Author Topic: Romfea.gr - They were screaming unworthy at the Patriarch and Appointed Bishop  (Read 1646 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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(Via Google Translate)

The patriarch of Antioch, Ioannis, in Lebanon, was struck by the intense disapproval of the flock.

Specifically, at the entrance of Patriarch John in the Church of Our Lady of Balamand, the faithful cried in Arabic "ANAXIOS" for both him and the appointed Bishop Ioannis Tappas.

http://www.romfea.gr/patriarxeia-ts/patriarxeio-antioxeias/18172-sok-fonazan-anajios-se-patriarxi-kai-epsifismeno-episkopo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuPRkMPws3E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Bd-xgv7oE
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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both him and the appointed Bishop Ioannis Tappas.

Google translated it as "imprisoned" rather than "appointed"  :-\  Also courtesy of Google:

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the disapproval was the decision of the Patriarch to "exile" Mount Athos Panteleimon Farah for Mount Athos for two years.

What's it all about?

Offline Dominika

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I was going to post this on oc.net, as last days I saw on various Arab Orthodox FB pages commentaries غير مستحق (ghayr mustahiqq - unworthy) regarding the info about the bishop chirotony of archimandrite Youhanna Batsh (يوحنا بطش). Research on Google in Arabic doesn't show anything; the unique thing I noticed it that indeed the action of writing and shouting tonight "unworthy" was started on the FB page لرفع الظلم عن الارشمندريت المتوحد بندلايمون فرح ("For  carrying down shadow from archimandrite recluse Panteleimon Farah"). It seems that archimandrite Youhanna (bishop-elect) was enaged into an issue against archimandrite Panteleimon and that the second one claims that the first one has been rewarded by bishopric because of this activity. But I have found nothing more...
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Offline Porter ODoran

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I was going to post this on oc.net, as last days I saw on various Arab Orthodox FB pages commentaries غير مستحق (ghayr mustahiqq - unworthy) regarding the info about the bishop chirotony of archimandrite Youhanna Batsh (يوحنا بطش). Research on Google in Arabic doesn't show anything; the unique thing I noticed it that indeed the action of writing and shouting tonight "unworthy" was started on the FB page لرفع الظلم عن الارشمندريت المتوحد بندلايمون فرح ("For  carrying down shadow from archimandrite recluse Panteleimon Farah"). It seems that archimandrite Youhanna (bishop-elect) was enaged into an issue against archimandrite Panteleimon and that the second one claims that the first one has been rewarded by bishopric because of this activity. But I have found nothing more...

The shouting was a Facebook campaign? Lord, have mercy.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonis

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If only the body of believers were so attentive everywhere. Bishops ought only be ordained with the consent of the people.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 08:37:53 PM by Antonis »
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For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Porter ODoran

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If only the body of believers were so attentive everywhere. Bishops ought only be ordained with the consent of the people.

I see what you mean -- "Who oversees the overseer?" -- altho in my opinion, as Herodotus writes, democracy is only an invitation to conspiracy. These muckraking church-news tabloids are proof enough how the mob is very easily goaded in any direction.

On the other hand, the Apostolic expectation was perhaps much higher even than your democratic oversight, viz.:

Quote from: St. Paul
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonis

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The people have a good track record on that.

St. John Chrysostom, St. Ambrose, St. Photios, St. Nektarios, St. Mark of Ephesus, Met. Augoustinos of Florina... The same is true for the majority of holy hierarchs.

Mine wasn't a statement of opinion, though. It is the belief of the Church.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 09:39:17 PM by Antonis »
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For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Porter ODoran

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Mine wasn't a statement of opinion, though. It is the belief of the Church.

Odd, then, that you said "ought," as tho it is not the Church's practice to give the people the veto in this matter. I mean, I do not believe you are right anyway, but I'll limit myself to pointing out this inconsistency.

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The people have a good track record on that.

I see you're avoiding whether democracy is a cover for the influence of a few. Well, hoi polloi are on multiple sides of an issue, especially over time. Iconoclasm, for example, was a popular position. The Reformation in Europe was very popular. There opposites were popular as well. There was polarization of parties, and there was an ebb and a flow. I'm impressed you're able to discern some kind of track record, and glad it's an optimistic one.

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St. John Chrysostom, St. Ambrose, St. Photios, St. Nektarios, St. Mark of Ephesus, Met. Augoustinos of Florina... The same is true for the majority of holy hierarchs.

Six men -- whom I assume you are listing because they were rehabilitated in the face of hierarchical or imperial displeasure -- does not lead us to "the majority of holy heriarchs," which must number in myriads. I'm not sure your point, at this point, but it hardly seems a proved one.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonis

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The Church ought not consecrate simoniacs. It does.

The Church ought not consecrate active homosexuals. It does.

The Church ought not allow bishops to choose their successors. It does.

The Church ought not have multiple bishops over the same territory. It does.

The Church ought not ordain spiritual novices. It does.

The Church ought not tonsure men monks and allow them to run freely without any discipline. It does.

So, we see the Church does many things it ought not do according to its own custom and canons. That's always been the case.


You can read what you like into what I said, but what I said is how the Church ideally operates in its own vision. The people of a diocese nurture their sons in faith and when one of them distinguishes himself as being called to clerical life, he is offered by them for the sacrament of holy ordination. Their assent is given again by their presence at the ordination (during which they may object), and then is affirmed finally with the "axios" at the conclusion of the rite. All ordinations are prompted and/or given assent by the people of the Church. This isn't a controversial statement by any means, so I'm not sure what you're going for here. As the Eastern Patriarchs wrote in their 1848 Encyclical, "the protector of religion is the very body of the Church, even the people themselves."
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 10:56:42 PM by Antonis »
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For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline youssef

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In general this people are already against the patriarch, consider him heretical before the problem of father panteleimon.
I don't know what is exactly the problem of father panteleimon, other then  he was accused of being pedophile. But Idon't know if this is the reason of exile.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Quote from: Antonis link=topic=72748.msg1493724#msg1493724 As the Eastern Patriarchs wrote in their 1848 Encyclical, [i
"the protector of religion is the very body of the Church, even the people themselves."[/i]

This is very abstract, and I doubt even your best allies here against Constantinople would care to construe it into a catholic canon granting the laity approval of bishops.

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Their assent is given again by their presence at the ordination (during which they may object), and then is affirmed finally with the "axios" at the conclusion of the rite.

This is akin to saying the people's "Amin" is a veto on the Symbol of Faith. I think the "Axios" is important in a holistic way, and this may be the least stretched of your arguments, but let's just admit that if there were really an established practice of the Church to subject episcopal ordinations to the laity, you would have simply produced it; or, more accurately, would not even have to produce it.

And I'll point out again that your first argument was that "Bishops ought only to be ordained with the consent of the people," with nothing about how in this case this was not done, or in what way it was not done; a simple opinion. The subsequent feeling for phantom canons seems like a retreat from that opinion on its own merits. But then what merits, aside from an imagined finger in the eye of certain holy fathers, would a democratic Orthodoxy have? This is the true question.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Volnutt

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If only the body of believers were so attentive everywhere. Bishops ought only be ordained with the consent of the people.

I see what you mean -- "Who oversees the overseer?" -- altho in my opinion, as Herodotus writes, democracy is only an invitation to conspiracy. These muckraking church-news tabloids are proof enough how the mob is very easily goaded in any direction.

On the other hand, the Apostolic expectation was perhaps much higher even than your democratic oversight, viz.:

Quote from: St. Paul
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Who decides when a prospective bishop is really living up to that standard, though? Obviously the Patriarch is willing to say he does. Does that make it so?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 12:49:37 AM by Volnutt »
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Porter ODoran

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If only the body of believers were so attentive everywhere. Bishops ought only be ordained with the consent of the people.

I see what you mean -- "Who oversees the overseer?" -- altho in my opinion, as Herodotus writes, democracy is only an invitation to conspiracy. These muckraking church-news tabloids are proof enough how the mob is very easily goaded in any direction.

On the other hand, the Apostolic expectation was perhaps much higher even than your democratic oversight, viz.:

Quote from: St. Paul
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Who decides when a prospective bishop is really living up to that standard, though? Obviously the Patriarch is willing to say he does. Does that make it so?

In the Orthodox church, this sort of thing tends to be quite codified. Contrary to what you may be inferring from this thread, a bishop is not picked from a hat, or a gutter or insane asylum.

By the way, I am completely in favor of people bringing their well-founded accusations against the morality of an episcopal candidate or ordained bishop to the attention of the synod or, I suppose, even making them public. And I don't know that much about the basis of the outcry here.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Dominika

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So, according to the website of the Antiochian Patriarchate, he was ordained, but on diffrent time that it had been scheduled, to avoid more tensions.
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Offline youssef

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So, according to the website of the Antiochian Patriarchate, he was ordained, but on diffrent time that it had been scheduled, to avoid more tensions.

