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Author Topic: Is smoking marijuana a sin?  (Read 38450 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2013, 04:45:33 AM »

Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

The Iconoclasts were beard shavers, beard shaving was 1 of 5 reasons for the Great Schism between the Pope and Orthodox (the Greeks were shocked that the Latin's started shaving). The Seventh Ecumenical Council declares that Christians are to imitate Christ. No Apostle, nor their successors, shaved. In the Lives of the Saints it is said that shaving is effeminate. If people desire to be unorthodox that is their choice, but they cannot fool everyone into thinking they are Orthodox. My site offers more than enough authentic references for the genuine student on such issues. No smiling or eyelash batting here.

Forgive, John

I seem to remember reading, in a letter excerpted at the beginning of HTM's translation of Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit, St. Photius basically saying that shaving was a mere custom and it wasn't an issue to get all in a tiff about. Am I misremembering?
Maybe you're misremembering that Mr. Alden submitted that post over four years ago. Wink

Nah, I saw that; I also looked at the last time he was online before I posted it, I know he hasn't been on for a while. I meant the question to be a general one, I just quoted him to provide some context Smiley
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« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2013, 06:19:36 AM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
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« Reply #137 on: February 11, 2013, 08:21:48 AM »

In my area people have been killed or injured in road traffic collisions, and other youngsters affected by marijuana induced psychosis. Driving while under the influence of marijuana is as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol.

Maybe so; I wouldn't deny that. However, in non-driving circumstances, I would say that being under the influence of marijuana is much preferable to being drunk. As I earlier stated, when is the last time you ever heard of a man abusing his wife because he was under marijuana? Never; because it relaxes you. Whereas, I could think of several instances where alcoholics have abused their wives while drunk or become violent. Admittedly, smoking marijuana excessively could be a problem, but as long as you aren't smoking it on the level of Bob Marley, I don't see many health risks.

Quote
Being drunk, smoking tobacco or partaking of recreational drugs were always heavily discouraged by Greeks around me especially as sinful.

Meh. Greeks have also told me before that Odysseus was a prophet from God, that lamb doesn't count as meat when fasting and that God wants us to speak Greek; don't believe everything a couple of Greek weirdos tell you.

The supposed weirdo's were clergy, monks and nuns of sober disposition. As for no one abusing a partner while on 'weed' as you put it, West Midlands and Staffordshire Police might disagree with you but then what would they know? As a retired health professional I would suggest our expertise on the subject is coloured by bias, and the dismissal of it's effect in road accidents suggests you might need to think again. The effect on developing adolescent minds is not something to be casually waved away. Nor is it's supposed analgesic benefits to be overstated, as is all too often stated by some users. 
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« Reply #138 on: February 11, 2013, 08:23:46 AM »


Meh. Greeks have also told me before that Odysseus was a prophet from God

LOL. I've heard someone tell that Plato was a prophet, or at least inspired, but Odysseus?  Smiley

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.

Why? Huh
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 08:33:43 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #139 on: February 11, 2013, 08:27:22 AM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
And the people who have to use it for medical reasons?

Marijuana has never had an effect on me when I tried it. Sure I didn't have a big fat blunt or a vaporizer, but I had a few bowls any given time I did it.

Maybe it "mellowed" me out more but I'm mellow as it is...

In fact I was disappointed it wasnt more potent. I've heard people say that they hear music completely different when high. Not me, sadly.
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« Reply #140 on: February 11, 2013, 09:42:47 AM »

And the people who have to use it for medical reasons?
If its obtained legally for medical purposes, I cant see it being a sin. If its obtained in a state where the law clearly forbids it, it would be sinful but perhaps only because of breaking the law. As for it being intrinsically sinful, I cant see how anymore than drinking alcohol is sinful. Drinking to excess is sinful, so smoking to excess might be.

All things in moderation.
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« Reply #141 on: February 11, 2013, 09:59:41 AM »

All things in moderation.

^
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« Reply #142 on: February 11, 2013, 12:25:57 PM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
Care to elaborate?
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« Reply #143 on: February 11, 2013, 12:36:07 PM »


I disagree with this "all things in moderation" fad.  I try not to get moderated on my posts...
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« Reply #144 on: February 11, 2013, 12:48:06 PM »

And the people who have to use it for medical reasons?
  If its obtained in a state where the law clearly forbids it, it would be sinful

 Poor Americans.... Smiley

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« Reply #145 on: February 11, 2013, 01:27:05 PM »


I disagree with this "all things in moderation" fad.  I try not to get moderated on my posts...


Well done.  Grin



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« Reply #146 on: February 11, 2013, 01:31:53 PM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?

