Author Topic: Discernment  (Read 861 times)

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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Discernment
« on: December 03, 2017, 09:08:58 PM »
I think - for many good reasons - I'm going to take a break from these forums, which have been somewhat of an idol to my relationship with God.

I want to ask a question though as a sinful, bastard lamb whose unsure to follow the Shepherd or the Lion dressed up as the Shepherd who is crying for help - how do I discern between God and Satan, and I'm asking from those who have experienced God?

Pray for me.

Who do I listen to? Who is really Christ?




or







This Christ:




or this Christ:



This Theotokos:



or this Theotokos:

« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:17:00 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 01:08:05 PM »
Quote
as a sinful, bastard lamb
While we see our sins and shortcomings, it will be better for you to restrain yourself from such statements, think of it this way: if you pray our father and then declare yourself a "bastard" what is that supposed to mean ?

as for the icons, if an icon of Christ doesn't have a cross with the letters & IC XC, than such a painting is neither an icon, nor of Christ. This is a canon of the Church, same with the Mother of God, if it doesn't have MP OY, it is not of her but just some random painting.

I don't think i remember where this canon is from, could be from the first ecumenical council (not sure)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 01:12:54 PM by Vanhyo »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 01:31:22 PM »
Quote
as a sinful, bastard lamb
While we see our sins and shortcomings, it will be better for you to restrain yourself from such statements, think of it this way: if you pray our father and then declare yourself a "bastard" what is that supposed to mean ?

as for the icons, if an icon of Christ doesn't have a cross with the letters & IC XC, than such a painting is neither an icon, nor of Christ. This is a canon of the Church, same with the Mother of God, if it doesn't have MP OY, it is not of her but just some random painting.

I don't think i remember where this canon is from, could be from the first ecumenical council (not sure)

lol
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 01:33:47 PM »
lol

I have a serious memory problem and don't find it funny.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 01:48:26 PM »
lol

I have a serious memory problem and don't find it funny.

I don't find your memory problem funny either.  I'm sorry.
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline WPM

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 01:53:11 PM »
While we see our sins and shortcomings, it will be better for you to restrain yourself from such statements, think of it this way: if you pray our father and then declare yourself a "bastard" what is that supposed to mean ?

Somebody else on the Internet calls themselves that . . .
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 05:37:16 PM »
I think - for many good reasons - I'm going to take a break from these forums, which have been somewhat of an idol to my relationship with God.

I want to ask a question though as a sinful, bastard lamb whose unsure to follow the Shepherd or the Lion dressed up as the Shepherd who is crying for help - how do I discern between God and Satan, and I'm asking from those who have experienced God?

Pray for me.

Who do I listen to? Who is really Christ?




or







This Christ:




or this Christ:



This Theotokos:



or this Theotokos:



There is only one God, and one Son of God, and one Mother of God. What the Evil One has access to is only human passions.

Tacit in much of your pondering these days seems to be an idea that either Orthodoxy or Catholicism is a possession of Satan's. God forbid. May many be saved, abundant fruit of Christ, from both these inheritances of the Apostles. The question is rather, since you yourself by your experiences have become aware of a choice, which church will best nourish your soul from the particular store of her ancient and present faithfulness. That is, what you face is not a demonic trick but a relatively uncommon blessing. Avail yourself of it with joy.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2017, 05:47:12 PM »
Tacit in much of your pondering these days seems to be an idea that either Orthodoxy or Catholicism is a possession of Satan's. God forbid. May many be saved, abundant fruit of Christ, from both these inheritances of the Apostles. The question is rather, since you yourself by your experiences have become aware of a choice, which church will best nourish your soul from the particular store of her ancient and present faithfulness. That is, what you face is not a demonic trick but a relatively uncommon blessing. Avail yourself of it with joy.
Amen.

Despite what the polemicists would say, Christ is not as concerned with borders as he is with faithfulness.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 01:06:14 AM »
I think - for many good reasons - I'm going to take a break from these forums, which have been somewhat of an idol to my relationship with God.
More importantly, you need to talk to an Orthodox priest.  Try to call the closest parishes to try to find a priest who's willing to accompany you in your discernment, even if just by phone.