They did it in the night. ;D

The people who scream anaxios they had send a letter to the Antioch synod. One of the problem for them is that the church is consider chistian but norn Orthodox martyr as saint. Are they really worthy.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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So, according to the website of the Antiochian Patriarchate, he was ordained, but on diffrent time that it had been scheduled, to avoid more tensions.

They did it in the night. ;D

I love nocturnal ordinations.  They are preceded by the best stories...
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Antonis

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This is very abstract, and I doubt even your best allies here against Constantinople would care to construe it into a catholic canon granting the laity approval of bishops.
What are you talking about? What does this have to do with Constantinople? What allies? Who cited canons? Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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...or, more accurately, would not even have to produce it.
I didn't think I would have to, and I'm not going to. It's not controversial.

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And I'll point out again that your first argument was that "Bishops ought only to be ordained with the consent of the people," with nothing about how in this case this was not done, or in what way it was not done; a simple opinion.
The Patriarch of Antioch was going to consecrate (and did consecrate) a candidate whom many members of the laity objected to. Those objections ought to be addressed rather than ignored, an opinion you apparently share. What exactly about what I said is being contested here?

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The subsequent feeling for phantom canons seems like a retreat from that opinion on its own merits. But then what merits, aside from an imagined finger in the eye of certain holy fathers, would a democratic Orthodoxy have? This is the true question.
I haven't mentioned a canonical basis once, nor have I ever invoked democracy. You are reading a position into my statement and fighting a belief of your own creation. I'm not going to defend statements I haven't made and don't support. You have made a habit of this with me, and I ask you to please stop and begin taking what I say for it's face value.

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In the Orthodox church, this sort of thing tends to be quite codified.
Oh?

I'm not even going to address your ludicrous assertion that I support picking a bishop "from a hat, or a gutter or insane asylum." The rudeness is unnecessary.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 01:38:35 AM by Antonis »
Quote
For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

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Porter has been needlessly combative for a while now, and it's utterly frustrating to see.
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Volnutt

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I'm not even going to address your ludicrous assertion that I support picking a bishop "from a hat, or a gutter or insane asylum." The rudeness is unnecessary.

That was probably intended to be a slight against me.

Porter has been needlessly combative for a while now, and it's utterly frustrating to see.

I those of us who post too often all go through seasons of it, I know that I do. It'll pass.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:08:52 AM by Volnutt »
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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Porter ODoran

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This is very abstract, and I doubt even your best allies here against Constantinople would care to construe it into a catholic canon granting the laity approval of bishops.
What are you talking about? What does this have to do with Constantinople? What allies? Who cited canons? Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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...or, more accurately, would not even have to produce it.
I didn't think I would have to, and I'm not going to. It's not controversial.

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And I'll point out again that your first argument was that "Bishops ought only to be ordained with the consent of the people," with nothing about how in this case this was not done, or in what way it was not done; a simple opinion.
The Patriarch of Antioch was going to consecrate (and did consecrate) a candidate whom many members of the laity objected to. Those objections ought to be addressed rather than ignored, an opinion you apparently share. What exactly about what I said is being contested here?

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The subsequent feeling for phantom canons seems like a retreat from that opinion on its own merits. But then what merits, aside from an imagined finger in the eye of certain holy fathers, would a democratic Orthodoxy have? This is the true question.
I haven't mentioned a canonical basis once, nor have I ever invoked democracy. You are reading a position into my statement and fighting a belief of your own creation. I'm not going to defend statements I haven't made and don't support. You have made a habit of this with me, and I ask you to please stop and begin taking what I say for it's face value.

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In the Orthodox church, this sort of thing tends to be quite codified.
Oh?

I'm not even going to address your ludicrous assertion that I support picking a bishop "from a hat, or a gutter or insane asylum." The rudeness is unnecessary.

From the tone, it appears your conviction of the Church's unrighteousness is inversely proportionate to your conviction of your own.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Porter has been needlessly combative for a while now, and it's utterly frustrating to see.

My brief typed comments grate on you -- no, utterly frustrate you -- but others' screaming (to quote the OP) at a holy father does not discomfort you? So we see how much of perception is a matter of predisposition.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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One of the problem for them is that the church is consider chistian but norn Orthodox martyr as saint. Are they really worthy.

