Author Topic: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos  (Read 1731 times)

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Offline Antonis

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Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« on: September 27, 2017, 05:05:52 PM »
A Google translation, cleaned up by myself:

Quote
Black flags indicating "Antichrists out from Mount Athos" have been waving since yesterday, Tuesday, at the Holy Monastery of Docheiariou on Mount Athos. This is an act of the Monastery which is related to the visit of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, canceled by the Holy Mountain, to the Panagia Perivoli.

As it is known, the Prime Minister was going to visit the Holy Monastery of Pantokrator with the Ecumenical Patriarch. Bartholomew, but in their vote the majority of the representatives of the monasteries canceled the visit .

The matter was publicly mentioned in a letter and the representative of the Holy Monastery of Xeropotamou, Hieromonk Paul, who, in his statement at the meeting, stressed that they should ask the Prime Minister not to make the visit.

The Abbot of Docheiariou Monastery, Elder Gregory, had openly opposed this visit by calling upon the Holy Fathers to resist.

A few hours ago, Abbot Gregory made public a new article in his speech, which he mentions for the vote: "The battle has taken place, and the poverty and inadequacy of the occupants has been made manifest. The cross is victorious, the protector of this place, the Virgin Mary, is victorious, the prayers of the tiny monks is victorious, and the great slander of the greatest satrap of these latter years has failed to overcome us. But it is a sadness to our hearts that our monasteries betray all of these to gain the favor of rulers."

https://agioritikesmnimes.blogspot.gr/2017/09/9638.html

Somewhere on Athos, Antonis groans, and the skulls of the holy brethren with him!

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 09:52:26 PM »
Good. Why would he want to set feet on such a holy place? I know the answer, but it's not sufficient.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 09:54:14 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 09:58:10 PM »
Good. Why would he want to set feet on such a holy place? I know the answer, but it's not sufficient.

This is WPM levels of cryptic... ???

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 10:31:47 PM »
Good. Why would he want to set feet on such a holy place? I know the answer, but it's not sufficient.

This is WPM levels of cryptic... ???
I don't see any Atheists in the local area of Docheiariou, Mount Athos. . .
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 10:50:10 PM »
He's still their prime minister you'd think and that's the capacity in which he's paying them a visit.
They'd prefer though he'd be more obsequious which is understandable. Like Prince Charles.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 10:53:35 PM by augustin717 »
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 11:21:54 PM »
He's still their prime minister you'd think
Since he is not, no, I wouldn't.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2017, 08:21:55 AM »
Didn't Mt. Athos welcome Hitler? I know it was to keep the Nazis from stealing the beautiful treasures, but it shows that they used to be willing to work with non-Christian and even morally objectionable leaders (true, Tsirpas quit being prime minister in 2015, but he is still the leader of a powerful Greek political party).
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Mor Ephrem

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How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2017, 10:24:41 AM »
Didn't Mt. Athos welcome Hitler? I know it was to keep the Nazis from stealing the beautiful treasures, but it shows that they used to be willing to work with non-Christian and even morally objectionable leaders (true, Tsirpas quit being prime minister in 2015, but he is still the leader of a powerful Greek political party).

I think in the case of Hitler they didn't have much choice. I had also read somewhere that they suspended the usual no-women-allowed rule to allow Jewish families to hide out on the mountain.
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Offline Volnutt

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Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 11:26:42 AM »
Didn't Mt. Athos welcome Hitler? I know it was to keep the Nazis from stealing the beautiful treasures, but it shows that they used to be willing to work with non-Christian and even morally objectionable leaders (true, Tsirpas quit being prime minister in 2015, but he is still the leader of a powerful Greek political party).

I think in the case of Hitler they didn't have much choice. I had also read somewhere that they suspended the usual no-women-allowed rule to allow Jewish families to hide out on the mountain.

Oh, I know. I'm not saying they were Nazi collaborators or anything like that.
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2017, 02:07:34 PM »
Heaven forbid they should welcome a guest, never mind their own prime minister...

A Google translation, cleaned up by myself:

Quote
Black flags indicating "Antichrists out from Mount Athos" have been waving since yesterday, Tuesday, at the Holy Monastery of Docheiariou on Mount Athos. This is an act of the Monastery which is related to the visit of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, canceled by the Holy Mountain, to the Panagia Perivoli.

