Author Topic: Who is the one who knows God?  (Read 813 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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Who is the one who knows God?
« on: April 17, 2018, 07:25:58 AM »
To know God is to read His word and know what He wants. He will want obedience and then to go from fear which is slavery to love only when you keep the commandments easily when you have finally developed a relationship while in your sin reverently and increased in His knowledge, truth and love
In the communion God makes His sacrifice present personally to us.. because without knowing His love we can not abide in Him.

To say I can talk to God without reverence as the sinner that I am may be characteristic of those who do not know God. So He will say I never knew you.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 07:29:06 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 08:05:55 AM »
Faith without works is dead right?

Those who believe in the church believe in christ. Those who do not believe in the church do not believe in Christ so how will they do works?  But not only those who believe in the church believe in Christ for some may have never been called to the church and so their faith is in Christ and will hopefully work. Faith is not a one time thing but it must be made alive so that it works.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 08:07:08 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 03:27:16 PM »
Just like faith is a process, knowledge of God is a process. And I don't think it has an exact "start" point.

Someone outside of Orthodoxy might already be drawn by the grace of God and be able to relate to Him in some dimly understood, imperfect way, and this will hopefully "culminate" in them finding the Church and knowing God in a fuller sense. He came to save all and pours His grace out upon everyone to differing degrees.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2018, 08:29:33 PM »
Just like faith is a process, knowledge of God is a process. And I don't think it has an exact "start" point.

Someone outside of Orthodoxy might already be drawn by the grace of God and be able to relate to Him in some dimly understood, imperfect way, and this will hopefully "culminate" in them finding the Church and knowing God in a fuller sense. He came to save all and pours His grace out upon everyone to differing degrees.

Thanks :) I agree

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2018, 01:41:25 AM »
Mike, did you delete me from Facebook?
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 07:42:58 AM »
No I have sent you a PM

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 02:23:35 PM »
To know God is to read His word and know what He wants. He will want obedience and then to go from fear which is slavery to love only when you keep the commandments easily when you have finally developed a relationship while in your sin reverently and increased in His knowledge, truth and love
In the communion God makes His sacrifice present personally to us.. because without knowing His love we can not abide in Him.

To say I can talk to God without reverence as the sinner that I am may be characteristic of those who do not know God. So He will say I never knew you.

You can talk to God freely about all your feelings and be angry but your purpose is to be converted from such a state. You should not be so comfortable in your relationship that you think you don't need to repent.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 02:25:25 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2018, 02:30:24 PM »
To know God is to read His word and know what He wants. He will want obedience and then to go from fear which is slavery to love only when you keep the commandments easily when you have finally developed a relationship while in your sin reverently and increased in His knowledge, truth and love
In the communion God makes His sacrifice present personally to us.. because without knowing His love we can not abide in Him.

To say I can talk to God without reverence as the sinner that I am may be characteristic of those who do not know God. So He will say I never knew you.


You can talk to God freely about all your feelings and be angry but your purpose is to be converted from such a state. You should not be so comfortable in your relationship that you think you don't need to repent.

Quote from: Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Quote from: 2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

I think the ideal is that repentance comes, not from fear, but from sadness at having hurt our loving Father.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 02:35:15 PM »
To know God is to read His word and know what He wants. He will want obedience and then to go from fear which is slavery to love only when you keep the commandments easily when you have finally developed a relationship while in your sin reverently and increased in His knowledge, truth and love
In the communion God makes His sacrifice present personally to us.. because without knowing His love we can not abide in Him.

To say I can talk to God without reverence as the sinner that I am may be characteristic of those who do not know God. So He will say I never knew you.


You can talk to God freely about all your feelings and be angry but your purpose is to be converted from such a state. You should not be so comfortable in your relationship that you think you don't need to repent.

Quote from: Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Quote from: 2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

I think the ideal is that repentance comes, not from fear, but from sadness at having hurt our loving Father.