Quote from: LivenotoneviL
how do I discern between God and Satan, and I'm asking from those who have experienced God?
You shouldn't really frame your discernment between the Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Churches as between God and satan.  Rather, it's between more God or less God.  More Catholic or less Catholic.  More Orthodox or less Orthodox.  Wherever you end up, by God's grace, you'll be a better Christian.

Lord, have mercy on your servant and guide him ever closer to You, who is good, all loving and merciful.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 01:06:27 AM by Sharbel »
ܩܕܝܫܐ ܐܢ̱ܬ ܠܐ ܡܝܘܬܐ

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »
Tacit in much of your pondering these days seems to be an idea that either Orthodoxy or Catholicism is a possession of Satan's. God forbid. May many be saved, abundant fruit of Christ, from both these inheritances of the Apostles. The question is rather, since you yourself by your experiences have become aware of a choice, which church will best nourish your soul from the particular store of her ancient and present faithfulness. That is, what you face is not a demonic trick but a relatively uncommon blessing. Avail yourself of it with joy.
Amen.

Despite what the polemicists would say, Christ is not as concerned with borders as he is with faithfulness.

Amen.

Offline IXOYE

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2017, 08:28:48 PM »
Lord, have mercy!

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 07:51:54 PM »
The answer is simple.
When you ask people they say their denominations is true.
When you ask God he says Eastern Orthodoxy is true. Stick with God since eternal life and salvation comes from God.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 07:58:01 PM »
Romanian Catholics and ROmanian orthodox asked God which denomination is true. They put orthodox holy water and catholic water for several days aside asking God to show which denominaton is true,. After several days Catholic holy water was green and orthodox holy water was crisp. showing orthodoxy is right.

Common guys look who is the guardian of the treasury of CAtholic Church. Does he openly worhips the devil?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:00:02 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 07:59:00 PM »
I did not say pope is lead by th e devil but the man that controls Catholic Church money.
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Offline biro

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 07:59:40 PM »
Romanian Catholics and ROmanian orthodox asked God which denomination is true. They put orthodox holy water and catholic water for several days aside asking God to show which denominaton is true,. After several days Catholic holy water was green and orthodox holy water was crisp. showing orthodoxy is right.

Common guys look who is the guardian of the treasury of CAtholic Church, a man that openly worship the devil and take commands from him. Devil has control of CAtholic Church money. He is more powerfull than pope in reality, a man lead by devil. What kind of questions do you have?

What the hell garbage is your second paragraph? Are you ignorant?
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 08:02:18 PM »
Sorry. I corrected my second paragraph but find for yourself. Google guardian of Vatican treasury. Remember this who controls the money controls the organization.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 08:03:12 PM »
One more thing. I learn religion from God not from books and for God there is nothing hiden. You can see from my posts that I learned from God. I go directly to target. God truly exists and I spoke once with God face to face.In that day my life was saved by God.

How do I know about the guardian of the catholic Church treasury. How do I know about the miracles I did present to you? From God.;
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:12:47 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 08:26:31 PM »
Ok lets stick with this.
When people are asked they say my jurisdiction is true.
When God is aske God says Eastern Orthodoxy is true. Go after God and you will not have problems.
Sometimes I speak too much.
Lets put it this way, here are some websites that claim that the family of guardian of treasury of Catholic Church wroships devil. So go to google. Search for guardian of Vatican treasury. Find the name. Then do one more search: Name worships devil. Read.

So I did not want to say that the man tht Controls Catholic Church money worships the devil I wanted to say that many websiters apparently say the family in general of the man that is guardian of Vatican treasury worships the devil. or at least this is what I believ I saw when I enter his name and the worships the devil. I might be wrong. You have to find the truth. I am not Catholic and I do not care.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:35:31 PM by pasadi97 »
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Offline Nathanael

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 08:39:12 PM »
One more thing. I learn religion from God not from books and for God there is nothing hiden. You can see from my posts that I learned from God. I go directly to target. God truly exists and I spoke once with God face to face.In that day my life was saved by God.

