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Author Topic: Is smoking marijuana a sin?  (Read 38394 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: December 24, 2008, 04:33:50 AM »

But this thread isn't about whether marijuana should be legalized.  This thread is about whether the smoking of marijuana, legal or not, is a sin.
My speculation is that it is sometimes a sin.  Not always.  I don't think the question can be fully answered without the freedom to pursue it experientially, which we don't fully have, hence Bono Vox's point:
Quote
Marijuana, on the other hand, is illegal and labeled a harmful drug. Most, therefore, internalize this labeling of marijuana and become convinced it is bad or evil because of how it is perceived or labeled by society. There is a stigma attached.
St Basil says "you, who have reason and the art of medicine to supply what you need, and the experience of your forebears to tell you to avoid all that is dangerous, you tell me that you find it difficult to keep yourself from poisons!", and I believe he has a more elevated view of us humans and than the U.S. federal law does.  Our forebears have not settled the question when it comes to marijuana seeing that it has been in practical use, medicinally and otherwise at various times and places in history and also taboo and criminalized in other times and places.

As far as nepsis being the opposite of its psychoactive effects, I'm not convinced by this argument.  Which master of watchfulness has come out and said that it's impossible for one to avoid assent to temptations under the influence of THC, and at what dosage?  If this is true for one person, is it true for all?  Similarly, with the psychoactive effects of alcohol, does it truly make it impossible for one to avoid assent to sinful thoughts?  I'm not sure that the "sobriety" of the fathers is equivalent to the modern concept of it which, coincidentally is rooted in the same era as the criminalization of alcohol & marijuana and other "drugs".  I wish there were more sources by spiritual fathers on the subject, but unfortunately I haven't found any.
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« Reply #91 on: December 24, 2008, 05:32:15 PM »

Good health to everyone.

Hemp and tobacco smoking is against God, they are vices (the opposite of virtue). They are extraordinary sins, sins unto death. These herbs are violent when ingested and are addictive and instantly intoxicating. They change behavior and are on par with hard liquor. They are devils incense. They are strictly forbidden to the person who loves Christ.

In medieval times Russia offered the death penalty, even beheading, for those with the sin of this temporary pleasure. They even constituted heresy, being a western way of living which heretics adopted from pagans. They are poisons and using them is devilishly suicidal. Smoking is abominable, a filth in the mouth.

In 1634 the Greek Orthodox Church said it was the smoking of a herb which intoxicated Noah, so they banned its use. Smoking burns up all your good deeds, the holy angels will never sit next to you if you smoke.

Here is a reference that explains how one cannabis joint equals five cigarettes

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/Smoking/6298

I have a web page on my site with much more info, for those interested. It is my most popular page, for what it is worth. I need to update it and there is more content to add, if time allows.

Forgive, John
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« Reply #92 on: December 24, 2008, 05:45:02 PM »

You just need to expand your example to talk about how marijuana smoke affects the average, mentally healthy person.

"Lead us not into Temptation."  I'm not the right person to speak on this topic for I have never used marijuana.

I walked through a marijuana festival in Boston one year when I was in college with my friend and his GF.  While the people were laid back and relaxed, I felt a sense of something not being right in that people were using marijuana to make a statement of defiance.

For those who yield their will to God, why would they want to yield their will to a plant?  Are they being defiant towards God if they voluntarily and knowingly use marijuana or do the hallucinatory properties of marijuana deceive them into thinking they are doing God's will?  For both answers, they are back at the allegorical Garden of Eden where Satan tells Eve that she will be like God by eating the Tree of Good and Evil.
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« Reply #93 on: December 24, 2008, 06:11:39 PM »

They are strictly forbidden to the person who loves Christ.
Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #94 on: December 24, 2008, 10:01:54 PM »

Good health to everyone.

Hemp and tobacco smoking is against God, they are vices (the opposite of virtue). They are extraordinary sins, sins unto death. These herbs are violent when ingested and are addictive and instantly intoxicating. They change behavior and are on par with hard liquor. They are devils incense. They are strictly forbidden to the person who loves Christ.

In medieval times Russia offered the death penalty, even beheading, for those with the sin of this temporary pleasure. They even constituted heresy, being a western way of living which heretics adopted from pagans. They are poisons and using them is devilishly suicidal. Smoking is abominable, a filth in the mouth.

In 1634 the Greek Orthodox Church said it was the smoking of a herb which intoxicated Noah, so they banned its use. Smoking burns up all your good deeds, the holy angels will never sit next to you if you smoke.

Here is a reference that explains how one cannabis joint equals five cigarettes

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/Smoking/6298

I have a web page on my site with much more info, for those interested. It is my most popular page, for what it is worth. I need to update it and there is more content to add, if time allows.

