Author Topic: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation  (Read 663 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« on: December 14, 2017, 09:52:41 AM »
Jesus condemned whole lands.. of the jews and those before bethsaida and sodom and saved other lands like nineveh. Ofcourse there were times when people were saved in lands.
God was able to save all the jews if they accepted Him.

The point is salvation is not supposed to be very difficult to obtain. I think it is very difficult when the church system is itself not solid on the solid rock. When the floods came it takes us all away. And what was that rock? Jesus said it was not just his teaching on the belief of christ but on all His sayings on how we should treat other people

Jesus said on the pure faith he will build the church and the gates of hades will not prevail. And those pure words were once again Peter confession that Jesus has the words of eternal life.

Do you know the song Many times I have turned by willarm jabusch in which it is said Jesus came to give us mercy?
we will have no mercy if we don't perhaps accept other christians while maintaining our orthodox faith and our priesthood. Or the faith we preach must somehow reach the world for it is written tasteless salt has no worth except to be trampled underfoot by men

I am not saying to compromise our faith for sure for that may be the great falling away that because we have personally failed to reach the world we blame our faith. But we should try to bring salt if not maybe after long consideration we need to change.

We need to perhaps stop waiting on popes but reform ourselves so the pope can decide the good way to go too.



« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 09:53:09 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 10:06:38 AM »
I betrayed a protestant family friend as I consider them for acting in a way I do not like by yelling unexpectedly though I was friendly and showing interest in what they do but I am not free to show any disappointment in the church or to be considered seriously?

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 10:28:21 AM »
I repent it may be harmful what I write for I am the cause of feeling salvation is hard not the church.
We may need a reform but not to change the church teachings for I believe the teachings have always been the same but to return to the roots. Jesus gave authority to apostles to apply scripture on their day I think.
It may need change but to be very careful you don't introduce heresy and many may take advantage as though God likes heresy or feels sorry for His truth.
For example most protestants want unity with the church unlike martin luther but they must not despise the church and all it teaches.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:34:02 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hoplitarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,605
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 03:26:03 PM »

The point is salvation is not supposed to be very difficult to obtain.


Who told you it is supposed to be easy?

“For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it."  Matthew 7:14
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 02:28:22 AM »

The point is salvation is not supposed to be very difficult to obtain.


Who told you it is supposed to be easy?

“For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it."  Matthew 7:14

Is all you offer criticism? Also it is hard to believe you care for my thoughts which is why most of my posts are ignored thanks to the people wrong attachment to st Isaac of Syria. I hope when the church quotes him and when you do you condemn his heresies
I can not be guided in a church which worships idols for they don’t take all my matters seriously and urgent but leave me in my sins to the woe of the world. It is probably my fault now but he Church could be like that in the future. Now confession is open but I don’t feel like going because of previous experiences so it is my fault I don’t go because it is open but I still fear not being taken seriously

It is as difficult as it is just for then how will God judge the world ?
I guess I am wrong it is not easy but it is doable with grace and if we don’t have church and God grace how can we do it ? Colossians below shows how because of Paul suffering the church could be sanctified
if I can explain more I will but John said  “God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world but to save it”
and paul said “who are you to judge another servant to his own master he stands or falls. Indeed he will be made to stand for God is able to make him stand” therefore we don’t keep ourselves standing without grace

On questioning who can be saved it is written “With man it is impossible but with God all things are possible”

Zechariah 4:6 says “Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ Says the Lord of hosts.”

So the question is do we need to sweat blood to be saved ? I guess you are right we need to as Paul said you have not yet resisted to bloodshed striving against sin but by salvation being easy I meant it is difficult at the moment because we don’t even know what we must do I mean no one helps us but we must help ourselves with books etc for if we do have help those who will be saved are “like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,And rejoices like a strong man to run its race”
Really the whole psalm 19 teaches how God grace leads to salvation for those who are willing as John and James to be baptised with Christ baptism.


Colossians 1:24-29 (NKJV)
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.

