Author Topic: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts  (Read 2194 times)

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Offline Lepanto

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2018, 03:20:04 AM »
To me, this sounds as though you were actually mainly running  away from something rather than seeking truth. I do understand your trouble with the Novus Ordo, though I think you are going much too far. Just remember: Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia. Running to a bishop in schism will not solve your confusion. Probably we are living in challenging times. Anyway, jumping ship for no good reason at all is not the right thing to do. We are required to stay true. Apostasy can not be the answer.

So when the Orthodox "update" their liturgy and start letting women hand out the holy eucharist and when the Patriarch of Constantinople starts saying who am I too judge on homosexual marrigaes and doing joint worship with hindus in pagan temples, lets see how long you stay loyal. ANyways I am loyal to Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven, not to a bishop who teaches heresey(Pope Francis)
What you are saying is you are loyal to Jesus Christ (nothing wrong with that), but you don't care about any particular bishop/church with apostolic succession. You are making a separation between the See of Peter and the one holy Catholic and apostolic church. That is not the way it works. This sounds a bit like Protestantism in its essence: The notion that you can go wherever you want (you add as long as there are valid sacraments and "real" priests) and it doesn't matter.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2018, 03:58:54 AM »
Does this practise really exist? Monty Python would be proud. I want to join the RCC just to get this certificate.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2018, 06:09:18 AM »
It would be great if, along with the certificate, they issued you a hell passport.
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2018, 01:23:22 PM »
Will doing this get the local diocese to stop sending me their monthly magazine and get me off the mailing list for the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest?  :P

No earthly power can remove you from that mailing list.
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2018, 01:29:56 PM »
So God saying Eastern Orthodox Church is true Church is not a good reason? Really?

If apostasy is not the answer why you don't come to Eastern Orthodox Church.

If we are required to stay true what are you doing?
See, I was talking to Constantin the Great as we are both Catholics. And he will remain a Catholic, no matter how many papers he is going to sign. So from my perspective, leaving Rome (even if Sede) for Constantinople is apostasy. No insult intended.

Im catholic in the sense that I am part of the ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apsotolic Church which includes all rites with valid sacraments all over the world. Unfortunetly, the Roman Catholic Church has switched to the Novus Ordo Rite from the old Latin rite. The Novus Ordo Rite is not even valid and does not have valid sacraments. And yes, in Spain, leaving the church is called Apostatar which translate into Apostosizing. So I am litterlly Aspostosizing LOL. But its okay. Im happy to be one of the smart and lucky catholics that realized what was going on in the Vatican and left, finding the Orthodox Church waiting for me with open arms

Even though we take the liturgy seriously, it is not the liturgy itself that makes a church a true church.

What makes a true Church is by having a valid priesthood, because without a valid priesthood, there is no sacraments, there is no sacrafice, and there is no temple nor church. The liturgy is just one of the 7 holy sacraments

The liturgy is a gift that we have received, but it is not a sacrament in the same sense that the seven (if you want to number them, which Orthodoxy is sometimes loathe to do) Mysteries are.

Agabus, the liturgy is just the prayer-ritual that manifest the eucharist into the real presence of jesus christ

We agree, then, though I don't like the language of "just."

But if all the different liturgies in the world that are valid -- in your opinion -- can exist, what makes the NO invalid and everything associated with it fake? As far as I know, all the major rites have been subject to change and redaction through the years.

I'm just trying to back into your thinking here.
who is "we" ? Werent you an anti-chalcedonian ?

Offline Agabus

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2018, 03:21:30 PM »
So God saying Eastern Orthodox Church is true Church is not a good reason? Really?

If apostasy is not the answer why you don't come to Eastern Orthodox Church.

If we are required to stay true what are you doing?
See, I was talking to Constantin the Great as we are both Catholics. And he will remain a Catholic, no matter how many papers he is going to sign. So from my perspective, leaving Rome (even if Sede) for Constantinople is apostasy. No insult intended.