Forgive, John
You got any sources to back this up other than "John Alden said so"?
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« Reply #95 on: December 25, 2008, 05:04:29 AM »

They are strictly forbidden to the person who loves Christ.
Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

George this line made my day hahaha
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« Reply #96 on: December 26, 2008, 02:19:12 PM »

I am finding this thread very fascinating. I have often wondered the question: Is smoking marijuana a sin? Coming from a religion with an extremely legalistic approach to matters. I needed to question this.
I read every post here and thought everyone made very good points.

I am neutral on this right now. I need to contemplate about this and pray about it. But here is my initial viewpoints.
I tried to put the issue in my mind by presenting marijuana in the most non controversial way. This is my way of boiling it down to just God and the user.

The conditions:
1. What if person was put in a place where Marijuana was legal to use for personal reasons other than medical.

There are actual places like this. I would then say that there would be no sin here by breaking a common law.

2. Can one use Marijuana moderately in such a way of not harming their neighbours around them in a second hand way.

One can ingest foods and drinks that are mixed with the plant compounds found in Marijuana. Second hand smoke would not be an issue here and the neighbours best interest would be found above the personal.

3. What if a persons actual use of marijuana did not affect other people around them.

One could use marijuana privately and/or around ones that would not have a condemnatory issue with it. Thus eliminating the stigma behind it.

4. What if marijuana in it's use could be made to have varying levels of intoxication.

Marijuana can be used in such a way by dilution or cutting with other compounds. The level of the affects can be controled then by amount of consumption.

5. Do the affects of MILD or very MODERATE use of marijuana experienced by the person cause one to loose their spiritual awareness. Would this close the nous so much one acts very contrary to what that person would be experiencing in a completely normal state of mind.

This one I cannot answer. And it has puzzled me. I have experienced marijuana use and can say that the affects for me personally can be different than another. I noticed that when some people drink they can become very angry energetic and awful in nature while others seem to be silly, mellow and almost sleepy. From my past experience with marijuana I always seemed to go unnoticed while in its affects. I worked and never found people taking issue with me being different or out-of-mind or out of control. I kept a moderate approach.  Music and art and all the senses were enhanced many times. With abuse the situation is completely different. And I noticed slightly different affects with different people and at different amounts. I think the stigma that goes around with marijuana is the biggest problem. Just posting on this thread is an example to that. There could be some health risks also.


Here is a story. Our imaginary character is called Jo. The name is fictional and not related to any forum member. The whole story is fictional and I should also make the anti stigma disclaimer that it is an attempt to isolate external problems associated around the use of marijuana that have been discussed on this forum and is to try to boil down to the core basic OP on this thread topic on the use of marijuana and if God would approve or disapprove. It does not condon the use of it.


Jo lives in a land where marijuana is legal. It's the end of the day and so after work he decides to go to the store and buy some marijuana. He finds a small can in the variety that he likes. He pays for it then returns home. Later that night he opens the can and prepares his marijuana tea using his favorite recipe. He prepares enough just to make one small cup.  He knows not to take to much. Just enough for him to enjoy and relax the evening watching a movie.  After the movie he still is feeling slight affects but decides to do his lectionary reading and his prayers. He retires for the evening.

At this point, based solely on the use of the assumption, that Jo used marijuana moderately and is using it in a self controled manner, can it be said that he sinned?

Given in the above context I am not sure how to answer this. It all depends on how it affected him during the intoxication. Could the effects of the movie be worse or different? Could the affects of the marijuana be helpful or harmful for him when reading the Bible and praying? If we substitute the marijuana tea with say a strong drink would it be the same or different and how.

With the thought that I am not sure about how the affects can manifest themselves in certain individuals and how it affects the dynamics of the nous even in moderate consumption, I need to be cautious with a bold statement either way if it is a sin or not. I would say however that it may be sin to use it in many forms and for certian individuals and in certian settings. Just as alchohol can be viewed that way also. A sin for some but not for others. I am not sure that even makes sense.

I don't judge people if they do decide to use it in moderation and self control and it is appropriated by wholesome means. I don't judge either the ones that have an opposition to it.

Romans 14:19-23 fits my viewpoint nicely

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith?  Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

St John Chrysostom is paraphrased in a comment on this verse in the OSB in saying that those who are weak in faith may sin, not because the action is wrong in itself but because in their hearts they think they are betraying God and proceed anyway. This action is sin because it does not come from the person's faith.

