Author Topic: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion  (Read 621 times)

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Offline Antonis

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Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« on: May 03, 2018, 10:44:51 PM »
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VATICAN CITY — The Vatican declined Thursday to rule on a dispute among German bishops over whether non-Catholic spouses can receive Communion, asking the bishops to work it out among themselves.

The Vatican urged the bishops to try to find a unanimous solution “in the spirit of ecclesial communion” after a German delegation met with top Holy See officials, a Vatican statement said.

Seven German bishops had written the Vatican asking it to rule on a proposal adopted by a two-thirds majority of the German bishops’ conference to allow Protestant spouses of Catholics to receive Communion in certain circumstances. The conference approved the proposal in February in part as a gesture of ecumenical outreach to Protestants in a country where mixed marriages are common.

The seven conservative bishops had argued the proposal undermines the Catholic faith and shouldn’t be decided by a mere national bishops’ conference.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/vatican-declines-to-rule-on-german-dispute-over-communion/2018/05/03/9f20690c-4f05-11e8-85c1-9326c4511033_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.334e489be510
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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 10:58:19 PM »
Quote
VATICAN CITY — The Vatican declined Thursday to rule on a dispute among German bishops over whether non-Catholic spouses can receive Communion, asking the bishops to work it out among themselves.

The Vatican urged the bishops to try to find a unanimous solution “in the spirit of ecclesial communion” after a German delegation met with top Holy See officials, a Vatican statement said.

Seven German bishops had written the Vatican asking it to rule on a proposal adopted by a two-thirds majority of the German bishops’ conference to allow Protestant spouses of Catholics to receive Communion in certain circumstances. The conference approved the proposal in February in part as a gesture of ecumenical outreach to Protestants in a country where mixed marriages are common.

The seven conservative bishops had argued the proposal undermines the Catholic faith and shouldn’t be decided by a mere national bishops’ conference.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/vatican-declines-to-rule-on-german-dispute-over-communion/2018/05/03/9f20690c-4f05-11e8-85c1-9326c4511033_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.334e489be510

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Offline Antonis

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 11:59:24 PM »
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The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the approval of Pope Francis, has written a letter to German bishops rejecting their proposal to allow some Protestant spouses to receive Holy Communion, but the Pope does not wish the letter to be made public, the Register has learned.

Sources in the Vatican and Germany say that Archbishop Luis Ladaria, the current prefect of the CDF, wrote the letter and that it was given papal approval.

“It’s a rejection of the pastoral plan,” said a high level source in the German Church, speaking on condition of anonymity, adding that there are “no differences” between Archbishop Ladaria and his predecessor, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, on the matter.

But two senior sources have also confirmed that the Pope wants the letter to remain secret for reasons unknown.
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/vatican-rejects-german-bishops-intercommunion-proposal#.WuvaRYjwbIV

...and something else.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 11:59:44 PM by Antonis »
"Verily they that seek Thee, Lord, and keep the canons of Thy Holy Church shall never want any good thing.”
St. John the Merciful

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2018, 12:02:18 AM »
Quote
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the approval of Pope Francis, has written a letter to German bishops rejecting their proposal to allow some Protestant spouses to receive Holy Communion, but the Pope does not wish the letter to be made public, the Register has learned.

Sources in the Vatican and Germany say that Archbishop Luis Ladaria, the current prefect of the CDF, wrote the letter and that it was given papal approval.

“It’s a rejection of the pastoral plan,” said a high level source in the German Church, speaking on condition of anonymity, adding that there are “no differences” between Archbishop Ladaria and his predecessor, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, on the matter.

But two senior sources have also confirmed that the Pope wants the letter to remain secret for reasons unknown.
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/vatican-rejects-german-bishops-intercommunion-proposal#.WuvaRYjwbIV

...and something else.

So they didn't rule and then they did... Somebody's got their signals crossed.
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Antonis

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 12:10:09 AM »
Or they did rule and they wanted the public to think they didn't. What a mess. :P
"Verily they that seek Thee, Lord, and keep the canons of Thy Holy Church shall never want any good thing.”
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"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 02:57:28 AM »
If Rome says that a unanimous decision needs to be achieved, this effectively means that nothing will change - which is a relatively good thing.
So in a way, I am relieved.
On another level, this is a conflict between various Bavarian Diocesan bishops with their Metropolitan bishop, Card. Marx, who happens to be my bishop.

