Wow, the levels of cynicism and negativity never cease to amaze me considering this is a Christian forum, no wonder folks like Yeshuaism question where our fruits are, there are way to many sourpusses here
But of course, we're not happy about things that make us unhappy. Is this not also a part of the Christian faith? We go to the lions singing joyfully, but we are right to be distressed at the people's turning away from God, are we not? I am not happy when evil is called good and good evil. I think this is not an outrageous reaction.
Are you calm down now from the tirade?
Tirade? I am trying to find where the tirade is, but keeping getting lost in all the exclamation points, caps lock, and bold I did not use. Or is it that everything that you disagree with is a tirade?
You didn't have to read me the riot act just because you didn't like your life in California and others here do, sorry you feel that way but seriously, a bit over-heated there
What do you mean? I love California. Its natural beauty (at least here in the north, with all the redwoods and whatnot) is unsurpassed, its people are by and large very friendly, and it's where the vast majority of my friends and family are. I love it; I just don't look at it, or anywhere, with rose-colored glasses.
In regards to "living in a Christian society" I agree with you completely and yet we couldn't disagree more. California is not a Christian society, and we as Christians have no right to change it. We are a minority here,
I am sorry to interrupt your seemingly arbitrarily-chosen string of words, but it should be pointed out that Christians are, in fact, the majority of the state, as per Pew Forum's
2008 study, wherein Protestants and Catholics alone made up 66% (with Orthodox and others grabbing another few percent in total).
we can ask for mutual respect and tolerance, and no more.
We are not beggars. This is a bare minimum, such as is extended to any group regardless or religious or other background as a matter of the basic humanity and dignity that is shared by all people by virtue of their common origin (a concept that is itself very much rooted in Christianity). And, I should add, given the perversion of words like "respect" and "tolerance" by those who have very little of either, not only should we not limit ourselves to such debased goals, we should not even be taking them as a starting point. Our relation to the rest of society is not and has never been within the confines of what it means to play nice with others and get along within a society that hates us. You don't win friends with salad, and you don't win souls to the Lord by merely asking for bread crumbs from the table, as though we are in Egypt or Iraq or whatever. No. Our message is revolutionary in the sense that it does not see society as it is, even in ultra-"tolerant" California, as the best of all possible worlds. If the singularity/uniqueness of our message (that is, the salvation of all the world through Christ, whose sacrifice unites us with the one true God as only He can) is lost in this tolerance-fest, then we have gained the world but lost our souls. Doesn't sound like a good way to be.
We want to be allowed to have our own Churches and to have mutual respect from our community, and my experience with Orthodox in California is that we are quite well-respected and folks are even politely curious about who we are.
What we can't do is we can't force our values on the community at large can we?
Why is it that when special interest groups for the gays, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Shinto people, etc. get ordinances and propositions drawn up to increase the favor shown to and influence of their groups it is a triumph of tolerance, but when I say I want to live in a Christian society, I am somehow forcing my values on everyone else? Should I vote against my own conscience, in line with unrestricted abortion and gay marriage, so as to not be seen as mean? Don't be silly. This is the reality of life where, I'm sorry, most of the time you have to stand up for what you believe in regardless of how it might make your neighbor sad, because your neighbor might have some wacky idea that they should be allowed to force you
not to pray in public, not to have religious icons or crosses in a private religious school, not to have "God" on a piece of currency, or whatever the cause du jure
is this month. So their personal preferences should win over mine because...why, exactly? It'd be one thing if we were having this conversation in some kind of vacuum where aggressive secularization, Islamicization, and other things weren't happening, but they are. And they are not tolerant forces. Even if it puts me well out step with some imagined majority of non-Christians, I'd rather go down fighting against them even if it makes me seem crazy and intolerant. Mas vale vivir de pie...
, no? Again, what they would replace it with is much, much worse. You can't sit on the sidelines hoping you can kumbaya your way into heaven, my friend.
Would the Baptists agree? What about the Catholics? Or the Orientals and Chalcedonians? Let alone the Jews and the vitriolic Dawkins crowd..
Does everyone have to agree with everything ever? I'd be fine with the Jews, vitriolic Dawkins crowd, etc. being on the losing end, though I suspect that in reality we may have more points of commonality with at least some of these groups than we ever thought we did (i.e., Mormons and Catholics coming together to oppose gay marriage), and besides no one is irrecoverably beyond reach. (See, I'm plenty positive.)
That being said, when we live in a secular, democratic, pluralistic society like California in particular we all have to learn to simply play nice with each other.
I don't want to play nice with forces that want to destroy me and make me a slave to their sick, anti-Christ ideologies. No.
No disrespect, but if you want to live in a more Orthodox Christian environment, I suggest you move and stop raining on our parade yo, we Californian are doing the best we can.
I already moved (I'm visiting family over the holidays), and since when is that an appropriate response to anything, Mr. "Stop Raining on Our Parade"? Why are you raining on my parade and on the parades of the millions of committed Christian Californians, by suggesting that we beg like dogs for scraps of false tolerance and false respect? Why don't you
move, if you don't like the reality of a Christian-majority California? I'm not saying that non-Christians can't be there or anywhere, but I am saying that in reality
, we don't need to kowtow to anyone or anything. We should be proud, not triumphalist, and at the same time humble, not sheepish. If there were less "all cultures and religions are equal" propaganda going around, maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are now in with regard to the declining prestige of our own heritages among our young people, who are flocking to God-damned alternatives as a result of decades of hippie crystal energy star gazing and moral and cultural relativism gone amok. (Which is certainly not a California-only problem, but is felt rather acutely here among the enormous Latino populations here who are, after all, traditionally Christian.)