Author Topic: Why I don't believe in God anymore.  (Read 13701 times)

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #180 on: December 02, 2017, 11:09:28 PM »

What, was this intended to be ominous? Do you actually expect somebody to pick this apart here in the thread or do you just like hearing yourself talk?

Do you really expect from me to pay attention anymore to you when you continue your condescending attitude? Do you think you represent your Christianity (whatever Christianity that is) in a good way when you mock and belittle the concerns of those who ask? Thanks anyway, and unless you keep your attitude civil and practice what you preach, whatever you say, and no matter the fancy words you use, are of no value to me, at all.

I'm only responding to you the way that you've been responding to me and everyone else here. You've been pretty condescending yourself through much of this thread. You passed "concern" quite some time ago and entered into "attack" territory.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #181 on: December 02, 2017, 11:14:27 PM »
In conclusion from most of the posts (some of them are not related to the main point), there are more to the Bible than the words in it, and there is more to Christianity than the Bible. As difficult as the verses that include murder and rape are, they shouldn't be the only basis for someone to deny God's existence. The issue is not as simple as "This is too awful, I can't believe in God anymore". However, my reasons for not believing in God are not limited to these verses. There are reasons related to Jesus himself, to the NT, and to the Early Church.  There is a lot going on during Jesus's time and the Early Church that is "suspicious". Issues related to the verses that are claimed to be a prophecy about Jesus, actually not being about Jesus. Add to that, the idea of a God itself, Heaven, Hell, The Fall of mankind from some higher level, Angels, Devil, and the rest are all issues that cause me trouble and make me conclude that such ideas are manmade, and expected from a time when the knowledge we have today didn't exist back them.


Francis Bacon, yielded significant contribution on the modern scientific method. He’s even been called “the father of the scientific method” & “the father of empiricism.” He was also a Anglican. He died around the 17th century. He had some things to say about atheism:

"I HAD rather believe all the fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind. And therefore, God never wrought miracle, to convince atheism, because his ordinary works convince it. It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men’s minds about to religion. For while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them, confederate and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity. Nay, even that school which is most accused of atheism doth most demonstrate religion; that is, the school of Leucippus and Democritus and Epicurus. For it is a thousand times more credible, that four mutable elements, and one immutable fifth essence, duly and eternally placed, need no God, than that an army of infinite small portions, or seeds unplaced, should have produced this order and beauty, without a divine marshal. The Scripture saith, The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God; it is not said, The fool hath thought in his heart; so as he rather saith it, by rote to himself, as that he would have, than that he can thoroughly believe it, or be persuaded of it. For none deny, there is a God, but those, for whom it maketh that there were no God. It appeareth in nothing more, that atheism is rather in the lip, than in the heart of man, than by this; that atheists will ever be talking of that their opinion, as if they fainted in it, within themselves, and would be glad to be strengthened, by the consent of others."


Also, gonna challenge your materialism again

"A quantum physicist at Chungbuk National University in Korea has provided mathematical evidence that consciousness cannot be simulated in or replicated by a computer, and in turn that it cannot be the byproduct of neurological activity in the brain.”

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/quantum-physicist-consciousness-arises-outside-brain
That might  be so. However a moderate to good grasp of philology and history tends to discredit the Bible and implicitly the God it talks about. Otherwise a philosophers' god is still possible.
"I saw a miracle where 2 people entered church one by baptism and one by chrismation. On pictures the one received by full baptism was shinning in light the one by chrismation no."

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #182 on: December 02, 2017, 11:32:34 PM »
Maybe if you insist on "fundamentalism or nothing."
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Ray1

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #183 on: December 02, 2017, 11:36:58 PM »

What, was this intended to be ominous? Do you actually expect somebody to pick this apart here in the thread or do you just like hearing yourself talk?

Do you really expect from me to pay attention anymore to you when you continue your condescending attitude? Do you think you represent your Christianity (whatever Christianity that is) in a good way when you mock and belittle the concerns of those who ask? Thanks anyway, and unless you keep your attitude civil and practice what you preach, whatever you say, and no matter the fancy words you use, are of no value to me, at all.

I'm only responding to you the way that you've been responding to me and everyone else here. You've been pretty condescending yourself through much of this thread. You passed "concern" quite some time ago and entered into "attack" territory.