Im catholic in the sense that I am part of the ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apsotolic Church which includes all rites with valid sacraments all over the world. Unfortunetly, the Roman Catholic Church has switched to the Novus Ordo Rite from the old Latin rite. The Novus Ordo Rite is not even valid and does not have valid sacraments. And yes, in Spain, leaving the church is called Apostatar which translate into Apostosizing. So I am litterlly Aspostosizing LOL. But its okay. Im happy to be one of the smart and lucky catholics that realized what was going on in the Vatican and left, finding the Orthodox Church waiting for me with open arms

Even though we take the liturgy seriously, it is not the liturgy itself that makes a church a true church.

What makes a true Church is by having a valid priesthood, because without a valid priesthood, there is no sacraments, there is no sacrafice, and there is no temple nor church. The liturgy is just one of the 7 holy sacraments

The liturgy is a gift that we have received, but it is not a sacrament in the same sense that the seven (if you want to number them, which Orthodoxy is sometimes loathe to do) Mysteries are.

Agabus, the liturgy is just the prayer-ritual that manifest the eucharist into the real presence of jesus christ

We agree, then, though I don't like the language of "just."

But if all the different liturgies in the world that are valid -- in your opinion -- can exist, what makes the NO invalid and everything associated with it fake? As far as I know, all the major rites have been subject to change and redaction through the years.

I'm just trying to back into your thinking here.
who is "we" ? Werent you an anti-chalcedonian ?

Ummmmmmmmm....Nope. You must be thinking of someone else. As far as I recall, I don't know that I've ever been involved in the Chalcedon wars here or anywhere else. My Church says "pro-", so I do, too.
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2018, 03:41:42 PM »
Ummmmmmmmm....Nope. You must be thinking of someone else. As far as I recall, I don't know that I've ever been involved in the Chalcedon wars here or anywhere else. My Church says "pro-", so I do, too.
My mistake then, i apologize to you!

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2018, 09:22:23 PM »
Yeah, I have always understood that communing in an Orthodox church was a form of self excommunication for Rome (and vice versa).
Catholics are allowed to receive the sacraments from an Orthodox priest.  A Russian Orthodox told me that they can receive the sacraments from a Catholic priest.  In both cases, only under special circumstances, whose gravity depends on which Church one is from, apparently.

Are you expecting... the Spanish inquisition?
Nah, nobody expects the Spanish Inquis...


Also when you enter Orthodoxy I recommend going to ROCOR and churches that rebaptize.
The same Russian Orthodox told me that they don't baptize Catholic converts, unlike the Greeks.  A Greek Orthodox told me that they don't baptize Catholic converts, unlike the Russians.  :o

So from my perspective, leaving Rome (even if Sede) for Constantinople is apostasy.
Nope, schism, if leaving Rome by swimming the Bosphorus.

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Offline Paul

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2018, 12:30:18 PM »
From what I understand, Rome recently got rid of the act of formal defection.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2018, 12:56:31 PM »
From what little I understand. It seems that the RCC considers itself a State as well as a religion. I wouldn't be against signing the papers per-say. But, From an orthodoxy POV it legitimizes there existence. Now this is a little problematic in itself. Being that you are coming from that tradition and you are leaving a state sponsored religion. I'd guess its just a formality.

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2018, 05:43:00 PM »
From what I understand, Rome recently got rid of the act of formal defection.

Yes it was abolished in 2009. Wikipedia
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and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

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Offline ConstantinusMagnus

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2018, 11:46:30 PM »
Not in Spain. I will get the document soon and will post it on this site for all to see in the 2018.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:47:27 PM by ConstantinusMagnus »

Offline ConstantinusMagnus

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2018, 11:56:06 PM »
From what little I understand. It seems that the RCC considers itself a State as well as a religion. I wouldn't be against signing the papers per-say. But, From an orthodoxy POV it legitimizes there existence. Now this is a little problematic in itself. Being that you are coming from that tradition and you are leaving a state sponsored religion. I'd guess its just a formality.

Its a legal formality that "Officially" removes me from the "Books" of the Roman Catholic Church. It alters my baptisim certificate in my baptismal parishes saying that I am no longer under the Roman Pontifex Maximus. Rome can no longer claim me legally(Remember that the west is very legalistic). I will now be exclusively under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Constaintinople, thank you very much! Until you do it, your legally under a double citzenship type of deal with Rome and Constaintople, you will be legally obligated to follow both churches feast days, rules, fast etc etc..... That is until you offically resign from one of them.