Depends on what type of individual you are.
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« Reply #147 on: February 11, 2013, 10:22:08 PM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
And the people who have to use it for medical reasons?
What about them?
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« Reply #148 on: February 11, 2013, 10:24:37 PM »

And the people who have to use it for medical reasons?
If its obtained legally for medical purposes, I cant see it being a sin.
Since when did sin become dictated by law?
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« Reply #149 on: February 11, 2013, 10:26:18 PM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
Care to elaborate?
In the same way being a drunkard is a sin.
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« Reply #150 on: February 11, 2013, 10:55:52 PM »

This is not specifically mentioned in scripture, however the NT does repeatedly mandate sobriety.

Nḗphō – properly, to be sober (not drunk), not intoxicated; (figuratively) free from illusion, i.e. from the intoxicating influences of sin (like the impact of selfish passion, greed, etc.). Forms in the NT: νηφε νήφε νῆφε νηφοντες νήφοντες νηφωμεν νήφωμεν νηψατε νήψατε

Nḗphō ("be sober, unintoxicated") refers to having presence of mind (clear judgment), enabling someone to be temperate (self-controlled). 3525 /nḗphō ("uninfluenced by intoxicants") means to have "one's wits (faculties) about them," which is the opposite of being irrational.

Cf. μέθυσος, μεθύσῃ, μέθυσον, in later Greek also of two terminations (μέθυ, see μέθη), drunken, intoxicated: 1 Corinthians 5:11; 1 Corinthians 6:10. (Phryn.: μέθυσος ἀνήρ, οὐκ ἐρεῖς, ἀλλά μεθυστικός. γυναῖκα δέ ἐρεῖς μέθυσον καί μεθυσην (Aristophanes); but Menander, Plutarch, Lucian, Sextus Empiricus, others (the Sept., Proverbs 23:21, etc.; Sir. 19:1, etc.) use it also of men; cf. Lob. ad Phryn., p. 151.)

μεθύσκω: passive, present μεθύσκομαι; 1 aorist ἐμεθυσθην; (from μέθυ, see μέθη); from Herodotus down; the Sept. for רִוָּה, הִרְוָה (Kal רָוָה), and שִׁכֵּר, to intoxicate, make drunk; passive (cf. Winers Grammar, 252 (237)) become intoxicated: Luke 12:45; John 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:7 (Buttmann, 62 (54)); οἴνῳ (Winer's Grammar, 217 (203)), Ephesians 5:18; ἐκ τοῦ οἴνου, Revelation 17:2 (see ἐκ, II. 5); τοῦ νεκταρος, Plato, symp., p. 203 b.; Lucian, dial. deor. 6, 3; ἀπό τίνος, Sir. 1:16 Sir. 35:13.

-From http://biblesuite.com/greek/

If we are concerned with what kind of "sobriety" God wishes from us, and how we should go about avoiding "intoxication," we will commit such matters to prayer and consult our spiritual fathers; if we are not concerned, nothing will suffice to guide us (internet discussion least of all).


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« Reply #151 on: February 11, 2013, 11:26:06 PM »

All things in moderation.
Murder of innocents?
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« Reply #152 on: February 11, 2013, 11:35:57 PM »

Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco said 'there was what the Church taught and everything else was your opinion or my opinion'. So the answer must come from what the Church teaches and not a interminable Internet opinion poll.

At another level the conservative author and columnist Peter Hitchens (brother of the late Christopher Hitchens) said that the issue of the rights and wrongs of marijuana use was a philosophical rather than a health issue. 
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« Reply #153 on: February 12, 2013, 01:51:33 AM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
Care to elaborate?
In the same way being a drunkard is a sin.
That isn't an elaboration. How is being a drunkard a sin?
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« Reply #154 on: February 12, 2013, 02:37:57 AM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
Care to elaborate?
In the same way being a drunkard is a sin.
That isn't an elaboration. How is being a drunkard a sin?
Ephesians 5:18, 1 Corinthians 6:10, Galatians 5:21, Proverbs 31:6-7, Romans 13:13, 1 Peter 5:8, Isaiah 28:7/5:22/5:11, and a lot more.  Although, I'm not one to toss out verses this way, but anyone who has even conducted a cursory study of the Scriptures knows this.  I'm assuming you are asking for those who have not.
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« Reply #155 on: February 12, 2013, 02:47:43 AM »

I'm having trouble accepting that being a drunkard is considered a sin by the Church--at least it doesn't seem like it is really being enforced. I see old Russian guys at my Church cracking open wine and champaign bottles at coffee hour which is barely at noon. And this begs the question, why is being high off marijuana seen as worse than being drunk? Every drunk I've encountered in my life became violent and mean when they were drunk; every pot-head I've met only becomes chill and relaxed when they're high.
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« Reply #156 on: February 12, 2013, 04:46:20 AM »

I'm having trouble accepting that being a drunkard is considered a sin by the Church--

As are all of those who are drunkards, but there it is scattered throughout all of scripture.  As I type this I am enjoying a drab of Glenmorangie, but I will not become drunk.  If you smoke a joint, will you become high?  Pretty much and probably after the first hit.