Is salvation not in a sense easy when the Lord told us “Look to Me and be saved all you ends of the earth” but He may have simply meant He is the way

« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 02:37:29 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 03:00:34 AM »
Church must not change its doctrines for God may have a purpose for it and how can it answer to those it did not preach the truth to if it later teaches the truth even if it can answer they may not believe it. I have erred it is not for us to Change anything. It is for God to judge rightly those outside not us if He will save them.
Also I did not mean I condemn people who sincerely believe all need to be in church their conscience not convicting them and having good answer to conscience I hope all of them are those who hold the faith with a good conscience
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:12:44 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 07:22:49 AM »
I apologise Liza for my words attacking you for just saying plain truth. I guess I like to fight all advise

I feel I have considerable ability and talent God gave me but I bury most of it because I don’t love myself and my soul according to God and I am a coward. I practice false humility as though to put myself down because I consider the talent mine that will lead to pride and envy from others but it is God’s and I think I really just want to be lazy. But I feel the more I delay I may lose my strength to ever achieve anything.

Maybe as jesus says I have to sell what I have and give to the poor and I will  have treasure in heaven after I take up the cross and follow Him successfully and I think the rich man would have made it since that was the thing that was stopping the Lord being with him for salvation. 

I can’t trust people or God will allow me to do the works I want to do. I use that as an excuse because I think maybe the works I want to do come from pride



« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 07:30:58 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 08:18:26 AM »
what if your possessions are the sum of all your efforts to serve God and losing them would mean you made all that time wasted or not fruitful with no benefit ?
If someone steals it it is God will
But if I throw them away I feel I am testing God
The early church shared all their wealth among each other.
So someone may give profit of it
If I wait till I die then noone will benefit now by my new life submitted to jesus and church maybe as monk or dead to the world

and after death we don’t know how it will be used
I am trying to backup everything incase I lose it
and it is taking so long
Do I really have to handle this responsibility ?
I have very little money now what my dad has belongs to him until he dies if he chooses to give to me when he dies it becomes mine
If I can’t handle the responsibility who are the bankers I can give it to ? The church I feel will just give to the poor without investing it so will not have more than 100% of original and the Lord wants increase and it is my responsibility not to give it to anyone even if he seems the most productive person and servant because he can be corrupted by greed and I would be responsible by God
Also the Lord did not advise to give to the bankers and find an easy way but to double
only if after you tried everything and failed you give to bankers I think

I meant
I can’t trust people or God to allow me to do the works I want to do. I use that as an excuse because I think maybe the works I want to do come from pride
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:33:21 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2017, 09:13:57 AM »
God is looking for the courageous who believe they can make it to heaven. Only Joshua and Caleb were before. All the Israelites trembled before Goliath but David had courage
Even if 10000 demons surround me and the fathers may assign a demon to every vice the Lord is a able to save. All those who were saved had faith in God they would not justify themselves that the way is hard and unreasonable. St Anthony wondered all the snares laid on earth against their salvation and said who can get through them ? God said the humble
Faith is the narrow way which is given to those with great humility which is difficult to be completely stripped of all yourself denied and be full of God that is difficult and that involves striving denial and bloodshed
Paul said through many trials and tribulations we must enter but he also was determined to see jesus and trust that he can make it if he tries with all his strength not demanding himself a strength greater than his when he said God will deliver me from every evil work and bring me safely to His kingdom. And I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
To die means none of you exists that is you are humble not to think any good is in you but it takes striving and still works but a different work

You can be humble listening to the characteristics of the spiritual path here
http://web.archive.org/web/20100707230221/http://www.coptichymns.net/module-library-printpub-tid-1-pid-417.html

This is also an encouraging article
http://web.archive.org/web/20100707230624/http://www.coptichymns.net/module-library-printpub-tid-1-pid-351.html

So God says come to me do not fear but examine yourself


Psalm 3 (NKJV)
1 Lord, how they have increased who trouble me!
Many are they who rise up against me.
2 Many are they who say of me,
“There is no help for him in God.”
Selah
3 But You, O Lord, are a shield for me,
My glory and the One who lifts up my head.
4 I cried to the Lord with my voice,
And He heard me from His holy hill.
Selah
5 I lay down and slept;
I awoke, for the Lord sustained me.
6 I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people
Who have set themselves against me all around.
7 Arise, O Lord;
Save me, O my God!
For You have struck all my enemies on the cheekbone;
You have broken the teeth of the ungodly.
8 Salvation belongs to the Lord.
Your blessing is upon Your people.