Yes that is the ideal and I do not know if works are necessary to earn salvation but to please God whether you have more reward or not I do not know and I don't know if they are necessary or not to earn salvation but you should do good just in case and hope God to teach you the truth and learn to find the truth. But I believe sinning wilfully is different from often falling into sin because you do not care that you did a sin and have no desire to be strong though you give into sin. But I believe you have to rise from sin as the bible says the righteous falls seven times and gets up again so I think it is necessary to have salvation atleast if such things stop one from coming to knowledge of truth if you have sinned much. Jesus said if your hand causes you to sin cut it off which I believe he means the things that drive your hand to sin. So we must walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh. The things that drive the hand foot and eye to sin could be different. The hand could refer to wanting to get a taste of sin which can be done by masturbation. The eye refers to wanting to having knowledge of what sin is and see it. The foot may refer to being lazy to escape what can lead to such things.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 02:46:42 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2018, 02:49:48 PM »
So I think it is necessary to have salvation atleast if such things stop one from coming to knowledge of truth if you have sinned much.

I think this may be wrong and I wanted to edit it out. Works do not prevent you from being called by God and having knowledge of truth but I guess it may stop you from pursuing it. Perhaps works do not stop you from being disqualified from salvation and being unforgivable and knowledge of Jesus but they may stop having the knowledge of truth that leads to being free from sin. Everyone has opportunity to know Jesus not just the righteous though there is not one. Even still if one has sinned he is not cut off from knowledge of truth and forgiveness if he asks and truly wants forgiveness but he may die without going to Jesus and in his sin if he is sinning wilfully without caring. But those who sin wilfully and ask forgiveness if they are lucky to have opportunity will have it but God does not completely forget such sins by which I means they are warned to sin more. But sinning unwilfully is different and maybe sins are completely forgotten.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:00:55 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 03:03:35 PM »
To know God is to read His word and know what He wants. He will want obedience and then to go from fear which is slavery to love only when you keep the commandments easily when you have finally developed a relationship while in your sin reverently and increased in His knowledge, truth and love
In the communion God makes His sacrifice present personally to us.. because without knowing His love we can not abide in Him.

To say I can talk to God without reverence as the sinner that I am may be characteristic of those who do not know God. So He will say I never knew you.


You can talk to God freely about all your feelings and be angry but your purpose is to be converted from such a state. You should not be so comfortable in your relationship that you think you don't need to repent.

Quote from: Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Quote from: 2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

I think the ideal is that repentance comes, not from fear, but from sadness at having hurt our loving Father.

Yes that is the ideal and I do not know if works are necessary to earn salvation but to please God whether you have more reward or not I do not know and I don't know if they are necessary or not to earn salvation but you should do good just in case and hope God to teach you the truth and learn to find the truth. But I believe sinning wilfully is different from often falling into sin because you do not care that you did a sin and have no desire to be strong though you give into sin. But I believe you have to rise from sin as the bible says the righteous falls seven times and gets up again so I think it is necessary to have salvation atleast if such things stop one from coming to knowledge of truth if you have sinned much. Jesus said if your hand causes you to sin cut it off which I believe he means the things that drive your hand to sin. So we must walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh. The things that drive the hand foot and eye to sin could be different. The hand could refer to wanting to get a taste of sin which can be done by masturbation. The eye refers to wanting to having knowledge of what sin is and see it. The foot may refer to being lazy to escape what can lead to such things.

So I think it is necessary to have salvation atleast if such things stop one from coming to knowledge of truth if you have sinned much.

I think this may be wrong and I wanted to edit it out. Works do not prevent you from being called by God and having knowledge of truth but I guess it may stop you from pursuing it. Perhaps works do not stop you from being disqualified from salvation and being unforgivable and knowledge of Jesus but they may stop having the knowledge of truth that leads to being free from sin. Everyone has opportunity to know Jesus not just the righteous though there is not one. Even still if one has sinned he is not cut off from knowledge of truth and forgiveness if he asks and truly wants forgiveness but he may die without going to Jesus and in his sin if he is sinning wilfully without caring.

I think the only ones who are truly on their way to Hell right now are the ones who feel absolutely no compunction over their sins, whether it comes from fear or from love. Only the living struggle in the water.

It is important to be willing to do whatever it takes to get away from temptation though (cutting off hands and plucking out eyes), yes.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 03:05:06 PM »
To know God is to read His word and know what He wants. He will want obedience and then to go from fear which is slavery to love only when you keep the commandments easily when you have finally developed a relationship while in your sin reverently and increased in His knowledge, truth and love
In the communion God makes His sacrifice present personally to us.. because without knowing His love we can not abide in Him.

To say I can talk to God without reverence as the sinner that I am may be characteristic of those who do not know God. So He will say I never knew you.


