Author Topic: Catholic-Orthodox "journeying toward unity"-Fr. Joseph Wallace. Council in 2025?  (Read 4965 times)

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Offline Xavier

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If the Church of St. Peter's in Rome and that dedicated in Constantinople to St. Andrew are to walk together again as brothers in the Lord one day, an Ecumenical Council to reunite the Churches will certainly be necessary? Would 2025 be an opportune time for the Successor of St. Peter and the Ecumenical Patriarch to meet for a joint synod?

http://catholicstarherald.org/catholic-and-orthodox-journeying-toward-unity/

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Back in June, Pope Francis met with a delegation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople who came to Rome to celebrate the feast of Saints Peter and Paul. Pope Francis has a close tie with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I, who he has met with several times since becoming pope in 2013. In fact, he was the first Patriarch of Constantinople to ever attend an installation of a pope of Rome. Francis often invites the patriarch to join him on historical occasions and has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.

While the two leaders share a great rapport, the two great churches of the East and West are still separated after almost a millennium. Pope Francis is building upon the foundation of rapprochement laid by all the popes going back to Pope Saint John XXIII who called for an Ecumenical Council aimed at modernizing the church and healing the divisions of Christianity. While they were together on a joint pilgrimage to the Holy Land, they discussed the possibility of an “ecumenical synod” in 2025 to mark the 1,700th anniversary of the Great Council of Nicaea.
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If the Church of St. Peter's in Rome and that dedicated in Constantinople to St. Andrew are to walk together again as brothers in the Lord one day, an Ecumenical Council to reunite the Churches will certainly be necessary? Would 2025 be an opportune time for the Successor of St. Peter and the Ecumenical Patriarch to meet for a joint synod?

http://catholicstarherald.org/catholic-and-orthodox-journeying-toward-unity/

Quote
Back in June, Pope Francis met with a delegation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople who came to Rome to celebrate the feast of Saints Peter and Paul. Pope Francis has a close tie with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I, who he has met with several times since becoming pope in 2013. In fact, he was the first Patriarch of Constantinople to ever attend an installation of a pope of Rome. Francis often invites the patriarch to join him on historical occasions and has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.

While the two leaders share a great rapport, the two great churches of the East and West are still separated after almost a millennium. Pope Francis is building upon the foundation of rapprochement laid by all the popes going back to Pope Saint John XXIII who called for an Ecumenical Council aimed at modernizing the church and healing the divisions of Christianity. While they were together on a joint pilgrimage to the Holy Land, they discussed the possibility of an “ecumenical synod” in 2025 to mark the 1,700th anniversary of the Great Council of Nicaea.

My guess would be that if it really did happen it would just result in a bunch of splinter "traditionalist" groups on both sides, so I'm not really sure to what extent the endeavor is even worth it. Though I feel that way about most ecumenism, really.
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Offline The young fogey

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Almost everybody here knows this, but for the newbs, the Patriarch of Constantinople isn't "the Orthodox Pope" as Fr. Wallace seems to imply, a common mistake.

Traditionalist splinters? Probably. Or has just about everybody who wanted to splinter off done so?

Real reunion: one side would give in to the other on divorce and marriage and on contraception, and all of one side's bishops would go over together. I think I agree with most members that this is extremely unlikely.
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Offline Sharbel

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All popes, from PVI to FI, publicly admitted that their very own office is the greatest impediment to union with the Orthodox Churches.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Thing is: after sixty years of preliminaries the Orthodox couldn't even get all the local Orthodox churches to meet together, what are the chances everyone would get together for a reunion council involving Catholics? 

Offline Alpha60

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Thing is: after sixty years of preliminaries the Orthodox couldn't even get all the local Orthodox churches to meet together, what are the chances everyone would get together for a reunion council involving Catholics?

The EP might restore communion, some other local churches might break communion with them, the EP might retaliate by trying to revoke their autocephaly and filing lawsuits, which they would probably lose, some schisms might occur, and all of the monasteries on Mount Athos would fly black flags.  The bit about “modernizing the church” in particular sends a chill down my spine.