--at least it doesn't seem like it is really being enforced.

In what way would you like to see it enforced?  Even so, it does not mean it is not a sin.

I see old Russian guys at my Church cracking open wine and champaign bottles at coffee hour which is barely at noon.

Are they getting drunk or enjoying fellowship with a glass of wine?  There is a difference between drinking and getting drunk.  How many people do you know who smoke pot who don't get high?  

And this begs the question, why is being high off marijuana seen as worse than being drunk?

It isn’t.  It’s the same…only much, much faster.

Every drunk I've encountered in my life became violent and mean when they were drunk;

Really?  I have met those, but I have also met a lot of different types of drunks.  Keep in mind, drunk and alcoholic are not the same thing.  Anyone can get drunk.  Not everyone is an alcoholic, but both are wrong.

every pot-head I've met only becomes chill and relaxed when they're high.

Again, there are a lot of different types out there.  Another thing, think long term rather than short term.
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« Reply #157 on: February 12, 2013, 05:41:37 AM »


Okay Kerdy, you've shattered me on almost every point; however, a few things still come to mind that I disagree with you about. Firstly, there are NO scientifically-proven long term affects to smoking marijuana; there hasn't been a SINGLE recorded death that ever occured because of marijuana. While admittedly, you can drink alcohol without getting drunk, whereas you cannot smoke marijuana without getting high, I still believe it is fair to mention that being high from marijuana does not really have any harmful affects, whereas drunkenness does. It is true that different people act differently when drunk--some violent, some chill, some jolly, etc.--but that is NOT the case with marijuana. By its very nature, marijuana relaxes people. The Bible--contrary to popular belief--praises drunkenness because it "makes men jolly" and relieves the pain when someone dies, and drunkenness is MUCH more dangerous than being high from marijuana. So, if drunkenness is okay in certain circumstances, why wouldn't marijuana be as well? At least the latter is nearly harmless as it does not make people violent, whereas the former has more potential for danger and violence. Likewise, while it may be possible for you to drink alcohol without becoming drunk, it is also an unescapable fact that you are still harming your body--a temple of the Holy Spirit--through your consumption of alcohol, whereas, marijuana--even if it makes you high--does not have any observable negative affects on the body.
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« Reply #158 on: February 12, 2013, 06:16:13 AM »

Firstly, there are NO scientifically-proven long term affects to smoking marijuana;

I have not looked into this so for the sake of time (because research takes time) I will give you this one.  Perhaps someone else has the information handy.  I am sure there are some studies out there.  However, if you google “long term study of harmful effects of marijuana” I think you will be surprised at some of the information you find.  Start with “Long-term effects of cannabis” on Wiki and go from there.

there hasn't been a SINGLE recorded death that ever occured because of marijuana.

You may want to look into this again.  I understand where you are coming from, but it’s the wrong approach.

While admittedly, you can drink alcohol without getting drunk, whereas you cannot smoke marijuana without getting high, I still believe it is fair to mention that being high from marijuana does not really have any harmful affects, whereas drunkenness does.

Again, you may want to look into this a little more.  Some people can smoke it for long periods of time with few problems.  Others, not so much.  And let’s not forget the fact it is at LEAST as harmful as tobacco.  Getting drunk and getting high has the same chance of getting someone hurt or killed. 

It is true that different people act differently when drunk--some violent, some chill, some jolly, etc.--but that is NOT the case with marijuana.
 

When you have been around as many different types of people who are high as I have been, get back to me and let me know if you feel the same way.

By its very nature, marijuana relaxes people.

No, it gets them high.  What a person thinks is happening and what is really happening is not always the same thing.  A lot of drunks think they are sexy.  Sober people who are watching realize how stupid they are, just like people who aren’t high when they watch people who get plastered from MJ.

The Bible--contrary to popular belief--praises drunkenness because it "makes men jolly" and relieves the pain when someone dies,

Look at the verses I supplied.  There are many, many more if you are interested.  I hope you are because your statement is incorrect.

drunkenness is MUCH more dangerous than being high from marijuana.

Do they both not alter your state of mind and ability to function?  Yes, so how do you conceive one is more dangerous than the other?  Both are dangerous, equally so.

So, if drunkenness is okay in certain circumstances,

It isn’t.

why wouldn't marijuana be as well?
It isn’t.

At least the latter is nearly harmless as it does not make people violent,

Again, experience is life’s greatest teacher.  My experience in this area far surpasses yours and those with more than mine can corroborate.

whereas the former has more potential for danger and violence.

Depends on the person.

Likewise, while it may be possible for you to drink alcohol without becoming drunk, it is also an unescapable fact that you are still harming your body--a temple of the Holy Spirit--through your consumption of alcohol, whereas, marijuana--even if it makes you high--does not have any observable negative affects on the body.
I can debate this point, but I prefer to focus on what is not immediately observable.  Question:  Do  you think God prefers you to have control over your faculties to make proper and Christian choices or open to suggestion from Satan?
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« Reply #159 on: February 12, 2013, 06:21:36 AM »

Someone who consumes any sort of intoxicants on a regular basis clearly shows he has no respect for himself (on a basic human level, putting aside such lofty concepts as 'creature of God', 'temple of the Holy Spirit', etc.). Sooner or later, he loses the respect of others as well. A pot-head, a drunkard, a junkie - they command at best pity, never respect. If you see that in the end it's a debasement of human nature (animals don't do it) and a disgrace, why would anyone in their right mind want to start on that path? Self-loathing, temptation, poor judgement, sheer idiocy?  
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« Reply #160 on: February 12, 2013, 06:35:20 AM »

Pot has a rancid smell, a simply disgusting aroma.  I can only imagine what it tastes like.
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« Reply #161 on: February 12, 2013, 07:22:22 AM »


Okay Kerdy, you've shattered me on almost every point; however, a few things still come to mind that I disagree with you about. Firstly, there are NO scientifically-proven long term affects to smoking marijuana; there hasn't been a SINGLE recorded death that ever occured because of marijuana. While admittedly, you can drink alcohol without getting drunk, whereas you cannot smoke marijuana without getting high, I still believe it is fair to mention that being high from marijuana does not really have any harmful affects, whereas drunkenness does. It is true that different people act differently when drunk--some violent, some chill, some jolly, etc.--but that is NOT the case with marijuana. By its very nature, marijuana relaxes people. The Bible--contrary to popular belief--praises drunkenness because it "makes men jolly" and relieves the pain when someone dies, and drunkenness is MUCH more dangerous than being high from marijuana. So, if drunkenness is okay in certain circumstances, why wouldn't marijuana be as well? At least the latter is nearly harmless as it does not make people violent, whereas the former has more potential for danger and violence. Likewise, while it may be possible for you to drink alcohol without becoming drunk, it is also an unescapable fact that you are still harming your body--a temple of the Holy Spirit--through your consumption of alcohol, whereas, marijuana--even if it makes you high--does not have any observable negative affects on the body.

Marijuana according to America's National Institute for Drug Addiction is the most frequent intoxicant linked to deaths in road traffic collisions, it is addictive, and has a dampening effect on cognitive function. I've seen too many who are not just chilled by it but who frankly under function in day to day tasks. The panic attacks and effects on some relating to schizophrenia are pretty scarey. Certainly smoking any substance carries risks akin to all those seen with tobacco usage.

As for drunkards, St John of Kronstadt found that vice damaging and battled against it.

So why do so many advocate it's use? I suggest because they are addicted and want the rest of us to accept its use, to normalise it.

Living near so many people of Jamacian origin I have put up with the truly awful 'pong' throughout much of the neighbourhood. And as with tobacco and drunkenness I completely fail to see the attraction or the arguments in favour of any or all of these pastimes, seeing only a blinding bias on the part of their advocates
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« Reply #162 on: February 12, 2013, 08:12:20 AM »

Marijuana is, no doubt, a potentially dangerous drug. However, it is not physically addictive and it has several proven medicinal effects. My father-in-law was prescribed marijuana for neuropathy. He insists that it is the only thing that helps with the pain. It helps with side effects of chemotherapy, such as nausea. My friend's brother with HIV has had a prescription for marijuana for years. I used to have a puff (literally a puff, or two at the most) very rarely, but I found it helped calm my often anxious mind, and helped me to focus and relax... things that have never come easily for me. And I still happen to find the smell rather pleasant (each to his own, I guess).

