OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 22, 2014, 12:01:12 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is smoking marijuana a sin?  (Read 39955 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
zaphod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #630 on: July 25, 2013, 11:28:25 AM »

Marijuana destroyed my marriage when my (ex) wife took it up, and it drove her paranoid and crazy, and she decided that everyone (including me) was plotting against her. It destroyed our family and her behavior did untold damage to our kids. In my mind, marijuana is worse than alcohol, heroin and cocaine combined. It drives me crazy that Hollywood portrays this dangerous drug as a harmless bit of fun that the do gooders want to ban. There is nothing safe about this drug.


May I suggest that your wife might have had bigger psychological issues, that marijuana might have just exacerbated ? "cause I hag out with people that smoke pot daily and they just don't behave anywhere like that.

My wife went from normal, to a paranoid freak, totally out of touch with reality, totally out of touch with civilised behaviour. She went from someone who cared about her kids to someone who treated them like dirt and traumatised them in a way that they still haven't recovered from. After this went on for about 4 years and we got divorced, she finally got off the stuff, and then she went back to normal again.

She didn't get like this the first day she was on the stuff. It built up over years. Little by little she was more and more odd, more and more strange. After she'd been on it maybe a year, maybe two (who knows, she didn't announce when she started), the paranoia started to set in, and got worse and worse.

So you hang out with people who smoke it daily and they don't behave like that. Well so what? Lots of people on heroin appear quite normal too. You can say that for basically any drug one might care to name. That really says nothing about whether it is a dangerous drug or not, now does it?


Logged
zaphod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #631 on: July 25, 2013, 11:49:01 AM »

There is a very easy test to see if something is a sin, in this kind of area. You do a thought experiment. If you owned a million dollar racehorse, would you do it to the horse? Would you give it marijuana, cigarettes, lots of whiskey and feed it McDonalds every day? If not, then you shouldn't be doing it to yourself either.
Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Posts: 9,513


Cyrillico est imperare orbi universo


« Reply #632 on: July 25, 2013, 11:53:51 AM »

How do you give marijuana to a horse?
Logged

"And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin
is pride that apes humility."
-Samuel Coleridge
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #633 on: July 25, 2013, 12:02:02 PM »

Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #634 on: July 25, 2013, 12:44:21 PM »

If everyone knows it's sinful, then why are so many people trying to show differently? Huh

For the same reasons they say homosexuality is ok, or adultery, or fornication, or drunkenness, or anything else they know is wrong.  So they will have no guilt.

Merely saying it's wrong doesn't make it wrong.

True.  Being wrong makes it wrong.

You were asked for proof of your claim that smoking pot even once is a sin, and all you can offer is "because I say so". How disappointing. Roll Eyes

If that is how you see it, good for you for ignoring what I said.
I've not ignored what you said. What you said doesn't prove anything.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #635 on: July 25, 2013, 12:45:27 PM »

The difference is, as smoking pot has no 'moderate level' that does not include intoxication

Lies.
If its a lie (it isn't), what's the purpose of MJ?

What's the purpose of alcohol?

And how do you know that you can't be a little bit high from MJ?

MJ, just like I wrote.  Please answer the question.  I'm fairly tired of diversionary tactics.  Sadly, seems that is all people have left to offer these days in way of dialogue.

The purpose of MJ is to have a good time.

The purpose of MJ is to get high.
And this is where you're wrong. You would be more correct to say that some people use MJ to get high.
Logged
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,384



« Reply #636 on: July 25, 2013, 01:24:14 PM »

I'd be curious to know in asking if marijuana or anything is a sin, what would be the definition of sin?
Logged

Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,774


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #637 on: July 25, 2013, 01:25:13 PM »

Didn't Afroman say everything that really needs to be said on this question in his classic song "Because I Got High"?  
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,384



« Reply #638 on: July 25, 2013, 01:27:29 PM »

Didn't Afroman say everything that really needs to be said on this question in his classic song "Because I Got High"?  

Songs that are written when you are high don't matter because they come from a parallel universe.  Smiley
By the way, Mor Ephrem, you should know that since I speak Romanian, your nickname means "I am dying, Ephrem"; this hits me every time I see your name. Smiley
Logged

Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,774


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #639 on: July 25, 2013, 01:30:36 PM »

"I am dying, Ephrem"...awesome! 
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,635



« Reply #640 on: July 25, 2013, 02:15:21 PM »

I'd be curious to know in asking if marijuana or anything is a sin, what would be the definition of sin?
sin is a pretty useless category in this discussion.
Logged
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,384



« Reply #641 on: July 25, 2013, 02:21:17 PM »

I'd be curious to know in asking if marijuana or anything is a sin, what would be the definition of sin?
sin is a pretty useless category in this discussion.

Thank you! That saves me the energy to offer an answer... Smiley
Logged

Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #642 on: July 25, 2013, 05:36:00 PM »

How do you give marijuana to a horse?
Chocolate Cake.  (As in, nothing to do with what was said)
Logged
Arachne
Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 4,490


Tending Brigid's flame


« Reply #643 on: July 25, 2013, 05:38:12 PM »

How do you give marijuana to a horse?

Mixed with sugar?
Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #644 on: July 25, 2013, 05:39:33 PM »

If everyone knows it's sinful, then why are so many people trying to show differently? Huh

For the same reasons they say homosexuality is ok, or adultery, or fornication, or drunkenness, or anything else they know is wrong.  So they will have no guilt.

Merely saying it's wrong doesn't make it wrong.

True.  Being wrong makes it wrong.

