OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 23, 2014, 11:20:53 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is smoking marijuana a sin?  (Read 37259 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #765 on: August 06, 2013, 02:05:47 AM »

you all need to get a sense of humor.
You think people should develop a sense of humor about sin?
Only if what you call sin really is sin.
Perhaps those who make claim something is not sin should be equally prepared to prove their claim rather than play at deflection.  It's like chess, you don't win if you are always on the defensive.  You also can't claim "not sin" by pretending all burden of proof is in the lap of others.  
But can you point out one time when I ever said that smoking marijuana is not a sin? No, you cannot, for I never asserted any such thing. I asked you repeatedly to prove your claim that smoking marijuana even once IS a sin. Now stop dodging and answer my question.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 02:06:31 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #766 on: August 06, 2013, 02:09:21 AM »

you all need to get a sense of humor.
You think people should develop a sense of humor about sin?
Only if what you call sin really is sin.
Perhaps those who make claim something is not sin should be equally prepared to prove their claim rather than play at deflection.  It's like chess, you don't win if you are always on the defensive.  You also can't claim "not sin" by pretending all burden of proof is in the lap of others.  
But can you point out one time when I ever said that smoking marijuana is not a sin? No, you cannot, for I never asserted any such thing. I asked you repeatedly to prove your claim that smoking marijuana even once IS a sin. Now stop dodging and answer my question.
Deflection, again, not only of what I posted but of everything posted in this tread in opposition to getting high on MJ and commonalities from within Christian teaching as a whole. 
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #767 on: August 06, 2013, 02:13:00 AM »

you all need to get a sense of humor.
You think people should develop a sense of humor about sin?
Only if what you call sin really is sin.
Perhaps those who make claim something is not sin should be equally prepared to prove their claim rather than play at deflection.  It's like chess, you don't win if you are always on the defensive.  You also can't claim "not sin" by pretending all burden of proof is in the lap of others.  
But can you point out one time when I ever said that smoking marijuana is not a sin? No, you cannot, for I never asserted any such thing. I asked you repeatedly to prove your claim that smoking marijuana even once IS a sin. Now stop dodging and answer my question.
Deflection, again, not only of what I posted but of everything posted in this tread in opposition to getting high on MJ and commonalities from within Christian teaching as a whole.  
Oh, now that's ripe! Deflecting my question by accusing me of deflection. You have never answered my question directly. What evidence can you post that smoking marijuana even once is a sin, even when there's no desire to get high?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 02:15:44 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #768 on: August 06, 2013, 04:15:37 AM »

The difference is, as smoking pot has no 'moderate level' that does not include intoxication

Lies.
If its a lie (it isn't), what's the purpose of MJ?

What's the purpose of alcohol?

And how do you know that you can't be a little bit high from MJ?

MJ, just like I wrote.  Please answer the question.  I'm fairly tired of diversionary tactics.  Sadly, seems that is all people have left to offer these days in way of dialogue.

The purpose of MJ is to have a good time.

The purpose of MJ is to get high.
And this is where you're wrong. You would be more correct to say that some people use MJ to get high.
No, what I said was accurate.
Then you would have to say that God created marijuana for the purpose of making us high. That's ridiculous! God didn't create marijuana to be an opportunity for us to sin. God didn't create marijuana as something evil. To say that He did is to attribute evil to God Himself, which is a heretical thing to do. It's our misuse of marijuana that's evil.

Would I?  Maybe it is even more simple than that, which you seem to fail to grasp.  Who is to say God created MJ for us to consume at all?  No one.  Its creation I am certain has a purpose unrelated to our consumption of it.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 04:33:24 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #769 on: August 06, 2013, 04:32:33 AM »

you all need to get a sense of humor.
You think people should develop a sense of humor about sin?
Only if what you call sin really is sin.
Perhaps those who make claim something is not sin should be equally prepared to prove their claim rather than play at deflection.  It's like chess, you don't win if you are always on the defensive.  You also can't claim "not sin" by pretending all burden of proof is in the lap of others.  
But can you point out one time when I ever said that smoking marijuana is not a sin? No, you cannot, for I never asserted any such thing. I asked you repeatedly to prove your claim that smoking marijuana even once IS a sin. Now stop dodging and answer my question.
Deflection, again, not only of what I posted but of everything posted in this tread in opposition to getting high on MJ and commonalities from within Christian teaching as a whole.  
Oh, now that's ripe! Deflecting my question by accusing me of deflection. You have never answered my question directly. What evidence can you post that smoking marijuana even once is a sin, even when there's no desire to get high?