Unfortunately if I am still keeping the same sins I have not really been honest in the prayer and wanting to see God. I have not really sought God power with all my strength the important thing is He asks all my strength and not someone else strength
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:21:13 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 03:07:28 AM »
We have atleast one person a saint of the church St. Peter of Damaskos who appears to make it seem not too difficult but it may depend how you look at it and I’m not sure I agree. It may work for some to suffice for some hearts who do not despair will eventually cry out to the Lord with all their heart to make them rise. It may work only for those who truly struggle I guess that is what is meant by not willingly surrendering to the enemy . One should never despair but take the opportunity to repent immediately but if one keeps delaying he will find it difficult if not impossible/ will be dead  and then his situation will be hopeless. But his words are very open for misunderstanding if you won’t seek to find the truth what does he mean by patient endurance ? It is easy to do that and easy to self reproach themselves there may be details that will make me agree but I’m not sure I will agree. Because the fruit of true or a holy hope is repentance because having eyes to see or eyes of faith you will work to make your Hope realised

He said the below

It is always possible to make a new start by means of repentance. "You fell," it is written, "now arise"(cf. Prov. 24:16). And if you fall again, then rise again, without despairing at all of your salvation, no matter what happens. So long as you do not surrender yourself willingly to the enemy, your patient endurance, combined with self-reproach, will suffice for your salvation. "For at one time we ourselves went astray in our folly and disobedience," says St. Paul. "... Yet He saved us, not because of any good things we had done, but in His mercy" (Tit. 3:3,5).

St. Peter of Damaskos
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 03:13:56 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 09:10:16 AM »
Also I think St. Peter of Damascus may mean if one is faithful in all areas but one but by patience he will overcome this area

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 06:50:38 AM »
St Isaac the Syrians teachings are great which I should follow I just don’t like the wrong beliefs he has of universal salvation which he seems even sure of even of demons. He made his personal hope a public hope and took a risk that he is not sure of and if he studied the scriptures more from non biased position maybe he would have doubted more his position
I have no desire for even men to be saved who not only do not deserve salvation but would not be right if they were to be saved. I do not mean or I have erred to judge him but I judge idolising him for his position and people thinking it is a right path to follow. In fact he is a harmful guide
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 07:01:44 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 07:09:11 AM »
In fact he is a harmful guide

But it is those fault who listen and he will not be held responsible if he repented

Offline RaphaCam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,365
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2018, 04:26:35 PM »
I believe St. Augustine wrote God punished nations doing evil in an earthly manner (bad kings, war, natural disaster, etc.) because it would be unfair to judge the whole people spiritually.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 04:35:09 AM »
I believe St. Augustine wrote God punished nations doing evil in an earthly manner (bad kings, war, natural disaster, etc.) because it would be unfair to judge the whole people spiritually.

Can you show me dear RaphaCam where Augustine says that?

I know God never judges people unless they have their own unrepentant sins but they will not be spared for their sins which lead not to death except people be righteous perhaps this is why God accepted Moses intercession. I also know if we are righteous we can deliver some who are unrighteous for example our prayers fix our wrong thinking and we can tell others what we know. Many are turned not by us seeking to turn them by going to them but by us living righteously and God draws them to us as the mustard seed which grew into a large tree

Perhaps trying to save others for your own glory brings a curse for when David numbered the people of Israel the bible says guilt would be on the people. But why if they did nothing wrong? I think they did before that

1 Chronicles 21:1-3 (NKJV)
1 Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. 2 So David said to Joab and to the leaders of the people, “Go, number Israel from Beersheba to Dan, and bring the number of them to me that I may know it.”
3 And Joab answered, “May the Lord make His people a hundred times more than they are. But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord’s servants? Why then does my lord require this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt in Israel?”


Offline RaphaCam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,365
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 05:09:29 AM »
Somewhere in the City of God, I can't find it.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 05:15:08 AM »
Okay I will search for it soon in the city of God when I can

Offline mikeforjesus

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,400
Re: When Lands are judged and saved: Thoughts on salvation
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2018, 02:50:39 PM »
St Isaac was born in the 6th century and was not part of the Orthodox Church but that of the church of the east so I should cut him some slack as he may not know better. He probably was trying to follow God so may have been a master of the spiritual life. But I can’t say whether he was saved or not. Though he was not born orthodox does not make him excused because if he was like in this generation with gospel spread in many places he should know better but having a different faith it is understandable but not excused just less punishment

The church may quote his writings but must condemn his heresies or else God will hold their blood to account as He said to Ezekiel

St Isaac the Syrian is wrong the devil has the lake of fire prepared for him because of all his deceptions and it is clearly stated in revelations that no place is found in heaven for them any longer

Revelations says not to add or take away from the prophecy
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 02:59:37 PM by mikeforjesus »