Author Topic: Kneeling  (Read 378 times)

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Offline Sharbel

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Kneeling
« on: October 22, 2017, 12:31:10 AM »
I was surprised by kneelers at pews and was unaware that the Greek Orthodox knelt during the Epiclesis.  Is this something new, for I noticed that a few remained standing then?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 12:31:58 AM by Sharbel »
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Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 12:37:35 AM »
I was surprised by kneelers at pews and was unaware that the Greek Orthodox knelt during the Epiclesis.  Is this something new, for I noticed that a few remained standing then?

My GO congregation has been in its present (new) building since the early 1980's.  Pews with kneelers have been there from the beginning.

Many people are confused about when/when not to kneel at the Epiclesis and fail to understand the canonical prohibition on kneeling on Sundays, Paschatide, and Feasts of the Lord.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2017, 01:05:50 AM »
Yeah, I read recently that's it's modernism. The canons do state that we're to stay standing on Sundays.

I know that Greek Catholic parishes have a lot of kneeling.

I saw some kneel before myself.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 01:20:22 AM »
Yeah, I read recently that's it's modernism. The canons do state that we're to stay standing on Sundays.

I know that Greek Catholic parishes have a lot of kneeling.

I saw some kneel before myself.
Not the ones I had attended. In fact there was more kneeling at the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (epiklesis and Lord's Prayer) I visited once than the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church I attended a few times. I'm sure it varies -- we kneel but the other nearby Greek parish probably doesn't, having chairs and a concrete floor.

I did get an explanation and it was that since almost every liturgy is on Sundays we don't "get to" kneel, so this practice is in response to that. More of an economia. Of course not everyone will accept that, though of course no one has broken communion over it either. (that I know of)
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2017, 06:36:08 AM »
I was surprised by kneelers at pews and was unaware that the Greek Orthodox knelt during the Epiclesis.  Is this something new, for I noticed that a few remained standing then?

My GO congregation has been in its present (new) building since the early 1980's.  Pews with kneelers have been there from the beginning.

Many people are confused about when/when not to kneel at the Epiclesis and fail to understand the canonical prohibition on kneeling on Sundays, Paschatide, and Feasts of the Lord.

Actually, I have read a compelling argument that Canon XX of Nicea doesnt mean what we think kt means, which i shall have to dig up.  Its also worth bearing in mind that the ancient canons are not some sort of Christian Talmud; their interpretation and application is the responsibility of the bishops
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2017, 04:40:24 PM »
I think I saw kneeling on Sunday at some GOARCH's parishes when I visited the USA.
In Poland at many parishes it's pretty common to kneel during the Epiclesis (actually, the previous rector of my parish, let be his memory eternal, sometimes was remind us to do it), it's clear this is a Roman Catholic influence.

Hower, this September I visied Romania, so, various parishes in different parts of the country, for the kneeling, plus sitting on the feet (it's another version of kneeling) or laying head on the ground is the most popualr prayer position. And there are no certain moments to do it, rather if somebody feels he/she needs to do it, just does it. My Romanian friend said that only during the Pentecost period they don't do these various types of kneeling, or, at least, less.
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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2017, 05:02:33 PM »
I visited an ACROD parish.  Congregation knelt and those in the altar prostrated.  I don't know how widespread that is.
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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2017, 05:49:38 PM »
Greeks kneeling during the Epiklesis goes back centuries, to the Venetian period. Venetian rule covered much of mainland Greece and some of the islands, including during the Ottoman period.

OTOH, Greeks from the northern regions rarely, if ever, kneel. Their churches traditionally also tend not to have pews or chairs.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2017, 08:36:48 PM »
Copts do full metanies during the Epiclesis, on Sundays, to the extent permitted by the amount of room in the church.   
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2017, 06:43:32 PM »
Copts do full metanies during the Epiclesis, on Sundays, to the extent permitted by the amount of room in the church.

Except for the ones who stand and bow the head on Sundays and the holy fifty...

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Re: Kneeling
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2017, 06:44:59 PM »
I was surprised by kneelers at pews and was unaware that the Greek Orthodox knelt during the Epiclesis.  Is this something new, for I noticed that a few remained standing then?

My GO congregation has been in its present (new) building since the early 1980's.  Pews with kneelers have been there from the beginning.

Many people are confused about when/when not to kneel at the Epiclesis and fail to understand the canonical prohibition on kneeling on Sundays, Paschatide, and Feasts of the Lord.

Actually, I have read a compelling argument that Canon XX of Nicea doesnt mean what we think kt means, which i shall have to dig up.

Sounds interesting...

Quote
Its also worth bearing in mind that the ancient canons are not some sort of Christian Talmud; their interpretation and application is the responsibility of the bishops

+1