Unless I completely misunderstand the context of St. John Chrysostom and the verses above, those that condemn marijuana use and use it are sinning those that approve it and use it are not. This all hinges however on whether the affects of MODERATE use of marijuana has on the individual and its ramifications on his or her spiritual life.

Merry Christmas to all

NI
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« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2008, 10:18:45 AM »

The Lord offers Good News on doers of heathen practices like smoking, etc., the command to separate from heathen (see any apostate bible reference at Matt. 18: 17). Heresy is never pure. It is heresy to contradict Christ. Misbelievers must be rejected, a condition we should all recognize. It is their choice if they smoke herbs. There is no excuse, anyone can learn and do what is right. Orthodox practice stands apart from such abominations, not with them. Smoking is said to be the "ruin of both body and soul." The Great Apostasy is now. We had better watch out, because it is extremely contagious. Tsar Solomon who built the first Temple in Jerusalem said, "a companion of fools shall be destroyed." We become what we immitate.

Forgive, John
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« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2008, 10:26:09 AM »

Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

The Iconoclasts were beard shavers, beard shaving was 1 of 5 reasons for the Great Schism between the Pope and Orthodox (the Greeks were shocked that the Latin's started shaving). The Seventh Ecumenical Council declares that Christians are to imitate Christ. No Apostle, nor their successors, shaved. In the Lives of the Saints it is said that shaving is effeminate. If people desire to be unorthodox that is their choice, but they cannot fool everyone into thinking they are Orthodox. My site offers more than enough authentic references for the genuine student on such issues. No smiling or eyelash batting here.

Forgive, John
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« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2008, 10:42:54 AM »

Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

The Iconoclasts were beard shavers, beard shaving was 1 of 5 reasons for the Great Schism between the Pope and Orthodox (the Greeks were shocked that the Latin's started shaving). The Seventh Ecumenical Council declares that Christians are to imitate Christ. No Apostle, nor their successors, shaved. In the Lives of the Saints it is said that shaving is effeminate. If people desire to be unorthodox that is their choice, but they cannot fool everyone into thinking they are Orthodox. My site offers more than enough authentic references for the genuine student on such issues. No smiling or eyelash batting here.

Forgive, John

Yep. Exactly my point.
BTW, the emoticon is not "smiling or eyelash batting"; it's rolling it's eyes.
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« Reply #100 on: December 28, 2008, 12:15:44 PM »

Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

The Iconoclasts were beard shavers, beard shaving was 1 of 5 reasons for the Great Schism between the Pope and Orthodox (the Greeks were shocked that the Latin's started shaving). The Seventh Ecumenical Council declares that Christians are to imitate Christ. No Apostle, nor their successors, shaved. In the Lives of the Saints it is said that shaving is effeminate. If people desire to be unorthodox that is their choice, but they cannot fool everyone into thinking they are Orthodox. My site offers more than enough authentic references for the genuine student on such issues. No smiling or eyelash batting here.

Forgive, John

How come you still use the devilish internet? isn't this just as bad as shaving? Also what were the other 4 reasons for the Great Schism.
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« Reply #101 on: December 28, 2008, 12:47:34 PM »

My two cents, like anything used outside of God's plan for it, it CAN be a sin. But I don't think it's automatically a sin. Most medications that are legal around the world (or at least in the U.S.) are way more dangerous and addictive than pot, yet we don't think people taking these are comitting a sin. Just check out the American drug ads on TV...taking this medication may lead to various side effects including, diziness, upset stomach, internal bleeding and death"..., yet they're not sinful automatically, but they could be.

These exact same legal drugs can be sold on the street to people who don't need them, and hence they can become sinful.

At least marijuana is usually in it's natural state (unlike most medications which are drastically altered by man) and I don't believe there is any substance that God has created that is inherently sinful IF it is used in the manner that God intends it to be used..this is the trick however and we as humans have a pretty bad track record for using things in their proper context....it's our use of the substance that can be sinful IMO and not the substance itself.

 Far more people are killed, made ill, beaten, abused and have their health and lives ruined by alcohol every year than by marijuana, yet that's ok and not sinful as long as done "in moderation"...why would marijuana be any different? Satan didn't create pot because he has no creative power at all, he can only twist and pervert things, and maybe that's what's happened with marijuana, I do not know...but I'm sure there is a proper use for it.

Personally I have never used marijuana, and do not drink, nor will I ever do these things (I pray) but I do think they can be used in an unsinful manner, I just think the effort to do so is more trouble than it's worth and so its better off to stay away from these things all together. At least for me. Besides, cigarettes and marijuana stink, who would ever want to smell like that anyway? Smiley



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« Reply #102 on: December 28, 2008, 01:04:13 PM »

In medieval times Russia offered the death penalty, even beheading, for those with the sin of this temporary pleasure. They even constituted heresy, being a western way of living which heretics adopted from pagans. They are poisons and using them is devilishly suicidal. Smoking is abominable, a filth in the mouth.