You can talk to God freely about all your feelings and be angry but your purpose is to be converted from such a state. You should not be so comfortable in your relationship that you think you don't need to repent.

Quote from: Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Quote from: 2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

I think the ideal is that repentance comes, not from fear, but from sadness at having hurt our loving Father.

Yes that is the ideal and I do not know if works are necessary to earn salvation but to please God whether you have more reward or not I do not know and I don't know if they are necessary or not to earn salvation but you should do good just in case and hope God to teach you the truth and learn to find the truth. But I believe sinning wilfully is different from often falling into sin because you do not care that you did a sin and have no desire to be strong though you give into sin. But I believe you have to rise from sin as the bible says the righteous falls seven times and gets up again so I think it is necessary to have salvation atleast if such things stop one from coming to knowledge of truth if you have sinned much. Jesus said if your hand causes you to sin cut it off which I believe he means the things that drive your hand to sin. So we must walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh. The things that drive the hand foot and eye to sin could be different. The hand could refer to wanting to get a taste of sin which can be done by masturbation. The eye refers to wanting to having knowledge of what sin is and see it. The foot may refer to being lazy to escape what can lead to such things.

So I think it is necessary to have salvation atleast if such things stop one from coming to knowledge of truth if you have sinned much.

I think this may be wrong and I wanted to edit it out. Works do not prevent you from being called by God and having knowledge of truth but I guess it may stop you from pursuing it. Perhaps works do not stop you from being disqualified from salvation and being unforgivable and knowledge of Jesus but they may stop having the knowledge of truth that leads to being free from sin. Everyone has opportunity to know Jesus not just the righteous though there is not one. Even still if one has sinned he is not cut off from knowledge of truth and forgiveness if he asks and truly wants forgiveness but he may die without going to Jesus and in his sin if he is sinning wilfully without caring.

I think the only ones who are truly on their way to Hell right now are the ones who feel absolutely no compunction over their sins, whether it comes from fear or from love. Only the living struggle in the water.

It is important to be willing to do whatever it takes to get away from temptation though (cutting off hands and plucking out eyes), yes.

Thanks I think you are right but I fear for myself because there are some sins I am not struggling with but I feel resolved to do and don't want to be told to stop. Though I do not know for sure but I am convicted. I prefer to hope in what I want though I think I may have been told by others or God it is wrong. But I am not sure. I hope I have not been shown clearly enough but I don't know if that is an excuse.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:09:53 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 03:23:47 PM »
Actually I believe Jesus taught you have to overcome. God is patient enough to those who sin non wilfully but they must still overcome.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:28:50 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 03:26:30 PM »
I know how you feel about not wanting to be told. I guess we both have to work on "wanting to want" lol.
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 03:29:49 PM »
I know how you feel about not wanting to be told. I guess we both have to work on "wanting to want" lol.

Thanks I will keep you in my weak prayers :) God bless you
I think all prayers are weak if they are not supported by godly teaching atleast by someone else.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:30:54 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2018, 03:30:29 PM »
I know how you feel about not wanting to be told. I guess we both have to work on "wanting to want" lol.

Thanks I will keep you in my weak prayers :) God bless you

Same here. God bless you, too :)
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2018, 03:31:22 PM »
I know how you feel about not wanting to be told. I guess we both have to work on "wanting to want" lol.

Thanks I will keep you in my weak prayers :) God bless you

Same here. God bless you, too :)

Thankyou :)

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2018, 04:49:16 PM »
I like this message in a daily devotional I read today but is he suggesting one can keep his sins? then I reject it. As I said even those who struggle with sin I believe eventually have to overcome and be given robe of righteousness by Him if their repentance is acceptable by giving them a pure heart if they have come to  despise their sin enough for God to give them a pure heart and robe of righteousness and freedom from sin because of His mercy and not works. But they have to be worthy of that by struggling through their life. Even though they never struggled enough to be pure. God can give them purity if they did some struggle throughout their life which may still be difficult though not a great struggle to actually gain a crown of purity but God gives them a pure heart. Thats what I believe but I am still attracted to this message because I feel like we can never know how to ensure we and our loved ones escape hell but I do not think it is correct to teach it unless I believe it which I plan to seek to see if I can believe it.