You were asked for proof of your claim that smoking pot even once is a sin, and all you can offer is "because I say so". How disappointing. Roll Eyes

If that is how you see it, good for you for ignoring what I said.
I've not ignored what you said. What you said doesn't prove anything.
First hand accounts and witnesses on multiple levels from various areas from various times who never met one another saying they same stuff doesn't count?  Nice.  Would you accept God standing before you and telling you or would you still demand your specific and ultra narrow requirements?  See, your beef appears to be the same as others, I never became a drooling pothead.  I also never had an abortion, and never could (Im a guy), but its still wrong and i can still say as much.  So let me ask you, where are the peer reviewed studies on the damage caused by khat?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 05:45:09 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #645 on: July 25, 2013, 05:40:13 PM »

The difference is, as smoking pot has no 'moderate level' that does not include intoxication

Lies.
If its a lie (it isn't), what's the purpose of MJ?

What's the purpose of alcohol?

And how do you know that you can't be a little bit high from MJ?

MJ, just like I wrote.  Please answer the question.  I'm fairly tired of diversionary tactics.  Sadly, seems that is all people have left to offer these days in way of dialogue.

The purpose of MJ is to have a good time.

The purpose of MJ is to get high.
And this is where you're wrong. You would be more correct to say that some people use MJ to get high.
No, what I said was accurate.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #646 on: July 25, 2013, 05:42:54 PM »

Sin is useless in this category?  Wow...

Now I see how people convince themselves their wrong actions are ok.  Sin is useless.
Logged
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,635



« Reply #647 on: July 25, 2013, 05:45:07 PM »

Sin is useless in this category?  Wow...

Now I see how people convince themselves their wrong actions are ok.  Sin is useless.
An I don't even smoke pot. imagine if I did.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #648 on: July 25, 2013, 05:45:46 PM »

Sin is useless in this category?  Wow...

Now I see how people convince themselves their wrong actions are ok.  Sin is useless.
An I don't even smoke pot. imagine if I did.
So
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #649 on: July 25, 2013, 06:36:40 PM »

Allow me, again, to address some of the bogus statements placed on this thread in regard to the consumption of MJ.

“Some people smoke pot to get high, not all.”

I have literally talked to hundreds (and I mean hundreds-several) people regarding the use of drugs and why.  Unlike your local PD folks who get a short few line statements from people and they are done, in my line of work we regularly can take that 8 sentence statement and turn it into 9 or more pages, single spaced and typed.  We get a lot more detail.  Yeah, we're pretty good at what we do.  Not once, in any of those discussions (or with people outside of work on the matter) have I ever met someone who said they didn’t consume MJ for any other purpose than to feel its effects, to get high, etc.  No one has ever said, “I smoked a joint to help me on a run.” Or anything like that and if they did, it later came out to be a lie.  I have even asked people, recently because of this thread, who have smoke MJ in the past, if they ever had any friends who consumed MJ for any other reason.  Guess what, not one said yes.  I did have one lady one time tell me she “self-medicated” with MJ, but as I stated, it later came out to be slightly different.  Sure, she self-medicated, but it was to get high.  Because doctors can now, recently, say they can administer medicinal MJ (what a crock) in no way alters this fact.  Aunt Betty has a bad back, she smokes pot from a prescription, and does she not get high?  Yes.  Is not the purpose of smoking pot to feel the high?  Yes. Did Aunt Betty smoke pot before and now thinks, “Oh, I don’t have to pay for it anymore because my insurance will and its good stuff?”  Most likely.  Even if this were not true, one out of 10 million people does not justify its use.  I can elaborate a great deal more, but anyone not purposely ignoring reality won’t need much more, if any.

“Not everyone feels the effects of pot.”  Or  “I smoked it once and I didn’t feel a thing.”

In fact, I just recently asked someone this and their reply was no different than what I have been told countless times.  “It was bad weed.”  In other words, it was either stems and seeds or it was dried out and lost its oils.  Similar to coffee and cigars, without its oils, the point is lost in their consumption.  You can still consume them, but at a dramatically decrease result.  But, as I said, I suppose there are a handful of people in the world it would not cause to feel differently.  Again, one in 10 million doesn’t justify its use.

“If you haven’t used it, you can’t say anything about it because you don’t know what you are talking about.”

As I stated, I have never had an abortion.  I have never murdered anyone.  I have never robbed a bank.  I have never lied on the stand in a court room.  I have never sexually assaulted someone.  I have never done many things.  Does this in anyway change the fact I have put forth a well informed and accurate statement concerning these things?  No.  In fact, most people who know the wrongs in life probably have not done those things.  To make this claim (although in certain circumstances it would work, but not in most such as this one) is completely senseless.  I have known many people who couldn’t read, much less read the Bible, but were good Christian people with lots of knowledge and wisdom.  This claim is invalid and the ones who use this as a defense are inept in their defense.

“Sin is useless regarding this topic.”

Sin is never irrelevant, ever.  It is always a separation from God.  It is always a temptation.  It is always there.  To ignore it or its possibilities is to invite disaster.  It works if you want to attempt to cleanse a guilty conscience, but only on the surface.  Especially considering the majority of people here have admitted to consuming MJ while it was illegal in their states.  This is a violation of law, which is not contradictory to any of Gods laws; therefore, it was a sinful act.  Now, you pathetically attempt to justify those sinful acts by saying it is now legal in SOME places and it was bad law to begin with (as if that has any relevance to its legality).

“Where are the peer reviewed studies showing how bad MJ is?”

Where are the peer reviewed studies revealing the goodness and miraculous benefits of MJ consumption?   You know, last I checked, you didn’t need 10 reviewed studies all in agreement to tell you smoking Meth is wrong, hitting the crack pipe is wrong, or blowing up a bridge with people on it is wrong.  Common sense (not so common any more) goes a long, long way, and anyone with half the mind of a new born goat knows MJ is wrong, sinful, illegal in most places, has no REAL medical benefit (which is why it didn’t get rescheduled this past year), and is for the purpose of getting high, or as someone else put it, to “have fun”.

