Author Topic: Death of Pets and Neanterthals  (Read 5653 times)

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Offline 88Devin12

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Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« on: May 27, 2008, 02:19:41 PM »
I was just wondering, I recently had  pet die (who was about 18 years old), and we buried his ashes next to my grandfather, but me and my parents don't believe animals have souls, thus we may not see them again. What is the traditional Orthodox belief on this, or what do you all believe?

Also, I was watching a program on the History Channel about 10,000 B.C. and the co-existance of Cromagnon (modern man) and Neanderthals on the continent of Europe for about 5,000 years. After being showed that the two have the same lineage (but split off at a time), I wondered, if Humans are the only ones with souls, would that have included Neanderthals?



Since this OP asks for answers to two unrelated questions and is really more appropriate as the OPs of two separate threads, I have devoted this thread to replies to the first question regarding whether animals have souls.  The subject regarding Neanderthals, considering the potential for renewed debate on evolutionary theory, has been split off into the parallel thread:  Did Neanderthals Have Souls?  In light of my action, please limit your answers on this thread to the first question above.  Thank you.  -PtA
« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 11:30:46 PM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 02:23:08 PM »
I was just wondering, I recently had  pet die (who was about 18 years old), and we buried his ashes next to my grandfather, but me and my parents don't believe animals have souls, thus we may not see them again. What is the traditional Orthodox belief on this, or what do you all believe?

The Orthodox do not believe in cremation.  Orthodox believe that pets are part of creation and give glory to God.  Otherwise, Orthodox do not have any special consideration for animals.

Also, I was watching a program on the History Channel about 10,000 B.C. and the co-existance of Cromagnon (modern man) and Neanderthals on the continent of Europe for about 5,000 years. After being showed that the two have the same lineage (but split off at a time), I wondered, if Humans are the only ones with souls, would that have included Neanderthals?

I don't know.   :)  Perhaps both had souls at one point.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2008, 05:03:24 PM »
I know about cremation, but that is what the vet does after the pets die, unless you ask for their body instead, and we waited until memorial day to bury him so it wouldn't have been a good thing for our house if we had his body here, especially 8-9 days after he had passed.

Also, I know cremation isn't really an ok thing to do, but both of my uncles were cremated and I buried one of my Uncle's ashes in a plot we had purchased with the rest of our family. Even if you are cremated, will you still receive a body in the end?

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 05:52:21 PM »
I was just wondering, I recently had  pet die (who was about 18 years old), and we buried his ashes next to my grandfather, but me and my parents don't believe animals have souls, thus we may not see them again. What is the traditional Orthodox belief on this, or what do you all believe?

Also, I was watching a program on the History Channel about 10,000 B.C. and the co-existance of Cromagnon (modern man) and Neanderthals on the continent of Europe for about 5,000 years. After being showed that the two have the same lineage (but split off at a time), I wondered, if Humans are the only ones with souls, would that have included Neanderthals?

To me, both of these questions are difficult. Church Fathers most definitely teach that only humans were created in the image and liking of God. But from the point of view of biology as we know it today, there is no clear line separating the "last" animal from the "first" human. The biological evolution simply does not work that way, it is inconspicuous, slow, takes millions of years and has (as a rule) very numerous intermediate forms. Who can say, were the Neanderthals "still apes" or "already humans?" The thing is, all these labels, tags that we attach to the forms of life are so arbitrary. In older microbiology textbooks the genus Rickettsia is classified as viruses - and now we know that Rickettsia are actually bacteria. And just who was the Archeopterix - a reptile with wings, or a bird with scales and teeth? Who is Platypus? Who are we? :)
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 07:38:56 PM »
ALso, in regards to my pet, I was made aware by my parents that in our state at least, it's illegal to bury a pet's body because of contamination issues, therefore the law requires all animals to be cremated, therefore, if you want the ashes back to bury/spread, you pay 200$ to have it done, otherwise they dispose of the ashes or burn the animal with many other animals in the area that have died.

I'm not Orthodox yet, and will hopefully will become catechumen in a few months, but the rest of my family are not Orthodox. However I still believe many of them definitely may have a place in heaven, and I still pray for their souls whenever I can.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 08:18:12 AM »
I'm not Orthodox yet, and will hopefully will become catechumen in a few months, but the rest of my family are not Orthodox. However I still believe many of them definitely may have a place in heaven, and I still pray for their souls whenever I can.

I think this is great and VERY Orthodox. Not being any kind of authority in Orthodoxy, I nevertheless feel that we should pray for the whole world, including, of course, our beloved pets. Whether they have souls, or what sort of souls, is a very secondary issue, IMHO.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 01:50:49 PM »
I just buried my Dog lily in the yard....Good thing it rained yesterday ,the ground was easy to dig....In God's Vast
Kingdom truly he has a place for all life .............SmileyCentral.com" border="0Slava Bogu....SmileyCentral.com" border="0Christ Has Risen,,Rejoice
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Simayan

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 04:46:54 PM »
If we pray for the souls of animals, and they don't exist, what harm has it done? IMO, pray now, and ask questions later when we finally know.
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death, nor mourning nor crying nor suffering, for the old order of things has passed away."

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 06:39:07 PM »
If we pray for the souls of animals, and they don't exist, what harm has it done? IMO, pray now, and ask questions later when we finally know.
I couldn't imagine a Heaven without cats.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 06:39:26 PM by ozgeorge »
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2008, 06:46:23 PM »
Stashko, I'm sorry to hear about Lily. I'm sure you'll miss her very much. May God comfort you.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2008, 07:16:41 PM »
I couldn't imagine a Heaven without cats.

I agree. I'm hoping to meet some old friends.
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 07:19:30 PM »
I just buried my Dog lily in the yard....Good thing it rained yesterday ,the ground was easy to dig....In God's Vast
Kingdom truly he has a place for all life .............SmileyCentral.com" border="0Slava Bogu....SmileyCentral.com" border="0Christ Has Risen,,Rejoice

God be with you in your grief. It's hard to say goodbye to these special friends who love us so unconditionally.
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Death of Pets and Neanterthals
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 10:51:14 PM »
Tangent on cremation, organ donation, and embalming split off to this thread:  Cremation, Organ Donation, Embalming, and Other Post Mortem Practices
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