Author Topic: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin  (Read 571 times)

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« on: February 02, 2018, 03:50:47 PM »
How are these two ideas between the Orthodox and the Catholic Church distinguishable and similar?
It seems that the main difference is the inheritance of non-personal guilt, but what does this exactly mean from a Catholic and Orthodox perspective?

I think it's important to quote some canons from Trent (from the Fifth Session)

"1. If any one does not confess that the first man, Adam, when he had transgressed the commandment of God in Paradise, immediately lost the holiness and justice wherein he had been constituted; and that he incurred, through the offence of that prevarication, the wrath and indignation of God, and consequently death, with which God had previously threatened him, and, together with death, captivity under his power who thenceforth had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil, and that the entire Adam, through that offence of prevarication, was changed, in body and soul, for the worse; let him be anathema.

2. If any one asserts, that the prevarication of Adam injured himself alone, and not his posterity; and that the holiness and justice, received of God, which he lost, he lost for himself alone, and not for us also; or that he, being defiled by the sin of disobedience, has only transfused death, and pains of the body, into the whole human race, but not sin also, which is the death of the soul; let him be anathema:--whereas he contradicts the apostle who says; By one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

3. If any one asserts, that this sin of Adam,--which in its origin is one, and being transfused into all by propagation, not by imitation, is in each one as his own, --is taken away either by the powers of human nature, or by any other remedy than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath reconciled us to God in his own blood, made unto us justice, santification, and redemption; or if he denies that the said merit of Jesus Christ is applied, both to adults and to infants, by the sacrament of baptism rightly administered in the form of the church; let him be anathema: For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be [Page 23] saved. Whence that voice; Behold the lamb of God behold him who taketh away the sins of the world; and that other; As many as have been baptized, have put on Christ.

4. If any one denies, that infants, newly born from their mothers' wombs, even though they be sprung from baptized parents, are to be baptized; or says that they are baptized indeed for the remission of sins, but that they derive nothing of original sin from Adam, which has need of being expiated by the laver of regeneration for the obtaining life everlasting,--whence it follows as a consequence, that in them the form of baptism, for the remission of sins, is understood to be not true, but false, --let him be anathema. For that which the apostle has said, By one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men in whom all have sinned, is not to be understood otherwise than as the Catholic Church spread everywhere hath always understood it. For, by reason of this rule of faith, from a tradition of the apostles, even infants, who could not as yet commit any sin of themselves, are for this cause truly baptized for the remission of sins, that in them that may be cleansed away by regeneration, which they have contracted by generation. For, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

5. If any one denies, that, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is conferred in baptism, the guilt of original sin is remitted; or even asserts that the whole of that which has the true and proper nature of sin is not taken away; but says that it is only rased, or not imputed; let him be anathema. For, in those who are born again, there is nothing that God hates; because, There is no condemnation to those who are truly buried together with Christ by baptism into death; who walk not according to the flesh, but, putting off the old man, and putting on the new who is created according to God, are made inno-[Page 24]cent, immaculate, pure, harmless, and beloved of God, heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ; so that there is nothing whatever to retard their entrance into heaven. But this holy synod confesses and is sensible, that in the baptized there remains concupiscence, or an incentive (to sin); which, whereas it is left for our exercise, cannot injure those who consent not, but resist manfully by the grace of Jesus Christ; yea, he who shall have striven lawfully shall be crowned. This concupiscence, which the apostle sometimes calls sin, the holy Synod declares that the Catholic Church has never understood it to be called sin, as being truly and properly sin in those born again, but because it is of sin, and inclines to sin."
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 03:55:09 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2018, 04:38:59 PM »
If you do an easy search you can find some relevant parsing of the Latin terms being translated as "guilt" here. It doesn't seem that the Catholic position is substantively different from ours.
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Offline Wandile

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2018, 05:32:07 PM »
If you do an easy search you can find some relevant parsing of the Latin terms being translated as "guilt" here. It doesn't seem that the Catholic position is substantively different from ours.

This.

In essence the “guilt” passed on is the lack of sanctifying grace in every human being which gets imparted through baptism. It’s not a personal guilt.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 05:33:14 PM by Wandile »
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2018, 06:00:01 PM »
If you do an easy search you can find some relevant parsing of the Latin terms being translated as "guilt" here. It doesn't seem that the Catholic position is substantively different from ours.