And here all along I'd been taught that St. Vladimir abolished capital punishment in his realm under the influence of Christianity.  I guess serious things like marijuana smoking call for desperate measures. 
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« Reply #103 on: December 28, 2008, 01:39:02 PM »

In medieval times Russia offered the death penalty, even beheading, for those with the sin of this temporary pleasure. They even constituted heresy, being a western way of living which heretics adopted from pagans. They are poisons and using them is devilishly suicidal. Smoking is abominable, a filth in the mouth.

And here all along I'd been taught that St. Vladimir abolished capital punishment in his realm under the influence of Christianity.  I guess serious things like marijuana smoking call for desperate measures. 

Actually, I think he was talking about tobacco...which is somewhat interesting considering tobacco is native to the Americas and wasn't even introduced to Europe until the 16th century.
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« Reply #104 on: December 28, 2008, 10:17:50 PM »

The Lord offers Good News on doers of heathen practices like smoking, etc., the command to separate from heathen (see any apostate bible reference at Matt. 18: 17). Heresy is never pure. It is heresy to contradict Christ. Misbelievers must be rejected, a condition we should all recognize. It is their choice if they smoke herbs. There is no excuse, anyone can learn and do what is right. Orthodox practice stands apart from such abominations, not with them. Smoking is said to be the "ruin of both body and soul." The Great Apostasy is now. We had better watch out, because it is extremely contagious. Tsar Solomon who built the first Temple in Jerusalem said, "a companion of fools shall be destroyed." We become what we immitate.

Forgive, John
So, you ignore my request for sources?
You got any sources to back this up other than "John Alden said so"?

You're not the pope (as if we ever had one), so you don't get to cite your own "authority" as final on any matters dogmatic.  We need you to tell us where you got the "teachings" you present to us.  Which fathers?  Which patristic writings?  Which conciliar decrees?  Don't just refer us to your web site, where you only explain in greater detail what you tell us here, and with little more reference to outside sources than we see from you here.

Otherwise, if you just don't like seeing people smoke, then tell us you just don't like seeing people smoke.  Don't just present your personal likes and dislikes as if they were dogmatic rules that all must follow.
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« Reply #105 on: April 10, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »

There are a lot of lies and propaganda featured here.  Maybe you should ALL do some research before spewing ignorance out of your mouth.  Cannabis is not even comparable to Alcohol.  First of all alcohol is man made, while Cannabis is God made. 

Let's look at Genesis 1:

 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

 12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

So are you, a mere man, saying that what God has given us bad?  Wow!!  You have some ego there to say what God has given us is bad when "God saw that it was good."

As far as legality goes, where in scripture does it specifically say that we are to obey the laws of man?    But even if it is there, why would you allow man to take away from you what God has given you?   how does mankind have the power or authority to make nature illegal?  Would you allow mankind to tell you that you can't have flowers in your front yard or trees?  This is the same thing here.  It is against what God has said here.  If God has given it let no man taketh away.

Also saying that Marijuana/Cannabis is dangerous is an absurd and uneducated statement.  Here's just two quotes from the link below:

"In one of the largest marijuana studies ever conducted, researchers have concluded that regular pot smoking does not cause death, but that branding its use a crime may itself pose a health hazard by exposing users to criminals and violence."

"The researchers tracked the records of more than 65,000 Bay Area members of the Kaiser Permanente health plan for an average of 10 years. Compared to the members who had never used marijuana, they found no increase in deaths among more than 14,000 of the patients who had said they were marijuana users between 1979 and 1985."
Source: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/medical/kaiser2.htm

It's not dangerous, lawmakers are dangerous.  And you trust and allow those that make it illegal pray in schools tell you how to live your life?  That's interesting.  So how do you allow God to fit in when these lawmakers go against God's word every chance they get?
 
Let's drop some more knowledge for the biased.  Maybe it's time to open your mind and do a bit of thinking for yourselves?  I'm not trying to be rude, but some people just let the tv and politicians tell them what to think as is obvious here in this thread.

"How Dangerous is Marijuana
....in comparison to other substances?