How do I know about the guardian of the catholic Church treasury. How do I know about the miracles I did present to you? From God.;

We need books and other people to learn how to believe rigtly, to pray, to behave and so on. Probably no one learned everything directly and only from God, because we human beings don't have the highest level of humility from the start. And it's even dangerous to think that we don't need spiritual books or people... :
http://oprelesti.ru/index.php/what-is-spiritual-delusion

This site gave me a lot of discernment for spiritual things years ago. And we need that discernment, not so that we can judge better other people, but to free ourselves more and more from our own delusions...because we're all deluded to some extent according to St. Ignatius.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:42:56 PM by Nathanael »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 08:43:22 PM »
Thank you for the advice.
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Offline biro

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 08:47:44 PM »
One more thing. I learn religion from God not from books and for God there is nothing hiden. You can see from my posts that I learned from God. I go directly to target. God truly exists and I spoke once with God face to face.In that day my life was saved by God.

How do I know about the guardian of the catholic Church treasury. How do I know about the miracles I did present to you? From God.;

This is getting ridiculous. I know there's a language barrier, but come on.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 09:05:23 PM »
I prayed to God to send an angel to Nathanael to tell him if I learned from God or not and I f I spoke face to face with God or not if it is good in Gods eyes.

Delusion is a big issue.Thank you for the warning.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline Nathanael

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 09:45:52 PM »
I prayed to God to send an angel to Nathanael to tell him if I learned from God or not and I f I spoke face to face with God or not if it is good in Gods eyes.

Delusion is a big issue.Thank you for the warning.

Thank you for the prayer! :)
Of course we can get sometimes illumination from God, but we have to control, if it's really from God. And we do that by reading spiritual books; by asking our spiritual father (or other persons) and being as layman obedient to him; by being patient and careful in general. This is the orthodox way teached always by the holy fathers.
An elder once said, that if we're 100% sure about a personal vision or illumination that we got from God, we are deeply deluded. We should have at least 1 % doubt, even the great St. Symeon the New Theologian doubted his visions, because he was experienced and he had deep humility.

Delusion is not only a big issue, but it's also always present. That's why I recommend not only to you but to everbody else the (best) link about prelest which I sended in my last post.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 09:48:32 PM by Nathanael »
Wisdom from Valaam:
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The Goal of the Eastern Christian Monk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZishdSrYWM

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 11:47:14 PM »
You are welcome. Thank you for the advice.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 08:23:44 AM »
Catholic and protestant people should pray for the devil to get out of their churches so they can come back to the perfect church made by perfect God Eastern Orthodoxy. Orthodox people should help them.
Eastern Orthodox Church is protected by perfect arm of God and devil cannot enter as it is writte The gates of the Hell will not overcome the Church.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline biro

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 08:25:18 AM »
Catholic and protestant people should pray for the devil to get out of their churches so they can come back to the perfect church made by perfect God Eastern Orthodoxy. Orthodox people should help them.
Eastern Orthodox Church is protected by perfect arm of God and devil cannot enter as it is writte The gates of the Hell will not overcome the Church.

How do you get away with typing this garbage all the time?
My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 09:16:48 AM »
In 100 years you will say what kind of garbage did I say? Unbelievable.
There are people  that are promised with lies by the devil that they will be the leaders in after life and many people will be their servants. Well these people some of them died expecting to be leaders and to have many servants and some of them come back to life. This is what they say.
When we died the devils come to us . Imagine a devil is more powerfull than a lion and than a shark and than a tiger and than a dynosaur. The devils started bitting us bitting and bitting us with lots of pain. No leaders and no servants as the devil has no power in afterlife and will be probably thrown into fire. He can not save himself from fire how can he save you. He can not be himself a leader how is he going to make you a leader?
THe devil is a sick angel he feels pleasure by hurting you and he can not deny his pleasure he cannot overcome his passions to do bad. The greatest punishemnt would be for someone to be left alone with the devils . It is worse than being alone with a tiger a dynosaur or a shark.

For a devil there is a way out. In the book Evergetinos a woman transformed an devil into an angel of light. It is also in the books of FAther Cleopa.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:21:46 AM by pasadi97 »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 09:58:35 AM »
If you dont know a way out from devil pray to God for an EASY and FAST way out. God knows it.
God sayd rather than keeping a bad oath dont keep it at all.
People tha were with the devil after temporary death runned effectively to first church screaming and there they prayed to God to recive them. They broke all links with the devil nullified verything they did with the devil and started as christians. When devill attacked them in revenge they will call on Jesus for protection and nothing ahappened to them.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline biro

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 10:36:19 AM »
STOP BEING INCOHERENT.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2018, 11:09:06 AM »
I dunno, I thought that his last three posts were pretty coherent. It basically boils down to "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

You should be nicer to Pasadi. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's one of the most loving people on this site. Definitely a purer and more gracious heart than I'll ever have.