Because you didn't like the answer in no way means I did not provide you with that answer.  It just means you are being picky which is fine, but only to a point.

Here is the problem Peter, not with MJ, but with you.

When a person puts forth their view you attack it, but offer no view of your own which in your mind (Yes, I know I can't read minds.  Only you can) means you are protected.  You aren’t.  There is an old saying, "If you don’t have a solution to the problem, don’t complain about the problem."  In other words, unless you have a view to submit, don’t complain about others views.

Then you ask for an explanation of that view and when it is given you claim it isn’t good enough (for that person to develop a view???), but that is a personal opinion of yours which you attempt to project onto others.  Last I checked, your personal opinion doesn’t invalidate others opinions or is in any way better than another opinion.

Then you ask for proof.  When proof is given, you say it isn’t enough to convince you, which again is fine, but only to a point.  You say you disagree.  Fine, explain what you do believe, why you believe it and provide the type of proof you demand of others.  If not, you should probably keep quiet.  

What you are doing is one of four things.

One – Playing devil’s advocate.  Childs games.
Two – You get some twisted enjoyment in attempting to manipulate others.  Childs games.
Three – You have no opinion and simply want to be included in the discussion so you take the safest way to be included without having to be put on the defensive.  Childs games.
Four – You toss out all common sense when it involves the overall teaching of Christianity and because Jesus did not specifically say, “Thou shalt not smoke from the pot”, and pretend there are no underlying lessons taught anywhere else is all of Christendom which could be applied to the topic when clearly there are.  Childs games.

So, again, you have a fondness of telling others they should add something substantial to the discussion, but you have yet to do so yourself.  All you have done is lay out a circle of questions and keep asking them claiming nothing is good enough for you.  If you do have something substantial to submit to the discussion, please put it forth for others to scrutinize in the same way you scrutinize them.  Otherwise, stop hiding behind your own rules which change to suit you as the discussion progresses.  More child’s games.  Keep your sophistry to yourself and stop trying to be a circumventor.

And to, yet again, address your question of showing where smoking pot just once is a sin I will explain in a way which you still refuse to acknowledge.  MJ was and still is illegal in most states, and still illegal federally; therefore, it is a violation of law to consume it period, making that consumption sinful because unless man’s law contradicts Gods law, we are commanded to respect them.  If you smoke it once in this country, for any reason, it's criminal and it’s sin, regardless if you think the law is just or not.  And this is just the beginning of why it’s wrong.  But please, ignore this inconvenient truth.  In other words, deflect.  That would be ripe.  What next, will you still say I didn't answer your question when clearly it has been answered?  
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 04:41:26 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #770 on: August 06, 2013, 04:44:35 AM »

And if you want to talk about fallacies, you can start with the senseless desire to compare MJ with wine.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 04:46:34 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Deep Roots
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Catholic
Posts: 370


« Reply #771 on: August 06, 2013, 09:49:00 AM »

You all are hilarious.
Logged

Peace.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #772 on: August 06, 2013, 12:23:05 PM »

The difference is, as smoking pot has no 'moderate level' that does not include intoxication

Lies.
If its a lie (it isn't), what's the purpose of MJ?

What's the purpose of alcohol?

And how do you know that you can't be a little bit high from MJ?

MJ, just like I wrote.  Please answer the question.  I'm fairly tired of diversionary tactics.  Sadly, seems that is all people have left to offer these days in way of dialogue.

The purpose of MJ is to have a good time.

The purpose of MJ is to get high.
And this is where you're wrong. You would be more correct to say that some people use MJ to get high.
No, what I said was accurate.
Then you would have to say that God created marijuana for the purpose of making us high. That's ridiculous! God didn't create marijuana to be an opportunity for us to sin. God didn't create marijuana as something evil. To say that He did is to attribute evil to God Himself, which is a heretical thing to do. It's our misuse of marijuana that's evil.

Would I?  Maybe it is even more simple than that, which you seem to fail to grasp.  Who is to say God created MJ for us to consume at all?  No one.
Certainly not me, nor am I saying God created marijuana for any other purpose.

Its creation I am certain has a purpose unrelated to our consumption of it.
That's possible, but how are you so certain of yourself?
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #773 on: August 06, 2013, 12:54:22 PM »

you all need to get a sense of humor.
You think people should develop a sense of humor about sin?
Only if what you call sin really is sin.
Perhaps those who make claim something is not sin should be equally prepared to prove their claim rather than play at deflection.  It's like chess, you don't win if you are always on the defensive.  You also can't claim "not sin" by pretending all burden of proof is in the lap of others.  
But can you point out one time when I ever said that smoking marijuana is not a sin? No, you cannot, for I never asserted any such thing. I asked you repeatedly to prove your claim that smoking marijuana even once IS a sin. Now stop dodging and answer my question.
Deflection, again, not only of what I posted but of everything posted in this tread in opposition to getting high on MJ and commonalities from within Christian teaching as a whole.  
Oh, now that's ripe! Deflecting my question by accusing me of deflection. You have never answered my question directly. What evidence can you post that smoking marijuana even once is a sin, even when there's no desire to get high?

Because you didn't like the answer in no way means I did not provide you with that answer.
No, in this case it means you have made no effort to answer the question. All you've done is dodge, dodge, dodge.

It just means you are being picky which is fine, but only to a point.

Here is the problem Peter, not with MJ, but with you.

When a person puts forth their view you attack it,
If I were really to attack another person's position, I would say it's wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong about marijuana. I'm just questioning your point of view because I'm not convinced that you're right, either. I want to know more.

but offer no view of your own which in your mind (Yes, I know I can't read minds.  Only you can) means you are protected.  You aren’t.  There is an old saying, "If you don’t have a solution to the problem, don’t complain about the problem."  In other words, unless you have a view to submit, don’t complain about others views.
The only thing I'm complaining about, Kerdy, is that you seem unable to articulate your view in a cogent manner.

Then you ask for an explanation of that view and when it is given you claim it isn’t good enough (for that person to develop a view???), but that is a personal opinion of yours which you attempt to project onto others.
I don't care if you believe your point of view. When you try to convince us to embrace your point of view and judge us as lacking discernment for rejecting it, then you need to put forth arguments that will convince us. I've been wheedling you for those arguments, but so far you've not been forthcoming with them.

Last I checked, your personal opinion doesn’t invalidate others opinions or is in any way better than another opinion.
In this case, I'm not saying I even have an opinion. I just don't find your arguments in favor of your opinion satisfactory.

Then you ask for proof.  When proof is given, you say it isn’t enough to convince you, which again is fine, but only to a point.
Humor me, Kerdy. So much of the time you spend arguing why I should find the "proof" you've offered satisfactory could be much better spent just offering the proof I'm actually looking for. I say your arguments are not convincing. What are you doing to convince me?

You say you disagree.
No. I say that you give me no proof to disagree with.

Fine, explain what you do believe, why you believe it and provide the type of proof you demand of others.  If not, you should probably keep quiet.
No, answer my question or keep quiet. I'm trying to get rational arguments from you, and all you do is engage in dodge ball tactics to protect your emotionalism and self-righteous judgmentalism. This isn't your thread that you can dictate who can and should not speak.

What you are doing is one of four things.

One – Playing devil’s advocate.  Childs games.
Two – You get some twisted enjoyment in attempting to manipulate others.  Childs games.
Three – You have no opinion and simply want to be included in the discussion so you take the safest way to be included without having to be put on the defensive.  Childs games.
Four – You toss out all common sense when it involves the overall teaching of Christianity and because Jesus did not specifically say, “Thou shalt not smoke from the pot”, and pretend there are no underlying lessons taught anywhere else is all of Christendom which could be applied to the topic when clearly there are.  Childs games.
Maybe rather than try to fit me into one of your four categories, you could actually read my posts to see what I'm really trying to communicate.

So, again, you have a fondness of telling others they should add something substantial to the discussion, but you have yet to do so yourself.
You do notice that the only posters I've pestered on this thread are those who have asserted most stridently that the smoking of marijuana is a sin but won't explain why except to say it's a sin?

All you have done is lay out a circle of questions and keep asking them claiming nothing is good enough for you.
Well, read my question again and give me an answer you think might satisfy me. I've not seen you make such effort so far.

If you do have something substantial to submit to the discussion, please put it forth for others to scrutinize in the same way you scrutinize them.
I don't have anything substantial to add to this discussion, but you haven't shown that you do, either.

Otherwise, stop hiding behind your own rules which change to suit you as the discussion progresses.
I'm not changing any rules.

More child’s games.  Keep your sophistry to yourself and stop trying to be a circumventor.

And to, yet again, address your question of showing where smoking pot just once is a sin I will explain in a way which you still refuse to acknowledge.
How can I refuse to acknowledge an argument I've never seen you post before.

