Author Topic: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.  (Read 2030 times)

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Offline recent convert

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2018, 01:08:48 AM »
The canonical Orthodox Church has jurisdictions that observe the old and new calendar. What makes this issue a justification for schism?
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2018, 01:51:25 AM »
The canonical Orthodox Church has jurisdictions that observe the old and new calendar. What makes this issue a justification for schism?

I guess if someone thinks the New Calendar is itself sinful, then they wouldn't want to be in communion with it in any way. Though I get the sense that for a lot of Trudox, the Calendar is just a convenient symbol of the entire "laxity" package that they think is everywhere in World Orthodoxy.

I think a lot of them are much more upset about ecumenism, really.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2018, 02:22:27 AM »
I keep getting messages from those apart of the "Genuine Orthodox". Are they a splinter group? Ever since I made this thread I've had some private messaging me urging me to steer clear of "world orthodoxy."
They're a lot of splinter groups.
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2018, 03:08:05 PM »

Another point: It's not that the results of the annulment regulations are the same as divorce; Catholic "annulment" is the same as divorce. "Annulment" is divorce. Let's be clear on that...
I think that we have to take the Catholic Church in her own terms.  Even civil law grants annulments and they are not legally the same as divorce.  She doesn't say that an annulment is a divorce and gladly welcomes couples whose previous marriage was annulled to the Sacrament of Marriage.  If this is some sort of Roman Oikonomia, so be it.

They can play whatever mind games they like among themselves, but when they come on an Orthodox forum and brandish their sophistry as a polemical bludgeon and a mark of their faithfulness, as they do on this thread, then I will always point out that the emperor has no clothes. Yes, I am aware of the logical contortions they employ to argue that their divorces are not divorces; likewise i’ve heard arguments from intelligence officers about how torture is actually “enhanced interrogation techniques”. I treat them both with the same respect.
Not quite sure whether this was targeted at me. Anyway, it's no use, I don't have any delusions about my faithfulness. There is little honor hitting a man already gone down.
Nevertheless, I encourage the person who started this thread to consider what has been said. Apart from all the polemics - and I admit I am responsible for some - there is a real theological difference here that can't be discussed away.
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2018, 04:08:20 PM »
I keep getting messages from those apart of the "Genuine Orthodox". Are they a splinter group? Ever since I made this thread I've had some private messaging me urging me to steer clear of "world orthodoxy."
Don't you think that the very fact that they call themselves "genuine" is a red flag ?


Offline Volnutt

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2018, 04:10:41 PM »
I keep getting messages from those apart of the "Genuine Orthodox". Are they a splinter group? Ever since I made this thread I've had some private messaging me urging me to steer clear of "world orthodoxy."
Don't you think that the very fact that they call themselves "genuine" is a red flag ?

Given that the word "Orthodox" means "Right Believing," not necessarily.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 04:11:00 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2018, 05:59:46 PM »
Divorce & Remarriage in the Latin West: An Addendum
https://shamelessorthodoxy.com/2017/05/09/divorce-remarriage-in-the-latin-west-an-addendum/
Quote
This addendum has turned out to be quite longer than the original post that I made back in September. Yet I think that it is sufficient to show that the tradition of divorce and remarriage in the Latin West was a strong and vibrant one during the first millennium. The Council of Rome (826) most certainly allowed for both divorce and remarriage under the guidance of Pope Eugenius II. Furthermore, the Council of Elvira (c. 300) allowed remarriage for husbands only. Women, however, faced a sexist double standard, which was not uncommon for permissions of remarriage in the Latin West. Equality for divorce and remarriage was much more common in the Greek East. This equality is best demonstrated in the Latin West in the penitential of pseudo-Theodore and the additional canons of the Council of Compiègne (757). I have also provided evidence of two more popes, Innocent I and Leo I (a Church Father), explicitly allowing divorce and remarriage. I have also shown that Saint Caesarius of Arles, another Church Father, oversaw a council that ruled divorce and remarriage to be permissible. To sum up the totality of these past two posts on the Latin West’s tradition: four Church Fathers, three popes, eight councils, and two penitentials all sanctioned divorce and remarriage in a variety of circumstances. Divorce and remarriage in the Latin West was most certainly a part of sacred tradition.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 06:02:35 PM by Anthony1986 »
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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2018, 11:38:31 PM »
This Convert Issues Forum  is approaching a rule violation if it turns into a debate about which Orthodox jurisdiction is "TRUE" or politically correct. Please review the following excerpt about the Convert Issues Forum purpose:

"The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a place on the OC.Net where inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. Many of those posting in this area are ignorant of Orthodox teachings and are using this forum to understand what are the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. Due to the simplicity of many of their requests and responses, direct and simple answers with sources if possible are most helpful.

If the moderators find that the discussions become faith or jurisdiction debates, the topic will be split and sent the appropriate OC.Net forum to continue the discussion or debate. As a poster, You may also ask that a topic be split so that a private discussion can be established to go into detail about the issues that you feel adamant about and wish to debate or discuss. The convert forum is not a place for combative debate or argument." 

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« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 11:40:10 PM by Thomas »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2018, 01:54:47 AM »
Divorce & Remarriage in the Latin West: An Addendum
https://shamelessorthodoxy.com/2017/05/09orce-remarriage-in-the-latin-west-an-addendum/
Quote
This addendum has turned out to be quite longer than the original post that I made back in September. Yet I think that it is sufficient to show that the tradition of divorce and remarriage in the Latin West was a strong and vibrant one during the first millennium. The Council of Rome (826) most certainly allowed for both divorce and remarriage under the guidance of Pope Eugenius II. Furthermore, the Council of Elvira (c. 300) allowed remarriage for husbands only. Women, however, faced a sexist double standard, which was not uncommon for permissions of remarriage in the Latin West. Equality for divorce and remarriage was much more common in the Greek East. This equality is best demonstrated in the Latin West in the penitential of pseudo-Theodore and the additional canons of the Council of Compiègne (757). I have also provided evidence of two more popes, Innocent I and Leo I (a Church Father), explicitly allowing divorce and remarriage. I have also shown that Saint Caesarius of Arles, another Church Father, oversaw a council that ruled divorce and remarriage to be permissible. To sum up the totality of these past two posts on the Latin West’s tradition: four Church Fathers, three popes, eight councils, and two penitentials all sanctioned divorce and remarriage in a variety of circumstances. Divorce and remarriage in the Latin West was most certainly a part of sacred tradition.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2018, 01:36:49 PM »
I keep getting messages from those apart of the "Genuine Orthodox". Are they a splinter group? Ever since I made this thread I've had some private messaging me urging me to steer clear of "world orthodoxy."

If this behavior of theirs is bothering you, consider reporting the messages to the Administrator.

Offline Halik

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Re: Close to converting to Orthodoxy.
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2018, 07:48:12 AM »
Quote
However, I'm getting extremely fed up with the increasing liberalization of the Church.

I completly agree with you! And it seems as if it is getting worse every day ... BUT: Is this really a reason for leaving the church? As somebody said before this alone is absolutly insufficient (for the long run ...well ... understandable yet).

Are there more reasons? Theology? Dogmatics? Spirituality?
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