I think a lot of polemicists confuse the Protestant position as the Catholic one. An easy mistake when one is tempted to lump the whole of "the West" together. I can't speak of every dogmatic statement the RCC or her theologians have made through history, but the current catechism published under JPII would make your average Calvinist fart with rage:

Quote
404How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2018, 07:18:47 AM »
Some canons from the ancient Church pertaining to original sin, the death of the soul or privation of sanctifying grace in which children are born, and holy baptism which remits it.

Council of Orange, Canon 2 (529 A.D) "If anyone asserts that Adam's sin affected him alone and not his descendants also, or at least if he declares that it is only the death of the body which is the punishment for sin, and not also that sin, which is the death of the soul, passed through one man to the whole human race, he does injustice to God and contradicts the Apostle"

"Council of Carthage, Canon 2 (418 A.D) Likewise it seemed good that whosoever denies that infants newly from their mother’s wombs should be baptized, or says that baptism is for remission of sins, but that they derive from Adam no original sin, which needs to be removed by the laver of regeneration, from whence the conclusion follows, that in them the form of baptism for the remission of sins, is to be understood as falseand not true, let him be anathema. For no otherwise can be understood what the Apostle says, “By one man sin is come into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed upon all men in that all have sinned,” than the Catholic Church everywhere diffused has always understood it.
Locution, Aug 18, 2014: "They will realize that I have released an ocean of graces which have changed their darkness into light. They will realize that they have been freed from the past century of diabolical control. They will also know that this great gift has come through the consecration of Russia made by the Holy Father in communion with all the bishops in the world. http://locutions-forever.org/locutions/show/2014-08-18/1-the-overcoming-of-separation

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2018, 09:43:27 AM »
"Council of Carthage, Canon 2 (418 A.D) Likewise it seemed good that whosoever denies that infants newly from their mother’s wombs should be baptized, or says that baptism is for remission of sins, but that they derive from Adam no original sin, which needs to be removed by the laver of regeneration, from whence the conclusion follows, that in them the form of baptism for the remission of sins, is to be understood as falseand not true, let him be anathema. For no otherwise can be understood what the Apostle says, “By one man sin is come into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed upon all men in that all have sinned,” than the Catholic Church everywhere diffused has always understood it.
This sin however is the lack of grace, in other words children are born without guilt of their own, in Adam we are all naturally born without grace, nevertheless newborns are completely innocent, they did nothing wrong. See - Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20.


Offline Xavier

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2018, 12:06:58 PM »
Please read the post of Agabus above. Original sin is (1) a deprivation of original holiness justice; (2) does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. This part especially "we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice"

What Adam and Eve lost by disobedience, the New Adam and Eve regained by obedience. One obeyed the fallen Angel, the Other heeded the holy Angel. One stretched oht his hand to a tree, the Other stretched forth His hand on the Tree of the Cross to redeem us.
Locution, Aug 18, 2014: "They will realize that I have released an ocean of graces which have changed their darkness into light. They will realize that they have been freed from the past century of diabolical control. They will also know that this great gift has come through the consecration of Russia made by the Holy Father in communion with all the bishops in the world. http://locutions-forever.org/locutions/show/2014-08-18/1-the-overcoming-of-separation

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2018, 08:49:21 PM »
If you do an easy search you can find some relevant parsing of the Latin terms being translated as "guilt" here. It doesn't seem that the Catholic position is substantively different from ours.
Nope, culpa is very much guilt.  But that's Trent.  The trendy VII, on the other hand, used terms like wound, etc, because the Catholic Church has always taught what she teaches. ::)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 08:49:59 PM by Sharbel »
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Original Sin vs. Ancestral Sin
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 09:23:30 PM »
If you do an easy search you can find some relevant parsing of the Latin terms being translated as "guilt" here. It doesn't seem that the Catholic position is substantively different from ours.
Nope, culpa is very much guilt.  But that's Trent.  The trendy VII, on the other hand, used terms like wound, etc, because the Catholic Church has always taught what she teaches. ::)
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