MJ was and still is illegal in most states, and still illegal federally; therefore, it is a violation of law to consume it period, making that consumption sinful because unless man’s law contradicts Gods law, we are commanded to respect them.  If you smoke it once in this country, for any reason, it's criminal and it’s sin, regardless if you think the law is just or not.  And this is just the beginning of why it’s wrong.  But please, ignore this inconvenient truth.  In other words, deflect.  That would be ripe.  What next, will you still say I didn't answer your question when clearly it has been answered?
Finally, you've given me an answer I can truly say is satisfactory. Why did it take you so long? You could have said this the first time I asked my question and saved yourself a lot of time having to wrangle with me. Now you finally give us a rational point we can discuss.


I think Schultz has articulated best my style of questioning and debate. Maybe you should read what he has to say so you can learn how to relate properly to my style.
It still amazes me, after all this time, that people mistake PtA's often friendly (meaning, generally supportive of the premise) insistence on the use of more authoritative sources than one's own personal opinion as some sort of argument against the premise.

He may be a bit anal about sourcing, but he's not arguing with you.  More often than not, he's trying to help you argue whatever you're saying better.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 01:06:31 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #774 on: August 06, 2013, 01:18:33 PM »

MJ was and still is illegal in most states, and still illegal federally; therefore, it is a violation of law to consume it period, making that consumption sinful because unless man’s law contradicts Gods law, we are commanded to respect them.  If you smoke it once in this country, for any reason, it's criminal and it’s sin, regardless if you think the law is just or not.  And this is just the beginning of why it’s wrong.  But please, ignore this inconvenient truth.  In other words, deflect.  That would be ripe.  What next, will you still say I didn't answer your question when clearly it has been answered?
Finally, you've given me an answer I can truly say is satisfactory. Why did it take you so long? You could have said this the first time I asked my question and saved yourself a lot of time having to wrangle with me. Now you finally give us a rational point we can discuss.

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 03:25:31 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #775 on: August 07, 2013, 05:35:41 AM »

MJ was and still is illegal in most states, and still illegal federally; therefore, it is a violation of law to consume it period, making that consumption sinful because unless man’s law contradicts Gods law, we are commanded to respect them.  If you smoke it once in this country, for any reason, it's criminal and it’s sin, regardless if you think the law is just or not.  And this is just the beginning of why it’s wrong.  But please, ignore this inconvenient truth.  In other words, deflect.  That would be ripe.  What next, will you still say I didn't answer your question when clearly it has been answered?
Finally, you've given me an answer I can truly say is satisfactory. Why did it take you so long? You could have said this the first time I asked my question and saved yourself a lot of time having to wrangle with me. Now you finally give us a rational point we can discuss.

Yes, finally.  Although dare I say that Kerdy is side-stepping the real issue?  I don't think he is actually addressing the problem.  Here's why: this argumentation is really saying that it is a sin to break the law, more-so than it being a sin to smoke marijuana.  


Quote
That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?


This is the question that Kerdy's line of argument begs.  Sadly, it's been asked repeatedly already.  I hope for an actual answer, but I have also prepared myself for glib responses, smiley faces or torrents of judgement instead.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 05:51:42 AM by john_mo » Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #776 on: August 07, 2013, 05:54:45 AM »

What's with this finally stuff?  I've said as much multiple times here on OC.net.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #777 on: August 07, 2013, 06:09:19 AM »

you all need to get a sense of humor.
You think people should develop a sense of humor about sin?
Only if what you call sin really is sin.
Perhaps those who make claim something is not sin should be equally prepared to prove their claim rather than play at deflection.  It's like chess, you don't win if you are always on the defensive.  You also can't claim "not sin" by pretending all burden of proof is in the lap of others.  
But can you point out one time when I ever said that smoking marijuana is not a sin? No, you cannot, for I never asserted any such thing. I asked you repeatedly to prove your claim that smoking marijuana even once IS a sin. Now stop dodging and answer my question.
Deflection, again, not only of what I posted but of everything posted in this tread in opposition to getting high on MJ and commonalities from within Christian teaching as a whole.  
Oh, now that's ripe! Deflecting my question by accusing me of deflection. You have never answered my question directly. What evidence can you post that smoking marijuana even once is a sin, even when there's no desire to get high?

Because you didn't like the answer in no way means I did not provide you with that answer.  It just means you are being picky which is fine, but only to a point.

Here is the problem Peter, not with MJ, but with you.

When a person puts forth their view you attack it, but offer no view of your own which in your mind (Yes, I know I can't read minds.  Only you can) means you are protected.  You aren’t.  There is an old saying, "If you don’t have a solution to the problem, don’t complain about the problem."  In other words, unless you have a view to submit, don’t complain about others views.

Then you ask for an explanation of that view and when it is given you claim it isn’t good enough (for that person to develop a view???), but that is a personal opinion of yours which you attempt to project onto others.  Last I checked, your personal opinion doesn’t invalidate others opinions or is in any way better than another opinion.