As it is known, the Prime Minister was going to visit the Holy Monastery of Pantokrator with the Ecumenical Patriarch. Bartholomew, but in their vote the majority of the representatives of the monasteries canceled the visit .

The matter was publicly mentioned in a letter and the representative of the Holy Monastery of Xeropotamou, Hieromonk Paul, who, in his statement at the meeting, stressed that they should ask the Prime Minister not to make the visit.

The Abbot of Docheiariou Monastery, Elder Gregory, had openly opposed this visit by calling upon the Holy Fathers to resist.

A few hours ago, Abbot Gregory made public a new article in his speech, which he mentions for the vote: "The battle has taken place, and the poverty and inadequacy of the occupants has been made manifest. The cross is victorious, the protector of this place, the Virgin Mary, is victorious, the prayers of the tiny monks is victorious, and the great slander of the greatest satrap of these latter years has failed to overcome us. But it is a sadness to our hearts that our monasteries betray all of these to gain the favor of rulers."

https://agioritikesmnimes.blogspot.gr/2017/09/9638.html

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2017, 02:10:09 PM »
Heaven forbid they should welcome a guest, never mind their own prime minister...

The Panagia is their prime minister.  /philotimo
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2017, 02:12:13 PM »
Heaven forbid they should welcome a guest, never mind their own prime minister...

The Panagia is their prime minister.  /philotimo

Icons in a business suit are forthcoming.
Quote
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop
- GK Chesteron, "Lepanto"

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2017, 02:14:55 PM »
Heaven forbid they should welcome a guest, never mind their own prime minister...

Tsirpas's term ended in 2015. I do agree though, that it would be better for them to honor a visit by the leader of one of the most powerful parties in Greece and maybe extend a little Christian charity to him instead of calling him Antichrist.
Quote
The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 02:22:43 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 02:23:38 PM by Iconodule »
Quote
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop
- GK Chesteron, "Lepanto"

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 02:31:08 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?

I hope by your choice of "simply" you're not hoping to minimize the enormity of such acts.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 02:36:35 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?

I hope by your choice of "simply" you're not hoping to minimize the enormity of such acts.

I'm not. But I'm sure you will continue to infer otherwise.
Quote
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop
- GK Chesteron, "Lepanto"

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 02:55:44 PM »
He's painted himself as an enemy of the Church and on this rests much of his political gain. This Abbot Gregory sounds like a melodramatist but the principle beneath a boycott seems sound.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline augustin717

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 03:01:17 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?

I hope by your choice of "simply" you're not hoping to minimize the enormity of such acts.
enormity of what ? The proxy war Athos is waging against the EP?
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 03:13:46 PM »
Yet another Orthodox-related ethnic or political quibble which is beyond parody.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 03:14:35 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?

I hope by your choice of "simply" you're not hoping to minimize the enormity of such acts.
enormity of what ? The proxy war Athos is waging against the EP?

Nonsense.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonis

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 03:53:18 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?
The breadth of these attempts is rather wide and pernicious. Also insulting is his behavior during divine services he finds himself at, where he openly laughs and mocks the rites. This behavior extends to public comment, as well.

I'm sure many would fault the monks for a lack of charity, and I would agree if he were an earnest seeker. But as Christians we have to have a respect for the sacred, and not expose holy things to be mocked or disrespected.
Somewhere on Athos, Antonis groans, and the skulls of the holy brethren with him!

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline Antonis

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 03:54:54 PM »
It is also worth noting that our saintly hierarchs and ascetics did not court impious rulers, but called them to repentance, an obvious case being Chrysostom and Eudoxia.
Somewhere on Athos, Antonis groans, and the skulls of the holy brethren with him!

"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
Letter to Diognetus 11.4

Offline augustin717

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2017, 04:17:49 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?
The breadth of these attempts is rather wide and pernicious. Also insulting is his behavior during divine services he finds himself at, where he openly laughs and mocks the rites. This behavior extends to public comment, as well.

I'm sure many would fault the monks for a lack of charity, and I would agree if he were an earnest seeker. But as Christians we have to have a respect for the sacred, and not expose holy things to be mocked or disrespected.
he's been to Jerusalem a few times and doesn't seem he was mocking the rites. Plus Athos can't be holier than the Church of the Resurrection.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2017, 04:27:54 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?
The breadth of these attempts is rather wide and pernicious. Also insulting is his behavior during divine services he finds himself at, where he openly laughs and mocks the rites. This behavior extends to public comment, as well.