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2018, 03:41:48 PM »
Its a bad document that needs not be completed. I see that document as a possible trap. A church that loves people HAS NO REASON to put people to sign that document. Wise men want it to screw you up not knowingly probably. To put it blunt this document MAY help the devil in afterlife he can come and say look you renounced all christianity. Isn't your signature saying you renounce faith you entered through baptism? Through baptism you entered Christianity. It was a trap and you fell into it. So you renounced Christianity. You're mine. Wise men don't understand what you do comes back to you.:
"I renounce to the faith I entered to baptism" is not right. Through baptism you enter into Christianity and this signature may mean your renounced all christianity.

Why it does not say I renounce the errors of catholicism?

You need not sign that document. You renounce not christianity but the errors of Catholicism . When you enter Eastern orthodox CHurch hopefully through baptism you renounce errors of catholicism and you are orthodox.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 03:55:45 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2018, 04:02:26 PM »
EasterN Orthodox Church is true Church. If would be necessary the formal act of renounciation, Eastern orthodox Church will request it from you. If it does not request it,probably it is not necessary.

Best is tyo pray to God to help you resolve this problem in a n easy way, succesfull without any harm or bad being done if it is good in the eyes of God.

If you signed that paper get it back THE ORIGINAL, tear it to pieces and probably this is it.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 04:11:12 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2018, 04:36:00 PM »
Not in Spain. I will get the document soon and will post it on this site for all to see in the 2018.

It cannot be a canonical requirement, as the Pope abolished it, though it might be a legal requirement in Spain for reasons of taxation or something. Unless it has real-world legal effect, I don't see any reason you must complete the document, but I also don't see any great harm in doing it.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2018, 07:10:35 PM »
Its a bad document that needs not be completed. I see that document as a possible trap. A church that loves people HAS NO REASON to put people to sign that document. Wise men want it to screw you up not knowingly probably. To put it blunt this document MAY help the devil in afterlife he can come and say look you renounced all christianity. Isn't your signature saying you renounce faith you entered through baptism? Through baptism you entered Christianity. It was a trap and you fell into it. So you renounced Christianity. You're mine. Wise men don't understand what you do comes back to you.:
"I renounce to the faith I entered to baptism" is not right. Through baptism you enter into Christianity and this signature may mean your renounced all christianity.

Why it does not say I renounce the errors of catholicism?

You need not sign that document. You renounce not christianity but the errors of Catholicism . When you enter Eastern orthodox CHurch hopefully through baptism you renounce errors of catholicism and you are orthodox.

You think the devil can technicality-rules-lawyer somebody into Hell? :o

You have far too little faith in the grace of God. God looks at the intents of the heart and God is more powerful than Satan.
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Offline ConstantinusMagnus

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Re: Formal act of defection from the Roman Vatican Church for Orthodox converts
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2018, 07:55:57 PM »
Its a bad document that needs not be completed. I see that document as a possible trap. A church that loves people HAS NO REASON to put people to sign that document. Wise men want it to screw you up not knowingly probably. To put it blunt this document MAY help the devil in afterlife he can come and say look you renounced all christianity. Isn't your signature saying you renounce faith you entered through baptism? Through baptism you entered Christianity. It was a trap and you fell into it. So you renounced Christianity. You're mine. Wise men don't understand what you do comes back to you.:
"I renounce to the faith I entered to baptism" is not right. Through baptism you enter into Christianity and this signature may mean your renounced all christianity.

Why it does not say I renounce the errors of catholicism?

You need not sign that document. You renounce not christianity but the errors of Catholicism . When you enter Eastern orthodox CHurch hopefully through baptism you renounce errors of catholicism and you are orthodox.

You think the devil can technicality-rules-lawyer somebody into Hell? :o

You have far too little faith in the grace of God. God looks at the intents of the heart and God is more powerful than Satan.

Hahahaha, thats funny right there. The devils going to technicality-rules-lawyer somebody into Hell. :D   Anyways I got that example from the internet. I am not leaving the Catholic Church for atheistic reasons so my paper will be differernt. But I just want that paper saying im gone from Rome so I can have all skin in the game with the Church of Constaintople. Not feel compelled to go back to the Roman Catholic Church byzantine rite or SSPX or something like that.  Im down with Constaintople and I want the papers to prove it! Thats my intention.