I would love Orthodox-RC reunion, but not like this, not negotiated between the current Pope and the current Ecumenical Patriarch.  Also, it would be a travesty to reunite the EOs with Rome before achieving EO-OO and Orthodox-Assyrian reunification.  Let there be one Orthodox Eastern Communion of Byzantines, Miaphysites and Assyrians, with a stronger Western Rite, and perhaps a few EC churches who seem obsessed with restoring communion with us (the Melkites and Chaldeans, for instance) encouraged to do so and break communion with Rome in the process, let Rome shrink a bit more, and then let an Orthodox Patriarch with a deep knowledge of the West open negotiations for the restoration of the Roman Catholic Orthodox Church as part of the Communion.
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Back in June, Pope Francis met with a delegation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople who came to Rome to celebrate the feast of Saints Peter and Paul. Pope Francis has a close tie with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I, who he has met with several times since becoming pope in 2013. In fact, he was the first Patriarch of Constantinople to ever attend an installation of a pope of Rome. Francis often invites the patriarch to join him on historical occasions and has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.
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Francis often invites the patriarch to join him on historical occasions and has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.
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has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.
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Holy Phanar
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Almost everybody here knows this, but for the newbs, the Patriarch of Constantinople isn't "the Orthodox Pope" as Fr. Wallace seems to imply, a common mistake.

Traditionalist splinters? Probably. Or has just about everybody who wanted to splinter off done so?

Real reunion: one side would give in to the other on divorce and marriage and on contraception, and all of one side's bishops would go over together. I think I agree with most members that this is extremely unlikely.

I think that everybody who wanted to splinter over the extended fallout from VII and the new calendar/Pat. Athenagoras/"Sergianism", respectively, has already done so. Reunion with Orthodoxy would be a whole new can of worms, almost as disruptive as if Pope Francis suddenly okayed gay marriage.

I agree with your assessment of what real reunion would entail and that it's unlikely.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 06:54:06 AM by Volnutt »
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Orthodox-Assyrian reunification.

Which is itself a pig's eye. EO-OO is slightly more likely, but still probably won't happen.

Let there be one Orthodox Eastern Communion of Byzantines, Miaphysites and Assyrians, with a stronger Western Rite, and perhaps a few EC churches who seem obsessed with restoring communion with us (the Melkites and Chaldeans, for instance) encouraged to do so and break communion with Rome in the process, let Rome shrink a bit more, and then let an Orthodox Patriarch with a deep knowledge of the West open negotiations for the restoration of the Roman Catholic Orthodox Church as part of the Communion.

Not really "reunion" in the commonly meant sense, more a mass conversion.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 06:52:57 AM by Volnutt »
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Back in June, Pope Francis met with a delegation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople who came to Rome to celebrate the feast of Saints Peter and Paul. Pope Francis has a close tie with the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, Bartholomew I, who he has met with several times since becoming pope in 2013. In fact, he was the first Patriarch of Constantinople to ever attend an installation of a pope of Rome. Francis often invites the patriarch to join him on historical occasions and has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.
Quote
Francis often invites the patriarch to join him on historical occasions and has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.
Quote
has visited the Holy Phanar in Constantinople for a Divine Liturgy celebrated by Bartholomew.
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Holy Phanar

Will you just stop?  Your constant, ungrateful belittling of the Ecumenical Patriarchate is destructive to piety.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

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I'm just upset I haven't had the chance to visit. I've been to the Holy 79th Street, and even the Holy Syosset, but never the Holy Phanar.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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I'm just upset I haven't had the chance to visit. I've been to the Holy 79th Street, and even the Holy Syosset, but never the Holy Phanar.

But St Vladimir's Seminary is still just St Vladimir's Seminary...

Offline Iconodule

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I'm just upset I haven't had the chance to visit. I've been to the Holy 79th Street, and even the Holy Syosset, but never the Holy Phanar.

But St Vladimir's Seminary is still just St Vladimir's Seminary...

The Holy Yonkers.
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Offline Alpha60

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I'm just upset I haven't had the chance to visit. I've been to the Holy 79th Street, and even the Holy Syosset, but never the Holy Phanar.

But St Vladimir's Seminary is still just St Vladimir's Seminary...

The Holy Yonkers.

I saw the Yonkers town marching band in New York City once, performing for no apparent reason at the Sikh Day Parade, which was itself interesting to watch.  Quite a large number of turbans.  Alas, the band wasn’t very good; at one point they messed up a measure in the simple Sousa march they were playing and the conductor blew his whistle and had them start again, which looked very bad; it would have been better to keep playing and hope no one noticed.  To add insult to injury, the conductor had a particularly nerdy appearance.

That said, I was under the impression that SVS was a safe distance from Yonkers possible.  And hopefully there are gatekeepers to keep the dorky incompetent marching band from randomly parading through the campus.  Although, having to endure such a disruption would be an excellent form of ascetic formation for the seminarians; if you could tolerate that, you might well have a promising future as a stylite.  :P
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Offline Vanhyo

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one side would give in to the other on divorce and marriage and on contraception
RCs are chasing shadows with this type of accusations.

It is far more likely that trad-cats are getting in line for annulments so they can "piously" eat wafers every week.
Thing is: after sixty years of preliminaries the Orthodox couldn't even get all the local Orthodox churches to meet together, what are the chances everyone would get together for a reunion council involving Catholics?
This is not fair... that robber council was forced to us by outside, by the world and its ruler. Most did not come, many who came did not sign, this alone reveals enough.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 04:48:37 PM by Vanhyo »

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You really want to waste your breath getting worked up over history's least effectual council?


I wish I had your excess energy, man...
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We should start a campaign to get it declared a robber council or something!
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Offline Vanhyo

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We should start a campaign to get it declared a robber council or something!
By who ? There is no emperor to restrain, and the globalist have their puppet bishops promoting the one world religion, preparing the way for the one world ruler.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 02:59:00 AM by Vanhyo »

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We should start a campaign to get it declared a robber council or something!
By who ? There is no emperor to restrain, and the globalist have their puppet bishops promoting the one world religion, preparing the way for the one world ruler.

Relax, Alex Jones. He was just making fun of me for a stupid post in another thread.
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We should start a campaign to get it declared a robber council or something!
By who ? There is no emperor to restrain, and the globalist have their puppet bishops promoting the one world religion, preparing the way for the one world ruler.

Relax, Alex Jones. He was just making fun of me for a stupid post in another thread.
:)
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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We should start a campaign to get it declared a robber council or something!
By who ? There is no emperor to restrain, and the globalist have their puppet bishops promoting the one world religion, preparing the way for the one world ruler.

Relax, Alex Jones. He was just making fun of me for a stupid post in another thread.

I know that I might kill all kinds of credibility in terms of my legitimacy of opinions by saying this - but is it really so "out-there" to think that we're, unfortunately, heading in that direction?

As a student who has taken courses on International Theory, many Liberals (as in, International Theory Liberals, not Political Liberals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_(international_relations) ) advocate for a greater implementation of Collective Security (United Nations Cooperation) and a forced placement of liberal (American) values - and even a portion of Realists, who believe that the best solution to the problem of International Anarchy is the establishment of a World Government above the governments, I can say that such an idea doesn't only exist within the realms of online conspiracy theorists.

And considering that globalism is an idea that is on the constant increase over time, is the form of a "World Government" - at least in the form of a more robust United Nations that actually accomplishes things - a thing that is way beyond the realms of possibility?

Now, like anybody who has a rudimentary understanding of politics, I recognize the fact that there is a direct relationship between the amount of power necessary / authoritarianism and the size of the country in question (this can easily be seen historically; compare the authoritarianism of the Roman Empire to the Roman Republic; compare the authoritarianism of Imperial Russia to other Western European countries at the time; compare the United States's federal authoritarianism in 1800 to now) so in order for such a "World Government" to be effective, it needs to be rather despotic in its power - and considering the moral values which decay over time as well, I can see this as easily being problematic particularly for Traditional Christians or those who seek a sense of individuality, in an international community which has rejected such vital values and beliefs in Christ and / or God.

Whether or not such an idea attempting to be propagated by the Freemasons, or some complex network of Satanists - or maybe just some billionaires who will be gluttonous for power until it collapses on them - or just the devil trying to get people to believe the most important thing in life is an earthly utopia - that is a separate subject. To say that such a theory is completely out of the possibility for the future I think is incorrect.

I don't see it happening too soon - as someone who is more of a Realist myself, good-luck trying to get the United States to give up their power monopoly on the world - unless they are in full compliance and will be the kings of such a new order.

When it comes to a "one-world religion," I think that - if not propagated by Satanic or Masonic societies, it is most likely a result of the devil forcing men to realize that worldly cares are of most importance and not Christ.

How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know, but I know for certain that I don't want to witness this terrible tribulation.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 08:54:42 PM by LivenotoneviL »
I'm done.

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I don't deny the existence of globalism. But given the impotence of the UN and the way that the EU is falling apart, I don't think it's quite as unidirectional as Vanhyo likely does. I also don't think that glad-handing clergy/public intellectuals are devious and intelligent enough to seriously organize a move to world government like you describe. It's mostly pie in the sky dreams on their part.

The only New World Order worth worrying about, if that, is the one led by McDonalds and Wal-Mart. It's also one that doesn't much care one way or the other whether governments, societies, or religions claim to be united.

The rest of this will likely get too political.
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Offline Xavier

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There is no real reason not to have a Council. In the 13th and 15th century, travel was hard, communication difficult, danger of Islamist Turkish invasion ever-present etc. Today, most of those threats are remote and travel is much easier. Let the Greek Orthodox representatives come to Council with us, and we will prove our Faith again, from Scripture and Tradition, as we did at Lyons II and Florence. Orthodox cannot really give a consistent basis for determining truth in a Council. Is Papal presidency a necessary arbiter? Is at least episcopal consensus sufficient? Both were certainly present at those two Councils and would be present today. Is it a free-for-all where laity can pick and choose what canons and dogmas to accept or not? Surely not, for the indefectibility of the Church resides in the episcopate, after the Pope. Let the Orthodox come and let it be a serious dogmatic Council focused on doctrine, we can prove each of the dogmas we believe, Filioque, Immaculate Conception, Petrine Supremacy, Purgatorial Fire etc from several patristic authorities.
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Hasn't ecumenical dialog been going on for decades now? Why would calling it a council make anything any more conclusive?

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Orthodox cannot really give a consistent basis for determining truth in a Council.

Why would they want to show up to a council if people like you are just going to insult their intelligence when they get there? "Welcome, brothers! Now, stop being stupid and believe everything we tell you!" Would you expect Catholic bishops to respond well to that kind of treatment from the Orthodox?
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Offline Xavier

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Nope, nobody said or would say "believe everything we tell you." We will prove it from Scripture and Tradition. But there must be a norm for a Council to take place. Either (1) Papal presidency serves as an arbiter, with Roman legates presiding as they historically did or (2) Episcopal consensus is necessary, when documents are put up to vote, they are determined by majority consensus or (3) both, or something like that. Otherwise, discussions will be interminable, as often they currently are.
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Nope, nobody said or would say "believe everything we tell you." We will prove it from Scripture and Tradition.

Six of one half dozen of the other, especially if you insist that only Magisterium-approved interpretations are valid. It's called stacking the deck and is the same basic reason that discussions between Rome and Protestants almost never get anywhere.

But there must be a norm for a Council to take place. Either (1) Papal presidency serves as an arbiter, with Roman legates presiding as they historically did or (2) Episcopal consensus is necessary, when documents are put up to vote, they are determined by majority consensus or (3) both, or something like that. Otherwise, discussions will be interminable, as often they currently are.

Well, there's never going to be any agreement on that, so why even call for a council in the first place?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 02:50:42 AM by Volnutt »
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Papal presidency serves as an arbiter, with Roman legates presiding as they historically did...

Oh, like the 5th Ecumenical Council, where not one Papal legate was present and was held against the express wishes of the Pope (which you know because of my constant reference to it on that other site).

Or, if Papal presence equivocates to indefectability, then surely Ephesus II must be infallible! And so must the 8th General Council of 879, in which the Papal legates signed and approved everything! As did probably the Pope himself (although of course this is a debate... the good ole forgery accusation)

It's interesting how post-schism there hasn't been any Robber Councils in the Roman Catholic Church...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 06:04:41 AM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline 123abc

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There is no real reason not to have a Council.

Sure there is: the Vatican will not recant of its heresy because it would mean admitting that they went astray long ago. Rome never repents, they just try to obscure.

Let the Greek Orthodox representatives come to Council with us, and we will prove our Faith again, from Scripture and Tradition

Scripture and Tradition cannot help you since those doctrines which divide us have been shown to be novelties not supported by Scripture or Tradition. All of your quoting of Matthew 16:18, absurdly claiming that Acts 15 somehow supports papal infallibility or Patristic quote mining will not support your assertions.


Orthodox cannot really give a consistent basis for determining truth in a Council. Is Papal presidency a necessary arbiter? Is at least episcopal consensus sufficient?

When all else fails, pull out the epistemological argument. Strangely the Orthodox have managed to maintain the Faith and practice of the Church all while separated from Her 'head'. In the meantime Rome continues to add to, change and completely overhaul its beliefs and practices depending on what century we find ourselves in. As I heard one priest put it: Papalism is not 'backward compatible.' A Catholic from 1950 would in no way recognize the Catholic faith or mass if they were dropped into your typical parish today. An Irish Catholic in 1850 would not understand or probably agree with papal infallibility.(I say Irish Catholic because a popular catechism used in Ireland just before Vatican I called papal infallibility a 'Protestant slur'): https://forums.catholic.com/t/stephen-keenans-catechism-and-infallibility-prior-to-1870/164140


Is it a free-for-all where laity can pick and choose what canons and dogmas to accept or not? Surely not, for the indefectibility of the Church resides in the episcopate, after the Pope.

Refresh my memory: Do you attend masses of the SSPX?

Let the Orthodox come and let it be a serious dogmatic Council focused on doctrine, we can prove each of the dogmas we believe, Filioque, Immaculate Conception, Petrine Supremacy, Purgatorial Fire etc from several patristic authorities.

No, Rome can't.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:11:14 AM by 123abc »

Offline Lepanto

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Speculating about a Council is useless. The Orthodox are simply not ready for that considering all their internal infighting.
As pointed out above, Crete has shown at least one thing: They are currently not in a shape or unwilling to meet even without any Catholic interference.
Unfortunately, the Catholic church is equally totally not ready for it. We both need to sort out a few important things first,
before such a Council could even be thought of. There are so many things happening right now which could derail any
attempt in that direction. So much would depend on the next bishops of Rome, Constantinople, Moscow.
Even if all those problems disappeared somehow "magically",
I am highly skeptical about the chances for success and more than a bit concerned about the possible dangers.
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Offline Sharbel

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Is Papal presidency a necessary arbiter? Is at least episcopal consensus sufficient? Both were certainly present at those two Councils and would be present today.
Yet neither were present in all the Ecumenical Councils of the first millennium, which the Roman Church accepts too.
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Offline Sharbel

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There is no real reason not to have a Council.
There is no reason to have a Council.  There hasn't been a good reason in the West to have a Council since Trent, but it seems to have become an intra mural sport in the Vatican.

A Catholic from 1950 would in no way recognize the Catholic faith or mass if they were dropped into your typical parish today.
A Catholic from one diocese might not recognize the Catholic faith or mass if he attended liturgy at another diocese.  Heck, it's not even certain if he attended liturgy across the same town or even in his own parish at another time!

Surely not, for the indefectibility of the Church resides in the episcopate, after the Pope.
No, Catholic bishops are de facto chorbishops, with the Pope of Rome remaining as the sole bishop, if St. Ignatius of Antioch was right (cf. Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, VIII).  For the Catholic Church is not where a bishop is, but whether he's a chorbishop of the bishop of Rome.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Is Papal presidency a necessary arbiter? Is at least episcopal consensus sufficient? Both were certainly present at those two Councils and would be present today.
Yet neither were present in all the Ecumenical Councils of the first millennium, which the Roman Church accepts too.


They do argue that the Papal Legate served as the authority of the Roman Pontiff... although not all the Ecumenical Councils had a Papal Legate, and some Councils which had a Papal Legate that accepted the decisions nonetheless were rejected by Rome (879 council).
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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No, Catholic bishops are de facto chorbishops, with the Pope of Rome remaining as the sole bishop, if St. Ignatius of Antioch was right (cf. Epistle to the Smyrnaeans, VIII).  For the Catholic Church is not where a bishop is, but whether he's a chorbishop of the bishop of Rome.

"I exhort and entreat that not one of you ever accept this name (universal bishop), that not one consent to it, that not one write it, that not one admit it wherever it may have been written, or add his subscription to it; but, as becomes ministers of Almighty God, that each keep himself from this kind of poisoned infection, and give no place to the cunning lier-in-wait, since this thing is being done to the injury and rendering asunder of the whole Church, and, as we have said, to the condemning of all of you. For if one, as he supposes, is universal bishop, it remains that you are not bishops."

-Pope Saint Gregory the Great, Book 9 Epistle 68
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:24:58 AM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Sharbel

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...

-Pope Saint Gregory the Great, Book 9 Epistle 68
As it was stated by a pope, it's infallible Catholic doctrine, right?  Wait...
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Offline Porter ODoran

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There is no real reason not to have a Council. In the 13th and 15th century, travel was hard, communication difficult, danger of Islamist Turkish invasion ever-present etc. Today, most of those threats are remote and travel is much easier. Let the Greek Orthodox representatives come to Council with us, and we will prove our Faith again, from Scripture and Tradition, as we did at Lyons II and Florence. Orthodox cannot really give a consistent basis for determining truth in a Council. Is Papal presidency a necessary arbiter? Is at least episcopal consensus sufficient? Both were certainly present at those two Councils and would be present today. Is it a free-for-all where laity can pick and choose what canons and dogmas to accept or not? Surely not, for the indefectibility of the Church resides in the episcopate, after the Pope. Let the Orthodox come and let it be a serious dogmatic Council focused on doctrine, we can prove each of the dogmas we believe, Filioque, Immaculate Conception, Petrine Supremacy, Purgatorial Fire etc from several patristic authorities.

You have a robust imagination.
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Offline Vanhyo

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 01:08:35 PM by Vanhyo »

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Offline Vanhyo

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Post of the year.
It was inappropriate to joke about things which are rather tragic, so i deleted the content of my post.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Post of the year.
It was inappropriate to joke about things which are rather tragic, so i deleted the content of my post.

I didn't get to read your post before you replaced it with that hyphen. 

I was nominating the hyphen for "post of the year". 

Offline WPM

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I don't like the OP or thread title
The Sign and Prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary

Offline Mor Ephrem

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I don't like the OP or thread title

I don't like your post.

Offline Rohzek

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The article and the OP are just doing nothing more than mere hand waving. A waste of time. The era of great councils is over. It won't happen again.
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Offline Vanhyo

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I don't like the OP or thread title
Xavier seem like a nice person with good intentions, he just doesn't realize some things..

Offline ZackShenouda439

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Thing is: after sixty years of preliminaries the Orthodox couldn't even get all the local Orthodox churches to meet together, what are the chances everyone would get together for a reunion council involving Catholics?

The EP might restore communion, some other local churches might break communion with them, the EP might retaliate by trying to revoke their autocephaly and filing lawsuits, which they would probably lose, some schisms might occur, and all of the monasteries on Mount Athos would fly black flags.  The bit about “modernizing the church” in particular sends a chill down my spine.

I would love Orthodox-RC reunion, but not like this, not negotiated between the current Pope and the current Ecumenical Patriarch.  Also, it would be a travesty to reunite the EOs with Rome before achieving EO-OO and Orthodox-Assyrian reunification.  Let there be one Orthodox Eastern Communion of Byzantines, Miaphysites and Assyrians, with a stronger Western Rite, and perhaps a few EC churches who seem obsessed with restoring communion with us (the Melkites and Chaldeans, for instance) encouraged to do so and break communion with Rome in the process, let Rome shrink a bit more, and then let an Orthodox Patriarch with a deep knowledge of the West open negotiations for the restoration of the Roman Catholic Orthodox Church as part of the Communion.

In my opinion I wouldn't call EO achieving reunion with RCC before the OO to be a travesty, but it would be entertaining to observe how such a union would operate. of course, this likely won't happen in our life-time, mostly because I don't see the EO accepting the RCC doctrine of papal infallibility anytime soon & I don't see the RCC giving that up anytime soon. what's funny is the OO-EO schism predates the EO-RCC schism yet there is significantly more difference between RCC & EO, than between OO & EO. I always found that interesting. 

Offline Mor Ephrem

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what's funny is the OO-EO schism predates the EO-RCC schism yet there is significantly more difference between RCC & EO, than between OO & EO. I always found that interesting.

Depends on whom you ask.  There are a number of EO who believe acceptance or rejection of Chalcedon makes such a difference that they see EO and OO as more wildly different than EO and RC, and think that those who think like you and me are just being taken in by vestments and incense and long services and beards.