Author Topic: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?  (Read 844 times)

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Offline Gordon Ramsay

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Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« on: April 25, 2018, 01:49:58 AM »
Not sure where to put this, but it's a pet peeve of mine. I've seen multiple churches call themselves Saint Sophia, and they're referring to Agia Sophia or Holy Wisdom. Why do they call it Saint Sophia?

Offline Arachne

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 03:20:19 AM »
Not sure where to put this, but it's a pet peeve of mine. I've seen multiple churches call themselves Saint Sophia, and they're referring to Agia Sophia or Holy Wisdom. Why do they call it Saint Sophia?

Because St Sophia and Holy Wisdom are essentially the same term in Greek, and in the early times, people whose first language was often not Greek conflated the two. Linguistic smushing happens all the time.
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 10:29:02 AM »
It used to bother me, too, but in a sense it’s also not incorrect. “Saint” is used to mean “holy” as well, such as in the name “Saint Saviour.”
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Offline Luke

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 10:40:59 AM »
In the Wisdom Literature, "sophia" is personified; therefore, I can see how St. Sophia would be used.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 09:28:42 PM »

Sts. Sophia and her daughters, Faith, Hope & Charity
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Offline Gordon Ramsay

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 12:25:27 AM »

Sts. Sophia and her daughters, Faith, Hope & Charity
Right, but when most churches are named that, they are referring to the Holy Wisdom.

I mean I suppose I could see how some get it confused.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2018, 10:26:33 AM »
They could be referring to both, because the wisdom of God is foolishness to carnal men, and the martyrdom of St. Sophia and her daughters represents a sublime expression of this.  The name St. Sophia was blessed with could well have occurred at her baptism, and in the event was certainly Providential, and the names her holy and pious daughters received continue with this, as an example of an Inspired and inspirational piety. 

Several of the early Saints were baptised with names which, while not new, expressed nonetheless particular doctrinal signifigance in Christianity, for example, Sts. Athanasius, Theodore, Christophorus, Theophilus, Pius, and in recent centuries, Abd al Massih, in the Coptic and presumanly other Arabic speaking Churches (the Coptic church uses Coptic as a liturgical language, interwoven with Greek theological phrases such as Kyrie Eleison, and alongside Arabic and other vernacular languages, so that in the US, a typical Coptic liturgy will consist variously of Bohairic Coptic, Arabic and English, printed side by side in the Euchologion).

Consider also the pious custom of naming children Jesus among Christians of the Iberian peninsula and the former colonies thereof, in Latin America and other continents.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2018, 12:45:25 PM »
It used to bother me, too, but in a sense it’s also not incorrect. “Saint” is used to mean “holy” as well, such as in the name “Saint Saviour.”
Romance languages don't even make a difference, generally.
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Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 05:59:42 AM »
Not sure where to put this, but it's a pet peeve of mine. I've seen multiple churches call themselves Saint Sophia, and they're referring to Agia Sophia or Holy Wisdom. Why do they call it Saint Sophia?

Why wouldn't they?

The words mean the same thing, and it's fairly common in English to do that.  For instance, some translations of the Litany of the Saints address the saints as "Saint Michael, Saint David, Saint John" and so forth, while other translations refer to "Holy Michael, Holy David, Holy John", &c.  Everyone knows they're the same people and nobody gets confused.  There are churches dedicated to "St Cross", "St Saviour", and so forth, which are simply another way of saying "Holy Cross" and "Holy Saviour".  So there is long precedent.  I don't see why "St Sophia" would be singled out as being problematic.

What exactly is it that bothers you about it so much?

What annoys me is poor translations such as "Holy Saint John, pray to God for us".  It just sounds ridiculous, as it's the same as saying "Saint Saint John, pray to God for us", or "Holy Holy John, pray to God for us".
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Offline Sethrak

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2018, 12:07:26 PM »
Quote:
Posted by: Subdeacon Michael
« on: Today at 05:59:42 AM » Insert Quote
Why wouldn't they?

The words mean the same thing, and it's fairly common in English to do that.  For instance, some translations of the Litany of the Saints address the saints as "Saint Michael, Saint David, Saint John" and so forth, while other translations refer to "Holy Michael, Holy David, Holy John", &c.  Everyone knows they're the same people and nobody gets confused.  There are churches dedicated to "St Cross", "St Saviour", and so forth, which are simply another way of saying "Holy Cross" and "Holy Saviour".  So there is long precedent.  I don't see why "St Sophia" would be singled out as being problematic.

What exactly is it that bothers you about it so much?

What annoys me is poor translations such as "Holy Saint John, pray to God for us".  It just sounds ridiculous, as it's the same as saying "Saint Saint John, pray to God for us", or "Holy Holy John, pray to God for us".

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Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Why do they call it Saint Sophia?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 03:03:59 PM »
Thank you ~ I was coming to say that ~ I couldn't have said it that well ```

That's incredibly kind of you to say.  :)
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