So "You bet it is" as an answer to the question in the OP doesn't cut it, in my opinion. There are many variables and conditions to consider.
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« Reply #163 on: February 12, 2013, 08:22:28 AM »

I find the “medicinal” argument for marijuana in the same category the “Little Suzy’s at age 9 and needs an abortion” argument.  The .04% of the actual use is shouted out for the justification of all.  Abortion is convenient and people want to smoke pot and get high.  If we take all the people who smoke pot and compare those who actually use it for “legitimate” medical use, I have a feeling the percentage will be much, much less than .04%.
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« Reply #164 on: February 12, 2013, 08:33:04 AM »

At least the latter is nearly harmless as it does not make people violent,

Again, experience is life’s greatest teacher.  My experience in this area far surpasses yours and those with more than mine can corroborate.

C'mon, quit using the age card all of the time when dealing with James. I am almost as old as you are, Kerdy, and I can attest that what James says is largely true. I am not saying that some people don't get stupid, or even occasionally violent, when under the influence of marijuana. But generally, it makes people more inhibited, not less, more relaxed, not more aggressive, more peaceful and happy, not more violent and angry. Alcohol is the cause of far more domestic violence! Go to a party where everybody is smoking and NOT drinking, and chances are they'll be giggling to a movie with the lights out. Go to a party where everyone is drinking and NOT smoking, and everyone will be much more raucous, loud, and uninhibited. I'm not trying to encourage the use of marijuana, here. But let's not be disingenuous merely for the sake of argument.
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« Reply #165 on: February 12, 2013, 08:39:17 AM »

I find the “medicinal” argument for marijuana in the same category the “Little Suzy’s at age 9 and needs an abortion” argument.  The .04% of the actual use is shouted out for the justification of all.  Abortion is convenient and people want to smoke pot and get high.  If we take all the people who smoke pot and compare those who actually use it for “legitimate” medical use, I have a feeling the percentage will be much, much less than .04%.

All I am saying is there are many variables to consider. Should the small percentage of people who actually benefit from the prescribed use of marijuana when dealing with illness, for instance, not do so because others want to use it as a recreational drug? Is alcohol sinful, then, because most people use it to get drunk? If you want to be consistent, then perhaps you'd better give up sipping the scotch!  police
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« Reply #166 on: February 12, 2013, 08:45:09 AM »

C'mon, quit using the age card all of the time when dealing with James

It isn’t the age card.  If anything, it’s the experience card.  Unfortunately, experience usually comes with age.  I’ll ask you the same thing I ask my kids.  Would you believe an adult or a fellow student who knows as much about life as you do?

I am almost as old as you are, Kerdy, and I can attest that what James says is largely true

Again, age has nothing to do with it and James is largely wrong.

I am not saying that some people don't get stupid, or even occasionally violent, when under the influence of marijuana.

I am glad to hear this, but some is a generous word.

But generally, it makes people more inhibited, not less, more relaxed, not more aggressive, more peaceful and happy, not more violent and angry.

It makes people high.  The same as several other drugs.  And if it has true medicinal purpose, why did the advocates lose their case with the Supreme Court recently about having it rescheduled?

Alcohol is the cause of far more domestic violence!

And here I thought it was just mean people.  To use alcohol to justify MJ usage is a faulty approach.

Go to a party where everybody is smoking and NOT drinking, and chances are they'll be giggling to a movie with the lights out.

And doing other drugs, having sex, and a list of other things they shouldn’t be doing.

Go to a party where everyone is drinking and NOT smoking, and everyone will be much more raucous, loud, and uninhibited.

Maybe, I have seen the opposite of what you have described, but again, faulty approach.

I'm not trying to encourage the use of marijuana, here. But let's not be disingenuous merely for the sake of argument.

Again, glad to hear this.  I am not being disingenuous.  I am being honest. 


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« Reply #167 on: February 12, 2013, 08:55:59 AM »

I find the “medicinal” argument for marijuana in the same category the “Little Suzy’s at age 9 and needs an abortion” argument.  The .04% of the actual use is shouted out for the justification of all.  Abortion is convenient and people want to smoke pot and get high.  If we take all the people who smoke pot and compare those who actually use it for “legitimate” medical use, I have a feeling the percentage will be much, much less than .04%.

All I am saying is there are many variables to consider. Should the small percentage of people who actually benefit from the prescribed use of marijuana when dealing with illness, for instance, not do so because others want to use it as a recreational drug? Is alcohol sinful, then, because most people use it to get drunk? If you want to be consistent, then perhaps you'd better give up sipping the scotch!  police

Sipping scotch doesn’t get me drunk within a few minutes.  In fact, I haven't been drunk in a very, very long time.  Taking a hit from a joint does get you high very fast.  If the option to keep MJ off the streets and out of the hands of stupid people was to make alcohol illegal, I would support that and happily give up my scotch.  Additionally, alcohol is out of your system in a few hours.  Pot is in your system for weeks.

I don’t see as many considerations as you.  Honestly, I could care less if grandma, who no longer drives and isn’t being supported by every entitlement program known to mankind, finds out she has a serious ailment or possibly even terminal, tokes a little weed now and again.  In fact, I have ignored seeing things such as this in the past, situation dependant.  The problem is when her 16 year old grandson is visiting and takes a little while she is “relaxed” and decides to drive to the 7-11 to get some snacks because he now has the munchies and runs over someone on the sidewalk.
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« Reply #168 on: February 12, 2013, 10:16:31 AM »

The problem is when her 16 year old grandson is visiting and takes a little while she is “relaxed” and decides to drive to the 7-11 to get some snacks because he now has the munchies and runs over someone on the sidewalk.

Yes, this is problematic indeed! But how about when her 16 year old grandson gets into Grandma's scotch (which she is "sipping" but not getting "drunk" on) and runs someone over driving to a party? Alcohol makes people intoxicated. Marijuana makes people intoxicated. Why is one sinful and the other not? 
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« Reply #169 on: February 12, 2013, 10:31:14 AM »

Drugs of Abuse and the Elicitation of Human Aggressive Behavior, Peter N.S. Hoaken, Sherry H. Stewart
Department of Psychology, University of Western Ontario, London ON, Canada N6A 5C2
Department of Psychology and Psychiatry, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
http://www.ukcia.org/research/AgressiveBehavior.pdf

“While cannabis has historically been excoriated for being a social “menace” and for inducing homicidal rages (Julien, 1992), more contemporary research indicates cannabis-intoxicated individuals are in fact less likely to act aggressively.” (p.10)

“…The effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) (the primary psychoactive component of cannabis) on aggressive behavior have been studied at length, with the preponderance of studies focusing on the acute effects of THC intoxication. The results of these studies suggest that while low doses of THC may slightly increase aggression, moderate and high doses can suppress or even eliminate aggressive behavior (Myerscough & Taylor, 1986; Taylor, 1976).” (p.10)

As for alcohol and its links to violence:

“Conventional wisdom tells us that individuals who are under the influence of alcohol will act aggressively. This is a situation in which conventional wisdom is likely correct—crime studies consistently implicate alcohol intoxication as one of the most significant factors in violent behavior. In large-scale review of 26 studies, involving 11 countries, it was determined that 62% of offenders convicted of a violent crime had been consuming alcohol shortly before committing the crime in question (Murdoch, Pihl, & Ross, 1990). Alcohol was more than twice as likely to be a contributing factor to violent crimes than nonviolent crimes, and in those studies that measured level of alcohol, violence was associated with heavy drinking. Another recent study, conducted with homicidal offenders in Finland, indicated a relationship between severity of alcohol use and violence.” (p.3)

“Alcohol consumption has also been associated with a wide range of types of violence, including but not limited to sexual aggression (Parks & Zetes-Zanatta, 1999; Seto & Barbaree, 1995; Testa, 2002), family and marital violence (Caetano, Schafer, Fals-Stewart, O’Farrell, & Miller, 2003; Leonard & Jacob, 1988; Leonard & Senchack, 1996), child abuse (Kaufman-Kantor & Straus, 1990), and suicide (Brent, Perper, & Allman, 1987). While crime studies of this sort are purely correlational and thus open to interpretation, manipulative controlled laboratory studies have confirmed alcohol’s role in aggressive behavior. There are now several relevant meta-analyses of experimental studies of the alcohol–aggression relationship, all of them concluding that even moderate doses of alcohol increase a participant’s likelihood of acting aggressively (Bushman, 1993, 1996; Bushman & Cooper, 1990; Hull & Bond, 1986; Ito, Miller, & Pollock, 1996; Steele & Southwick, 1985).” (p.4)

Emphasis using bold font all mine.  Smiley

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« Reply #170 on: February 12, 2013, 10:31:29 AM »

Kerdy admitted he hasn't ever smoked marijuana. That makes discussing with him differences between alcohol and marijuana intoxication pretty pointless.
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« Reply #171 on: February 12, 2013, 10:44:20 AM »

Kerdy admitted he hasn't ever smoked marijuana. That makes discussing with him differences between alcohol and marijuana intoxication pretty pointless.

True... except that he speaks with authority on the subject nonetheless!
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« Reply #172 on: February 12, 2013, 11:23:23 AM »

Kerdy has no idea what he's talking about.


I can debate this point, but I prefer to focus on what is not immediately observable.  Question:  Do  you think God prefers you to have control over your faculties to make proper and Christian choices or open to suggestion from Satan?


I am often less able and likely to commit certain sins when I'm stoned/drunk or a combination of the two.

Taking a hit from a joint does get you high very fast.  

How do you know? You've admitted that you've never smoked marijuana.
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« Reply #173 on: February 12, 2013, 11:40:44 AM »

Drugs of Abuse and the Elicitation of Human Aggressive Behavior, Peter N.S. Hoaken, Sherry H. Stewart
Department of Psychology, University of Western Ontario, London ON, Canada N6A 5C2
Department of Psychology and Psychiatry, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
http://www.ukcia.org/research/AgressiveBehavior.pdf

“While cannabis has historically been excoriated for being a social “menace” and for inducing homicidal rages (Julien, 1992), more contemporary research indicates cannabis-intoxicated individuals are in fact less likely to act aggressively.” (p.10)

“…The effects of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) (the primary psychoactive component of cannabis) on aggressive behavior have been studied at length, with the preponderance of studies focusing on the acute effects of THC intoxication. The results of these studies suggest that while low doses of THC may slightly increase aggression, moderate and high doses can suppress or even eliminate aggressive behavior (Myerscough & Taylor, 1986; Taylor, 1976).” (p.10)

As for alcohol and its links to violence:

“Conventional wisdom tells us that individuals who are under the influence of alcohol will act aggressively. This is a situation in which conventional wisdom is likely correct—crime studies consistently implicate alcohol intoxication as one of the most significant factors in violent behavior. In large-scale review of 26 studies, involving 11 countries, it was determined that 62% of offenders convicted of a violent crime had been consuming alcohol shortly before committing the crime in question (Murdoch, Pihl, & Ross, 1990). Alcohol was more than twice as likely to be a contributing factor to violent crimes than nonviolent crimes, and in those studies that measured level of alcohol, violence was associated with heavy drinking. Another recent study, conducted with homicidal offenders in Finland, indicated a relationship between severity of alcohol use and violence.” (p.3)

“Alcohol consumption has also been associated with a wide range of types of violence, including but not limited to sexual aggression (Parks & Zetes-Zanatta, 1999; Seto & Barbaree, 1995; Testa, 2002), family and marital violence (Caetano, Schafer, Fals-Stewart, O’Farrell, & Miller, 2003; Leonard & Jacob, 1988; Leonard & Senchack, 1996), child abuse (Kaufman-Kantor & Straus, 1990), and suicide (Brent, Perper, & Allman, 1987). While crime studies of this sort are purely correlational and thus open to interpretation, manipulative controlled laboratory studies have confirmed alcohol’s role in aggressive behavior. There are now several relevant meta-analyses of experimental studies of the alcohol–aggression relationship, all of them concluding that even moderate doses of alcohol increase a participant’s likelihood of acting aggressively (Bushman, 1993, 1996; Bushman & Cooper, 1990; Hull & Bond, 1986; Ito, Miller, & Pollock, 1996; Steele & Southwick, 1985).” (p.4)

Emphasis using bold font all mine.  Smiley


If minimizing aggressiveness is the Golden Criterion of what one should approve or avoid perhaps we should all get lobotomies (minimizes aggressive behavior) and never attend parish council meetings or speak of theology (has sometimes been associated with aggressive behavior).
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« Reply #174 on: February 12, 2013, 11:46:05 AM »

Quote
Is smoking marijuana a sin?


You bet it is.
Care to elaborate?
In the same way being a drunkard is a sin.
That isn't an elaboration. How is being a drunkard a sin?
Although it is not necessary to know how or why something is a sin to accept that it is, perhaps being a drunkard affects one's ability to love well and pray well?

It may also be understood in terms of contrasts presented, as mentioned before (sober/intoxicated):
This is not specifically mentioned in scripture, however the NT does repeatedly mandate sobriety.

Nḗphō – properly, to be sober (not drunk), not intoxicated; (figuratively) free from illusion, i.e. from the intoxicating influences of sin (like the impact of selfish passion, greed, etc.). Forms in the NT: νηφε νήφε νῆφε νηφοντες νήφοντες νηφωμεν νήφωμεν νηψατε νήψατε

Nḗphō ("be sober, unintoxicated") refers to having presence of mind (clear judgment), enabling someone to be temperate (self-controlled). 3525 /nḗphō ("uninfluenced by intoxicants") means to have "one's wits (faculties) about them," which is the opposite of being irrational.