Then you ask for proof.  When proof is given, you say it isn’t enough to convince you, which again is fine, but only to a point.  You say you disagree.  Fine, explain what you do believe, why you believe it and provide the type of proof you demand of others.  If not, you should probably keep quiet.  

What you are doing is one of four things.

One – Playing devil’s advocate.  Childs games.
Two – You get some twisted enjoyment in attempting to manipulate others.  Childs games.
Three – You have no opinion and simply want to be included in the discussion so you take the safest way to be included without having to be put on the defensive.  Childs games.
Four – You toss out all common sense when it involves the overall teaching of Christianity and because Jesus did not specifically say, “Thou shalt not smoke from the pot”, and pretend there are no underlying lessons taught anywhere else is all of Christendom which could be applied to the topic when clearly there are.  Childs games.

So, again, you have a fondness of telling others they should add something substantial to the discussion, but you have yet to do so yourself.  All you have done is lay out a circle of questions and keep asking them claiming nothing is good enough for you.  If you do have something substantial to submit to the discussion, please put it forth for others to scrutinize in the same way you scrutinize them.  Otherwise, stop hiding behind your own rules which change to suit you as the discussion progresses.  More child’s games.  Keep your sophistry to yourself and stop trying to be a circumventor.

And to, yet again, address your question of showing where smoking pot just once is a sin I will explain in a way which you still refuse to acknowledge.  MJ was and still is illegal in most states, and still illegal federally; therefore, it is a violation of law to consume it period, making that consumption sinful because unless man’s law contradicts Gods law, we are commanded to respect them.  If you smoke it once in this country, for any reason, it's criminal and it’s sin, regardless if you think the law is just or not.  And this is just the beginning of why it’s wrong.  But please, ignore this inconvenient truth.  In other words, deflect.  That would be ripe.  What next, will you still say I didn't answer your question when clearly it has been answered?  


Nothing has changed.
Logged
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #778 on: August 07, 2013, 06:12:37 AM »

What's with this finally stuff?  I've said as much multiple times here on OC.net.

Good point.  You are right, you have said this before. In fact, this has been your strongest argument IMO.

I think we are just glad that you provided a thought-out argument rather than mere opinion giving without justification. 

« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 06:13:07 AM by john_mo » Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #779 on: August 07, 2013, 06:15:04 AM »

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?

This is the question that Kerdy's line of argument begs.  Sadly, it's been asked repeatedly already.  I hope for an actual answer, but I have also prepared myself for glib responses, smiley faces or torrents of judgement instead.


Nothing has changed.

Well...this is awkward...

« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 06:20:31 AM by john_mo » Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #780 on: August 07, 2013, 06:32:33 AM »

What's with this finally stuff?  I've said as much multiple times here on OC.net.

Good point.  You are right, you have said this before. In fact, this has been your strongest argument IMO.

I think we are just glad that you provided a thought-out argument rather than mere opinion giving without justification. 


I provided it some time ago, it was ignored then.  I'm not sure what changed.

The justification provided for my opinion is at least as valid as the justification you have given for your opinion.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #781 on: August 07, 2013, 06:34:04 AM »

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?

This is the question that Kerdy's line of argument begs.  Sadly, it's been asked repeatedly already.  I hope for an actual answer, but I have also prepared myself for glib responses, smiley faces or torrents of judgement instead.


Nothing has changed.

Well...this is awkward...


What's awkward is Christians thinking its ok to get high.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #782 on: August 07, 2013, 06:35:35 AM »

Tell me John, do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
Logged
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #783 on: August 07, 2013, 06:41:44 AM »

Tell me John, do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?

You are dodging the question again.  I will happily answer you once you finally address this:

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?

This is the obvious question to your view that it is wrong because it is illegal. 

And please don't just give another one-liner.
Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #784 on: August 07, 2013, 07:07:28 AM »

You are dodging the question again. 

Seems like you dodged the question.  No surprise.
Logged
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #785 on: August 07, 2013, 07:37:06 AM »

What's with this finally stuff?  I've said as much multiple times here on OC.net.

Good point.  You are right, you have said this before. In fact, this has been your strongest argument IMO.

I think we are just glad that you provided a thought-out argument rather than mere opinion giving without justification. 


I provided it some time ago, it was ignored then.  I'm not sure what changed.

The justification provided for my opinion is at least as valid as the justification you have given for your opinion.

The question is whether you think it is a sin to smoke marijuana in a country where it is legal.  And why.

If you answered the question before, then why not just answer it again?  Better yet, just cut and paste it. 

You are dodging the question again. 

Seems like you dodged the question.  No surprise.

How did I dodge the question?  I said I would answer your (new) question to me, if you would answer our (old) question to you.  You clearly don't want to answer the question and are not really interested in my answer to your question.  But I could be wrong.

Tell you what, I will answer your question first if you answer our question to afterwards.  Deal?

Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #786 on: August 07, 2013, 07:50:25 AM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.  In fact, if those are too difficult, I have another one you should answer.  When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.  

Three questions:
-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

When you answer these three questions, you can ask me something instead of relying on someone else to ask questions.  Now is your chance to defend your position.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 07:51:20 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #787 on: August 07, 2013, 07:53:04 AM »

Tell me John, do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?

You are dodging the question again.  I will happily answer you once you finally address this:

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?
Finally?  He just posted it.
Logged
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #788 on: August 07, 2013, 08:07:25 AM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.  In fact, if those are too difficult, I have another one you should answer.  When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.  

Three questions:
-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

When you answer these three questions, you can ask me something instead of relying on someone else to ask questions.  Now is your chance to defend your position.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?

This was not the question that I was referring to, and I think you know it.  So you couldn't get confused I kept pasting the actual question into my messages.  I made it crystal clear.

Again, the question we want you to answer was made by Peter in post 774 of this thread and it was...

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?

As I said, I will answer your question first if you give me your word that you will answer the question directly above, specifically the part in bold.  Do you agree?  And if you do not agree, please explain how I could possibly be dodging.

Tell me John, do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?

You are dodging the question again.  I will happily answer you once you finally address this:

That said, your logic, if true, is true only in the United States. What about those countries of this world that don't criminalize the smoking of pot (a particularly important question, since OCnet is truly an international discussion board)? Is it still a sin in those countries to smoke pot even once and without the intent to get high? If so, why? If not, why not?
Finally?  He just posted it.

No, he posted it yesterday, and you've made eight posts since yet still haven't answered it.  And there is nothing stopping you from answer it now.    Plus, I and others have asked this question even before so it's not new.  
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 08:09:51 AM by john_mo » Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #789 on: August 07, 2013, 08:08:16 AM »

Yep, dodge...
Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Posts: 8,923


Ceci n'est pas une pipe


« Reply #790 on: August 07, 2013, 08:31:32 AM »

Even if it weren't a sin you probably still shouldn't be smoking pot.
Logged

"Copiare il vero può essere una buona cosa, ma inventare il vero è meglio, molto meglio. "
-Giuseppe Verdi
john_mo
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 762



« Reply #791 on: August 07, 2013, 08:41:45 AM »

Yep, dodge...

Really?!
Logged

Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #792 on: August 07, 2013, 08:48:04 AM »

Unfortunately, yes you really did dodge.

I'm wondering if Peter will as well.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 08:48:48 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Deep Roots
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Catholic
Posts: 370


« Reply #793 on: August 07, 2013, 09:17:45 AM »

Even if it weren't a sin you probably still shouldn't be smoking pot.
perhaps.

or eating burgers...drinking vodka...watching television...
Logged

Peace.
Timon
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,490



« Reply #794 on: August 07, 2013, 09:40:27 AM »

We should always keep our minds as clear as possible.

Dope?  Nope!
Logged

Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

— Chrysostom

BLOG
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #795 on: August 07, 2013, 12:21:00 PM »

What's with this finally stuff?  I've said as much multiple times here on OC.net.

Good point.  You are right, you have said this before. In fact, this has been your strongest argument IMO.

I think we are just glad that you provided a thought-out argument rather than mere opinion giving without justification. 


I provided it some time ago, it was ignored then.  I'm not sure what changed.
Nothing has changed except that you cited an argument other than "I say so."
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #796 on: August 07, 2013, 12:23:41 PM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.
He doesn't have to answer your questions, since you're now dodging another question I asked you following your answer to my previous question.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?
I'm not going to answer your question until you first answer mine. Regardless of whether the smoking of marijuana is legal, is it still a sin to smoke it even once and without the intent to get high? Why or why not? Until you answer that question, I will not answer yours. If you've already answered this question before, then either quote or copy-and-paste the answer you submitted previously.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 12:38:38 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #797 on: August 07, 2013, 02:42:52 PM »

-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

Putting legality issue aside, 3 x yes provided it's done in moderation, not very often etc. Same like alcohol.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 02:43:05 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #798 on: August 07, 2013, 06:10:01 PM »

What's with this finally stuff?  I've said as much multiple times here on OC.net.

