Author Topic: The Last Jedi  (Read 2414 times)

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Offline mcarmichael

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The Last Jedi
« on: January 03, 2018, 01:09:02 AM »
How to do spoilers?

First, anyone who reads this, if you didn't see the new Star Wars, read this at your own peril.
Second, go to see the new Star Wars movie before you reply.
Three, another warning to see the new Star Wars movie before you expose yourself unnecessarily to knowledge more naturally acquired otherwise.
As in purchasing tickets, or waiting for the DVD.
Or, alternatively, avoiding this topic altogether, together with the new Star Wars movie. Or, do something in-between, which involves seeing the new Star Wars. It's up to you. In this thing, I keep my own council. Any of these things are okay.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 01:50:20 AM by mcarmichael »
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2018, 03:30:58 AM »
I liked it a lot. Also, I liked seeing it on New Year's Day, 2018. That almost didn't happen, but then it did happen. Also, I saw it in 3D. I'm vision-impaired, and I didn't get a headache. It's maybe because I like the Star Wars so much.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2018, 10:42:01 AM »
I think the greatest mystery of this whole movie is - in the beginning - how were the rebels able to drop bombs in outer space?

I thought it was okay, but I still think Episode 3 is a way better movie; there are ultimately three things that bothered me throughout this whole movie.

1. Besides Ray and her sisterly interactions with Kylo Ren, NONE of the new characters are REMOTELY interesting. All of them are bland with no interesting character development or motivations, and Rose's character was absolutely not interesting at all. Kylo Ren as well is not interesting; he goes from this weak, whining conflicted character who won't shoot his mother to "ha ha, I'm actually the devil!" in like 30 seconds.
2. Logical errors and contradictions that don't make sense in the context of the original trilogy. For example, NOBODY in the HISTORY of Star Wars has ever thought to use a kamikaze light speed attack? Also, if you can just use the force to survive outer-space, how did the Emperor die in Episode 6?
3. The entire casino segment of the film was an absolute waste and not interesting, not to mention the poorly developed political pandering. Don't just casually throw in "the gun industry are the REAL villains in this whole conflict" and introduce nothing else about this concept to make such an idea remotely interesting. We haven't seen how evil those "billionaires" are to justify the way they are treated by the "heroes" of the movie.

Episode 7 was way better imho.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2018, 11:22:59 AM »
I liked this episode so much, even more than the Force Awakening. Lots of happenings and surprises.
Kylo Ren shows that devil character is not always powerful or unhesitant. And it shows that the evil is powered by revenge.
Snoke's death can be perceived as something stupid, but I think that it may be result of his pride. And this of course would be contradicting the Jedis' meditaions and humility, Yoda's teaching that a mistake is the best teacher.

However, for me the last scene (with a boy lookin in the sky) was unnecessary.
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Offline William T

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2018, 01:04:27 PM »
I took a bunch of kids to see it at the Imax.   They all liked it a lot.   I probably missed 15 min of the movie taking kids out of the theater for bathroom breaks.

Some of those scenes were pretty thrilling and spectacular to look at,  like the fleet getting blown up,  the throne room,  and the climactic last battle.  I didn't like the first movie, and I didn't think much of the main protagonist and antagonist in it.  In this movie however that changed.   I liked the relationship between Luke,  the girl,  and the bad guy.    The antagonist went from someone i thought was the second most mundane character to the most compelling,  and the protagonist went from a blank slate character to someone with a bit more depth. I thought that relationship triad was the best aspect of the movie story wise along with the entire lead up to the climax. Iverall though, I think all three story arcs had their moments and were in general pretty good from what i could make out of them  but....

I still think it suffers from crazy pacing, story telling,  and plotting methods that you get with most of these big summer blockbuster franchise movies, but this one was definitely more ambitious and thoughtful than that usual standard fare. Both the B and C story arcs suffered from this the hardest. It felt as if you had maybe three fine stories,  but it just needed some editing or rewrites to stream line them a bit.  I think the story that suffers the most from it was the ex storm trooper guy, because if i read his story right, it's is a more subtle payoff that starts with the girl who sacrificed herself on the bombing run but the plot to get there is a bit unevenly paced, convoluted,  and hard to follow and throws a lot of the other actions in the movie off.  If I remember correctly,  the movie did seem to start pacing itself a little better towards the middle of the film.