Cf. μέθυσος, μεθύσῃ, μέθυσον, in later Greek also of two terminations (μέθυ, see μέθη), drunken, intoxicated: 1 Corinthians 5:11; 1 Corinthians 6:10. (Phryn.: μέθυσος ἀνήρ, οὐκ ἐρεῖς, ἀλλά μεθυστικός. γυναῖκα δέ ἐρεῖς μέθυσον καί μεθυσην (Aristophanes); but Menander, Plutarch, Lucian, Sextus Empiricus, others (the Sept., Proverbs 23:21, etc.; Sir. 19:1, etc.) use it also of men; cf. Lob. ad Phryn., p. 151.)

μεθύσκω: passive, present μεθύσκομαι; 1 aorist ἐμεθυσθην; (from μέθυ, see μέθη); from Herodotus down; the Sept. for רִוָּה, הִרְוָה (Kal רָוָה), and שִׁכֵּר, to intoxicate, make drunk; passive (cf. Winers Grammar, 252 (237)) become intoxicated: Luke 12:45; John 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:7 (Buttmann, 62 (54)); οἴνῳ (Winer's Grammar, 217 (203)), Ephesians 5:18; ἐκ τοῦ οἴνου, Revelation 17:2 (see ἐκ, II. 5); τοῦ νεκταρος, Plato, symp., p. 203 b.; Lucian, dial. deor. 6, 3; ἀπό τίνος, Sir. 1:16 Sir. 35:13.

-From http://biblesuite.com/greek/

If we are concerned with what kind of "sobriety" God wishes from us, and how we should go about avoiding "intoxication," we will commit such matters to prayer and consult our spiritual fathers; if we are not concerned, nothing will suffice to guide us (internet discussion least of all).


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« Reply #175 on: February 12, 2013, 11:55:26 AM »

The Bible--contrary to popular belief--praises drunkenness because it "makes men jolly" and relieves the pain when someone dies
The latter is true (Prov 31:6-7), but the former is said of wine, not drunkenness. Drunkenness/intoxication is never praised in the Bible.
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« Reply #176 on: February 12, 2013, 12:04:13 PM »

I see old Russian guys at my Church cracking open wine and champaign bottles at coffee hour which is barely at noon.
Nothing wrong with that if they are not getting intoxicated as far as I can tell.

As far as coffee hour, I heard one fellow teaching heresy during coffee hour and another taking the Lord's name in vain; not sure we should suppose seeing someone doing something during coffee hour therefore makes it ok.
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« Reply #177 on: February 12, 2013, 12:18:56 PM »

Quote
If minimizing aggressiveness is the Golden Criterion of what one should approve or avoid perhaps we should all get lobotomies (minimizes aggressive behavior) and never speak of theology (has sometimes been associated with aggressive behavior).

As I've mentioned, I am not at all encouraging the use of marijuana. Rather, I have shared these findings as they are directly relevant to much of the recent discussion in this thread. And I am still trying to ascertain why some people believe alcohol consumption is not inherently sinful, whereas marijuana use is...?
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« Reply #178 on: February 12, 2013, 12:56:27 PM »

It seems to me the real issue is sobriety and intoxication as these are made very clear as virtues and vices respectively.

If someone can convince themselves that they are genuinely concerning themselves to avoid intoxication and retain sobriety of mind when lighting up a joint I am happy for them. Not sure I can personally believe them(!) but that is for them, under the counsel of their spiritual father, to decide, not me.

For my part I simply abstain from smoking altogether, though I do have an occasional small glass of wine (a small glass based on personal reaction).
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« Reply #179 on: February 12, 2013, 01:04:14 PM »

Kerdy has no idea what he's talking about.


I can debate this point, but I prefer to focus on what is not immediately observable.  Question:  Do  you think God prefers you to have control over your faculties to make proper and Christian choices or open to suggestion from Satan?


I am often less able and likely to commit certain sins when I'm stoned/drunk or a combination of the two.

Taking a hit from a joint does get you high very fast.  

How do you know? You've admitted that you've never smoked marijuana.

Based on this floored logic any childless midwife or medical practitioner's opinion on childbirth is worthless. Many of us have repeatedly observed and treated people who are intoxicated with a variety of substances, while others in recreational and domestic settings see the processes in action. Indeed sometimes I feel observers may have a better appreciation of what is taking place. Still regardless of anything to the contrary users know best, or at least they would have us believe so.

I've never smoked but I have examined the throats of smokers, seeing up close the trauma caused. Yet I have the same smokers telling me that after years it hasn't done them any harm? Sorry, although I have smoked I beg to differ and the unseen cellular damage is decidedly not a joke.

Still, their choice at the end of the day.
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