I really wish for an end of all this unnecessary confusion. Why does this happen?
I am at a loss.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 02:57:50 AM by Lepanto »
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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 03:46:41 AM »
I really wish for an end of all this unnecessary confusion. Why does this happen?
I am at a loss.

Because people (and families) are broken.
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 04:00:41 AM »
I really wish for an end of all this unnecessary confusion. Why does this happen?
I am at a loss.

Because people (and families) are broken.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. We are all broken to some degree since the fall of man and in a way,
this is the underlying reason for all problems.
But how does this relate to this specific issue?
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Online Volnutt

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 04:14:55 AM »
I really wish for an end of all this unnecessary confusion. Why does this happen?
I am at a loss.

Because people (and families) are broken.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. We are all broken to some degree since the fall of man and in a way,
this is the underlying reason for all problems.
But how does this relate to this specific issue?

The whole, "Can mixed families take Communion together?" thing would really never have come up back when the majority of people married their own religion, right? That's what I meant. It's just the consequence of not having the force of societal shame being on Christianity's side anymore.

Sorry for not being clearer.
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Online Volnutt

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2018, 04:19:04 AM »
Personally, I don't really get it. I can sympathize with those who want to soften the RCC's stand on communion for the divorced and remarried (another problem that would never really have come up back in the days of Christian social pressure, whether for good or for ill). There's a lot of broken families out there and "get divorced or else never take communion again" is a pretty bitter pill even if it is necessary.

But this "ecumenical gesture" thing seems like nothing but fuzzy sentimentality. I can understand why wanting to take communion together as a couple could be nice, but if you have different understandings of what communion is, why would you want to? Maybe I'd have to be married to understand it, I don't know.

I may have been mentally conflating that issue with this one. My apologies.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 04:28:16 AM by Volnutt »
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2018, 04:36:09 AM »
Personally, I don't really get it. I can sympathize with those who want to soften the RCC's stand on communion for the divorced and remarried (another problem that would never really have come up back in the days of Christian social pressure, whether for good or for ill). There's a lot of broken families out there and "get divorced or else never take communion again" is a pretty bitter pill even if it is necessary.

But this "ecumenical gesture" thing seems like nothing but fuzzy sentimentality. I can understand why wanting to take communion together as a couple could be nice, but if you have different understandings of what communion is, why would you want to? Maybe I'd have to be married to understand it, I don't know.

I may have been mentally conflating that issue with this one. My apologies.

No need to apologize so much!
If the Protestant spouse feels so strongly about receiving communion in the Catholic church, why does he/she not convert?
It´s the good old have your cake and eat it. Religion is seen as a kind of module-based system, where I can freely combine the parts that
I want and leave out the modules I do not like. Hubris in essence.

"I like going to Catholic liturgy and I would love to receive, but on the other hand, I still feel connected to my Protestant church."
Or
"I would love to be able to receive together with my husband/wife, but I do not fully agree with Catholic teaching, that is why I will not convert."

It is completely bananas and stupidity makes me angry.
Sorry for ranting.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 04:36:55 AM by Lepanto »
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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2018, 06:20:39 AM »
Right. Or at least the conviction that Catholicism and Protestantism are really the same thing and that they should acknowledge it. I'm not saying I agree with that view, but I can understand it.
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline WPM

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 11:02:30 AM »
No, . . . people in public do not relate to your fancy church post at all.
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Offline recent convert

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 12:58:25 PM »
There are Christian intermarried families in our parish; those who are non Orthodox know the situation. These people have varying life circumstances; I have never seen any of this translating into feeling of exclusion. Granted, I am only observing from a small slice of life. 
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Offline tcolon90

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Re: Vatican declines to rule on German dispute over Communion
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 10:53:43 AM »
In my OCA parish, i was barred from the chalice until my secular marriage was blessed. I had converted (or reverted technically) and my wife was still protestant. What i went through seemed like a simple solution. Paul didnt excommunicate converts who were married to infidels. Now if you are orthodox and then get married to someone who is not, thats a whole nother ball game. But if youre wife loves you and you have children you have a responsibility to your family and theres no reason why you shouldnt commune. Onviously the spouse cant but ive noticed they end up converting anyway. This is one of the reasons why i think annulment is somewhat of a joke. You dont just get to leave your family simply because the marriage isnt a church marriage.
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