This is more of a problem for them than that the replaced hierarch of whom they are such Facebook fans was allegedly a pedophile?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonis

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From the tone, it appears your conviction of the Church's unrighteousness is inversely proportionate to your conviction of your own.
I still don't understand where you're coming from vis-a-vis my post, (frankly, it just seems like a resort to ad hominem) but I will say the Church is simultaneously the pure and spotless bride and the harlot seeking redemption. Taking a monophysitic approach to the nature of the Church will only lead to sorrow and disappointment.

You might like the following article: https://www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/two-images-of-the-church-and-why-they-should-not-be-confused/

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For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Porter ODoran

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From the tone, it appears your conviction of the Church's unrighteousness is inversely proportionate to your conviction of your own.
I still don't understand where you're coming from vis-a-vis my post, (frankly, it just seems like a resort to ad hominem) but I will say the Church is simultaneously the pure and spotless bride and the harlot seeking redemption. Taking a monophysitic approach to the nature of the Church will only lead to sorrow and disappointment.

You might like the following article: https://www.orthodoxartsjournal.org/two-images-of-the-church-and-why-they-should-not-be-confused/

What the Universal Church is not is an Amish macro-community whose very foundations are threatened if one does not display an unflinching commitment to its elders.

On its face, this is all too ironic. Why preach wariness of illusions to the one who is not disillusioned? But I'll take it as your choosing to share some of your personal process with the forum, and let it go. Yet a word of clarity about my position would do no harm: I am against all this scandal-mongering and angry cynicism. One ought be humble, grateful, and keep one's own nose clean. A diet of self-righteous rage at authority pickles the spirit, in time. And the outrages upon a certain holy hierarch, which are so popular here, are utter puerile sacrilege and will never be tolerable by me.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonis

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I still don't follow, and I assume that won't change with continued posts, so consider this my conclusion. :P
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For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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One of the problem for them is that the church is consider chistian but norn Orthodox martyr as saint.

Can you give more details about this please?  I would love to read about it.

What the Universal Church is not is an Amish macro-community whose very foundations are threatened if one does not display an unflinching commitment to its elders.



Wow.  That was a bit of a low blow, wasn't it?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Online RobS

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What the Universal Church is not is an Amish macro-community whose very foundations are threatened if one does not display an unflinching commitment to its elders.
Too bad Amish communities don't have burn centers.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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What the Universal Church is not is an Amish macro-community whose very foundations are threatened if one does not display an unflinching commitment to its elders.
Too bad Amish communities don't have burn centers.

As a neutral observer, I just thought it was a bit of an ironic comment coming from someone complaining of ad hominem and having their previous posting history dragged into the debate.  I'm not sure if that's a concept I agree with anyway.  I don't know that any poster's individual arguments should be considered apart from their general posting history if a recognizable pattern is established therein.  I don't think we should have to pretend that we don't know where certain posters stand on certain issues if it's been well-established, and address each argument in a vacuum.  That may be a subject for another thread though, and I don't want to derail here!
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonis

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What the Universal Church is not is an Amish macro-community whose very foundations are threatened if one does not display an unflinching commitment to its elders.
Too bad Amish communities don't have burn centers.

As a neutral observer, I just thought it was a bit of an ironic comment coming from someone complaining of ad hominem and having their previous posting history dragged into the debate.  I'm not sure if that's a concept I agree with anyway.  I don't know that any poster's individual arguments should be considered apart from their general posting history if a recognizable pattern is established therein.  I don't think we should have to pretend that we don't know where certain posters stand on certain issues if it's been well-established, and address each argument in a vacuum.  That may be a subject for another thread though, and I don't want to derail here!
I actually can’t take credit for it, but I do see your point.

I will completely own the viewpoints I’ve expressed on the forum in any context in which they are applicable. I won’t own viewpoints I haven’t expressed, viewpoints that have been wrongly inferred, or viewpoints that have no relevance to the current conversation. If I’m wrong and can be shown otherwise, I have no problem it.
Quote
For our impious, godless, and faithless rulers, the persecutors of our holy Faith and Fatherland, the members of our parliament who hate and wrong us, and for their repentance, let us pray to the Lord.
--Petition, Kalavrytan Rite

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Online Hawkeye

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Porter has been needlessly combative for a while now, and it's utterly frustrating to see.

My brief typed comments grate on you -- no, utterly frustrate you -- but others' screaming (to quote the OP) at a holy father does not discomfort you? So we see how much of perception is a matter of predisposition.