Number of American deaths per year that result directly or primarily from the following selected causes nationwide, according to World Almanacs, Life Insurance Actuarial (death) rates, and the last 20 years of U.S. Surgeaon Generals' reports. (figures are for 1988 from the federal government's Bureau of Mortality Statistics and the National Institute on Drug Abuse....
Tobacco                                    340,000 to 425,000Alcohol (not including 50% of all highway deaths          and 65% of all murders)                     150,000Aspirin (Including deliberate overdose)         180 to 1,000+Caffeine (from stress, ulcers and triggering          irregular heartbeats, etc)          1,000 to 10,000'Legal' Drug overdose (Deliberate or accidental)          from legal prescribed or patent medicines          or from mixing with alcohol (eg. Valium with          Alcohol)                           14,000 to 27,000Illicit Drug Overdose (deliberate or accidental)          from all illegal drugs               3,800 to 5,200Theopoline (Pharmaceutical Drug legally prescribed          for asthma)                                      50          Theopoline is also responsible for 6,500          hospital admissions and 1,000 cases of          permanent brain damage per year.Marijuana                                           0  (ZERO)

Marijuana users also have the same or lower incidence of murders and highway deaths and accidents than the general non-marijuana-using population as a whole. Crancer Study, UCLA: U.S. funded ($6 million) First and Second Jamaican studies, 1968 to 1974;Costa Rican Studies, 1980 to 1982; et al.
From "The Emperor Wear No Clothes" by Jack Herer "
Source: http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/mjdeaths.htm

Do any of you even know the truth about why Cannabis became illegal in the first place?  Did you know it was a very widely used substance (even among Christians and other religions) up until the 1930's?  Did you know it was used for just about everything under the sun? 

You should check this link for some more reliable information, and if you think it's biased do the research yourself and you'll see that it is indeed very accurate information.

http://jackherer.com/chapters.html


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« Reply #106 on: April 10, 2009, 04:09:03 PM »

God made a lot of things, and saw that they were good. That does not mean He intended for us to smoke them.
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« Reply #107 on: April 10, 2009, 04:09:24 PM »

^^Not that I am all that much against pot (not my personal "cup of tea," but much less harmful than tobacco for all I know), but what's wrong with the fact that alcohol is man-made? So is bread...
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« Reply #108 on: April 10, 2009, 04:10:51 PM »

God made a lot of things, and saw that they were good. That does not mean He intended for us to smoke them.

Yes, but some of them ARE good, so I think Asking79's dichotomy "pot God-made = good - alcohol man made=bad" is not accurate.
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« Reply #109 on: April 10, 2009, 04:19:07 PM »

The Lord offers Good News on doers of heathen practices like smoking, etc., the command to separate from heathen (see any apostate bible reference at Matt. 18: 17). Heresy is never pure. It is heresy to contradict Christ.

Genesis 1:
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Was God wrong just because politicians lie about the herb?  See the politicians are the ones contradicting God and Christ, not users of Cannabis.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
So then we should not obey the lawmakers because as I quoted above from scripture Cannabis is good, as God saw what he created and it was good.  So then, the real heathens are the politicians, and we should seperate from them. 

Misbelievers must be rejected, a condition we should all recognize. It is their choice if they smoke herbs. There is no excuse, anyone can learn and do what is right. Orthodox practice stands apart from such abominations, not with them. Smoking is said to be the "ruin of both body and soul."


Point me to the scriptures that say this is true please.  And then I will also let you know that there other ways of using the herb besides smoking.  Of course smoking is not a good thing, but vaporizing is harmless to your body and so is eating, tinctures, teas, healing hemp oils, etc...  Check out www.phoenixtearsmovie.com about how Cannabis/Hemp Oil has cured Cancer in patients.  Maybe you put too much faith and trust in the politicians and they know that this plant is good, but they are the evil ones taking away what good God has created?  There is evidence of this to be true, where there is no REAL proof that Cannabis is bad in any way at all.  See links I posted in the above comment.

The Great Apostasy is now. We had better watch out, because it is extremely contagious. Tsar Solomon who built the first Temple in Jerusalem said, "a companion of fools shall be destroyed." We become what we immitate.

Forgive, John

And we or shall I say you imitate evil politicians with dirty agendas.  So are you becoming a devil?
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« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2009, 04:21:29 PM »

God made a lot of things, and saw that they were good. That does not mean He intended for us to smoke them.

Yes, but some of them ARE good, so I think Asking79's dichotomy "pot God-made = good - alcohol man made=bad" is not accurate.

You guys are completely missing the point.  I'm not saying that because man made it it's bad, but I am saying that man made laws against God's cretaions are bad. 

And I see you say that doesn't mean he intended for us to smoke them, and that's why I am pointing out that you don't have to smoke, you can eat, vaporize, make teas or other drinks, etc...

Like I said open your eyes, you have been lied to about Cannabis.
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« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2009, 04:33:19 PM »

You guys are completely missing the point.  I'm not saying that because man made it it's bad, but I am saying that man made laws against God's cretaions are bad. 