I'm sure many would fault the monks for a lack of charity, and I would agree if he were an earnest seeker. But as Christians we have to have a respect for the sacred, and not expose holy things to be mocked or disrespected.
he's been to Jerusalem a few times and doesn't seem he was mocking the rites. Plus Athos can't be holier than the Church of the Resurrection.

Obviously the subject is just humorous to someone who takes as foregone the death of Christianity in eastern Europe. But imagine for a moment the spiritual battle there is worth fighting, still far from foregone, demands the efforts of good men. What would you do as an Athonite or priest?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2017, 04:43:19 PM »
I do not think they brought another anyone closer to Christ by their lack of hospitality. And btw, they could have used the occasion of his visit to discuss differences in opinion. Even if Tsipras was horrible, didn't Moses go to Pharaoh, St. John the Baptist to Herod and Metropolian Elias of Antioch to Stalin? There would at least have been a chance of explaining their concerns in person. Now they surely missed an opportunity to do that. And I don't see what their behaviour has to do with Orthodox tradition. Wasn't Abraham's hospitality what made him worthy to meet the Holy Trinity even before the Incarnation of our Lord? These monks have brought shame on our beloved Patriarch Bartholomew and on the whole Church.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2017, 04:51:42 PM »
I do not think they brought another anyone closer to Christ by their lack of hospitality. And btw, they could have used the occasion of his visit to discuss differences in opinion. Even if Tsipras was horrible, didn't Moses go to Pharaoh, St. John the Baptist to Herod and Metropolian Elias of Antioch to Stalin? There would at least have been a chance of explaining their concerns in person. Now they surely missed an opportunity to do that. And I don't see what their behaviour has to do with Orthodox tradition. Wasn't Abraham's hospitality what made him worthy to meet the Holy Trinity even before the Incarnation of our Lord? These monks have brought shame on our beloved Patriarch Bartholomew and on the whole Church.

This post may be even more dramatic than the "Antichrists, leave Mount Athos" black flags flown at Docheiariou. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Antonis

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2017, 05:32:30 PM »
I do not think they brought another anyone closer to Christ by their lack of hospitality. And btw, they could have used the occasion of his visit to discuss differences in opinion. Even if Tsipras was horrible, didn't Moses go to Pharaoh, St. John the Baptist to Herod and Metropolian Elias of Antioch to Stalin? There would at least have been a chance of explaining their concerns in person. Now they surely missed an opportunity to do that. And I don't see what their behaviour has to do with Orthodox tradition. Wasn't Abraham's hospitality what made him worthy to meet the Holy Trinity even before the Incarnation of our Lord? These monks have brought shame on our beloved Patriarch Bartholomew and on the whole Church.
And what did Moses say to Pharaoh and John the Baptist to Herod?

What can be said to Tsipras has already been said, "And whoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when you depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city." (Matt. 10:14-15)

This standard has been the Orthodox standard since Christ said it, from the Apostles, to the latter Councils, to Patriarch Jeremias and the Lutherans, to the Letter of the Eastern Patriarchs, till today. Understandably, in the face of modern ecumenism as we know it, we can sometimes forget that.

Far from being the shame of the Patriarch, Athos has been one of the only fonts of sanctity under his jurisdiction, and let the observer understand why.
Somewhere on Athos, Antonis groans, and the skulls of the holy brethren with him!

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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 08:56:45 AM »
 The way our monks are talked about on here is disgusting,  as if they are evil or somthing. Is this still a Orthodox site, or a reddit site for closet atheists,  and agnostics.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 08:58:18 AM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2017, 09:00:27 AM »
What can be said to Tsipras has already been said
Well then they should say it again. But As Father Thomas Hopko, of blessed memory used to phrase it, they should be "speaking truth in love".
Even St. Mark of Ephesus went to Florence. Insisting on the Orthodox position is Orthodox. Refusing even to talk is not Orthodox. Absolutely not.

Ecumenism is wrong, it means giving up Orthodoxy to please the world. Anti-ecumenism is just as wrong, because it is the refusal to even confront the world, but to retreat into one's shell like a snail.

Far from being the shame of the Patriarch, Athos has been one of the only fonts of sanctity under his jurisdiction, and let the observer understand why.
So much sanctity that they have a schism there? Seriously, they can say strong words, but can they actually accomplish something? For a long time, they have been unable to solve the Esphigmenou problem... Let them solve this plank in their own eye before insulting Tsipras. And I am not defending Tsipras here, I am just ashamed of the behaviour of the "holy gerontes"...


The way our monks are talked about on here is disgusting,  as if they are evil or somthing. Is this still a Orthodox site, or a reddit site for closet atheists,  and agnostics.
What does this have to do with agnosticism or atheism, when I am using an argument from Holy Tradition, based on Prophets and Saints? Logic anyone?

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2017, 09:05:34 AM »
I had no idea that he actually mocks people during Orthodox services. That does change my opinion somewhat. No person or group should have to take that kind of abuse lying down.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2017, 09:14:34 AM »
I had no idea that he actually mocks people during Orthodox services.

Because he doesn't. It's an unproven claim. And a very serious one. Nobody should make such allegations without presenting clear proof.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2017, 10:41:32 AM »
I had no idea that he actually mocks people during Orthodox services.

Because he doesn't. It's an unproven claim. And a very serious one. Nobody should make such allegations without presenting clear proof.
if you check JP FB page you'll see Tsipras visiting and attending services there able to refrain from his supposedly mocking the services as they go compulsion.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2017, 10:59:42 AM »
Insisting on the Orthodox position is Orthodox. Refusing even to talk is not Orthodox. Absolutely not.

Quote
II John

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. 10 If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; 11 for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

^"Absolutely not Orthodox".

Quote
So much sanctity that they have a schism there? Seriously, they can say strong words, but can they actually accomplish something? For a long time, they have been unable to solve the Esphigmenou problem... Let them solve this plank in their own eye before insulting Tsipras. And I am not defending Tsipras here, I am just ashamed of the behaviour of the "holy gerontes"...

So maybe they shouldn't take any visitors until they solve their Esphigmenou problem.  After all, the saying is "first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye", not "take the log out of your own eye while taking the speck out of your brother's eye because who cares if you can see clearly, we are running out of time and at least you tried". 

Quote
What does this have to do with agnosticism or atheism, when I am using an argument from Holy Tradition, based on Prophets and Saints? Logic anyone?

No, you're not.  You're cherry-picking, which, ironically, is what many who oppose your argument do.  Discerning and finding the middle path is much more difficult. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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Offline Opus118

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2017, 11:50:19 AM »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians*. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

*April 2, 2013 PPP poll
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf


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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2017, 11:53:24 AM »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians*. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

*April 2, 2013 PPP poll
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

44% of voters believe the Bush administration intentionally misled the public about weapons of mass destruction to promote the Iraq War

How is this a conspiracy theory? More than one official has confirmed it.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2017, 01:00:23 PM »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians*. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

*April 2, 2013 PPP poll
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

44% of voters believe the Bush administration intentionally misled the public about weapons of mass destruction to promote the Iraq War

How is this a conspiracy theory? More than one official has confirmed it.
Sorry
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2017, 02:10:59 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?
The breadth of these attempts is rather wide and pernicious. Also insulting is his behavior during divine services he finds himself at, where he openly laughs and mocks the rites. This behavior extends to public comment, as well.

I'm sure many would fault the monks for a lack of charity, and I would agree if he were an earnest seeker. But as Christians we have to have a respect for the sacred, and not expose holy things to be mocked or disrespected.

Can you provide any links documenting his mocking of the services and anti-Orthodox behavior?  Because it sounds to me like the monks did the right thing.

The monastic imperative to hospitality does not extend to heretics and does not countermand Matthew 10:14-15, etc.,  2 John 7-11, or Galatians 1:8.

I once conversed with a Melkite "vagante monk" who abused Elder Ephrem and his monastery in Arizona for refusing to admit the Melkite bishop, who apparently popped up unexpected.  He seemed incapable of understanding that the instructions of the early monks to receive every visitor as though they are Jesus Christ does not extend to those the abbot considers to be anti-Christs or to those who are, as determined by the abbot, preaching another Gospel.  And indeed, monasteries have always refused admission to those sorts.

Have you ever heard of Mormon missionaries openly travelling to and spreading the Book of Mormon on Mount Athos?

