Author Topic: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions  (Read 1494 times)

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Offline Sharbel

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German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« on: January 14, 2018, 07:08:58 PM »
Quote
“I’m concerned with fundamental questions of how we deal with each other; although ‘marriage for all’ differs clearly from the church’s concept of marriage, it’s now a political reality,” said Bishop Franz-Josef Bode of Osnabruck.
https://is.gd/bUupEh
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Offline Antonis

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 07:46:33 PM »
Quote
German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
:police:
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2018, 12:43:45 AM »
Quote
“I’m concerned with fundamental questions of how we deal with each other; although ‘marriage for all’ differs clearly from the church’s concept of marriage, it’s now a political reality,” said Bishop Franz-Josef Bode of Osnabruck.
https://is.gd/bUupEh

Hardly the first time a German Catholic bishop deviates from catholic doctrine.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2018, 02:24:34 AM »
"The world does it, so the Church should as well, since the Church is worldly."

That's how cultural Catholicism feels like, instead of Catholic culture.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 02:24:59 AM by RaphaCam »
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2018, 03:08:22 AM »
As secular culture becomes more accepting of same-sex unions, the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church is going to have to respond in some way on the scale between blessing such couples or excommunicating them. At the moment the Church seems just to be turning a blind eye to them. But it will become harder and harder for everyone to pretend that no one sees the elephant in the room as it grows bigger and bigger. So maybe the bishop is doing everyone a service by bringing up the topic.

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2018, 03:54:00 AM »
As secular culture becomes more accepting of same-sex unions, the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church is going to have to respond in some way on the scale between blessing such couples or excommunicating them. At the moment the Church seems just to be turning a blind eye to them. But it will become harder and harder for everyone to pretend that no one sees the elephant in the room as it grows bigger and bigger.

+1

Turning a blind eye might be a Finnish phenomenon though. Assumingly EOs are stricter elsewhere. To the other extreme end in Russia for example.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2018, 09:35:56 PM »
Would you bless people who left the Church and got married outside the Church?

Why should there be a greater standard for homosexual people - a case in which it is never moral?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 09:36:12 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 09:53:33 PM »
Would you bless people who left the Church and got married outside the Church?
Honestly, I don't think the analogy works...
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 10:32:39 PM »
Would you bless people who left the Church and got married outside the Church?
Honestly, I don't think the analogy works...

How so?

If you are getting married in a homosexual manner, you are obviously getting married outside the Church.
If you want to be blessed by the Orthodox Church, obviously you are returning to the Orthodox Church in some manner.
I'm done.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2018, 10:37:00 PM »
Marriages outside the Orthodox Church between a man and a woman may be simply "natural marriages", and may be properly blessed without "remarriage" if the couple enters the Orthodox Church, depending on the tradition.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 10:37:13 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 02:32:59 AM »
Marriages outside the Orthodox Church between a man and a woman may be simply "natural marriages", and may be properly blessed without "remarriage" if the couple enters the Orthodox Church, depending on the tradition.

That may be true, but I don't see how it could be used as a precedent for blessing same-sex couples who have been married in a civil ceremony unless the Church softens its teaching that homosexual acts are always sinful or instructs the couple that they are not to enjoy each other physically although all other aspects of their relationship are under blessing.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 02:34:09 AM by FinnJames »

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 03:04:34 AM »
Marriages outside the Orthodox Church between a man and a woman may be simply "natural marriages", and may be properly blessed without "remarriage" if the couple enters the Orthodox Church, depending on the tradition.
That may be true, but I don't see how it could be used as a precedent for blessing same-sex couples who have been married in a civil ceremony unless the Church softens its teaching that homosexual acts are always sinful or instructs the couple that they are not to enjoy each other physically although all other aspects of their relationship are under blessing.
It couldn't, that's why I thought it wasn't a good analogy.
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 01:23:41 PM »
Same sex marriage is nothing new.  Even the emperor Nero married other men twice; once as the groom, once as the bride.  Thus, the Church should continue doing what she's always done since then: denied the sin, encouraged repentance, offered mercy and affirmed marriage between one man and one woman.  The world and its ways pass, but the Church remains.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 01:24:44 PM by Sharbel »
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Offline Lepanto

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 06:25:01 PM »
As a German Catholic, I am embarrassed to hear this from one of our bishops.
If homosexual couples are interested in a blessing by the church, they need to understand that homosexual practices are still considered a sin. It´s not as if the church was a (spiritual) service provider for everyone asking (and maybe paying) for services. I can only speculate about Bishop Bode´s motives, but in any case I do not think it was wise to say what he said.
Sigh. I guess it will become worse, we have not quite hit the bottom...
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Offline tcolon90

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 12:52:51 PM »
As a German Catholic, I am embarrassed to hear this from one of our bishops.
If homosexual couples are interested in a blessing by the church, they need to understand that homosexual practices are still considered a sin. It´s not as if the church was a (spiritual) service provider for everyone asking (and maybe paying) for services. I can only speculate about Bishop Bode´s motives, but in any case I do not think it was wise to say what he said.
Sigh. I guess it will become worse, we have not quite hit the bottom...

We have similar problems here dude. Several years ago we had cases of OCA bishops doing unspeakable things to each other. As of now we lack the sort of widespread acceptance of it but for how long I can't say.

The priest ar my church is a Greek Catholic* convert. He said when he left about half the RC clergy in his area were either gay or at least approving of it, which is one reason he left. He said the good clergy couldnt  do anything about it because they would have no priests to serve mass if they decided to excommunicate, and that no good men wanted to be ordained because of the seminaries being flooded with homosexuals. The RC is in a difficult spot.


*Dear tcolon90, some terms to describe Eastern Catholics are not allowed, please see the forum rules.
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 01:14:22 PM by Dominika »
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 02:58:51 PM »
As a German Catholic, I am embarrassed to hear this from one of our bishops.
If homosexual couples are interested in a blessing by the church, they need to understand that homosexual practices are still considered a sin. It´s not as if the church was a (spiritual) service provider for everyone asking (and maybe paying) for services. I can only speculate about Bishop Bode´s motives, but in any case I do not think it was wise to say what he said.
Sigh. I guess it will become worse, we have not quite hit the bottom...

We have similar problems here dude. Several years ago we had cases of OCA bishops doing unspeakable things to each other. As of now we lack the sort of widespread acceptance of it but for how long I can't say.

The priest ar my church is a Greek Catholic convert. He said when he left about half the RC clergy in his area were either gay or at least approving of it, which is one reason he left. He said the good clergy couldnt  do anything about it because they would have no priests to serve mass if they decided to excommunicate, and that no good men wanted to be ordained because of the seminaries being flooded with homosexuals. The RC is in a difficult spot.

Maybe people who are genuinely concerned about homosexual priests should refuse to take communion from them. Just complaining on the internet isn't going to have much of an effect other than to virtue signal.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 01:14:38 PM by Dominika »

Offline Alpha60

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2018, 08:17:59 AM »
As secular culture becomes more accepting of same-sex unions, the Catholic (and Orthodox) Church is going to have to respond in some way on the scale between blessing such couples or excommunicating them. At the moment the Church seems just to be turning a blind eye to them. But it will become harder and harder for everyone to pretend that no one sees the elephant in the room as it grows bigger and bigger.

+1

Turning a blind eye might be a Finnish phenomenon though. Assumingly EOs are stricter elsewhere. To the other extreme end in Russia for example.

Or in America for that matter, outside of a handful of people in the OCA and perhaps one or two other places, who are not in the mainstream by any means.
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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2018, 12:24:18 PM »
According to this article the OCA had a mission parish in Long Beach, CA in the 1970's with about a dozen gay members and 70 souls altogether. A new priest was assigned to the parish and, under the bishop's instruction, promptly excommunicated the gay parishioners. The entire parish collapsed soon after. I imagine some will justify the collapse as just the implosion of a congregation that was hopelessly corrupted to begin with.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:24:31 PM by Iconodule »
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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2018, 01:13:39 PM »
Same sex marriage is nothing new.  Even the emperor Nero married other men twice; once as the groom, once as the bride.  Thus, the Church should continue doing what she's always done since then: denied the sin, encouraged repentance, offered mercy and affirmed marriage between one man and one woman.  The world and its ways pass, but the Church remains.

I think you're thinking of Hadrian.
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Offline tcolon90

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Re: German [catholic] bishop suggests blessing same-sex unions
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2018, 12:49:25 AM »
According to this article the OCA had a mission parish in Long Beach, CA in the 1970's with about a dozen gay members and 70 souls altogether. A new priest was assigned to the parish and, under the bishop's instruction, promptly excommunicated the gay parishioners. The entire parish collapsed soon after. I imagine some will justify the collapse as just the implosion of a congregation that was hopelessly corrupted to begin with.

Seems to me that maybe the nongay parishioners might have rebeled as a response to the excommunications but i could be dead wrong. In ither words your last point is probably correct.
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