 My other initial negative impression:  the one thing that kept nagging me while watching the movie was that at times it felt like it was doing heavy handed expositional retconning of the first movie.   I had the impression that a lot of this dialogue was used to undue the flaws,  and plot build ups JJ Abrams used in the first movie,  to open the way for "the actual true and original story" that we will get in the third movie.   It's like Johnson was trying to bail out Abrams while still trying to make a compelling movie, that in theory is the middle part of a continuous story.  Maybe in that regard I have to see if the third movie (or a second viewing of the last Jedi) would put that suspicion to rest.   If however I have to rely on JJ Abrams to pull together a three movie trilogy that will be a good movie and make sense of everything in the last and final act...i have my serious doubts. That's no fault of Johnson,  that's just the consequence of having one movie sandwiched between two Abram movies.

Also last and final negative thought: say what you will about the prequels, they were awful...i saw each of them because I'm a sucker like that,  but it still felt like George Lucas (A way past his prime and out to make a quick buck George Lucas, but still Lucas), I'm not so sure these films are operating in the same galaxy,  and i wonder if such a thing is the result of just an ultra corporation like Disney just sticking labels on profitable franchises.   The Last Jedi is certainly better than the prequel stuff, and of a better fare than one would expect from a lifeless corporation merely squeezing the milk dry for every vent it's worth.... but it still felt like a different universe than the one Jar Jar Binks and Darth Vader were operating in.   I could be wrong on that,  or that could be irrelevant but that was one thought that ran through my mind after watching The Force Awakens, which was like a different universe but fueled by nostalgia which is kind of odd.  It's to The Last Jedis credit it got rid of cheap nostalgia and  made something unique. How well did it work? I don't know,  i think well especially if you take the movie by itself.   If you have to connect it to the Force Awakens or the movie after,  I guess the juries out on that and I'm not sure how i felt with its connection to the Force Awakens (and I have no intent to watch that movie again).  It's probably the best star wars movie outside the real three,  and probably the best movie one could ask for in these mega million remakes , reboots,  sequels,  and prequels of famous movies.   I'm definitely going to watch this one again because there was a lot more gong on in this movie than you would expect.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 01:17:06 PM by William T »

Offline biro

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 01:19:22 PM »
I thought it was great.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 02:13:57 PM »
I thought it was good. Though seeing people argue and speculate on social media has been equally good.

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 03:59:39 AM »
For example, NOBODY in the HISTORY of Star Wars has ever thought to use a kamikaze light speed attack?

This is the kind of thing that often bugs me in sci-fi and fantasy (super-powerful attacks or abilities being used once, apparently never having been used before or after that despite no obvious impediments)... but in this case I was fine with it. Was thinking about this today and came up with some possible reasons...

1) It was well done, in terms of both the visuals and the audio, and genuinely felt like a memorable 'moment'
2) By that point in the film I had bought in and it would have taken a good bit to end my suspension of disbelief
3) I'm just not that nit-picky with Star Wars (unlike something I love to death, like DS9)
4) There seem to be various speculative solutions that, while not conclusive, confirm my feelings of not having an issue with it:

- Maybe it has been done, but we've just never seen it or been told about it, or haven't read the book/cartoon/whatever it's in
- Maybe it's considered a cowardly or wasteful tactic, and so people just ignore it as a solution
- Only one person made the suicide run--the one who decided to do it; if there is a regular crew that would be a much harder decision
- If the rebels are already short on resources, this seems like a bad trade in all but a once-in-a-lifetime worst type of situation (you lose a ship and have 5 left, they lose a ship and have 500 left)
- Maybe in a universe in which someone can make the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs it just doesn't make no darn sense to do suicide attacks