Good point.  You are right, you have said this before. In fact, this has been your strongest argument IMO.

I think we are just glad that you provided a thought-out argument rather than mere opinion giving without justification. 


I provided it some time ago, it was ignored then.  I'm not sure what changed.
Nothing has changed except that you cited an argument other than "I say so."
Something changed because you accepted that point this time and ignored it previously.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #799 on: August 07, 2013, 06:11:07 PM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.
He doesn't have to answer your questions, since you're now dodging another question I asked you following your answer to my previous question.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?
I'm not going to answer your question until you first answer mine. Regardless of whether the smoking of marijuana is legal, is it still a sin to smoke it even once and without the intent to get high? Why or why not? Until you answer that question, I will not answer yours. If you've already answered this question before, then either quote or copy-and-paste the answer you submitted previously.
Roll Eyes
I'll respond to this when I have time.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #800 on: August 07, 2013, 09:54:49 PM »

He doesn't have to answer your questions, since you're now dodging another question I asked you following your answer to my previous question.
 
And I don’t have to answer yours or anyone elses.  See how this works?  Crazy, huh?

I’m dodging nothing.  Last I checked, you don’t get the monopoly on asking questions.  You ask, someone answers and you follow up with a response to that answer with another question skipping the part where you actually have to defend your own views or answer questions.  Wrong.  You can put your behind in the hot seat for a change or expect nothing else in return.


I'm not going to answer your question until you first answer mine.
I did, now get busy answering my question.

Regardless of whether the smoking of marijuana is legal, is it still a sin to smoke it even once and without the intent to get high? Why or why not? Until you answer that question, I will not answer yours. If you've already answered this question before, then either quote or copy-and-paste the answer you submitted previously.
Thats a different question.  I see, PTA rules only work for PTA.  Got it.  Unless you can actually contribute, don’t ask any more questions.  As you said, no one has to answer questions.  Now, answer mine or I won’t answer anymore of yours.  It stinks when you are required to play by your own guidlines, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 10:00:19 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #801 on: August 07, 2013, 09:55:32 PM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.  In fact, if those are too difficult, I have another one you should answer.  When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.  

Three questions:
-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

When you answer these three questions, you can ask me something instead of relying on someone else to ask questions.  Now is your chance to defend your position.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?

Still waiting John and Peter.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #802 on: August 07, 2013, 09:58:36 PM »

-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

Putting legality issue aside, 3 x yes provided it's done in moderation, not very often etc. Same like alcohol.

You say its ok to smoke pot, there is nothing wrong with it and it’s acceptable for Christians to get high for the sake of getting high.  Perhaps you can elaborate on this and explain your answers and provide supporting evidence for your answers with examples, writings, research, etc.  Something.  Take one at a time so the answers don’t get confusing.

When is it ok to smoke pot?
How do you know for certain there is nothing wrong with pot?
When is it ok for a Christian to get high for the sake of getting high?
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #803 on: August 07, 2013, 10:20:05 PM »

If a person does not have a terminal illness as an excuse to smoke MJ and the only reason they would smoke it is to get high, how is this acceptable?

Come on folks…you advocates really should be able to do as you demand of others and back up your claims.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #804 on: August 07, 2013, 10:37:19 PM »

He doesn't have to answer your questions, since you're now dodging another question I asked you following your answer to my previous question.
 
And I don’t have to answer yours or anyone elses.  See how this works?  Crazy, huh?

I’m dodging nothing.  Last I checked, you don’t get the monopoly on asking questions.
Never said I did have such a monopoly, but when you are asked a question, the rules of polite debate require you to answer the question before you can ask a question of your own. When you answered my last question, I replied to your answer with another question, which is my prerogative. That puts the ball back on your side of the court, and you don't get to answer a question with a question.

You ask, someone answers and you follow up with a response to that answer with another question skipping the part where you actually have to defend your own views or answer questions.  Wrong.  You can put your behind in the hot seat for a change or expect nothing else in return.
Fine, if that's the way you want to play. I'm still not answering your question until you first answer mine.

I'm not going to answer your question until you first answer mine.
I did, now get busy answering my question.
No, you have to answer my question in a way that satisfies me that you're actually answering the question. You don't get to tell me that you answered and push the ball down my throat. The ball is in your court. It's your turn to hit it. So far you haven't even tried.