And I see you say that doesn't mean he intended for us to smoke them, and that's why I am pointing out that you don't have to smoke, you can eat, vaporize, make teas or other drinks, etc...

Like I said open your eyes, you have been lied to about Cannabis.
Call me a prophet, but I have a feeling that after you are done raving about Cannabis, we will never hear from you again. Hmmm...
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« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2009, 04:45:25 PM »

Actually I am very interested in joining the Orthodox Church because I thought they were about truth, and not the lies and hypocrisy, I'm starting to feel I was wrong.  All I'm saying is this plant is very beneficial and you can't even tell me you've looked through the stuff I've posted.  My guess is you don't even know why you think it's bad aside from propaganda that is all false.
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« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2009, 04:46:21 PM »

You guys are completely missing the point.  I'm not saying that because man made it it's bad, but I am saying that man made laws against God's cretaions are bad. 

And I see you say that doesn't mean he intended for us to smoke them, and that's why I am pointing out that you don't have to smoke, you can eat, vaporize, make teas or other drinks, etc...

Like I said open your eyes, you have been lied to about Cannabis.
Call me a prophet, but I have a feeling that after you are done raving about Cannabis, we will never hear from you again. Hmmm...

No, prophets aren't as judgemental and condemning as that.
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« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2009, 04:48:17 PM »

Actually I am very interested in joining the Orthodox Church because I thought they were about truth, and not the lies and hypocrisy, I'm starting to feel I was wrong.  All I'm saying is this plant is very beneficial and you can't even tell me you've looked through the stuff I've posted.  My guess is you don't even know why you think it's bad aside from propaganda that is all false.
If I were to put all the Pot I've smoking in my life in several garbage bags, I doubt it would all fit. All I am saying is that you seem a little too interested in Cannabis/trying to convince others of its miracles. Why don't you ask some questions about Orthodoxy? That would be a great place to start.
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« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2009, 04:49:51 PM »

You guys are completely missing the point.  I'm not saying that because man made it it's bad, but I am saying that man made laws against God's cretaions are bad. 

And I see you say that doesn't mean he intended for us to smoke them, and that's why I am pointing out that you don't have to smoke, you can eat, vaporize, make teas or other drinks, etc...

Like I said open your eyes, you have been lied to about Cannabis.
Call me a prophet, but I have a feeling that after you are done raving about Cannabis, we will never hear from you again. Hmmm...

No, prophets aren't as judgemental and condemning as that.
You have posted about a handful of times so far, and they have all been about weed. And now you are getting really angry and defensive. It looks like, indeed, my prophesy will be fulfilled...
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« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2009, 05:23:37 PM »

You guys are completely missing the point.  I'm not saying that because man made it it's bad, but I am saying that man made laws against God's cretaions are bad. 

And I see you say that doesn't mean he intended for us to smoke them, and that's why I am pointing out that you don't have to smoke, you can eat, vaporize, make teas or other drinks, etc...

Like I said open your eyes, you have been lied to about Cannabis.
Call me a prophet, but I have a feeling that after you are done raving about Cannabis, we will never hear from you again. Hmmm...

No, prophets aren't as judgemental and condemning as that.
You have posted about a handful of times so far, and they have all been about weed. And now you are getting really angry and defensive. It looks like, indeed, my prophesy will be fulfilled...

I'm not angry, but there you go jumping to conclusions again...
You're good at that.
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« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2009, 05:35:25 PM »

Actually I am very interested in joining the Orthodox Church because I thought they were about truth, and not the lies and hypocrisy, I'm starting to feel I was wrong.  All I'm saying is this plant is very beneficial and you can't even tell me you've looked through the stuff I've posted.  My guess is you don't even know why you think it's bad aside from propaganda that is all false.

Asking, brother, I am sorry if I offended you. Of course, join the Church. Maybe you are right and cannabis is, indeed, beneficial. I do not want to say that it is not - I honestly just do not know. I tried smoking it once, because my younger relatives convinced me that I should try at least once, "hey, everyone's doing it." I did not like it - honestly, I did not feel euphoric like I was predicted to feel; rather, I simply felt dizzy and uncomfortable. But then, I don't like regular tobacco either. I smoked to "fit in the right crowd" when I was young, and then I quit without any difficulty, in one day. It's all very individual.

The Church, however, is not quite about smoking or herbs or benefit of this or that, it's about the Kingdom of God. Do join us, become the citizen of this Kingdom, it's good! Smiley
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« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2009, 12:55:35 AM »

Genesis 1:
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Was God wrong just because politicians lie about the herb?  See the politicians are the ones contradicting God and Christ, not users of Cannabis.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
So then we should not obey the lawmakers because as I quoted above from scripture Cannabis is good, as God saw what he created and it was good.  So then, the real heathens are the politicians, and we should seperate from them. 

