Author Topic: I didn't mean to cause trouble.  (Read 1228 times)

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Offline Isabelle44

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I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« on: November 10, 2017, 01:24:17 AM »
I didn't mean to cause trouble with my intro post.  :-(

Offline maneki_neko

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 03:26:33 AM »
Well now you got me curious so I had to look it up. ;) I don't think you're in trouble. Sometimes threads get locked for review because of the comments of others who have chimed in, not the OP.

My husband was also raised RC. I was raised Protestant but it sounds like you and I went down a similar reading rabbit hole as to how we ended up here (I am also a mom so I know what you mean about not having enough time)! We are both now converting to Orthodoxy but it was not an overnight thing. I started this journey just over  two years ago.


Offline arnI

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 07:02:04 AM »
Welcome! May you enjoy a blessed Nativity!
Grant me to see my own errors and not to judge my brother

Offline Ainnir

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 09:52:06 AM »
You caused no trouble; we're good at making our own trouble.   :police:
And welcome!   :D
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Luke

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 12:13:04 PM »
You didn't.  Relax and welcome to the board.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 02:12:17 PM »
I didn't mean to cause trouble with my intro post.  :-(

If your serene presence here is “trouble”, we need more of it.  :)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Isabelle44

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 02:57:18 AM »

Offline Aaron6127

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 05:28:15 PM »
Hopefully this post isn't deemed "discouraging one to convert to Orthodoxy", but rather an intellectually honest question.

Isabelle, I read your first post and noticed you said what started your interest in Orthodoxy was "researching the differences between Catholic and Orthodox on the teaching of original sin". I'm assuming this specifically refers to the consequences of the fall on humanity - please forgive if I am assuming incorrectly.

As an Orthodox Christian this intrigues me, because I am not aware of any differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism on this matter.

The CCC states:

402 All men are implicated in Adam's sin, as St. Paul affirms: "By one man's disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners": "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam's sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the "death of the soul".291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297


What portion of this is in conflict with Orthodoxy's understanding of original sin? I'd welcome anyone's insights.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 05:34:27 PM by Aaron6127 »
"As a pilot calls on winds and a storm-tossed mariner looks homeward, so the times call on you to win your way to God. As God's athlete, be sober; the stake is immortality and eternal life." - St. Ignatius, Epistle to Polycarp

Offline Isabelle44

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 02:50:40 AM »
Sorry....I forgot to say that first I learned that the Orthodox church does not teach the Immaculate Conception as Catholic church does.  From there, I got into researching the differences in the original sin and then did further research. 

(I've always questioned the Catholic teaching on the Immaculate Conception.  I don't know how it can actually be ascertained ...)

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: I didn't mean to cause trouble.
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 12:43:19 AM »
A little late,! I'm a Roman Catholic who is interested in Orthodoxy. And in terms of "causing trouble," it doesn't compare to my posts which usually devolve into a giant debate.,72178.0.html,72017.0.html

And it's much the same on other boards that you may (but most likely will not) see me on.

I still remember Porter's response to the latter one:

"What an ugly idea for a thread. I'll assume it's the product of deep naivete rather than incredible willful rudeness."
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 12:45:59 AM by LivenotoneviL »
I'm done.