Would that you had said your piece on the OP and been done with it, instead of doing what you have done too often, seizing onto the brief typed comment of another and reading into it whatever uncharitable thought you could. Rare do I find anyone's posts grating, though there are plenty to dislike, but I rather like you and to have this particular line of behavior rise above the regular din of the forum is frustrating indeed as far as I am concerned.
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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What the Universal Church is not is an Amish macro-community whose very foundations are threatened if one does not display an unflinching commitment to its elders.
Too bad Amish communities don't have burn centers.

As a neutral observer, I just thought it was a bit of an ironic comment coming from someone complaining of ad hominem and having their previous posting history dragged into the debate.  I'm not sure if that's a concept I agree with anyway.  I don't know that any poster's individual arguments should be considered apart from their general posting history if a recognizable pattern is established therein.  I don't think we should have to pretend that we don't know where certain posters stand on certain issues if it's been well-established, and address each argument in a vacuum.  That may be a subject for another thread though, and I don't want to derail here!
I actually can’t take credit for it, but I do see your point.

I will completely own the viewpoints I’ve expressed on the forum in any context in which they are applicable. I won’t own viewpoints I haven’t expressed, viewpoints that have been wrongly inferred, or viewpoints that have no relevance to the current conversation. If I’m wrong and can be shown otherwise, I have no problem it.

That's fair enough.  :)
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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...but let's just admit that if there were really an established practice of the Church to subject episcopal ordinations to the laity, you would have simply produced it; or, more accurately, would not even have to produce it.

Your friend.
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Dominika

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Some more info from the most popular Bulgarian Orthodox website (you can use Google translate):
https://dveri.bg/ua3f4
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline recent convert

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The sanctioned Archimandrite Panteleimon Farah  had been praised in 2010 for reviving monasticism at the Hamatoura Monastery. Apparently some parties obviously contend that Ar. Farah is being smeared and internet info is not easy to obtain.

info on his works towards monastic revival:

http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/search?q=Archimandrite+Panteleimon+Farah

Information re sanctioning of Ar. Farah:

https://www.pokrov.org/another-church-scandal-lebanon/   

https://www.pokrov.org/persons/archimandrite-panteleimon-farah/   
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 10:26:54 PM by recent convert »
Antiochian OC NA

Beware the wrath of the guardians of "love."

Offline recent convert

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The sanctioned Archimandrite Panteleimon Farah  had been praised in 2010 for reviving monasticism at the Hamatoura Monastery. Apparently some parties obviously contend that Ar. Farah is being smeared and internet info is not easy to obtain.

info on his works towards monastic revival:

http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/search?q=Archimandrite+Panteleimon+Farah

Information re sanctioning of Ar. Farah:

https://www.pokrov.org/another-church-scandal-lebanon/   

https://www.pokrov.org/persons/archimandrite-panteleimon-farah/   

a petition circulating (not many signatures) for a reexamination of the Ar. Farah case:

https://www.change.org/p/patriarch-of-antioch-his-beatitude-john-x-reexamination-of-the-decision-of-exile-against-geronda-panteleimon-of-hamatoura   

I hit quote instead of modify & created another post instead of extending the original.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 10:31:05 PM by recent convert »
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Beware the wrath of the guardians of "love."

Offline Porter ODoran

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The sanctioned Archimandrite Panteleimon Farah  had been praised in 2010 for reviving monasticism at the Hamatoura Monastery. Apparently some parties obviously contend that Ar. Farah is being smeared and internet info is not easy to obtain.

info on his works towards monastic revival:

http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/search?q=Archimandrite+Panteleimon+Farah

Information re sanctioning of Ar. Farah:

https://www.pokrov.org/another-church-scandal-lebanon/   

https://www.pokrov.org/persons/archimandrite-panteleimon-farah/   

Thank you. And just so this link isn't overlooked, a brief quote:

Quote from: Pokrov.org
The Catholic Church can breathe a sigh of relief this time: for once, it isn’t them.

Just two months after the Maronite priest Father Mansour Labaki was found guilty by the Vatican of sexually assaulting three minors (and given the typically severe punishment of “prayer and penitence”), the head of a Greek Orthodox monastery in Koura, Archimandrite Panteleimon Farah, has been discharged by Mount Lebanon Bishop George Khodr and sentenced to isolation inside his monastery for committing “practices contrary to Christian life and the monastic calling” – later revealed to be the molestation of youths.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy