Author Topic: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)  (Read 1048 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GreenP3pper

  • EO Catechumen
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Most holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the Midwest
Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« on: March 13, 2018, 12:16:54 PM »
Hello, brothers and sisters in Christ!

I've browsed these forums for about two years, but never really posted. As such, it's nice to meet you all, and I hope to make some solid contributions to the community.

I have a question, as the title implies, concerning the necessity of godparents for Chrismation and/or baptism. I have been a catechumen for roughly a year, and my priest recently told me that he believes I am ready to enter the Church. For this, I am incredibly grateful and excited!

However, one thing was brought to my attention: I will need a sponsor for my Chrismation (I have already been baptized in the name of the Trinity, so I am being received via Chrismation). I always knew that I would need one, but had never thought about the "why" of it until my parents (I'm only seventeen, and they're very Protestant, so they're a tad skeptical of Orthodoxy) asked me why I would need a sponsor.

So, here I am, asking you all for your help on this! I have no problem with having a godparent; he should be a great source of spiritual wisdom! I am merely having difficulty understanding why one is required to have one when entering the Church. Might someone be able to explain why it is absolutely necessary?

Thank you, and God bless,

-GreenP3pper
Been an Orthodox at heart and attending Divine Liturgy since February 2016, officially converting as of April 2017. Gonna be Chrismated, likely by Holy Week, as of March 2018.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2018, 12:49:33 PM »
I must ask, why do you ask if it is absolutely necessary? Surely you are not planning an emergency baptism? The sponsor is Christian Tradition. St. Paul refers to it, the Didache discusses it, and from ancient times Christians brought new believers under their wings in this way. Think of it as a spiritual apprenticeship.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline GreenP3pper

  • EO Catechumen
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Most holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the Midwest
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2018, 04:55:06 PM »
I don't ask if it is absolutely necessary; I know that it is. As I said, I am asking for the sake of my Protestant parents, for they don't understand why it is necessary.
Been an Orthodox at heart and attending Divine Liturgy since February 2016, officially converting as of April 2017. Gonna be Chrismated, likely by Holy Week, as of March 2018.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 04:55:35 PM »
In emergency baptism godparents are not required.
I respond with a question. Why do you enter apprentince at beginning and not in a senior position. Because you need to learn. Church appoints two people that will become your spiritual relatives as first points of contact that you can ask what you think  you don't know.

But in the end we received the rite of Baptism from God so you need 2 godparents in the baptism because the process of baptism from God says so.
Perfect God made perfect Church Eastern orthodox Church in around year 33. He put in his Church his rites the way he liked and said his Church will never fail.
1500 years after that a revolution ensured and wining party started to choose and pick from the rites in the Church what they liked and were thinking is necessary leaving out and modifying important parts of the rites. THis is my understanding.

So we do it the way we do it because it comes from God. Other denominations have change because people and man changed that that came from God. This is my understanding.
Because we trust God more than man, we go with what we received from God.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 05:06:06 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 05:22:14 PM »
So in my understanding one answer would be this.

God came in year 33 and made his Church. He put in his Church, The perfect Church EAstern Orthodox Church all the rites necessary the way they should be done. Bible says that Church will never fail.

After 1500 years some people believed not that some people made errors but believed wrongfully that Church had failed that is against the Bible. They made a revolt and succeded. Then they started picking and choosing from rites established from God what they want to add in the new Church.

For example they kept baptism saying we do it the way it is in the Bibkle not the way it was in the Church from God. So in the Bible there is no step by step baptism so what they were left was imagination. So the differences between Eastern orthodox rites and other denomination rites comes from the thing that Eastern orthodox rites comes from God and other denominations rites come from imagination with parts that are the same kept from original Church.

So in Eastern orthodox Church maybe 100% from God.
Other denomination maybe 45% from God 55% from imagination.

So the true question is why other denominations have not godparents since the instructions from God to his original Church has godparents?
Bible is of no help since it HAS NOT step by step baptism.

Now there are parts in baptism that we don't exactly know. We know that through baptism we become sons of God and the gates of Heaven are open to us. How exactly we become Sons of God what happens we don't know. We call it a mystery and leave it like that. So if it is an unseen role from god parents I don't have a clue.

In the end, Godparents are treated like parents and like blood relatives. There can not be marriages between godsons and godparents and not with childrn of godparents also.

So you can find good godparents like good in orthodox faith., with good life, good people and that can help you toward your salvation.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 05:29:58 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline dcommini

  • Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,230
  • Beannachd Dia dhuit
    • Life of an Orthodox Soldier
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 05:24:54 PM »
I don't ask if it is absolutely necessary; I know that it is. As I said, I am asking for the sake of my Protestant parents, for they don't understand why it is necessary.

The sponsor is supposed to help teach you the faith, pray for you, encourage you to keep in the race, etc. They are usually those in the parish who have been Orthodox for a while and are spiritually grounded, meaning that they can help keep you spiritually grounded as well.
OblSB

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 05:32:05 PM »
Good question.
And of course godparents should be good with prayer as prayer is the most important.
They can pray for your salvation, good career path, good family life and others.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 05:36:53 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline Ainnir

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,349
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 05:34:25 PM »
Welcome!   ;D