Offline MariaJLM

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 06:45:04 AM »
I enjoyed it. People kept telling me not to watch it because it's super SJW, but honestly I did not see that at all. Star Wars has always put in quite a few diverse characters. Perhaps they were just annoyed that there were a bunch of female leads, I don't know. I definitely did not get a SJW vibe from it though. There's probably plenty that could be criticized in it, but I'm usually not too nit-picky when it comes to movies(with the exception of historical/period pieces since I'm a huge history geek).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 06:45:44 AM by MariaJLM »

Offline Arachne

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 09:13:11 AM »
Perhaps they were just annoyed that there were a bunch of female leads, I don't know. I definitely did not get a SJW vibe from it though.

Nothing's more alpha than grown men moaning about too many women in a kids' movie. ;D
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Offline Luke

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 12:52:59 PM »
Before I saw it, I read two Internet newspaper reviews that said that the movie started out good, really dragged in the middle, and picked up at the end.  I agree.

Offline MariaJLM

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 03:58:23 PM »
Perhaps they were just annoyed that there were a bunch of female leads, I don't know. I definitely did not get a SJW vibe from it though.

Nothing's more alpha than grown men moaning about too many women in a kids' movie. ;D

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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 08:32:27 PM »
Perhaps they were just annoyed that there were a bunch of female leads, I don't know. I definitely did not get a SJW vibe from it though.

Nothing's more alpha than grown men moaning about too many women in a kids' movie. ;D

The definition of fragile masculinity.

mmh? Now that you mention it...  :police:

Anyway, I think they could end the series right there, but there are probably one thousand Star Wars books already written and they could also keep going. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:26:30 PM by mcarmichael »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2018, 03:23:49 PM »
Perhaps they were just annoyed that there were a bunch of female leads, I don't know. I definitely did not get a SJW vibe from it though.

Nothing's more alpha than grown men moaning about too many women in a kids' movie. ;D

The definition of fragile masculinity.

mmh? Now that you mention it...  :police:

Anyway, I think they could end the series right there, but there are probably one thousand Star Wars books already written and they could also keep going.

There will be more anthology SW films after Episode 9, and even more TV, books and comics. The SWverse has grown to include a lot more than keeping up with the Skywalkers.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2018, 04:56:52 PM »
I really liked it.  Won't know if that changes to "loved it" until second watching. 
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Offline William T

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2018, 07:43:53 PM »
For example, NOBODY in the HISTORY of Star Wars has ever thought to use a kamikaze light speed attack?

This is the kind of thing that often bugs me in sci-fi and fantasy (super-powerful attacks or abilities being used once, apparently never having been used before or after that despite no obvious impediments)... but in this case I was fine with it. Was thinking about this today and came up with some possible reasons...

1) It was well done, in terms of both the visuals and the audio, and genuinely felt like a memorable 'moment'
2) By that point in the film I had bought in and it would have taken a good bit to end my suspension of disbelief
3) I'm just not that nit-picky with Star Wars (unlike something I love to death, like DS9)
4) There seem to be various speculative solutions that, while not conclusive, confirm my feelings of not having an issue with it:

- Maybe it has been done, but we've just never seen it or been told about it, or haven't read the book/cartoon/whatever it's in
- Maybe it's considered a cowardly or wasteful tactic, and so people just ignore it as a solution
- Only one person made the suicide run--the one who decided to do it; if there is a regular crew that would be a much harder decision
- If the rebels are already short on resources, this seems like a bad trade in all but a once-in-a-lifetime worst type of situation (you lose a ship and have 5 left, they lose a ship and have 500 left)
- Maybe in a universe in which someone can make the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs it just doesn't make no darn sense to do suicide attacks

I'm going to nit pick you on this.   The mistake of the "par sec" ought probably  be compared more to the mistake of gravity bombs in space in the last Jedi.  That mistake is at best a technical minor error,  and one is usually more in the wrong for pointing such things out.