Regardless of whether the smoking of marijuana is legal, is it still a sin to smoke it even once and without the intent to get high? Why or why not? Until you answer that question, I will not answer yours. If you've already answered this question before, then either quote or copy-and-paste the answer you submitted previously.
Thats a different question.  I see, PTA rules only work for PTA.  Got it.  Unless you can actually contribute, don’t ask any more questions.  As you said, no one has to answer questions.  Now, answer mine or I won’t answer anymore of yours.  It stinks when you are required to play by your own guidlines, doesn't it?
No. I'm not asserting anything or advocating any position, so I have nothing to prove. You, however, are asserting that the smoking of marijuana is a sin. Therefore, it's your burden to prove it. That's how debate works. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's certainly your prerogative, but I'm not going to let you push me into answering your questions when the ball is in your court.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 10:43:31 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,839


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #805 on: August 07, 2013, 10:37:53 PM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.  In fact, if those are too difficult, I have another one you should answer.  When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.  

Three questions:
-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

When you answer these three questions, you can ask me something instead of relying on someone else to ask questions.  Now is your chance to defend your position.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?

Still waiting John and Peter.
Don't hold your breath.
Logged
DeniseDenise
Tiredness personified
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen no more!
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,567



« Reply #806 on: August 07, 2013, 10:42:26 PM »

If a person does not have a terminal illness as an excuse to smoke MJ and the only reason they would smoke it is to get high, how is this acceptable?

Come on folks…you advocates really should be able to do as you demand of others and back up your claims.



My question in regards to this line of reasoning is

If assisting in illness pain control is the only reason for a mind altering substance, then how is there any justification for drinking alcohol at all?

While there are differences, sure, both are mood/mind altering, causing a form of intoxication. Both can be abused to the point of addiction.

So riddle me this....why is one 'not a sin' while the other very clearly to you 'is sin'

Logged

Please secure your own oxygen mask before assisting other passengers.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #807 on: August 07, 2013, 10:55:02 PM »

How dare you prohibit my enjoyment.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #808 on: August 07, 2013, 11:15:51 PM »

Peter asked me to show how smoking MJ even once is a sin.  I did that.  Now, answer my questions.  Thanks.  In fact, if those are too difficult, I have another one you should answer.  When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.  

Three questions:
-Do you really thinks its ok for people to smoke pot?  
-Do you really think there is nothing wrong with it?
-When is it acceptable for a Christian to get high for the purpose of getting high.

When you answer these three questions, you can ask me something instead of relying on someone else to ask questions.  Now is your chance to defend your position.

Speaking of which, now I answered Peters question:
 Peter, what is your opinion on whether smoking MJ is a sin?

Still waiting John and Peter.
Don't hold your breath.
This is the point in your life where you start taking your own advice.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #809 on: August 07, 2013, 11:17:10 PM »

He doesn't have to answer your questions, since you're now dodging another question I asked you following your answer to my previous question.
 
And I don’t have to answer yours or anyone elses.  See how this works?  Crazy, huh?

I’m dodging nothing.  Last I checked, you don’t get the monopoly on asking questions.
Never said I did have such a monopoly, but when you are asked a question, the rules of polite debate require you to answer the question before you can ask a question of your own. When you answered my last question, I replied to your answer with another question, which is my prerogative. That puts the ball back on your side of the court, and you don't get to answer a question with a question.

You ask, someone answers and you follow up with a response to that answer with another question skipping the part where you actually have to defend your own views or answer questions.  Wrong.  You can put your behind in the hot seat for a change or expect nothing else in return.
Fine, if that's the way you want to play. I'm still not answering your question until you first answer mine.

I'm not going to answer your question until you first answer mine.
I did, now get busy answering my question.
No, you have to answer my question in a way that satisfies me that you're actually answering the question. You don't get to tell me that you answered and push the ball down my throat. The ball is in your court. It's your turn to hit it. So far you haven't even tried.

Regardless of whether the smoking of marijuana is legal, is it still a sin to smoke it even once and without the intent to get high? Why or why not? Until you answer that question, I will not answer yours. If you've already answered this question before, then either quote or copy-and-paste the answer you submitted previously.
Thats a different question.  I see, PTA rules only work for PTA.  Got it.  Unless you can actually contribute, don’t ask any more questions.  As you said, no one has to answer questions.  Now, answer mine or I won’t answer anymore of yours.  It stinks when you are required to play by your own guidlines, doesn't it?
No. I'm not asserting anything or advocating any position, so I have nothing to prove. You, however, are asserting that the smoking of marijuana is a sin. Therefore, it's your burden to prove it. That's how debate works. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's certainly your prerogative, but I'm not going to let you push me into answering your questions when the ball is in your court.
Dodged again.  Answer the question Peter.
Logged
Tags: sin Orthodox Christian Fellowship marijuana alcohol drugs bee in bonnet pot weed 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.227 seconds with 71 queries.