First, there's a Scriptural precedent in the epistles in 1 Corinthians, 1 Timothy, and 1 John (at the very least).  Plus there are many pictures of mentoring in the Old and New Testaments (Moses/Joshua, Elijah/Elisha, Naomi/Ruth, Christ/the Twelve).  So at the very least, we know it's not wrong!  :D  As far as a requirement goes, as Porter said, it's Tradition.  I believe Saint Justin Martyr's writings at least allude to this practice/situation as early as the second century (I'm open for correction on that, though).  I (now) think it's both beneficial and pragmatic, done well.  I like Porter's apprenticeship metaphor.  For all those reasons, and possibly more, the Church requires a sponsor.  But in my experience, this doesn't satisfy skeptics because the fundamental view of authority is completely different.  There's really no resolution for that, as that's a view we can't argue people into or out of, and certainly not at the expense of a relationship.  You may have to accept your parents' unease as their prerogative and charitably pray they find peace about it.  I know that is far easier said than done, though.   :-\

Honestly, for a while the whole idea sort of freaked me out as a mom of three, and I'm the one that dragged us into this in the first place!  I was worried how it would affect my family dynamics and even my Sunday logistics.  Time has helped, but I'm also in the parish and see how this plays out in reality--an advantage your parents don't have.  fwiw.  :)
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Tzimis

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,359
  • If you die before you die, then you will not die
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 06:17:00 PM »
    This may seem a little weird to you at first. When your baptized the church becomes your mother. She is giving birth to your new spiritual nature. In essence you are abandoning your parents for the church. Your also shedding your nature which is linked to your parents.  That new you requires a new parent for spirtual guidance. Usually its one person who has some spiritual knowledge. Some people choose within there family if they are also orthodox. Choose wisely because a continued relationship can be very useful for you in the future. Even to your offspring.
Orthodox link the verse Matthew 23:9 to our baptism.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,223
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 06:19:07 PM »
Another useful comparison might be to sponsors in AA. It's another accountability partner who can give you practical advice on the spiritual path.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 08:17:51 PM »
Did we scare you good enough or you still want to continue.
Anyhow remember what God does is for your prosperity and well being. If God put god parent is for your prosperity and well being. If your parents trust God this should not be an issue.
There was a story a children story of a man with a flaut taking children from a city and leading them to death or maybe astray. Many religions and denominations may be like that. If you don't want to follow the man with the flaut and value your life and your eternal life then come to Eastern Orthodox Church where immortality is.

The music of the religious leader whomever he is and whatever his title is may be nice to hear and can lead you to a place without blood and flesh of Jesus that is without eternal life that is to death.

Meanwhile in Eastern Orthodox Church you get flesh and blood of Jesus you get eternal life.

My parents follow the man with the flaut. So what, you follow God.
My grandparents and uncles follow the man with the flaut leading to death that is a religion or denomination with symbols without flesh and blood of Jesus. So what, be smart follow God. Neither parents or grandparents and nobody human beside Jesus can save you when second death come knocking on the doors. Flesh and blood of Jesus can.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 08:27:52 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,210
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 08:21:43 PM »
I was lucky enough to find a nice woman in the parish. I hope you find someone to help you as well.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 08:45:00 PM »
Proof Eastern Orthodox Church is giving blood and flesh of Jesus that is immortality that is you escape the man with the flaut or violin leading to no life in you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbcL4mkNfzM&t=303s

Jesus to you that is God to you:
John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

That is go to Eastern Orthodox Church the perfect Church established by God in around year 33 not by people making revolts in Church 1500 years later.

Here is the undoubitable truth Showing Eastern Orthodox Church the true Church established By God that will not fail. There are many Churches claiming that that can not produce similar document because the claim is FALSE:

James the Just is the first leader of the Church in Bible in Acts of Apostles. THis is where this document of true Church starts:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarch_of_Jerusalem  Yes it was not Apostle Peter.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Orthodox_Patriarch_of_Jerusalem
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 08:58:57 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,210
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 08:55:55 PM »
Flaut or violin?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 09:00:15 PM »
You know the story. It is so popular. You tell me. In Romanian is flaut. I don't know the English term for flaut.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 09:02:33 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,210
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 09:02:01 PM »
I don't know the story at all.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 09:08:20 PM »
You know the story. It is so popular. You tell me. In Romanian is flaut. I don't know the English term for flaut.

The word in English is flute. And you're telling the story we call the Pied Piper of Hamelin, since that's what our poet Browning titled his version.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2018, 09:13:18 PM »
Yes.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin
In story the musician leads the children no one knows where. In real life the musician that leads the people to a religion without flesh and blood of Jesus leads them to no life that may be to death to second death.
OH the musician sings and speaks so nice. So what. Do you want to die?
Oh he speaks from Gpd.; So what , do you want to die?
He speaks so nice and is so clean. So what do you want to die?
Oh my parents listen to him and had great respect. So what , do you want to die.
My grandparents the same. So what, do you want to die?
No. Go to the Church God says is the true Church when asked. Do you trust God? What are you doing to another Church than the Church God redeems the best? What are you doing outside Eastern Orthodox Church?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 09:20:30 PM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 06:02:12 AM »
The above are opinions based on John 6:53-54 that in my understanding say no blood and flesh of Jesus no life
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline GreenP3pper

  • EO Catechumen
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Most holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox Catechumen
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the Midwest
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 12:17:04 PM »
To everyone that has posted, I greatly appreciate your help. Thank you for taking the time to respond! :)
Been an Orthodox at heart and attending Divine Liturgy since February 2016, officially converting as of April 2017. Gonna be Chrismated, likely by Holy Week, as of March 2018.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Offline pasadi97

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,110
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Concerning the Necessity of Godparents (Sponsors)
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 11:01:34 AM »
To everyone that has posted, I greatly appreciate your help. Thank you for taking the time to respond! :)

How are things going? What do your parents say about orthodoxy?
Speaking to them may not be enough. praying for them to be saved and to understand orthodoxy may be what it is needed.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 11:02:50 AM by pasadi97 »
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.