Author Topic: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?  (Read 322 times)

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Offline Jackson02

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Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« on: May 19, 2018, 08:48:32 PM »
Multiple modern historians have called both St. Nicholas and empress Alexandra stupid and unfit to rule. What do you think of this matter?
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2018, 09:32:49 PM »
I wouldn't call them stupid, but I do think they were just as woefully out of touch as most 19th Century aristocrats. "Let them eat cake and bootstraps" summed up the standard attitude towards the poor that lead to Communism in the first place.

Combine that with a certain amount of naivete (ie. getting taken in by Rasputin, Nicholas's "give peace a chance" speech at the 1912 New York diplomatic summit) and regrettable but understandable paranoia--Nicholas's grandfather was assassinated by the sister of Lenin, his cousin was murdered by an anarchist at the start of the war, his father and much of the Church filled his head with Antisemitic conspiracy garbage since he could walk--and it's not hard to see how WWI ended in revolution for them but not for the Germans or the English.

So, not necessarily unfit by the low standards of the time, but not very good objectively.




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« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 09:34:54 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline Jackson02

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2018, 10:18:43 PM »
I wouldn't call them stupid, but I do think they were just as woefully out of touch as most 19th Century aristocrats. "Let them eat cake and bootstraps" summed up the standard attitude towards the poor that lead to Communism in the first place.

Combine that with a certain amount of naivete (ie. getting taken in by Rasputin, Nicholas's "give peace a chance" speech at the 1912 New York diplomatic summit) and regrettable but understandable paranoia--Nicholas's grandfather was assassinated by the sister of Lenin, his cousin was murdered by an anarchist at the start of the war, his father and much of the Church filled his head with Antisemitic conspiracy garbage since he could walk--and it's not hard to see how WWI ended in revolution for them but not for the Germans or the English.

So, not necessarily unfit by the low standards of the time, but not very good objectively.




In before Simkins brings up cats.
I don't think St. Nicholas was the "let them eat cake" type. If you look in his personal diary, he felt great sympathy for the massacre of Bloody Sunday. As for antisemitism, I don't deny that the secular government and parts of the church were spreading lies about the Jews, but I think it can be a bit exaggerated.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 10:50:41 PM »
If you look in his personal diary, he felt great sympathy for the massacre of Bloody Sunday.
A massacre he had nothing to do with, let it be said.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 11:03:39 PM »
I don't doubt that he was a caring man who had all the sympathy in the world for the victims of Bloody Sunday, but he still gave at least tacit support to similarly repressive state actions, did he not? And this includes those based on Antisemitic lies (even exaggerated as they may have been).
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Offline WPM

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 03:09:49 PM »
Maybe get schooled and versed in non-Christian academics
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 03:30:33 PM »
Maybe get schooled and versed in non-Christian academics

Jackson already seems to be.
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Offline Samn!

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Offline Alpo

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2018, 04:54:28 PM »
Should this have any religious significance? Saints are humans too. They might not sin but they might make all things silly, moronic etc.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2018, 05:29:44 PM »
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Was St. Nicholas II a poor Ruler?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »
Should this have any religious significance? Saints are humans too. They might not sin but they might make all things silly, moronic etc.

Wouldn't that be considered sinning too, at least by omission or failing to be perfect as your Father in Heaven?

Regardless, I don't see a lot of support for the idea that Saints have to become sinless in this life (Sisoes the Great, St. James the Ascetic, most of the Emperor Saints, the Uncomdemning Monk, etc).
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