their parents if they're there yet.  He had no patience for those willing to worship a ball instead of God.
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2018, 04:29:00 PM »
While more conversions happen from Islam to Christianity than a lot of people think pretty much everywhere, "the Africans are leaving Islam for Christianity" has long been a trope used by Muslim televangelists for fundraising and riling people up, so the statistics given by such sources are usually just made up...

And by Evangelical televangelists, for that matter. The "Jesus appears to them in a dream" story is pretty common in the US.

Kind of...he goes to both FSSP and SSPX Masses, but he argues the position that the Pope recognizes all the Sacraments of the SSPX and therefore the SSPX is canonical and permissible to attend as any ordinary Mass.
If so, the Pope recognizes all the sacraments of the Orthodox Churches and it is permissible for him to fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Divine Liturgy. ::)
The priest wouldn't let him.

Also if the pope "recognizing" is something that counts, it should be noted that he also recognizes muslims to worship the same god, and the Christ-denying synagogue to be his elder brothers.

Those were declared in Vatican II, rather than a Pope simply stating it.

Does it matter? He still kind of rubber stamped it.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2018, 07:21:45 PM »
While more conversions happen from Islam to Christianity than a lot of people think pretty much everywhere, "the Africans are leaving Islam for Christianity" has long been a trope used by Muslim televangelists for fundraising and riling people up, so the statistics given by such sources are usually just made up...

And by Evangelical televangelists, for that matter. The "Jesus appears to them in a dream" story is pretty common in the US.

Kind of...he goes to both FSSP and SSPX Masses, but he argues the position that the Pope recognizes all the Sacraments of the SSPX and therefore the SSPX is canonical and permissible to attend as any ordinary Mass.
If so, the Pope recognizes all the sacraments of the Orthodox Churches and it is permissible for him to fulfill his Sunday obligation at a Divine Liturgy. ::)
The priest wouldn't let him.

Also if the pope "recognizing" is something that counts, it should be noted that he also recognizes muslims to worship the same god, and the Christ-denying synagogue to be his elder brothers.

Those were declared in Vatican II, rather than a Pope simply stating it.

Does it matter? He still kind of rubber stamped it.

Well, many traditionalist Catholics hold a minimalistic view when it comes to Papal Infallibility, believing him only to be infallible when declaring dogma, and capable of error everywhere else.

Vatican II is interpreted today by Roman Catholics as an Ecumenical Council, whose entire texts are infallible. The SSPX has a hard time interpreting how Vatican II fits into the whole thing, which makes it more difficult to justify it. It ranges from "it's compatible when viewed through a traditional lens" to "it was a Pastoral Council, and lacks the intent of an Ecumenical Council" to sedevacantism.

Sorry for the ambiguity.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 07:23:23 PM by LivenotoneviL »
"I arise today
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2018, 07:26:46 PM »
S'alright.
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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2018, 02:28:21 AM »
Anyone else find the term "Sunday obligation" incredibly gross and clinical?

It’s certainly what’s led to the “I go to Mass on Sundays, so I’m good” attitude. Similarly, it’s sister term “Holy Days of Obligation” has caused many a Catholic to view the feasts as burdensome interruptions of their weekly schedule. This is also why many feasts, especially Ascension, tend to get moved to the following Sunday, so that the faithful have an easier time fulfilling their obligation.
Yes, a bit, more in language than in it's intent that we practice a sabbath.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 02:29:47 AM by Anastasia1 »
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2018, 03:42:06 AM »
Yeah, I agree that the intent is fine. It's just kind of a disturbing way to talk about it.
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
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Offline Golgotha

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2018, 07:20:07 AM »
Pentecostals seem to be growing fast in Latin America. I'm a bit surprised how big the Charismatic Catholic Renewal movement is there. But I guess if you can't beat them join them. I think the Orthodox would just add more incense to their censers  ;)

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/07/26/how-the-charismatic-movement-conquered-brazil/

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2018, 03:18:53 PM »
Pentecostals seem to be growing fast in Latin America. I'm a bit surprised how big the Charismatic Catholic Renewal movement is there. But I guess if you can't beat them join them. I think the Orthodox would just add more incense to their censers  ;)

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/07/26/how-the-charismatic-movement-conquered-brazil/

Curious article, especially for its lack of depth.  PP FI is the quintessential Latin American bishop, under whose leadership the Catholic share of the population has been decimated at an accelerated rate.

Alas, the article fails to mention an burgeoning reversal of trend in Brazil, as many former Catholics are growing disappointed at the shallowness of the prosperity gospel or, more precisely, at the prosperity of the gospel preacher, as many denominations have been rocked by financial scandals and imprisonment of dozens of leaders for misappropriation of church funds, and are returning to the Catholic Church.  Unfortunately, too little and too late, as Catholicism in Brazil is set to lose its majority status by the end of the next decade.

However, there seems to be a nascent curiosity about Orthodoxy, with the Antiochians sporting the largest number of faithful.  One huge obstacle is that, even after a generation, most Orthodox Churches are still focused on shepherding their respective ethnic group, neglecting missionary efforts.  It would be an interesting counter point to the religious carnival in Brazil.
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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2018, 03:57:00 PM »
I'd say Antiochians got the first Brazilian converts naturally, as many natives saw their churches as simply "one of the local churches", were attracted by the beauty and depth of Orthodoxy and joined in. Nowadays mission is championed by the churches of Poland and Serbia, but coordinated efforts and internet makes all jurisdictions grow, even if the hierarchy itself is more ethnically-minded. Last year the Russian Orthodox Church got a bishop with a good missionary orientation too (even if the turmoil involving Deacon Marcelo makes it sound otherwise), but they're just starting, so the fruits will appear with time.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Santo Chavez

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2018, 06:20:43 PM »
You can't make this stuff up.

So I walked into another thread created by Xavier, where he usually advertises the supposed superiority of his chosen religion, to only end up walking away laughing.

Xavier has as his motto "Totus Tuus, Maria" which was actually coined and used by Pope John Paul II; and, at the same time Xavier posts in his OP incredible sounding information about Muslims converting by the millions to Roman Catholicism; but, here's the kicker: John Paul II in May of 1999 actually kissed the Koran and later asked Saint John the Baptist to protect Islam.

Quote
...May Saint John Baptist protect Islam...
https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/travels/2000/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000321_wadi-al-kharrar.html



« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 06:22:52 PM by Santo Chavez »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Millions of Muslims become Catholics every year in Africa.
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 08:16:59 PM »
He didn't coin it, it's paraphrase of a line from Louis de Montfort.
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things