Female Sub-Deacons and Readers

[Foxy]

Hi,

This is my first post since joining this site.

This is a topic that interests me deeply, because it is part of the reason why I am moving away from my anglican faith, and towards an orthodox one.

At some point feminists managed to get further and further within the faith, I'm sure starting at being laity/deacons, and pushing for greater and greater change so that they could shape the church in their own image by having female clergy.

I'm all for female involvement within the church to a point, but it can be a slippery slope allowing females with a hidden agenda to get their hooks into the faith.

Take for example how feminists have managed to influence changes to the various english bibles.

I am very much concerned that Christianity is slowly being altered to suit various groups not just feminists.

Regards.

I have a negative reaction to your post.  Is your reason for being interested in the Orthodox Church by default because it does not havea female priesthood?  Do you know the history of women's involvement in the Orthodox Church starting with the ordination of deaconnesses?

Hi,

Thank you for you reply.

As I said it's 'part of the reason', and yes I am quite aware of their involvement.

[biro]

Question: if a mantilla is needed, is it required to be over the top of the head, or over the eyes as well? Not to be silly, but I wouldn't want to bump into anything.

[Benjamin the Red]

I believe that it has been the tradition not to have them for many centuries.  I am sure there was a good reason for the practice to fall out of favor. Interestingly, the only churches to currently use them are heretical.  May as well follow their lead.  We did on the calendar.

To my knowledge, female deacons serve in the Church of Greece and the Russian Orthodox Church to this day, though in very small numbers. At one point, I think they did die out, but have been revived. Even if I am mistaken and that is not the case, your noting that "the only churches to...use them are heretical" equivocates a female diaconate with heresy, which it very plainly is not, since it has been and is an Orthodox practice, and your mention of the calendar is a non sequitur, the calendar has nothing to do with anything we're discussing.

Hi,

This is my first post since joining this site.

This is a topic that interests me deeply, because it is part of the reason why I am moving away from my anglican faith, and towards an orthodox one.

At some point feminists managed to get further and further within the faith, I'm sure starting at being laity/deacons, and pushing for greater and greater change so that they could shape the church in their own image by having female clergy.

I'm all for female involvement within the church to a point, but it can be a slippery slope allowing females with a hidden agenda to get their hooks into the faith.

Take for example how feminists have managed to influence changes to the various english bibles.

I am very much concerned that Christianity is slowly being altered to suit various groups not just feminists.

Regards.

Feminism, I believe, has done damage to Protestant groups. Many modernist ideas have crept in for them. This is what happens when you lose sight of Sacred Tradition and are unrooted from any grounding of truth.

I'd be interested to hear your other reasons for looking into Orthodoxy, as there are many other Christian groups that disallow female ministers/pastors/priests. Perhaps in another thread? Also...welcome to the Boards!

[Foxy]

Hi,

This is my first post since joining this site.

This is a topic that interests me deeply, because it is part of the reason why I am moving away from my anglican faith, and towards an orthodox one.

At some point feminists managed to get further and further within the faith, I'm sure starting at being laity/deacons, and pushing for greater and greater change so that they could shape the church in their own image by having female clergy.

I'm all for female involvement within the church to a point, but it can be a slippery slope allowing females with a hidden agenda to get their hooks into the faith.

Take for example how feminists have managed to influence changes to the various english bibles.

I am very much concerned that Christianity is slowly being altered to suit various groups not just feminists.

Regards.

Feminism, I believe, has done damage to Protestant groups. Many modernist ideas have crept in for them. This is what happens when you lose sight of Sacred Tradition and are unrooted from any grounding of truth.

I'd be interested to hear your other reasons for looking into Orthodoxy, as there are many other Christian groups that disallow female ministers/pastors/priests. Perhaps in another thread? Also...welcome to the Boards!

Hi and thank you for the welcome.

I think that it isn't hard to see from the outside what feminism has done to many protestant groups. With all of the changes both bishops, and priests alike have left along with their congregations.

When I first started looking at religion I would be around 10 as neither of my parents at that time attended church let alone spoke about faith issues or God. I looked at various churches and faiths including Christianity, Islam and even Judaism, but found more truth in Christianity.

We had 2 churches near where we lived one protestant, one RC, and I attended both to see what they were about. I was more welcomed in the protestant church than the RC so stuck with them. Over the years I have seen women wanting to do more and more in the church, and on face value it seems harmless, but one of the deaconesses was a family friend and she said that after spending 3 years training to be clergy what she saw made her rethink the whole idea of women priests.

They were more interested in feminist ideals, and in many cases lesbianism than doing Gods work.  A lot of this is now coming through in their actions within the church, and this is many peoples main concern, but also the fact that it goes against how Jesus set up his ministry with a male only clergy.

I have attended several masses with a female priest, and very much had an open mind, but I didn't feel God or Jesus there to be honest. They were simply performing a ritual rather than taking a mass. If you understand what I mean.

I feel that God has abandoned the protestant church now as many others have seem to also sensed.

As for why I am looking at Orthodox. I have always had a deep respect for the Orthodox church as it is the only one which has stayed the most faithful to the early church that Jesus and the apostles established.  It's a more faithful message.

We didn't have an Orthodox church local to where I live so when I left my church I have been in a sort of spiritual wilderness, and not attended any church except for weddings, funerals, Christmas and Easter. Recently though, just a few years ago, one has grown in the next city to mine. They also have a once a month mass at my home city's cathedral. So I have been in contact with the Father there, and I am going to see him in a couple of weeks to talk about my reasons for wanting to attend his Church. Interestingly he used to be an anglican catholic priest, and left because of the exact same reasons that I have outlined.

Part of my other reasons are how they have changed the bible, and are continuing to do so. By doing that they are changing the original message. I agree that if an older, verified text is found then it should be used as a basis for possible change, but what they are doing is altering the meaning to suit their own rhetoric. Whatever that is.

Regards.

[Orest]

The leader of Eastern Orthodox Church is Jesus and Jesus can be spoken with through prayer and people can pray for anything including revitalizing this office with the mention to be for good use by the fullfillers of this position and by the Church. If Jesus will want this ,
Saint Mary is above angels and most men, because God notices everything and any good deed gets noticed above.

The Orthodox Church believes in in a Tri-une God.  We pray to God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
In the Orthodox Church we call the Mother of God, the Mother of God, the Theotokos in Greek and not St. Mary.  Which church do you come from?

[Benjamin the Red]

The leader of Eastern Orthodox Church is Jesus and Jesus can be spoken with through prayer and people can pray for anything including revitalizing this office with the mention to be for good use by the fullfillers of this position and by the Church. If Jesus will want this ,
Saint Mary is above angels and most men, because God notices everything and any good deed gets noticed above.

The Orthodox Church believes in in a Tri-une God.  We pray to God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
In the Orthodox Church we call the Mother of God, the Mother of God, the Theotokos in Greek and not St. Mary.  Which church do you come from?

I do find it interesting that pasadi used the phrase "St. Mary", as it is not a phrase used regularly by the Eastern Orthodox. Though, I will point out that it is common among Oriental Orthodox (as can be seen by those who post on this board) as well as Roman Catholics (particularly in Latin, Santa Maria, I don't think I've heard RCs say "St. Mary" in English, though).

I remark only to note that there's nothing explicitly wrong with saying "Saint Mary"...it's definitely true, just simply not a common piety for us EOs, who rather like "Mother of God", "Theotokos" or, if you're feeling particularly Slavic that day, "Bogoroditsa."

[Orthodox11]

I remark only to note that there's nothing explicitly wrong with saying "Saint Mary"...it's definitely true, just simply not a common piety for us EOs, who rather like "Mother of God", "Theotokos" or, if you're feeling particularly Slavic that day, "Bogoroditsa."

In Greek, Panagia (all-holy [f]) is the most commonly used. "Miter Theou" or "Theotokos" are only really used liturgically.

[augustin717]

The leader of Eastern Orthodox Church is Jesus and Jesus can be spoken with through prayer and people can pray for anything including revitalizing this office with the mention to be for good use by the fullfillers of this position and by the Church. If Jesus will want this ,
Saint Mary is above angels and most men, because God notices everything and any good deed gets noticed above.

The Orthodox Church believes in in a Tri-une God.  We pray to God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
In the Orthodox Church we call the Mother of God, the Mother of God, the Theotokos in Greek and not St. Mary.  Which church do you come from?

I do find it interesting that pasadi used the phrase "St. Mary", as it is not a phrase used regularly by the Eastern Orthodox. Though, I will point out that it is common among Oriental Orthodox (as can be seen by those who post on this board) as well as Roman Catholics (particularly in Latin, Santa Maria, I don't think I've heard RCs say "St. Mary" in English, though).

I remark only to note that there's nothing explicitly wrong with saying "Saint Mary"...it's definitely true, just simply not a common piety for us EOs, who rather like "Mother of God", "Theotokos" or, if you're feeling particularly Slavic that day, "Bogoroditsa."

That's because you do not know that in pasadi's native tongue "Saint Mary" (Santa Marie) is the most common appellation used by the Orthodox. Along with "Lord's Mother" (Maica Domnului) and the "All -Pure" (Precista). So, yeah...

[augustin717]

Another thing not common for Orthodox folks is to call themselves "eastern orthodox".

[Benjamin the Red]

In Greek, Panagia (all-holy [f]) is the most commonly used. "Miter Theou" or "Theotokos" are only really used liturgically.

True. Actually, I rather like that, but it isn't the case with the Orthodox I speak to locally. We most often prefer "Theotokos" or "Mother of God." I rather like the RC style, "Blessed Virgin."

That's because you do not know that in pasadi's native tongue "Saint Mary" (Santa Marie) is the most common appellation used by the Orthodox. Along with "Lord's Mother" (Maica Domnului) and the "All -Pure" (Precista). So, yeah...

You're right. I wasn't even sure of pasadi's native tongue, which based on what you've given me here is Romanian (only a guess, forgive me if I'm wrong). I also didn't know those are the most common styles used for the Blessed Virgin in Romanian, so I learned something. Thank you!

Another thing not common for Orthodox folks is to call themselves "eastern orthodox".

True. I don't like it, but will use it to differ between "Eastern Orthodox" and "Oriental Orthodox" when I'm discussing both of them, as I did above, since "Chalcedonian" would include both RC and EO, and is therefore not specific enough in some instances.

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