“MJ is the same as smoking or drinking alcohol.”

How many times must a person address this before someone actually pays attention?  Seriously, this has been discussed multiple times.  Again, when asking someone who smokes pot, to get high, and asking them how long it took to feel its effects and what they did to get those effects and multiple people have responded, “I took one puff, passed it to my buddy and by the time it made its way back to me I felt its effects.”  This isn’t one or two people saying this, its most of them, even the ones I just asked outside of work.  Now, how many people say, “I took one sip of a Budweiser and in a minute or two I could feel myself getting drunk.”  None.  I also stated if prohibiting alcoholic beverages would ensure the condemnation of MJ use, I would gladly support that movement.  Some think its clever to bring smoking into the debate.  I say it’s a good idea because smoking pot is at least as bad as smoking cigarettes.  How can a person support MJ while saying smoking in general is wrong?  That is called selective cherry picking, or hypocrisy.  Either way, its dishonest at best.

Spin, twist, violently protest if you want, but when all the hoopla is done, in the end, it is still sinful to consume MJ.

All that is left now is for someone to pick out a snippet of this post and comment in a way which has nothing to do with what I stated.  For instance :

Quote
I took one puff, passed it to my buddy

What if you don't have a buddy?

Keep up the great deception.  Teens with no real life experience everywhere believe you.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:43:39 PM by Kerdy » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #650 on: July 25, 2013, 06:48:25 PM »

If everyone knows it's sinful, then why are so many people trying to show differently? Huh

For the same reasons they say homosexuality is ok, or adultery, or fornication, or drunkenness, or anything else they know is wrong.  So they will have no guilt.

Merely saying it's wrong doesn't make it wrong.

True.  Being wrong makes it wrong.

You were asked for proof of your claim that smoking pot even once is a sin, and all you can offer is "because I say so". How disappointing. Roll Eyes

If that is how you see it, good for you for ignoring what I said.
I've not ignored what you said. What you said doesn't prove anything.
First hand accounts and witnesses on multiple levels from various areas from various times who never met one another saying they same stuff doesn't count?  Nice.
Some people had bad experiences of marijuana. I don't deny that. I never denied that smoking marijuana with the intent of getting high is a sin, since I believe the same thing about drinking alcohol with the intent of getting drunk. Consuming anything with the intent of getting intoxicated is a sin and a very dangerous activity. That said, that's not the point of my questions to you. I think you would accept that alcohol in and of itself is not sinful and can be consumed in a God-honoring manner if not consumed to the point of drunkenness. Why will you not extend the same reasoning to marijuana?

Would you accept God standing before you and telling you or would you still demand your specific and ultra narrow requirements?
Would you?

See, your beef appears to be the same as others, I never became a drooling pothead.  I also never had an abortion, and never could (Im a guy), but its still wrong and i can still say as much.  So let me ask you, where are the peer reviewed studies on the damage caused by khat?
You're still avoiding my question and focusing instead on those points where we actually agree. My question to you--the question you keep avoiding with your curt answers--is this: Assuming that it's legal to do so, is smoking marijuana even once, and without the goal of getting high, a sin? If so, why?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 07:23:34 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #651 on: July 25, 2013, 06:51:44 PM »

The difference is, as smoking pot has no 'moderate level' that does not include intoxication

Lies.
If its a lie (it isn't), what's the purpose of MJ?

What's the purpose of alcohol?

And how do you know that you can't be a little bit high from MJ?

MJ, just like I wrote.  Please answer the question.  I'm fairly tired of diversionary tactics.  Sadly, seems that is all people have left to offer these days in way of dialogue.

The purpose of MJ is to have a good time.

The purpose of MJ is to get high.
And this is where you're wrong. You would be more correct to say that some people use MJ to get high.
No, what I said was accurate.
Then you would have to say that God created marijuana for the purpose of making us high. That's ridiculous! God didn't create marijuana to be an opportunity for us to sin. God didn't create marijuana as something evil. To say that He did is to attribute evil to God Himself, which is a heretical thing to do. It's our misuse of marijuana that's evil.
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #652 on: July 25, 2013, 06:55:21 PM »

The difference is, as smoking pot has no 'moderate level' that does not include intoxication

Lies.
If its a lie (it isn't), what's the purpose of MJ?

What's the purpose of alcohol?

And how do you know that you can't be a little bit high from MJ?

MJ, just like I wrote.  Please answer the question.  I'm fairly tired of diversionary tactics.  Sadly, seems that is all people have left to offer these days in way of dialogue.

The purpose of MJ is to have a good time.

The purpose of MJ is to get high.
And this is where you're wrong. You would be more correct to say that some people use MJ to get high.
No, what I said was accurate.
Then you would have to say that God created marijuana for the purpose of making us high. That's ridiculous! God didn't create marijuana to be an opportunity for us to sin. God didn't create marijuana as something evil. To say that He did is to attribute evil to God Himself, which is a heretical thing to do. It's our misuse of marijuana that's evil.

God made hemp so that we could make rope. Instead, some people smoke it and get high.  Roll Eyes
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #653 on: July 25, 2013, 07:21:46 PM »

Allow me, again, to address some of the bogus statements placed on this thread in regard to the consumption of MJ.

“Some people smoke pot to get high, not all.”