If my posts seemed to indicate a condescending attitude towards people, then I do apologize. There are times when I expect an attack on me on this forum from a previous experience which creates in me this feeling of being ready to attack back. But I do sincerely apologize if I attacked you or those who did no harm. As for my harsh criticism of Christianity, I tried to be as transparent as I can so that you may understand what I'm trying to say, but I realize it probably came out as an attack rather than being honest about how I feel. Anyway, in a future thread, I do hope such incidents don't happen.

Offline Ray1

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #184 on: December 02, 2017, 11:40:05 PM »
Ok. See "Non-Computability of Consciousness" by Daegene Song


"With the great success in simulating many intelligent behaviors using computing devices, there has been an ongoing debate whether all conscious activities are computational processes. In this paper, the answer to this question is shown to be no. A certain phenomenon of consciousness is demonstrated to be fully represented as a computational process using a quantum computer. Based on the computability criterion discussed with Turing machines, the model constructed is shown to necessarily involve a non-computable element. The concept that this is solely a quantum effect and does not work for a classical case is also discussed."

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4d87/aff639f43e2d74acfc2c6eb8053cb19fe687.pdf

Now that's better :) I'm ready to leave my naturalist materialist conclusion if it became clear to me that they're false, but as Augustine said, that doesn't prove God's existence, and certainly not the God of Christianity.

Offline Ray1

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #185 on: December 02, 2017, 11:42:50 PM »
Maybe if you insist on "fundamentalism or nothing."

Not sure about that, because proving a soul, spirit world, and afterlife exist, doesn't mean God exists. Majority of Unaffiliated Americans are spirituals, they believe in some sort of spirit and even a God, but not the classical Theism God.

Offline RobS

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #186 on: December 02, 2017, 11:46:34 PM »
That might  be so. However a moderate to good grasp of philology and history tends to discredit the Bible and implicitly the God it talks about. Otherwise a philosophers' god is still possible.
I'd much rather trust the living God as described in the Bible rather than some passionless, bloodless indifferent abstraction thought up by philosophers.

I'll take a God who takes on my condition and gets nailed to a cross over some Unmoved Mover any day of the week.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Ray1

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #187 on: December 02, 2017, 11:50:30 PM »
That might  be so. However a moderate to good grasp of philology and history tends to discredit the Bible and implicitly the God it talks about. Otherwise a philosophers' god is still possible.
I'd much rather trust the living God as described in the Bible rather than some passionless, bloodless indifferent abstraction thought up by philosophers.

I'll take a God who takes on my condition and gets nailed to a cross over some Unmoved Mover any day of the week.

Good for you Rob, but that doesn't work for everyone. You think we don't want a God that loves us and cares about us? I sure do, I hope and wish if there was a God, but my "intellectual" ability makes it difficult to accept the existence of God. What you said works for you, but it doesn't work as an argument for why the God of Christianity exists.

Offline RobS

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #188 on: December 03, 2017, 12:07:00 AM »
That might  be so. However a moderate to good grasp of philology and history tends to discredit the Bible and implicitly the God it talks about. Otherwise a philosophers' god is still possible.
I'd much rather trust the living God as described in the Bible rather than some passionless, bloodless indifferent abstraction thought up by philosophers.

I'll take a God who takes on my condition and gets nailed to a cross over some Unmoved Mover any day of the week.

Good for you Rob, but that doesn't work for everyone. You think we don't want a God that loves us and cares about us? I sure do, I hope and wish if there was a God, but my "intellectual" ability makes it difficult to accept the existence of God. What you said works for you, but it doesn't work as an argument for why the God of Christianity exists.

My point to augustin was a God worth devoting one's entire life to. Just because some clever philosopher can come up with some "irrefutable" argument for the existence of God, I couldn't give a fig about it. Big deal.

You're right that Christianity doesn't work for everyone.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline ZackShenouda439

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #189 on: December 03, 2017, 12:22:45 AM »
In my view, finding reasons to discredit the bible based on modern historical methodology/modern standards for historical documentation, doesn’t discredit Christianity.these modern methodologies/standards didn't exist in the ancient world. Scripture wasn't meant to be read/used in the same way we read/use modern history/science textbooks. Thus I'd say assigning such standards to scripture is akin to suggesting  that historical documentation from antiquity must meet the standards of the scientific method for it to be credible.

Overall, I believe Christianity shall prevail over modern attempts to discredit the bible because the holy sprit doesn’t begin and end at the bible.  St.Ignatius of Antioch practiced christianity & he died before publication of NT canon. For we believe God the Word became flesh not text. So I say to atheists, get used to the presence Christianity. It has survived for over 2000 years and will continue to do so. Christianity is unstoppable.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #190 on: December 03, 2017, 11:09:56 AM »
Maybe if you insist on "fundamentalism or nothing."

Not sure about that, because proving a soul, spirit world, and afterlife exist, doesn't mean God exists. Majority of Unaffiliated Americans are spirituals, they believe in some sort of spirit and even a God, but not the classical Theism God.

My point was something similar to what Zack said.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #191 on: December 03, 2017, 11:13:36 AM »

What, was this intended to be ominous? Do you actually expect somebody to pick this apart here in the thread or do you just like hearing yourself talk?

Do you really expect from me to pay attention anymore to you when you continue your condescending attitude? Do you think you represent your Christianity (whatever Christianity that is) in a good way when you mock and belittle the concerns of those who ask? Thanks anyway, and unless you keep your attitude civil and practice what you preach, whatever you say, and no matter the fancy words you use, are of no value to me, at all.

I'm only responding to you the way that you've been responding to me and everyone else here. You've been pretty condescending yourself through much of this thread. You passed "concern" quite some time ago and entered into "attack" territory.

If my posts seemed to indicate a condescending attitude towards people, then I do apologize. There are times when I expect an attack on me on this forum from a previous experience which creates in me this feeling of being ready to attack back. But I do sincerely apologize if I attacked you or those who did no harm. As for my harsh criticism of Christianity, I tried to be as transparent as I can so that you may understand what I'm trying to say, but I realize it probably came out as an attack rather than being honest about how I feel. Anyway, in a future thread, I do hope such incidents don't happen.

That and the "please refute this huge Gish gallop or critique that would take 1000 words to even begin to properly answer" followed by "I don't have time to actually respond to what you said." Makes you look disingenuous and only interested in metaphorically peeing on the walls here.

But I'm willing to let bygones be bygones and admit that I was probably less than charitable at points too. I'm sorry.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline krajisnik

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #192 on: December 04, 2017, 07:42:26 AM »
Good for you Rob, but that doesn't work for everyone. You think we don't want a God that loves us and cares about us? I sure do, I hope and wish if there was a God, but my "intellectual" ability makes it difficult to accept the existence of God. What you said works for you, but it doesn't work as an argument for why the God of Christianity exists.

Firstly, we have the New testament. And it is the last "legal book" that we should take in account.

Secondly, try to explain yourself the existence of evil – as atheist. If you don't agree that evil exist, that is really the last step toward nothing. But please, go sit down in an empty space, undisturbed, and explain "evil" to yourself. If you are a pure atheist, how does evil happen? Is it in personal level? Sociological level? Is it in chemical level, genetic, atomic, physic, quantum? I just can't get it that gravitation, light, protons, electrons and neutrons are inherently the main constrains for evil.

What about other things such as love, soul, life?

The reason why I am constantly kept religious, and inside of the Orthodox Christian faith, is the existence of evil in our world. I can't explain it by any other mean than by the Eternal Justice.
And not only that. I see that the post powerful forces on our planet are not non-religious or atheists. The political powers are very very religious, and I see that they are deeply involved in crimes, for decades. They are very religious, in their own occult religions and cults, and the only way to go against them and protect your soul is to believe in Christ, and trust our Church. There is really no other way.

BTW, when I was 16 my intellectual abilities were at least 145IQ, so I can't say I am not intellectual. But I can't get it logical otherwise the things above.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #193 on: December 04, 2017, 04:26:56 PM »
Quote

Now, it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful [as a babelfish] could have evolved purely by chance that some have chosen to see it as the final proof of the NON-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:


"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. QED"

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/God


The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why I don't believe in God anymore.
« Reply #194 on: December 04, 2017, 04:35:54 PM »
Personally I find Adams a tad pretentious, but you forgot the part about the zebra crossing.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.