I'm not going to say whether smoking marijuana is sinful or not.  I honestly have no other view except I prefer it not be smoked unless it's for medicinal use.  It still causes changes in brain chemistry that we are not sure about long-term effects yet.

Nevertheless, the use of Bible verses to support smoking plants is unfounded.  That makes no sense.  All things God created are good, but they're good for different reasons.

You don't see people eating ivory funnel for obvious reasons.
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« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2009, 01:30:53 AM »

Yup.  Water hemlock is good in its own way, but you certainly don't want to eat it. 
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« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2009, 11:25:41 AM »

Actually I am very interested in joining the Orthodox Church because I thought they were about truth, and not the lies and hypocrisy, I'm starting to feel I was wrong.  All I'm saying is this plant is very beneficial and you can't even tell me you've looked through the stuff I've posted.  My guess is you don't even know why you think it's bad aside from propaganda that is all false.

Asking, brother, I am sorry if I offended you. Of course, join the Church. Maybe you are right and cannabis is, indeed, beneficial. I do not want to say that it is not - I honestly just do not know. I tried smoking it once, because my younger relatives convinced me that I should try at least once, "hey, everyone's doing it." I did not like it - honestly, I did not feel euphoric like I was predicted to feel; rather, I simply felt dizzy and uncomfortable. But then, I don't like regular tobacco either. I smoked to "fit in the right crowd" when I was young, and then I quit without any difficulty, in one day. It's all very individual.

The Church, however, is not quite about smoking or herbs or benefit of this or that, it's about the Kingdom of God. Do join us, become the citizen of this Kingdom, it's good! Smiley

Thank you.  That is appreciated.
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« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2009, 03:49:13 PM »

Maybe we should look at the definition of "sin" (hamartia [ἁμαρτία]) as understood in the Orthodox Church.  This will help us answer the the OP question in a more applicable context (i.e. THC usage in medicinal vs. recreational).
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« Reply #122 on: February 10, 2013, 04:41:45 PM »

....definitely better than strong liquor use.....


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« Reply #123 on: February 10, 2013, 05:35:20 PM »

Because something is in a natural state does not equate with healthier, better or safer necessarily. Example might willow bark as opposed to aspirin, in treating headache. The Egyptians used the former and we the latter. I certainly wouldn't want to use willow bark for a headaches, the side effects are no fun.
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« Reply #124 on: February 10, 2013, 06:17:27 PM »

I'll put it this way, getting drunk is a sin we all know that because drunkenness makes it easier for the demons to tempt you and it's a state of mind God did not intend you to be in. Sure you can have a beer and not get drunk, but with marijuana you can't just smoke a little and not feel the effect. Stay in the mind that God wants you to be in and toss the pot, no good will come of it. It's hard enough fighting the demons with a clear mind, why would anyone want to let their guard down? If you want to get a high to escape from this world, go to Church.
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« Reply #125 on: February 10, 2013, 06:34:31 PM »

Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

The Iconoclasts were beard shavers, beard shaving was 1 of 5 reasons for the Great Schism between the Pope and Orthodox (the Greeks were shocked that the Latin's started shaving). The Seventh Ecumenical Council declares that Christians are to imitate Christ. No Apostle, nor their successors, shaved. In the Lives of the Saints it is said that shaving is effeminate. If people desire to be unorthodox that is their choice, but they cannot fool everyone into thinking they are Orthodox. My site offers more than enough authentic references for the genuine student on such issues. No smiling or eyelash batting here.

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I seem to remember reading, in a letter excerpted at the beginning of HTM's translation of Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit, St. Photius basically saying that shaving was a mere custom and it wasn't an issue to get all in a tiff about. Am I misremembering?
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« Reply #126 on: February 10, 2013, 06:38:26 PM »

I don't see why it would be, to be honest. We don't believe smoking tobacco nor drinking alcohol to be a sin, so why would marijuana be? As much as parents and older folks may deny it, marijuana is actually the least dangerous and unhealthy out of all the aforementioned bad habits. When have you ever seen a man abuse his wife because of marijuana (like we see with alcohol) or become violent or develop cancer (like with tobacco)? The only danger marijuana poses is the potential for getting drawn into heavier drugs, but even then, that same logic could be applied to anything.
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« Reply #127 on: February 10, 2013, 06:41:13 PM »

Legalities come into play, IMO. As well as abusing Christian freedom--all things are permissable, but not all things are profitable; if it makes someone stumble...