If someone who has openly mocked the faith or set himself up in opposition to it wants to go to Mount Athos, first they should go to their local parish to, in the case a baptized Orthodox, repent and be rechrismated, or otherwise repent and be accepted as a catechumen.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2017, 09:01:50 AM »
Quote
II John

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. 10 If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; 11 for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

^"Absolutely not Orthodox".


Read in context. That means you should not let heretics preach in your houses (there were house churches back then). It's not about politicians.

And btw, Athos does accept visits of non-Orthodox religious leaders. German Hindu yoga guru Sukadev Volker Bretz visited, for example.

Offline Apostolos

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2017, 12:14:29 PM »
Actually he's in his second term as PM.

Now, can someone explain this a little? Is it simply because he's an atheist and has tried to reduce Orthodox influence in Greece?
&
He's painted himself as an enemy of the Church and on this rests much of his political gain. This Abbot Gregory sounds like a melodramatist but the principle beneath a boycott seems sound.

Tsipras won second term in the fall of 2015, don't know if you recall, after the referendum he called a snap general election and won a second 4-year term.
The thing is that he is a modern-day Janus, he winks his left eye to the left, in order to gain the militant anti-religious and atheist left vote (e.g. he changes completely the content of religious studies in the Greek schools; religious studies here are confessional, the changes made are unconstitutional, because according to our constitution: "Education constitutes a fundamental state objective and aims at the moral, intellectual, professional, and physical instruction of the Greeks, the development of national and religious consciousness, and the formation of free and responsible citizens"), votes a law that recognizes the civil union of gay couples (which made archbishop Ieronymos and a couple of vocal bishops -yes, bishop Seraphim of Piraeus was one of them- lash out against the legislation; that's one of the reasons the hagiorites objected Tsipras' visit), while at the same time, he waves to the Church and the conservative right by granting tax concessions to the monasteries with large land ownership.
He likes being called a "progressive" and an atheist, his two kids haven't been baptized (unprecedented in the Greek political scene), and has named his youngest son Ernesto (after Che, feel sorry for the kid, really).
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Ἧχον τὸν ἁπλοῦν τὸν βάρους ἐπώνυμον
ὁ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἐν βοαῖς μισῶν φιλεῖ.
Ἀνδρῶν δὲ ἄσμα δευτερότριτε βρέμεις.
Ὧν ποικίλος δὲ τοὺς ἁπλούς ἔχεις φίλους.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2017, 01:24:09 PM »
Quote
II John

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, men who will not acknowledge the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh; such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. 10 If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; 11 for he who greets him shares his wicked work.

^"Absolutely not Orthodox".


Read in context. That means you should not let heretics preach in your houses (there were house churches back then). It's not about politicians.

This is not my first time reading the Bible, friend. 

You're grasping at straws.

Quote
And btw, Athos does accept visits of non-Orthodox religious leaders. German Hindu yoga guru Sukadev Volker Bretz visited, for example.

I suspect a German Hindu is less scandalous in in some circles in Greece than a Greek atheist. 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2017, 01:39:21 PM »
Quote
...The abbot of the Athonite monastery reported that he had received information about the visit of a high-ranking Greek politician to Mt. Athos being prepared: “Those who legalize narcotics express their (supposed) desire and thirst to visit this holy place. I was told that a new attempt to organize the visit of a godless politician is underway.” Fr. Gregory is referring to Prime Minister Tsipras of Greece, whose previous trip to the Holy Mountain was canceled due to the protests of the monks of the mountain, including black flags with the inscription “Keep the Antichrists off the Holy Mountain” being posted in Dochariou Monastery.

Commenting on the canceled trip at the time, Archimandrite Gregory emphasized, “A fight was given, and the futility of the authorities was manifested. The Cross was victorious, the Theotokos, the protectress of Athos was victorious, the prayers of the monks were victorious. The main satrap of the recent years has not set foot on the Holy Mountain.”

Fr. Gregory also called for an end to “preparing a meeting for atheists and the antichrist,” and “is asking the Lord to lay low those who hate New Zion.”

...

http://orthochristian.com/108038.html
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2017, 02:04:11 PM »
What narcotics legalization is he talking about? Anyone know?
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Holy Community Cancels Tsipras/EP Trip to Mt Athos
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2017, 12:07:52 PM »
Athos is the New Zion? Who do they think they are? Only Kyiv is the New Jerusalem.