The light speed bomb may have committed a slightly worse narrative error.   It may have been a minor deus ex machina, but it was a minor one with a good payoff.   Where I would deduct points if I put my "critic hat" on is that the character who made the sacrifice was introduced in a clunky telegraphed, expository  way (which had the unfortunate problem of being connected to the weak point of how Carrie Fisher was put out of commission) and the minor deus ex machina  flaw of her sacrifice together () makes one deduct a couple small points on the film.  Tired together with this story arc is also some bad editing, overt exposition,   and pacing and couple other too many suspension of disbelief points which really kind of hamper some of the story,  particularly the two arcs involving the two side characters.
If however a person is focusing too much on those things, like the dude thinking about par secs ote gravity bombs, they're missing the forest for the trees and more on the wrong for dwelling too much on it.   It's just a bit more forgivable to think about the light speed action.

I think maybe a comparison with the light speed sacrifice might be if in Lord of the rings,  what if gandolph unleashed some kind of game changing unknown power that he could've used before with no explanation.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 07:56:50 PM by William T »

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2018, 10:23:19 PM »
The passive aggressive comments aside, the gravity bombs were in the very opening of the movie when there wasn't a narrative established, and I realized that after my viewing of the film.

Even then, the narrative was not really clever or original, and in one of the few aspects it was original - the light speed attack - it doesn't make logical sense.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2018, 10:45:45 PM »

There will be more anthology SW films after Episode 9, and even more TV, books and comics. The SWverse has grown to include a lot more than keeping up with the Skywalkers.

Oh, I already know. I don't remember if I found it laying around at a truck stop, or if I picked it up at ye olde book swap, but I do think there are a bunch of Star Wars books.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2018, 10:58:24 PM »
The passive aggressive comments aside, the gravity bombs were in the very opening of the movie when there wasn't a narrative established, and I realized that after my viewing of the film.

Even then, the narrative was not really clever or original, and in one of the few aspects it was original - the light speed attack - it doesn't make logical sense.

I think it's fairly commonly understood that even at light speed, one ought to attempt to avoid any massive objects, stars, planets, other spaceships. I keep thinking I remember Han Solo saying something about it, but I don't remember what. Probably it was C3PO.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 12:42:46 PM »
Quote
I think maybe a comparison with the light speed sacrifice might be if in Lord of the rings,  what if gandolph unleashed some kind of game changing unknown power that he could've used before with no explanation.

You mean like calling the eagles to just fly Frodo to Mt. Doom with the Ring?
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2018, 02:01:01 PM »

There will be more anthology SW films after Episode 9, and even more TV, books and comics. The SWverse has grown to include a lot more than keeping up with the Skywalkers.

Oh, I already know. I don't remember if I found it laying around at a truck stop, or if I picked it up at ye olde book swap, but I do think there are a bunch of Star Wars books.

'A bunch' is a nice vague way of putting it. :P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_books
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Offline William T

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 02:15:10 PM »
Quote
I think maybe a comparison with the light speed sacrifice might be if in Lord of the rings,  what if gandolph unleashed some kind of game changing unknown power that he could've used before with no explanation.

You mean like calling the eagles to just fly Frodo to Mt. Doom with the Ring?

If I remember correctly that was a thing that me and my friends kind of had a "what the heck" moment to.   The point is,  it's a kind of minor flaw that you shrug your shoulders to and move on.   But it's a flaw that's categorically  different and a little less ignorable than bombs dropping in space,  where one is just best to ignore it.   Every artist is going to run into those problems at some point.  And honestly if it looked cooler,  was easier to pull off in stunts, I was wasting too much time thinking of "realistic alternatives", it made better sense to the narrative,  it's a tertiary deus ex machina that has a good payoff,  or it's a venial sin that works where I get to sneak in giving the bird because it isn't (scientifically, politically, ethically,  religiously,  continuity, canonically,
realistically)  correct I'd put it in the film EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.   We're I creating such a thing it's simply not my job to care much about those tertiary things,  and as a viewer it shouldn't be much of your concern either,  as your missing the forest for the trees.



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« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 02:18:23 PM by William T »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2018, 02:22:07 PM »
Flying the eagles in was only possible because Mordor was in disarray and the Nazgul and the rest of Sauron's army were dead or occupied in battle.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2018, 03:45:33 PM »
Flying the eagles in was only possible because Mordor was in disarray and the Nazgul and the rest of Sauron's army were dead or occupied in battle.

Yeah, that's likely the best explanation. Though it makes me wonder what ever happened to those demon crows that Saruman had.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2018, 03:36:57 AM »
Did not care for it.

In specifics, this character was like Elizabeth Gilbert in space:
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 03:37:23 AM by NicholasMyra »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2018, 07:22:38 PM »
At least it was better than Episode VII.

Among the least of my concerns, General Organa and Vice Admiral Holdo were dressed rather odd for being high-ranking members of an organized military force.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 07:27:41 PM by Hawkeye »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 07:42:48 AM »
Among the least of my concerns, General Organa and Vice Admiral Holdo were dressed rather odd for being high-ranking members of an organized military force.

Entirely deliberate, creators say; along 'the cassock doesn't make the priest' lines.
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2018, 12:12:56 AM »
I took a bunch of kids to see it at the Imax.   They all liked it a lot.   I probably missed 15 min of the movie taking kids out of the theater for bathroom breaks.

Some of those scenes were pretty thrilling and spectacular to look at,  like the fleet getting blown up,  the throne room,  and the climactic last battle.  I didn't like the first movie, and I didn't think much of the main protagonist and antagonist in it.  In this movie however that changed.   I liked the relationship between Luke,  the girl,  and the bad guy.    The antagonist went from someone i thought was the second most mundane character to the most compelling,  and the protagonist went from a blank slate character to someone with a bit more depth. I thought that relationship triad was the best aspect of the movie story wise along with the entire lead up to the climax. Iverall though, I think all three story arcs had their moments and were in general pretty good from what i could make out of them  but....

I still think it suffers from crazy pacing, story telling,  and plotting methods that you get with most of these big summer blockbuster franchise movies, but this one was definitely more ambitious and thoughtful than that usual standard fare. Both the B and C story arcs suffered from this the hardest. It felt as if you had maybe three fine stories,  but it just needed some editing or rewrites to stream line them a bit.  I think the story that suffers the most from it was the ex storm trooper guy, because if i read his story right, it's is a more subtle payoff that starts with the girl who sacrificed herself on the bombing run but the plot to get there is a bit unevenly paced, convoluted,  and hard to follow and throws a lot of the other actions in the movie off.  If I remember correctly,  the movie did seem to start pacing itself a little better towards the middle of the film.

 My other initial negative impression:  the one thing that kept nagging me while watching the movie was that at times it felt like it was doing heavy handed expositional retconning of the first movie.   I had the impression that a lot of this dialogue was used to undue the flaws,  and plot build ups JJ Abrams used in the first movie,  to open the way for "the actual true and original story" that we will get in the third movie.   It's like Johnson was trying to bail out Abrams while still trying to make a compelling movie, that in theory is the middle part of a continuous story.  Maybe in that regard I have to see if the third movie (or a second viewing of the last Jedi) would put that suspicion to rest.   If however I have to rely on JJ Abrams to pull together a three movie trilogy that will be a good movie and make sense of everything in the last and final act...i have my serious doubts. That's no fault of Johnson,  that's just the consequence of having one movie sandwiched between two Abram movies.

Also last and final negative thought: say what you will about the prequels, they were awful...i saw each of them because I'm a sucker like that,  but it still felt like George Lucas (A way past his prime and out to make a quick buck George Lucas, but still Lucas), I'm not so sure these films are operating in the same galaxy,  and i wonder if such a thing is the result of just an ultra corporation like Disney just sticking labels on profitable franchises.   The Last Jedi is certainly better than the prequel stuff, and of a better fare than one would expect from a lifeless corporation merely squeezing the milk dry for every vent it's worth.... but it still felt like a different universe than the one Jar Jar Binks and Darth Vader were operating in.   I could be wrong on that,  or that could be irrelevant but that was one thought that ran through my mind after watching The Force Awakens, which was like a different universe but fueled by nostalgia which is kind of odd.  It's to The Last Jedis credit it got rid of cheap nostalgia and  made something unique. How well did it work? I don't know,  i think well especially if you take the movie by itself.   If you have to connect it to the Force Awakens or the movie after,  I guess the juries out on that and I'm not sure how i felt with its connection to the Force Awakens (and I have no intent to watch that movie again).  It's probably the best star wars movie outside the real three,  and probably the best movie one could ask for in these mega million remakes , reboots,  sequels,  and prequels of famous movies.   I'm definitely going to watch this one again because there was a lot more gong on in this movie than you would expect.
Nice review. I want to see it again, too.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2018, 11:19:07 PM »
I'll probably see it again.  :)
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2018, 11:55:44 PM »
I think I'm a jedi.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2018, 03:34:59 AM »
I think I'm a jedi.

Which I guess would be the proper way to express that, since only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 03:57:32 AM »
I think I'm a jedi.
Which I guess would be the proper way to express that, since only a Sith deals in absolutes.
May the force reveal me as a proper jedi.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2018, 04:12:02 AM »
Maybe I'm also a Saiyajin.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2018, 04:14:19 AM »
Maybe I'm also a Saiyajin.

Too bad it's Sunday. Those buildings would have been filled with people tomorrow.
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2018, 04:15:36 AM »
Two years ago, we flew to Athens for Easter break and got The Force Awakens on the plane. This year we're flying down again, at the same time of year, so I hope the luck repeats itself and we get The Last Jedi on the way. ;D
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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2018, 01:59:45 AM »
I think I'm a jedi.
Which I guess would be the proper way to express that, since only a Sith deals in absolutes.
May the force reveal me as a proper jedi.

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2018, 02:04:57 AM »
The Jedi in that galaxy have been around for over a thousand generations.  I wonder if the ancients pronounced it "Yedi?"  :P

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2018, 02:11:42 AM »
i have "The Return of the Jedi" on repeat. I know all the lines. C3PO has some of the best.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 02:16:03 AM by mcarmichael »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2018, 02:22:55 AM »
</mistake>
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 02:23:58 AM by mcarmichael »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2018, 02:25:33 AM »
</hipster error>
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2018, 04:01:59 AM »
The Jedi in that galaxy have been around for over a thousand generations.  I wonder if the ancients pronounced it "Yedi?"  :P
No true skeptic worries over your midnight preambulations. Generally.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 04:14:05 AM by mcarmichael »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2018, 04:18:55 AM »
The Jedi in that galaxy have been around for over a thousand generations.  I wonder if the ancients pronounced it "Yedi?"  :P
No true skeptic worries over your midnight preambulations. Generally.
Not to mention, if you reveal yourself to be a bicyclist or a hipster, you may be fined. As if that were a bad thing.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 04:28:41 AM by mcarmichael »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2018, 12:16:21 AM »
Did not care for it.

In specifics, this character was like Elizabeth Gilbert in space:


Finally saw it.

Based on this comment, I actually expected to hate Holdo lol. But in fact, I found her pleasantly sassy. I kept seeing Laura Dern's character from Jurassic Park saying all her lines.

Her animesque death was pretty cool looking, if strangely ineffectual (how long did it take that dang ship to explode lol?)


Overall it felt a tad overstuffed, but I liked it a lot more than I disliked it. It felt more original than Force Awakens.


I think the greatest mystery of this whole movie is - in the beginning - how were the rebels able to drop bombs in outer space?

I thought it was okay, but I still think Episode 3 is a way better movie; there are ultimately three things that bothered me throughout this whole movie.

1. Besides Ray and her sisterly interactions with Kylo Ren, NONE of the new characters are REMOTELY interesting. All of them are bland with no interesting character development or motivations, and Rose's character was absolutely not interesting at all. Kylo Ren as well is not interesting; he goes from this weak, whining conflicted character who won't shoot his mother to "ha ha, I'm actually the devil!" in like 30 seconds.

I disagree. I think he flip-flopped several times over the course of the movie. It's only in the Crait scenes that we really get "Ok, this guy's not Vader, he really is irredeemable now." Though I suppose even that could be overturned in Ep 9.

Also, if you can just use the force to survive outer-space, how did the Emperor die in Episode 6?

I didn't interpret the Emperor as falling into space, but rather as going spalt on the floor. He was also in the process of getting fried by his own Force lightning and the Death Star exploded not too long afterward. But even if he was able to preserve himself in the vacuum, Leia almost died doing it even for the minute or so that she was out there and was really lucky that she was able to make it to a functioning ship. Palpatine might not have been so lucky.

3. The entire casino segment of the film was an absolute waste and not interesting, not to mention the poorly developed political pandering. Don't just casually throw in "the gun industry are the REAL villains in this whole conflict" and introduce nothing else about this concept to make such an idea remotely interesting. We haven't seen how evil those "billionaires" are to justify the way they are treated by the "heroes" of the movie.

Of course we did. Did you not seeing the whipping of children? Admittedly, a lot of it relies on a certain amount of shorthand, but I think we've seen enough casual cruelty over the course of this franchise to know pretty much what these people are all about. If you know the EU, you'll also know that the flying space yacht from the first few seconds is a Hutt craft.

I saw the wrecking of the place as more an unavoidable, though not unwelcome, side effect of escaping the First Order with DJ in tow than a deliberate act of destruction.

One thing I WILL say against the casino stuff, they missed the opportunity for some Lando Calrissian. I was all excited hoping that he would be the codebreaker, but even a cameo would have been cool.

I liked this episode so much, even more than the Force Awakening. Lots of happenings and surprises.
Kylo Ren shows that devil character is not always powerful or unhesitant. And it shows that the evil is powered by revenge.
Snoke's death can be perceived as something stupid, but I think that it may be result of his pride. And this of course would be contradicting the Jedis' meditaions and humility, Yoda's teaching that a mistake is the best teacher.

However, for me the last scene (with a boy lookin in the sky) was unnecessary.

I think it was important for establishing the theme that the spirit of the Rebellion has to live on without the Skywalkers. You can also think of it as the culmination of the early scene with spacedogllamarabbithorses as well as the beginning of a corrective to the slavery that our "heroes" did nothing visibly about in the prequel trilogy. Solo has a few similar character beats.


One weird little nitpick I did have, What does the word "Godspeed" mean to these people? How many religions even exist in Republic society other than some kind of general belief in the Force (which Luke seems to distinguish from the Jedi religion proper). Certainly we see no evidence of a belief in a Christian-like God that's been so ubiquitous in their history that benedictory phrases like "Godspeed" would become a normal part of everybody's speech.

I hate when sci-fi and fantasy writers put cultural things from our world into their stories without thinking through the implications. I mean, it's not like it's a big deal or anything, but it just kind of bugs me :P It could easily have just been "May the Force be with the Resistance" or something like that.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 12:23:36 AM by Volnutt »
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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2018, 12:29:02 AM »
I remember somewhere Neil deGrasse Tyson* mentioning godspeed being in the movie, and how he was ok with it since it's a phrase ensconced in the history/lingo of the American space program. So it was maybe a nod or homage to the work done by those at NASA. As a world building thing I totally agree with you; obviously some things are just unavoidable ("why do all these aliens speak English?"), but others things seem like they should be more carefully weighed. If it was intentional though I'm more ok with it.


*on the Joe Rogan show maybe

Offline Volnutt

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Re: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2018, 12:35:45 AM »
I remember somewhere Neil deGrasse Tyson* mentioning godspeed being in the movie, and how he was ok with it since it's a phrase ensconced in the history/lingo of the American space program. So it was maybe a nod or homage to the work done by those at NASA. As a world building thing I totally agree with you; obviously some things are just unavoidable ("why do all these aliens speak English?"), but others things seem like they should be more carefully weighed. If it was intentional though I'm more ok with it.


*on the Joe Rogan show maybe

OH! I didn't even make that connection!

Yeah, if that was the reference, I guess I can forgive it.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.