I like the message because I don't like to think multitudes can not know how to be surely able to escape hell. Some people may feel convinced they are not able to escape hell or stop others in their family from coming to christ because it seems harsh.

Even my dad said we should focus on God love in preaching and not attacking people for their sins. But focus on God's power to change them

The message is:

The wideness of mercy

Read John 3:17

17 “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. (NRSV)


To hear some church people, it seems that God’s plan is to consign certain people to hell. His overarching strategy is to ensure sinners get their just deserts. There is just a speck of truth in this. Those who reject God’s mercy expressed through Jesus cannot live forever with him: they have made their choice. And it is true that sin has to be punished as long as we remember Jesus copped that punishment for us and if we accept him we are not punished.
But we are not dealing with a vengeful deity who is licking his lips at the thought of punishing those who displease him. We are dealing with the God revealed in Jesus who came, as our text reminds us, to show mercy rather than condemn. Indeed those who refuse his mercy will find themselves condemned. But not because God wants it or even plans it.

His great plan is salvation, rescue, blessing. All that other stuff we bring on ourselves. The message our world so badly needs to hear is that there is hope for all who are lost, there is an invitation to live Jesus’ way for those who formerly despised it. The message we need to shout from the rooftops is not the badness of the human condition (though that is a terrible reality) but the goodness of God.

A very old hymn spoke of there being a wideness in God’s mercy. May we never give the impression that this mercy is grudgingly rationed out or only for those whose way of life accords with what we deem to be respectable. It is not cheap mercy, but it is ever so wide.

Blessings
David Reay
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 04:51:07 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2018, 05:55:19 PM »
I don't see it as him saying that you can keep your sins. He's just saying that God is more interesting in helping you press on than in condemning you for where you are. Not even Paul was willing to say that he was already perfect (Philippians 3:12).
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 05:58:53 PM »
Jesus said not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. And many will say they did wonderful things but they were workers of iniquity

And Jesus said enter by the narrow gate which is difficult

It seems many focus on good works but not knowing Jesus that He loves them
Others are workers of iniquity in that His love does not transform them
I wish it was only those who sin willfully who are Christian but I think it is also those who do not take up their cross. The wise always seek to ensure they have enough oil and the bridegroom comes when the foolish are sleeping not only bodily but their soul
God is fully gracious and it is His pleasure to give us the kingdom
Therefore the foolish lose it because they sin wilfully and are not wishing to please the Lord

But we must still strive to do all the works which may be neversssry for us. But it will be easy with God’s grace. So we can’t think we earned His love. But finding that grace can be indeed very difficult.

Those who are called early they are expected to work longer.

The wise seek oil because they are worried they will run out because they don’t know if they will die un
not because they think God is not gracious

They know others may have excuse for their sin and God may be forgiving and can have mercy on whom He wants but they have no excuse for they were given more
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:09:46 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 05:59:32 PM »
I don't see it as him saying that you can keep your sins. He's just saying that God is more interesting in helping you press on than in condemning you for where you are. Not even Paul was willing to say that he was already perfect (Philippians 3:12).

I see I think he could mean that. I think that seems true.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:00:53 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 06:11:37 PM »
The wise we’re so careful because they know they are very sinful or think they are. They may think themselves more sinful than all and they don’t know if they will have any oil to meet the Lord.
Yet Jesus also told the parable of the eleventh hour to show you we don’t know how much mercy God will have. He can also choose not to be fair by our measure or seem not fair because He can do what He wants. The rest have to fear. Or that is not true if it is unjust and He simply He may just choose to be more merciful to all. That is true regardless of the fact we may all or many are just as sinful
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 06:23:44 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 01:33:39 AM »
I decided to stay away from the forum only for certain topics

Romans 6  (NKJV)
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What I want to emphasize from above is Romans 6:23 which says For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Obeying the gospel truly should lead to righteousness and salvation and the gospel therefore is the gift of salvation for whoever truly obeys it gets salvation. It seems though you need to know the gospel well so continue to hear it and have it rooted in the heart so it produces the fruit of holiness

« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:43:11 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Who is the one who knows God?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 01:54:41 AM »
Or it seems to be saying if you are truly obeying the gospel you will be already a slave of righteousness and have some holiness but if you turn from the gospel you will be back in sin.
So the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. However the proof of really accepting the gospel is having enduring fruit. The gospel must be rooted in the heart.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:57:23 AM by mikeforjesus »