I have literally talked to hundreds (and I mean hundreds-several) people regarding the use of drugs and why.  Unlike your local PD folks who get a short few line statements from people and they are done, in my line of work we regularly can take that 8 sentence statement and turn it into 9 or more pages, single spaced and typed.  We get a lot more detail.  Yeah, we're pretty good at what we do.  Not once, in any of those discussions (or with people outside of work on the matter) have I ever met someone who said they didn’t consume MJ for any other purpose than to feel its effects, to get high, etc.  No one has ever said, “I smoked a joint to help me on a run.” Or anything like that and if they did, it later came out to be a lie.  I have even asked people, recently because of this thread, who have smoke MJ in the past, if they ever had any friends who consumed MJ for any other reason.  Guess what, not one said yes.  I did have one lady one time tell me she “self-medicated” with MJ, but as I stated, it later came out to be slightly different.  Sure, she self-medicated, but it was to get high.  Because doctors can now, recently, say they can administer medicinal MJ (what a crock) in no way alters this fact.  Aunt Betty has a bad back, she smokes pot from a prescription, and does she not get high?  Yes.  Is not the purpose of smoking pot to feel the high?  Yes. Did Aunt Betty smoke pot before and now thinks, “Oh, I don’t have to pay for it anymore because my insurance will and its good stuff?”  Most likely.  Even if this were not true, one out of 10 million people does not justify its use.  I can elaborate a great deal more, but anyone not purposely ignoring reality won’t need much more, if any.
Logical fallacy: You're making a sweeping generalization from your personal experience, which by definition is quite limited.

“Not everyone feels the effects of pot.”  Or  “I smoked it once and I didn’t feel a thing.”

In fact, I just recently asked someone this and their reply was no different than what I have been told countless times.  “It was bad weed.”  In other words, it was either stems and seeds or it was dried out and lost its oils.  Similar to coffee and cigars, without its oils, the point is lost in their consumption.  You can still consume them, but at a dramatically decrease result.  But, as I said, I suppose there are a handful of people in the world it would not cause to feel differently.  Again, one in 10 million doesn’t justify its use.
Another hasty generalization fallacy, combined with a statement of nothing more than personal opinion

“If you haven’t used it, you can’t say anything about it because you don’t know what you are talking about.”

As I stated, I have never had an abortion.  I have never murdered anyone.  I have never robbed a bank.  I have never lied on the stand in a court room.  I have never sexually assaulted someone.  I have never done many things.  Does this in anyway change the fact I have put forth a well informed and accurate statement concerning these things?  No.  In fact, most people who know the wrongs in life probably have not done those things.  To make this claim (although in certain circumstances it would work, but not in most such as this one) is completely senseless.  I have known many people who couldn’t read, much less read the Bible, but were good Christian people with lots of knowledge and wisdom.  This claim is invalid and the ones who use this as a defense are inept in their defense.
I'm not arguing with this, since I largely agree with it.

“Sin is useless regarding this topic.”

Sin is never irrelevant, ever.  It is always a separation from God.  It is always a temptation.  It is always there.  To ignore it or its possibilities is to invite disaster.  It works if you want to attempt to cleanse a guilty conscience, but only on the surface.  Especially considering the majority of people here have admitted to consuming MJ while it was illegal in their states.  This is a violation of law, which is not contradictory to any of Gods laws; therefore, it was a sinful act.  Now, you pathetically attempt to justify those sinful acts by saying it is now legal in SOME places and it was bad law to begin with (as if that has any relevance to its legality).
No argument here. The most important reason I don't smoke marijuana is because it's still illegal in my state, and I do believe that I have a Christian duty to obey every civil law that does not contradict the commandments of God.

“Where are the peer reviewed studies showing how bad MJ is?”

Where are the peer reviewed studies revealing the goodness and miraculous benefits of MJ consumption?   You know, last I checked, you didn’t need 10 reviewed studies all in agreement to tell you smoking Meth is wrong, hitting the crack pipe is wrong, or blowing up a bridge with people on it is wrong.
That logic works only if the smoking of marijuana really is as destructive as all these other activities you list. You have asserted that marijuana is bad in and of itself, apart from its misuse, so the burden of proof is on you to support your thesis. It's not our burden to prove you wrong.

Common sense (not so common any more) goes a long, long way,
Unfortunately, common sense tends to mean to each individual what each individual defines it to mean. I hardly find it proof of anything anymore.

and anyone with half the mind of a new born goat knows MJ is wrong, sinful, illegal in most places, has no REAL medical benefit (which is why it didn’t get rescheduled this past year), and is for the purpose of getting high, or as someone else put it, to “have fun”.
Again, you're asserting that marijuana is wrong in and of itself without giving any supporting evidence. "Because I say so," is not proof. Rather, it's just a bare assertion fallacy. BTW, anyone with even all the mind of a newborn goat will recognize that there's more to this issue than you're portraying.

“MJ is the same as smoking or drinking alcohol.”

How many times must a person address this before someone actually pays attention?  Seriously, this has been discussed multiple times.  Again, when asking someone who smokes pot, to get high, and asking them how long it took to feel its effects and what they did to get those effects and multiple people have responded, “I took one puff, passed it to my buddy and by the time it made its way back to me I felt its effects.”  This isn’t one or two people saying this, its most of them, even the ones I just asked outside of work.  Now, how many people say, “I took one sip of a Budweiser and in a minute or two I could feel myself getting drunk.”  None.  I also stated if prohibiting alcoholic beverages would ensure the condemnation of MJ use, I would gladly support that movement.  Some think its clever to bring smoking into the debate.  I say it’s a good idea because smoking pot is at least as bad as smoking cigarettes.  How can a person support MJ while saying smoking in general is wrong?  That is called selective cherry picking, or hypocrisy.  Either way, its dishonest at best.
Again with the bare assertion and hasty generalization fallacies. For one, you're talking specifically about those who smoke marijuana with the intent of getting high. If their intent is to get high, then they're going to get high. That's pretty obvious. But what about those who smoke marijuana but with no intent to get high and go to great lengths to make sure they don't smoke enough to get high? I notice you say nothing about them. Quite conveniently so, since you think such a mentality impossible. Why is such a mentality impossible, especially when so many of us will approach alcohol consumption with that same moderation mentality?

Spin, twist, violently protest if you want, but when all the hoopla is done, in the end, it is still sinful to consume MJ.
Because you say so? Who are you?

All that is left now is for someone to pick out a snippet of this post and comment in a way which has nothing to do with what I stated.  For instance :

Quote
I took one puff, passed it to my buddy

What if you don't have a buddy?

Keep up the great deception.  Teens with no real life experience everywhere believe you.

Are you even capable of getting over your emotionalism long enough to see things rationally? The problem some here have with you is not that we disagree with you--for the most part, I actually agree with much of your point of view. The problem some here have with you is that, when you see your point of view questioned, you get hostile and defensive and start lashing out as if the name of God has been blasphemed by our questions. Speaking for myself, I will say that I really just want to know why you believe as you do. I ask pointed questions, yes, but I do so with the intent of encouraging you to give greater articulation to and oustide support of your points. There's no need for you to feel such a compulsion to fight back that you won't do any research to support your reasoning.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #654 on: July 25, 2013, 07:43:38 PM »

Well, I'm not going to debate here any longer.  Rules seem not to to apply to all persons at all times for engagement of discussion, so it's a lost cause and my frustration with people being intentionally ignorant of fact will eventually lead me to emotional responses; therefore, I make apologies for any offenses I may have caused anyone and will ask Peter one last question, though I am certain on his response, but have no problem being surprised if I am wrong.

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,774


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #655 on: July 25, 2013, 08:06:12 PM »

Hi Kerdy,

Some thoughts regarding your latest, substantial post.  They're not comprehensive because I'm not invested in the outcome of this conversation one way or another, and I have no doubt that you'll disregard them if you feel like it.  Smiley

Allow me, again, to address some of the bogus statements placed on this thread in regard to the consumption of MJ.

“Some people smoke pot to get high, not all.”

I have literally talked to hundreds (and I mean hundreds-several) people regarding the use of drugs and why.  Unlike your local PD folks who get a short few line statements from people and they are done, in my line of work we regularly can take that 8 sentence statement and turn it into 9 or more pages, single spaced and typed.  We get a lot more detail.  Yeah, we're pretty good at what we do.  Not once, in any of those discussions (or with people outside of work on the matter) have I ever met someone who said they didn’t consume MJ for any other purpose than to feel its effects, to get high, etc.  No one has ever said, “I smoked a joint to help me on a run.” Or anything like that and if they did, it later came out to be a lie.  I have even asked people, recently because of this thread, who have smoke MJ in the past, if they ever had any friends who consumed MJ for any other reason.  Guess what, not one said yes.  I did have one lady one time tell me she “self-medicated” with MJ, but as I stated, it later came out to be slightly different.  Sure, she self-medicated, but it was to get high.  

We ought to value your opinion in this matter because it is based on research conducted over the course of years in your professional capacity (a law or law enforcement related field, I presume), and its results are unanimous and thoroughly consistent, right?  Very well.  But then...  

Quote
Because doctors can now, recently, say they can administer medicinal MJ (what a crock) in no way alters this fact.  Aunt Betty has a bad back, she smokes pot from a prescription, and does she not get high?  Yes.  Is not the purpose of smoking pot to feel the high?  Yes. Did Aunt Betty smoke pot before and now thinks, “Oh, I don’t have to pay for it anymore because my insurance will and its good stuff?”  Most likely.  Even if this were not true, one out of 10 million people does not justify its use.  I can elaborate a great deal more, but anyone not purposely ignoring reality won’t need much more, if any.

Are or were you also a physician, that you can presume to pass judgement on the conclusions or methods of that field?  Because if you're not, yours is just one "set" of professional findings against another.  And if you can summarily dismiss the "findings" of one professional field (in which you are not qualified) in favour of your own "findings", why does anyone have to accept yours as being as "self-evident" as you say?  

I've never used anything but prescription drugs, and can count the number of times I've gotten drunk in my life on one hand, and have no inclinations to this sort of activity, so I'm not particularly invested in the acceptance or rejection of marijuana use one way or another.  I just don't believe that anyone in this thread is really interested in getting to an answer.  The "pro" partisans posit reason X for their position, and the "anti" faction spends a lot of time decrying it as godlessness; the "anti" partisans posit reason Y for their conviction, and the "pros" find holes to poke in the argument.  Everyone's dancing around the issue, but no one's really engaging it with any serious arguments, everyone's simply content to promote their view and to dismiss the others'.  And that's fine, I guess, but then maybe continuing the conversation in this vein is the real sin.    

Quote
“MJ is the same as smoking or drinking alcohol.”

How many times must a person address this before someone actually pays attention?  Seriously, this has been discussed multiple times.  Again, when asking someone who smokes pot, to get high, and asking them how long it took to feel its effects and what they did to get those effects and multiple people have responded, “I took one puff, passed it to my buddy and by the time it made its way back to me I felt its effects.”  This isn’t one or two people saying this, its most of them, even the ones I just asked outside of work.

More professional research.  Good.  

Quote
Now, how many people say, “I took one sip of a Budweiser and in a minute or two I could feel myself getting drunk.”  None.

My mother, for one.  And she's not the only one.  I know a number of people who avoid even beer because a sip is enough to make them feel like they're getting drunk.  Just because you haven't encountered them doesn't mean they don't exist.  So is this enough to equate MJ with alcohol?  

Or is the argument going to be that these people are feeling "woozy" or "light headed" but cannot possibly be getting drunk because it requires more alcohol in your system to get drunk?  If so, why can't that argument be used for MJ?  

This is based on the stigma of MJ use rather than anything substantive about MJ.  I think one can make an argument that smoking MJ is or can be sinful, but this isn't the way to do it, even if you insist a hundred times that it is.        

Quote
I also stated if prohibiting alcoholic beverages would ensure the condemnation of MJ use, I would gladly support that movement.  

But prohibiting alcoholic beverages in order to ensure the condemnation of MJ does not say anything about their "morality".  All it does is stigmatise one thing in order to ensure maintaining the stigma on another.    

Morality is about more than law.  Is speeding a sin?  Well, if the limit is 65mph and I go 80mph, I'm in violation of the law.  Is that enough to be sinful?  No, and not just because there can be and are bad laws, laws get overturned, new ones are enacted, etc.  Context is another factor: 80mph on an isolated stretch of highway in the middle of flyover country is not the same as 80mph on the BQE in NY.  If speeding is a sin, it's not merely because there's a law: the law itself is founded on the presumption that speeding increases the potential for harm to come to other people or to myself due to a reckless behaviour.  That's the rub.  Tons of people get off of speeding infractions with "warnings", which is unconscionable if speeding is always and everywhere immoral.  During Prohibition, alcohol was illegal.  Then the law was overturned and it was OK.  But none of that changed a dot or tittle of Sirach 31.  Abortion is legal, but it is still immorality of the worst sort.  "Law qua law" isn't useful in this regard because it can only go so far.  

Quote
Some think its clever to bring smoking into the debate.  I say it’s a good idea because smoking pot is at least as bad as smoking cigarettes.  How can a person support MJ while saying smoking in general is wrong?  That is called selective cherry picking, or hypocrisy.  Either way, its dishonest at best.

Leaving aside the fact that there are more ways to use MJ than just smoking it, sure, it's dishonest to condemn smoking in general and allow smoking MJ in particular.  But is that even the point of bringing up smoking?  Or is it that smoking tobacco products is also harmful to health, is done for its effects on the body, etc., but doesn't have the stigma of tobacco use due to a legal technicality?    

When I was in high school, my father died of lung cancer within a year of diagnosis.  The best guess any of his oncologists could hazard as to how a non-smoker, non-drinker, who got regular exercise, ate healthy, and went years between having the common cold could contract that form of cancer was that when he was in college, he was exposed to secondhand smoke because of some friends he hung out with but with whom he did not share an apartment.  In other words, limited exposure about a quarter century before he got sick.  I don't know whether MJ users get similarly sick from the stuff, but tobacco users definitely do, and so do their secondhand victims, who are such because there's no stigma against tobacco use like there is against MJ (though that seems to be changing through the enacting of laws restricting its public use, much to the dismay of smokers who feel their rights are being attacked).  

And yet, there are people who smoke or chew tobacco, who regularly consume alcohol, etc., and pontificate against MJ.  Perhaps some have even commented in this thread.  Perhaps you're one of them, I don't know.  But they can't simply point to a law or a stigma against MJ and assert that it's this horrible godless evil, when alcohol and tobacco use have done significant and arguably more "damage", and yet are allowed under the law.  The argument against MJ has to be better.  

Personally, I regard any and all tobacco use as sinful: anything that causes people to literally burn so much money that could be better spent and inflicts disease, death, misfortunes and sufferings on so many, users and non-users alike, is abominable IMO.  If I made my own church, that would be one of its moral standards.  But as we are concerned about Christ's Church, which doesn't seem to have explicitly and categorically condemned all tobacco or alcohol use, there has to be something more to the question of their sinfulness.  Similarly, I think there has to be something more to the sinfulness of MJ than secular laws or cultural taboos in order for the Church to condemn it.  Again, I think the case can be made that MJ use is or can be sinful, but so far no one has made that case.  It's just one group of people asserting one opinion versus the others asserting theirs.  
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #656 on: July 25, 2013, 09:45:29 PM »

Well, I'm not going to debate here any longer.  Rules seem not to to apply to all persons at all times for engagement of discussion, so it's a lost cause and my frustration with people being intentionally ignorant of fact will eventually lead me to emotional responses;
So you take no responsibility for your emotional responses? It's always someone else who makes you sin? When God confronted Adam after Adam ate the forbidden fruit, did Adam not blame Eve for giving him the fruit? Attempting to shift the blame to his wife did nothing to absolve him of his own guilt for his sin, and I suspect that at the judgment seat of Christ your attempts to blame others for your emotional responses are not going to absolve of you of your guilt. You choose to respond as you do, and you will be held to account for your choices. Therefore, you would do well to stop blaming us for "making" you respond emotionally. Your response is your responsibility.

therefore, I make apologies for any offenses I may have caused anyone and will ask Peter one last question, though I am certain on his response, but have no problem being surprised if I am wrong.

What is a godly purpose for getting high?
How does that relate to my question to you? Your attempt to answer my question with a question of your own is nothing more than a dodge that I will not accept. Before I answer any of your questions, I first need you to answer mine. Assuming that the use of marijuana is legal, why do you believe that smoking it even once and without the desire to get high is a sin?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.
Insofar as you refuse to engage those questions others have asked of your point of view, you have NOT provided a clear perspective of anything. All you've ever done on this thread is repeat your assertion that the smoking of marijuana is a sin because you say it is.

You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.
So please take responsibility for your actions without blaming anyone else for making you sin.

I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.
Just remember that you aren't God and that godliness isn't necessarily what you say it is.
Logged
zaphod
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 50


« Reply #657 on: July 28, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »

I abused alcohol for a period of my life. I suppose I'm lucky in that I don't have an addictive personality, so I didn't struggle overly to give it up. And it didn't cause me to get violent and go and beat up my family or anything. And I didn't do it quite long enough to do too much permanent damage to my body (although I had a scary case of gout in my foot, which gave me a wake up call). But I have no doubt that if I kept up what I was doing, it would have eventually destroyed my body.

It's the case the marijuana, not everyone will get quick onset of schizophrenia (but some will!). Not everyone will get heavily addicted (but some will).  But I'm sure that even those less susceptible to its worst effects will indeed rot their brain with long term use, just like alcohol would rot my body if I kept it up, despite my not being susceptible to its most obvious and worst immediate effects.

So... is taking marijuana once "a sin"? Well... is it sensible to take this drug, when you don't know in advance how its going to affect you? What is the upside to that? I tried it about 3 or 4 times. I wasn't able to get any affect on most of those times. The one time I managed through persistence to feel something, I felt a sudden onset of fear and anxiety. One of the most unpleasant feelings I can ever recall. Do you think its a good thing to take this unnecessary drug, that _could_ cause that effect?

If its not a sin... would you recommend your 16 year old daughter get into it?

As for my wife, she got a lot of pot smoking friends. I don't know enough about the rest of them to say whether any of the rest of them were driven crazy like she was. But I do know one thing... the whole lot of them were "losers". Unemployed, no motivation, not drive to achieve anything. Could it have anything to do with them being pot heads? Do ya think?

Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #658 on: July 28, 2013, 12:25:57 PM »

If its not a sin... would you recommend your 16 year old daughter get into it?

Actively encouraging her to try? No. Forbidding her to try? Not.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #659 on: July 28, 2013, 12:55:52 PM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents. He was quite sober. And we are all called to be sober and watchful for the devil prowls the world like a roaring lion (I Peter). We are to resist the evil one through prayers, watchfulness, and sobriety.

Just because a deed is legal, it does not make it righteous. Look at abortion. It is legal, but it is still a deadly sin of murder. Marijuana smoking may be legal, but it deadens the soul through insobriety, so yes, it is a sin.

Regarding medical marijuana, let the pharmaceutical companies develop an injectable drug or pill made from an extract of the marijuana plant. Why should nurses, doctors, visitors, and other patients be exposed to marijuana smoke?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 01:03:10 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #660 on: July 28, 2013, 01:06:39 PM »



The most active ingredients of MJ are found in the flowering parts.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 01:07:06 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,635



« Reply #661 on: July 28, 2013, 01:22:44 PM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.
I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents. He was quite sober. And we are all called to be sober and watchful for the devil prowls the world like a roaring lion (I Peter). We are to resist the evil one through prayers, watchfulness, and sobriety.

Just because a deed is legal, it does not make it righteous. Look at abortion. It is legal, but it is still a deadly sin of murder. Marijuana smoking may be legal, but it deadens the soul through insobriety, so yes, it is a sin.

Regarding medical marijuana, let the pharmaceutical companies develop an injectable drug or pill made from an extract of the marijuana plant. Why should nurses, doctors, visitors, and other patients be exposed to marijuana smoke?
We might assume the Lord also smoke when he visited the lost tribes of Israel, in the new world.

quoting corrected - MK
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 03:38:25 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,774


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #662 on: July 28, 2013, 01:38:41 PM »

As for my wife, she got a lot of pot smoking friends. I don't know enough about the rest of them to say whether any of the rest of them were driven crazy like she was. But I do know one thing... the whole lot of them were "losers". Unemployed, no motivation, not drive to achieve anything. Could it have anything to do with them being pot heads? Do ya think?

It could be a cause, but it could also be a result.  I've known a number of people who fit the bolded description above but who never used any illegal substances and drank ridiculously infrequently (~5-6 bottles of beer in 12 months).  They went to church regularly and lived a basically moral Christian life.  But they ran into hard times, and had a rough time before getting out.  Are they also losers?  I suppose those who fancy themselves "winners" would think so, but often enough it's the pain that comes from being judged and dismissed by others that brings such people to sink even lower rather than spurring them on to progress.  To the extent that those who judge others contribute to this, they are fratricidal murderers.      

You don't have to condone and encourage sin to know that Matthew 7.1-2 means exactly what it says.  I'm sorry for what you've had to suffer in your family life, I really am.  But these things apply to all of us.  As long as we keep judging others, we're part of the problem and not the solution.        
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #663 on: July 28, 2013, 03:09:42 PM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.
I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents. He was quite sober. And we are all called to be sober and watchful for the devil prowls the world like a roaring lion (I Peter). We are to resist the evil one through prayers, watchfulness, and sobriety.

Just because a deed is legal, it does not make it righteous. Look at abortion. It is legal, but it is still a deadly sin of murder. Marijuana smoking may be legal, but it deadens the soul through insobriety, so yes, it is a sin.

Regarding medical marijuana, let the pharmaceutical companies develop an injectable drug or pill made from an extract of the marijuana plant. Why should nurses, doctors, visitors, and other patients be exposed to marijuana smoke?
We might assume the Lord also smoke when he visited the lost tribes of Israel, in the new world.

Blasphemy.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jerkodox
Posts: 6,855



« Reply #664 on: July 28, 2013, 03:22:12 PM »

^He who invented Mormonism must have smoked all kinds of things.
Logged

Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #665 on: July 28, 2013, 04:07:43 PM »

Honestly I wouldn't even smoke marijuana to get high. I just like the mechanical motion of smoking. If cigs were healthy, I'd be smoking a carton a day.

