Author Topic: I have a request for all the priests  (Read 822 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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I have a request for all the priests
« on: April 27, 2018, 03:32:19 AM »
They may already do so. But I need to know so I can have more confidence in the priests.
If I have a question and you don’t know the answer to it can you please bring the matter up before all the priests. And you together come up an answer and share what they say as well as your opinion ?
This has been a major stumbling block in trusting a priest for advice

Offline Volnutt

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2018, 03:41:10 AM »
They may already do so. But I need to know so I can have more confidence in the priests.
If I have a question and you don’t know the answer to it can you please bring the matter up before all the priests. And you together come up an answer and share what they say as well as your opinion ?
This has been a major stumbling block in trusting a priest for advice

I'm sure if a lot of priests are stumped, they'll ask a friend for his advice (and will ask their bishop and his synod if it's really important). Pretty sure there's no global colloquy or anything like that, though. How could there be?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2018, 06:21:35 AM »
Thanks but I asked a question to two clergy and they seemed not to be aware of all others opinion but their own. Or one seemed a little more aware but not aware of too many others view point

Offline JTLoganville

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2018, 09:46:01 AM »
Be careful not to engage in "priest shopping" in the way that criminal defendants and their attorney's engage in "Judge shopping"--trying to find someone who will simply confirm their own opinion.

Submitting oneself to a (note the singular) spiritual father means trusting the elder, not second guessing.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 03:49:32 PM »
Thanks but I asked a question to two clergy and they seemed not to be aware of all others opinion but their own. Or one seemed a little more aware but not aware of too many others view point

Well, yeah. Priests are only human, some will be more diligent than others.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline WPM

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2018, 04:03:03 PM »
I forgive you.
The Sign and Prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2018, 08:44:45 AM »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2018, 08:47:04 AM »
Be careful not to engage in "priest shopping" in the way that criminal defendants and their attorney's engage in "Judge shopping"--trying to find someone who will simply confirm their own opinion.

Submitting oneself to a (note the singular) spiritual father means trusting the elder, not second guessing.

Thankyou for your concern. I do not do so. I am concerned because I want the hard truth. But I have to know they know what they are talking because they talk to other priests and they tell me what others think. And I choose the hard way anyway.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2018, 08:48:09 AM »
Thanks but I asked a question to two clergy and they seemed not to be aware of all others opinion but their own. Or one seemed a little more aware but not aware of too many others view point

Well, yeah. Priests are only human, some will be more diligent than others.

Thanks. I know. But thats why I have to seek after priests who do this
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 08:48:59 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2018, 09:29:05 AM »
Be careful not to engage in "priest shopping" in the way that criminal defendants and their attorney's engage in "Judge shopping"--trying to find someone who will simply confirm their own opinion.

Submitting oneself to a (note the singular) spiritual father means trusting the elder, not second guessing.

Thankyou for your concern. I do not do so. I am concerned because I want the hard truth. But I have to know they know what they are talking because they talk to other priests and they tell me what others think. And I choose the hard way anyway.

Why do you assume that the hard way is automatically the truth? That can become a source of pride in your own "unflichingness." Remember, Jesus also said that His yoke is easy and his burden light.

Like JT said, I don't think you should be "priest shopping." I guess there's nothing wrong with asking him to do some research and consult, but after that you should trust his judgment if its some kind of question of discipline.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2018, 10:06:49 AM »
Be careful not to engage in "priest shopping" in the way that criminal defendants and their attorney's engage in "Judge shopping"--trying to find someone who will simply confirm their own opinion.

Submitting oneself to a (note the singular) spiritual father means trusting the elder, not second guessing.

Thankyou for your concern. I do not do so. I am concerned because I want the hard truth. But I have to know they know what they are talking because they talk to other priests and they tell me what others think. And I choose the hard way anyway.

Why do you assume that the hard way is automatically the truth? That can become a source of pride in your own "unflichingness." Remember, Jesus also said that His yoke is easy and his burden light.

Like JT said, I don't think you should be "priest shopping." I guess there's nothing wrong with asking him to do some research and consult, but after that you should trust his judgment if its some kind of question of discipline.

Haha. Jesus commanded call no one on earth your teacher. It is a command like do not kill. The bible says obey your parents IN THE LORD. Not just obey them. The bible says do not despise prophesies test all things hold fast what is good. Ofcourse some will attack me because I speak the truth.





« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 10:17:18 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2018, 10:19:50 AM »
I will try to obey a spiritual elder unless it is completely against my conscience. But I guess I don't remember them saying anything against my conscience.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 10:27:06 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2018, 10:28:49 AM »
Let us suppose they would teach us to go against our conscience. Then we can conclude it seems they don't want to ask other priests they want us to trust blindly. Would asking other priests make a difference? yes because we are allowed to follow what we are convinced is of the Lord and not just follow the will of what may be 1 man's. But if we have no other option we will trust them unless the Lord has clearly shown us the truth.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 08:45:12 AM »
Be careful not to engage in "priest shopping" in the way that criminal defendants and their attorney's engage in "Judge shopping"--trying to find someone who will simply confirm their own opinion.

Submitting oneself to a (note the singular) spiritual father means trusting the elder, not second guessing.

That is not true according to Pope Shenouda

This comes from his book discipleship
http://www.stgr.org/share/Pope_Shenouda_Books/English/Discipleship.pdf

Learning from a Spiritual Father.


1. The guide must be secure in his belief, sound in his
directives and guidance, and he should be experienced,
otherwise it will be as the Bible says: " … if the blind leads the
blind, both will fall into a ditch. " (Matt. 15:14). This is the
situation which our Lord criticised in relation to the Scribes and
Pharisees, when He said that they were "blind guides". (Matt.
23:16,24). And when He rebuked them saying: " For you travel
land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you
make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. " (Matt.
23:15).
2. If the father or guide should go astray or deviate from his
correct position, he ought not to be obeyed, nor should his
guidance be accepted. So a person should seek guidance, but
at the same time keep his eyes open, and make sure that his
conscience feels comfortable with the advice that he receives.
64
And the father or guide should not be content just to give
directions, but should try to convince, and reinforce his teaching
by verses from the Bible, or by stories and sayings of the saints.
3. There is nothing wrong with a person asking his teacher
or guide or spiritual father about something. The disciples
of our Lord Jesus Himself used to ask Him questions, and ask
Him to explain things to them. And He, blessed be His holy
name, used to interpret things for them and give them parables
and mention some of the verses of the Scriptures and explain
them (Luke 24:27).
If someone should ever find, though, that the advice given by
his guide is contrary to the word of God, then he should
remember what the Bible says: "We ought to obey God rather
than men." (Acts 5:29).

4. It is not a good idea for the son or daughter to try to be a
copy of his or her spiritual father in everything. For what
suits their father may not suit them at all. And perhaps their
father's circumstances, capabilities, and psychology might be
completely different from theirs. But what they should do is to
take the principles and apply them, as far as they are able to
spiritually, and in accordance with what is appropriate for them
and best suits their character.
65
5. At the same time, the spiritual guide should not try to
cancel out the character of the one who follows him as a
disciple. Nor should the guide make that person follow a
course against his or her will, which can happen if the guide
doesn't take into consideration that person's circumstances,
psychology and inclinations!!
If the spiritual guidance, for example, involves calmness and
solitariness, he shouldn't put pressure on all his pupils to be like
that, for some of them might be sociable in character, and prefer
serving people and being with them, helping them and gaining
benefit from them in doing so.
6. Also, a person can have more than one guide, So that he
can ask them individually for guidance concerning whatever
aspects of life they are particularly experienced in, providing he
does not fall into any contradictions in the advice he is given. If
this or something like this should happen, then he can take it as
an area for questioning, study and finding out more information.
He should also be prepared to confront one view with another,
without embarrassment, and to do so without mentioning any
names.
The saint Anba Antonius the Great used to take lessons from all
the hermits around him, when he was starting out on his
monastic life. He learned humility from one, silence from
another, piety and asceticism from a third, how to pray and
contemplate from a fourth and wisdom from a fifth etc. etc.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:47:30 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 09:54:02 AM »
That's all very good advice, and certainly nobody should ever give ABSOLUTE obedience to anybody in anything (except maybe in a monastic context, but even there abuse occurs).

But I don't think it's an encouragement to the kind of priest shopping that JT warns against.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2018, 03:06:30 AM »
Thanks I suppose you are right. He probably means by not second guessing the priest if he doesn’t conform to your opinion if you are not sure you are following the word of God or not straight away

Offline Volnutt

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Re: I have a request for all the priests
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 03:09:08 AM »
Thanks I suppose you are right. He probably means by not second guessing the priest if he doesn’t conform to your opinion if you are not sure you are following the word of God or not straight away

Makes sense.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.