[insert slippery slope argument here]
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« Reply #128 on: February 10, 2013, 06:47:05 PM »

I don't see why it would be, to be honest. We don't believe smoking tobacco nor drinking alcohol to be a sin, so why would marijuana be? As much as parents and older folks may deny it, marijuana is actually the least dangerous and unhealthy out of all the aforementioned bad habits. When have you ever seen a man abuse his wife because of marijuana (like we see with alcohol) or become violent or develop cancer (like with tobacco)? The only danger marijuana poses is the potential for getting drawn into heavier drugs, but even then, that same logic could be applied to anything.

In my area people have been killed or injured in road traffic collisions, and other youngsters affected by marijuana induced psychosis. Driving while under the influence of marijuana is as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol.

Being drunk, smoking tobacco or partaking of recreational drugs were always heavily discouraged by Greeks around me especially as sinful.
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« Reply #129 on: February 10, 2013, 06:50:28 PM »

I would rather buy some good beer than weed. But, whenever offered, I don't turn it down either. Although it doesn't do much for me, really.
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« Reply #130 on: February 10, 2013, 06:52:39 PM »

Bob Marley died from cancer and he was only in his late 30s.

Since pot isn't legal in some places, it's not being studied by the top labs and universities. So we don't have a lot of peer-reviewed studies done by people with no vested interest in its sales. We just have anecdotes from people who like to get high.

Of course people aren't going to talk a lot about the times they got high, fell asleep behind the wheel, wrecked the car and got arrested. Why? Because that stuff's embarrassing.

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« Reply #131 on: February 10, 2013, 11:19:16 PM »

In my area people have been killed or injured in road traffic collisions, and other youngsters affected by marijuana induced psychosis. Driving while under the influence of marijuana is as bad as driving under the influence of alcohol.

Maybe so; I wouldn't deny that. However, in non-driving circumstances, I would say that being under the influence of marijuana is much preferable to being drunk. As I earlier stated, when is the last time you ever heard of a man abusing his wife because he was under marijuana? Never; because it relaxes you. Whereas, I could think of several instances where alcoholics have abused their wives while drunk or become violent. Admittedly, smoking marijuana excessively could be a problem, but as long as you aren't smoking it on the level of Bob Marley, I don't see many health risks.

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Being drunk, smoking tobacco or partaking of recreational drugs were always heavily discouraged by Greeks around me especially as sinful.

Meh. Greeks have also told me before that Odysseus was a prophet from God, that lamb doesn't count as meat when fasting and that God wants us to speak Greek; don't believe everything a couple of Greek weirdos tell you.
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« Reply #132 on: February 11, 2013, 12:02:17 AM »

Yeah, but you say that about shaving too. Roll Eyes

The Iconoclasts were beard shavers, beard shaving was 1 of 5 reasons for the Great Schism between the Pope and Orthodox (the Greeks were shocked that the Latin's started shaving). The Seventh Ecumenical Council declares that Christians are to imitate Christ. No Apostle, nor their successors, shaved. In the Lives of the Saints it is said that shaving is effeminate. If people desire to be unorthodox that is their choice, but they cannot fool everyone into thinking they are Orthodox. My site offers more than enough authentic references for the genuine student on such issues. No smiling or eyelash batting here.

Forgive, John

I seem to remember reading, in a letter excerpted at the beginning of HTM's translation of Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit, St. Photius basically saying that shaving was a mere custom and it wasn't an issue to get all in a tiff about. Am I misremembering?
Maybe you're misremembering that Mr. Alden submitted that post over four years ago. Wink
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« Reply #133 on: February 11, 2013, 01:01:35 AM »

Meh. Greeks have also told me before that Odysseus was a prophet from God, that lamb doesn't count as meat when fasting and that God wants us to speak Greek; don't believe everything a couple of Greek weirdos tell you.
What?  I'm Greek and aside from the speaking Greek part I've never heard any of this before.
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« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2013, 03:12:21 AM »

Bob Marley died from cancer and he was only in his late 30s.

Since pot isn't legal in some places, it's not being studied by the top labs and universities. So we don't have a lot of peer-reviewed studies done by people with no vested interest in its sales. We just have anecdotes from people who like to get high.

Of course people aren't going to talk a lot about the times they got high, fell asleep behind the wheel, wrecked the car and got arrested. Why? Because that stuff's embarrassing.




There is no evidence that Bob Marley's cancer was in any way related to his marijuana smoking. The cancer began in his toe after sustaining an injury playing soccer. It then spread throughout his body. I don't mention this to defend marijuana use. I just want to make sure that people don't assume Bob's cancer was related to marijuana use.


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