I haven't seen any studies that show smoking MJ is harmful.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #666 on: July 28, 2013, 05:46:39 PM »

^He who invented Mormonism must have smoked all kinds of things.

 Roll Eyes Likewise, the person who invented Jehovah's Witnesses. Didn't Father Morris in his brochure published by Conciliar Press (now Ancient Faith Publishing) say that both cult founders were freemasons?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 05:46:53 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #667 on: July 28, 2013, 05:54:53 PM »

^He who invented Mormonism must have smoked all kinds of things.
You do realize he snorted coke out of a hat right?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #668 on: July 29, 2013, 12:31:30 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:31:53 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #669 on: July 29, 2013, 12:40:15 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.

That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Marriage (Holy Crowning) is a Holy Mystery after which wine is served.
Christ partook of wine at the Wedding Feast in Cana.
In addition, Bread and Wine become the Sacred Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ during Divine Liturgy.

Marijuana or hallucinogenic agents are not part of our Holy Mysteries.
But I bet that you will mention incense.  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:42:57 AM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #670 on: July 29, 2013, 12:51:18 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.

That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Actually, it's a perfect analogy. You mention the fact that Jesus did not do something as evidence that we shouldn't, either. Well, Jesus never married, but you explained later exactly why we should not see marriage as a sin. I'm sure there are many other things Jesus did not do, but that does not prove that any of those things is a sin--to assert otherwise is essentially an argument from silence, which is very rarely ever convincing. The only thing we can say with any confidence is that anything Jesus DID do is NOT a sin.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:54:31 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #671 on: July 29, 2013, 12:53:43 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.

That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Actually, it's a perfect analogy. You mention the fact that Jesus did not do something as evidence that we shouldn't, either. Well, Jesus never married, but you explained later exactly why we should not see marriage as a sin. I'm sure there are many other things Jesus did not do, but that argument from silence does not prove that any of those things is a sin. The only thing we can say with any confidence is that anything Jesus DID do is NOT a sin.

FAIL

You took my quote out of context as you deleted the rest of my post.

Quote
That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Marriage (Holy Crowning) is a Holy Mystery after which wine is served.
Christ partook of wine at the Wedding Feast in Cana.
In addition, Bread and Wine become the Sacred Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ during Divine Liturgy.

Marijuana or hallucinogenic agents are not part of our Holy Mysteries.
But I bet that you will mention incense.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:54:26 AM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #672 on: July 29, 2013, 12:55:38 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.

That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Actually, it's a perfect analogy. You mention the fact that Jesus did not do something as evidence that we shouldn't, either. Well, Jesus never married, but you explained later exactly why we should not see marriage as a sin. I'm sure there are many other things Jesus did not do, but that argument from silence does not prove that any of those things is a sin. The only thing we can say with any confidence is that anything Jesus DID do is NOT a sin.

FAIL

You took my quote out of context as you deleted the rest of my post.
No, Maria, I addressed only that part of your post that directly addressed my analogy. The rest of your post was irrelevant.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 12:57:35 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,190


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #673 on: July 29, 2013, 12:59:25 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.

That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Actually, it's a perfect analogy. You mention the fact that Jesus did not do something as evidence that we shouldn't, either. Well, Jesus never married, but you explained later exactly why we should not see marriage as a sin. I'm sure there are many other things Jesus did not do, but that argument from silence does not prove that any of those things is a sin. The only thing we can say with any confidence is that anything Jesus DID do is NOT a sin.

FAIL

You took my quote out of context as you deleted the rest of my post.
No, Maria, I addressed only that part of your post that directly addressed my analogy. The rest of your post was irrelevant.

Your entire premise is invalid, and you think my post was irrelevant?
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #674 on: July 29, 2013, 01:12:56 AM »

...

What is a godly purpose for getting high?

With that, each person must make their own choices.  I have provided a clear perspective from the overwhelming negative view of MJ.  You all are the ones who must decide.  You are the ones responsible to God for your actions as I am responsible for mine.  I pray you make godly decisions and draw closer to God in your journey.

Please pray for me, a sinner.

I agree with you Kerdy.

Christ our Lord partook of wine, but neither did He smoke, nor partake of any hallucinogenic agents.
Neither did Jesus marry, but that doesn't make marriage a sin.

That is not a good analogy, PtA.
Actually, it's a perfect analogy. You mention the fact that Jesus did not do something as evidence that we shouldn't, either. Well, Jesus never married, but you explained later exactly why we should not see marriage as a sin. I'm sure there are many other things Jesus did not do, but that argument from silence does not prove that any of those things is a sin. The only thing we can say with any confidence is that anything Jesus DID do is NOT a sin.

FAIL

You took my quote out of context as you deleted the rest of my post.
No, Maria, I addressed only that part of your post that directly addressed my analogy. The rest of your post was irrelevant.

Your entire premise is invalid,
Actually, Maria, your premise is totally invalid. You argued from the fact that Jesus did not do something--more correctly, is not recorded in the Gospel as having done something--as evidence that what He did not do is a sin. That in itself is an argument from silence. Just because Jesus is not recorded as having done something--your premise, not mine--does not mean that what He is not recorded to have done is a sin. Nowhere in the Gospel is it ever said the Jesus rode a camel, but that doesn't make riding a camel a sin, does it?

and you think my post was irrelevant?
If you're going to cite what Jesus did not do as an argument supporting your thesis, then later adding arguments from the Holy Mysteries of the Church adds variables that are totally irrelevant to your initial argument.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 01:14:23 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Tags: sin Orthodox Christian Fellowship marijuana alcohol drugs bee in bonnet pot weed 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.198 seconds with 72 queries.