Poll

Should Pipe Organs be permitted in Antiochian and Greek Orthodox Churches?

Yes, they should be permitted - they only act as support to the voices and can be beautiful when minimalized.
5 (20.8%)
No, they shouldn't be permitted - the Church Fathers clearly condemned "artificial" sounds and voices.
13 (54.2%)
Other
6 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Author Topic: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches  (Read 617 times)

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« on: January 15, 2018, 08:28:18 PM »
Yay or nay?
Why or Why Not?
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2018, 09:10:50 PM »
We have one in my parish.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2018, 09:24:11 PM »
Despite having an Allen electronic "I can't believe it's not a pipe organ!" organ in my parish, I voted "other".

Very long story short, some Greek chant (probably Antiochian as well) cannot really be played correctly on a normal organ -- it would need notes between the notes it has. St. Anthony's has a page with technical details and a suggested workaround here.

I think they fit better in Russian polyphony -- exactly where they are not welcome  :police:

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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2018, 09:42:45 PM »
We have an old electronic organ from the 1970s. I have never heard it played in liturgy. It was only utilized for s couple weddings and a Christmas pageant since I have attended our parish since 2004. I would vote no but I do not agree with the reason given. From what I know organs originated in Constantinople although in what capacity I do not know. .
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2018, 10:15:59 PM »
Nay, because I've yet to hear an organ arrangement of the DL that doesn't sound like a cat falling across the keyboard.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2018, 10:42:46 PM »
I just like a cappella.   :D
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 07:48:22 AM »
I'm strongly for a cappella chants (Gregorian, Byzantine, Eastern Slavic etc.) as I see human voice as the best instrument granted by God, however I understand that in some areas it may be difficult for people to live (I mean: have services) without organs. So I voted "others". And I mean espeically some WRO parishes (that Antiochian Patriarchate does have) plus some missions (Greek parishes in Korea, Guatemala). Maybe it wodun't be forever, but for some "transitional" years (decade?).
And yeah, I'm aware of the fact that some Grek islands do ues organs, as they've been under Latin influence. Well, better this than to leave Orthodoxy.

And I must add that I just don't understnad electronic keyboards in some Syriac and Malankara churches.
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Offline CarolS

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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 11:39:58 AM »
The melodies/chants of the church are an aid to transmit words. Human voices can do that.  Organs cannot.
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 11:44:51 AM »
From what I know organs originated in Constantinople although in what capacity I do not know. .

For secular events and ceremonies. They were played during horseraces at the hippodrome ("Take me out to the horse race"?). The Emperor Theophilus would entertain- or terrify- ambassadors by have a booming organ played while mechanical birds sang and lions roared around his throne.
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 12:11:11 PM »
But if the organ could talk? Where's Peter Frampton when you need him.

The melodies/chants of the church are an aid to transmit words. Human voices can do that.  Organs cannot.

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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 07:41:33 PM »
From what I know organs originated in Constantinople although in what capacity I do not know. .

For secular events and ceremonies. They were played during horseraces at the hippodrome ("Take me out to the horse race"?). The Emperor Theophilus would entertain- or terrify- ambassadors by have a booming organ played while mechanical birds sang and lions roared around his throne.


Interesting, thanks.
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2018, 11:14:26 PM »
I voted other simply because I did not like the explanation of the no option.  Our church uses Byzantine chant for much of its services and the organ is simply incompatible wit that despite what many Greeks may say.  It simply doesn't work. Chant has always been a capella and so it should remain.
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 04:13:53 AM »
I voted other simply because I did not like the explanation of the no option.  Our church uses Byzantine chant for much of its services and the organ is simply incompatible wit that despite what many Greeks may say.  It simply doesn't work. Chant has always been a capella and so it should remain.


+1

Around here no one one in their right mind would even think of using instruments during services. It's a Lutheran thing to do.
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Re: Pipe Organs in Antiochian / Greek Orthodox Churches
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 07:33:40 AM »
...From what I know organs originated in Constantinople although in what capacity I do not know. .
The Byzantine Ὕδραυλις (Hydraulis), and Πολύαυλις (Polyaulis), based on the invention of Ctesibius the Alexandrian.


The Byzantines used it only for secular events or Ἄσματα Θυμελικά (Thymelic songs i.e. secular songs) and court ceremonies & rituals.
Constantine V Copronymus donated a pipe-organ to the king of the Franks, Pepin the short.
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