LnoL, I'm glad that you're getting closer to finding a Church home! :)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 11:10:27 AM by Volnutt »
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline biro

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2018, 11:34:12 AM »
I dunno, I thought that his last three posts were pretty coherent. It basically boils down to "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

You should be nicer to Pasadi. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's one of the most loving people on this site. Definitely a purer and more gracious heart than I'll ever have.



LnoL, I'm glad that you're getting closer to finding a Church home! :)

I don't think so at all.

I used to work in a homeless shelter.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

Offline Rambam

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2018, 11:55:54 AM »
Hey, Biro. Why don't u give this poor hoomin a break? He tryin' to type on compooter, and that hard woork.

His messages are very nice. :) Like he writing from the Rainbow Bridge.

Okai, Bai!

STOP BEING INCOHERENT.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2018, 12:03:22 PM »
I dunno, I thought that his last three posts were pretty coherent. It basically boils down to "Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

You should be nicer to Pasadi. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's one of the most loving people on this site. Definitely a purer and more gracious heart than I'll ever have.



LnoL, I'm glad that you're getting closer to finding a Church home! :)

I don't think so at all.

I used to work in a homeless shelter.

Good on ya for doing that (really) but I wasn't trying to make some kind of comparison.

All I know is that even if Pasadi's a bit hamfisted sometimes (and he is), I'm jealous of the fact that almost every one of his posts on this site is just dripping with real concern for the souls of others.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 12:08:15 PM by Volnutt »
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline pasadi97

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2018, 07:12:34 AM »
Volnutt thank you for your messages.
I prayed so you have a good understanding of Eucharist.
Why did you choose to remain Evngelical as it is written in your profile?
Is immortality not good for you, why do you want to take chances on screing your immortality?
I won't step on your liberty given by God to be what you want to be but I am just curious.
God the Father is great. God the Father is good.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2018, 11:10:25 AM »
You should be nicer to Pasadi. I don't agree with everything he says, but he's one of the most loving people on this site. Definitely a purer and more gracious heart than I'll ever have.

I have to agree with you. I could take issue with many, many things he says but I've never gotten the sense that he spoke from anything other than real concern and holy zeal.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2018, 01:40:38 PM »
Volnutt thank you for your messages.
I prayed so you have a good understanding of Eucharist.
Why did you choose to remain Evngelical as it is written in your profile?
Is immortality not good for you, why do you want to take chances on screing your immortality?
I won't step on your liberty given by God to be what you want to be but I am just curious.

Probably mostly social justice/political stuff at this point. Also, fear that I wouldn't be able to endure to the end (however that's construed) and would still wind up going to Hell in a system like Orthodoxy. I feel like Protestant understandings of grace cover my worthless behind better. That's most likely irrational, I know. I'm not sure how to escape it emotionally though.

But I don't want to derail this thread any more than it's already been. Thank you for your prayers, they're very appreciated.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 01:41:53 PM by Volnutt »
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Thomas

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Re: Discernment
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2018, 06:32:08 PM »
sadly I fear that this topic has gone beyond the Purpose of the Convert Issues Forum and I am locking this topic. Please review the Forum Purpose  to refresh your self with our parameters:

The purpose of the Convert issues forum is to provide a a place on the OC.Net where inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted could ask their questions about the Orthodox Faith in a safe and supportive forum without retribution or recrimination. Many of those posting in this area are ignorant of Orthodox teachings and are using this forum to understand what are the basic teachings and practices of the Orthodox churches. Due to the simplicity of many of their requests and responses, direct and simple answers with sources if possible are most helpful.

If the moderators find that the discussions become faith or jurisdiction debates, the topic will be split and sent the appropriate OC.Net forum to continue the discussion or debate. As a poster, you may also ask that a topic be split so that a private discussion can be established to go into detail about the issues that you feel adamant about and wish to debate or discuss. The convert forum is not a place for combative debate or argument. 

Thank you for your following these guidelines to the edification and spiritual growth of the forum inquirers, catechumen, and newly converted.

In Christ,
Thomas
Convert Forum Moderator
Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas