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Author Topic: Is smoking marijuana a sin?  (Read 37335 times) Average Rating: 0
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Cyrillic
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« Reply #405 on: March 20, 2013, 08:11:38 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.

But that's just the US. There's a huge world out there.
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« Reply #406 on: March 20, 2013, 10:57:54 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
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FormerReformer
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« Reply #407 on: March 20, 2013, 11:31:09 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.

I'm sorry, but "conspiracy"? Yes, it is true that many people want to be able to use marijuana recreationally, and they see legalization for medicinal purposes as being the first step toward changing American society's perceptions regarding the drug (due mainly to the racist and reactionary propaganda that followed the prohibition of the drug). This does not change the fact that marijuana does have at least one valid medicinal purpose that is worth any amount of recreational use that slips through the cracks: chemotherapy patients and others who have such violent reactions to their life saving medications that smoking marijuana is the only way that they can keep down any amount of food. DEA approved THC pills manufactured by Pfizer are not the answer- pills take to long to be broken down and absorbed by the body, and these patients end up regurgitating them long before any PROVEN anti-nausea can take effect.

People abuse all sorts of medicinal drugs recreationally. Thought processes such as yours are the reason that many doctors are afraid to prescribe the levels of pain medication their patients need rather than run afoul of the Drug Czar's crackdown on "pill mills". Oh dear Lord, we can't ever run the risk that someone might be abusing a drug- we must make it so that everyone suffers to protect one person from the ill effects of getting high! Won't someone please think of the chlidren!!!!

I would rather this "conspiracy" succeed and Americans be weened off their knee-jerk, ethnicist, temperance era fear of intoxication. Some people choose to get high. Some people go for a second (and third, and twelfth) glass of wine after dinner. Some people choose to over-eat or eat the wrong type of foods. Some people choose to do nothing after they get home after work but watch endless hours of reality TV. Some people use the internet for an endless stream of pornography. People make bad choices. Making those choices illegal- say by banning fast food, television sets, or the internet- is not the way to go about ensuring that people make the right choices, and only punishes those who use these things responsibly. And in the case of prohibitionist attitudes, it ensures that people who could have their suffering alleviated are made to suffer in order to ensure that one or two junkies have to go to illegal extremes in order to get their fix.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 11:33:09 AM by FormerReformer » Logged

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« Reply #408 on: March 21, 2013, 02:49:35 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.

But that's just the US. There's a huge world out there.
I don't worry about places I don't live for this sort of thing.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #409 on: March 21, 2013, 02:49:58 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #410 on: March 21, 2013, 03:07:52 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?
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Kerdy
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« Reply #411 on: March 21, 2013, 04:09:51 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.  Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
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« Reply #412 on: March 21, 2013, 09:58:21 AM »

I don't worry about places I don't live for this sort of thing.

So, according to you, smoking marijuana is sinful in some countries and isn't in others?
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #413 on: March 21, 2013, 11:07:15 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.
My eyes are open, Kerdy, open to the fact that you expect everything you say to be believed on your authority alone. If things are as obvious as you say, then maybe you can show us with proof from outside sources.

Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
I never asked you to stonewall, yet that's what I'm getting.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 11:07:43 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Kerdy
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« Reply #414 on: March 21, 2013, 09:28:41 PM »

I don't worry about places I don't live for this sort of thing.

So, according to you, smoking marijuana is sinful in some countries and isn't in others?
Um, not even close.  Are you even reading what I am posting?
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Kerdy
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« Reply #415 on: March 21, 2013, 09:36:40 PM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.
My eyes are open, Kerdy, open to the fact that you expect everything you say to be believed on your authority alone. If things are as obvious as you say, then maybe you can show us with proof from outside sources.

Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
I never asked you to stonewall, yet that's what I'm getting.
Squash tastes bad.  Lots of people agree.  Do you require proof of this as well or will the twisted looks on our faces suffice?  There are no peer reviewed studies, there is no documentation to research, just the fact people say they don't like squash.  Are they not telling the truth because you don't want to believe them?  

This whole "I'll say something, when someone disagrees I will demand tangible evidence for their claim and say they should, even if its obvious, but never contribute myself" game is a little silly.  You probably should no longer do it, but it's up to you.  Besides, you ask for political information on a none political thread, since you clearly desire to ignore what has been posted on this thread.  You know better than to ask for something I can't provide without violating posting rules.  

Believe what you want.  Most people do.  I prefer to believe what is true, but that is a personal choice I have made.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 09:44:39 PM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #416 on: March 21, 2013, 10:15:32 PM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.
My eyes are open, Kerdy, open to the fact that you expect everything you say to be believed on your authority alone. If things are as obvious as you say, then maybe you can show us with proof from outside sources.

Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
I never asked you to stonewall, yet that's what I'm getting.
Squash tastes bad.  Lots of people agree.  Do you require proof of this as well or will the twisted looks on our faces suffice?  There are no peer reviewed studies, there is no documentation to research, just the fact people say they don't like squash.  Are they not telling the truth because you don't want to believe them?  

This whole "I'll say something, when someone disagrees I will demand tangible evidence for their claim and say they should, even if its obvious, but never contribute myself" game is a little silly.  You probably should no longer do it, but it's up to you.  Besides, you ask for political information on a none political thread, since you clearly desire to ignore what has been posted on this thread.  You know better than to ask for something I can't provide without violating posting rules.  

Believe what you want.  Most people do.  I prefer to believe what is true, but that is a personal choice I have made.

Saying "Marijuana use is a sin" or "has no medicinal benefits" or "the only advocates for medicinal use want to use it for recreational purposes" and "squash tastes bad" are two completely different categories. The latter is a matter of preference- there are plenty of people who find that squash tastes quite delicious. Even for myself, who does not under any circumstances eat squash, find my objections toward that particular food not to be based on a bad taste but rather a texture that makes me gag and even regurgitate every time I try to swallow it, no matter how good-tasting it might be.

The difference lies between saying "squash tastes bad" and "eating squash is a sin" or "squash has no medical benefits" or " the only advocates for the nutritional value of squash are conspirators who actually enjoy the taste of squash". One needs no qualification beyond the statement the others do.
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"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

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« Reply #417 on: March 22, 2013, 12:58:40 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.
My eyes are open, Kerdy, open to the fact that you expect everything you say to be believed on your authority alone. If things are as obvious as you say, then maybe you can show us with proof from outside sources.

Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
I never asked you to stonewall, yet that's what I'm getting.
Squash tastes bad.  Lots of people agree.  Do you require proof of this as well or will the twisted looks on our faces suffice?  There are no peer reviewed studies, there is no documentation to research, just the fact people say they don't like squash.  Are they not telling the truth because you don't want to believe them?  

This whole "I'll say something, when someone disagrees I will demand tangible evidence for their claim and say they should, even if its obvious, but never contribute myself" game is a little silly.  You probably should no longer do it, but it's up to you.  Besides, you ask for political information on a none political thread, since you clearly desire to ignore what has been posted on this thread.  You know better than to ask for something I can't provide without violating posting rules.  

Believe what you want.  Most people do.  I prefer to believe what is true, but that is a personal choice I have made.

Saying "Marijuana use is a sin" or "has no medicinal benefits" or "the only advocates for medicinal use want to use it for recreational purposes" and "squash tastes bad" are two completely different categories. The latter is a matter of preference- there are plenty of people who find that squash tastes quite delicious. Even for myself, who does not under any circumstances eat squash, find my objections toward that particular food not to be based on a bad taste but rather a texture that makes me gag and even regurgitate every time I try to swallow it, no matter how good-tasting it might be.

The difference lies between saying "squash tastes bad" and "eating squash is a sin" or "squash has no medical benefits" or " the only advocates for the nutritional value of squash are conspirators who actually enjoy the taste of squash". One needs no qualification beyond the statement the others do.
Good job confusing the discussion.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 01:00:02 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #418 on: March 22, 2013, 01:12:56 AM »

I don't worry about places I don't live for this sort of thing.

So, according to you, smoking marijuana is sinful in some countries and isn't in others?

Not that that is Kerdy's position, but you have a hard time wrapping your head around this idea, don't you?  Cool
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« Reply #419 on: March 22, 2013, 01:34:58 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.
My eyes are open, Kerdy, open to the fact that you expect everything you say to be believed on your authority alone. If things are as obvious as you say, then maybe you can show us with proof from outside sources.

Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
I never asked you to stonewall, yet that's what I'm getting.
Squash tastes bad.  Lots of people agree.  Do you require proof of this as well or will the twisted looks on our faces suffice?  There are no peer reviewed studies, there is no documentation to research, just the fact people say they don't like squash.  Are they not telling the truth because you don't want to believe them?
"Squash tastes bad." = personal opinion

"Smoking marijuana is a sin." = assertion of fact

Personal opinion requires no proof.

Assertion of fact requires proof.

This whole "I'll say something, when someone disagrees I will demand tangible evidence for their claim and say they should, even if its obvious, but never contribute myself" game is a little silly.  You probably should no longer do it, but it's up to you.  Besides, you ask for political information on a none political thread, since you clearly desire to ignore what has been posted on this thread.  You know better than to ask for something I can't provide without violating posting rules.
Asking you to prove why the smoking of marijuana is a sin is not a request for political information.

Believe what you want.  Most people do.  I prefer to believe what is true, but that is a personal choice I have made.
Yet you can't prove it true.
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« Reply #420 on: March 22, 2013, 02:40:37 AM »

I think it is now safe to say the whole medicinal marijuana thing was a ruse.  Not only is it being used in this manner by the smallest possible/conceivable percentage of consumers, but I am still waiting for the quality studies revealing its medicinal use and application in the first place, which do not exist.  They do not exist for the same reason there are no existing quality studies on its ill effects.  There are; however, multiple studies showing the extremely high likelihood of negative effects, to which I just read one article in a muscle fitness magazine today warning of those effects.  

But, as most of us thinking people already knew, this was a sham, a lie, a ploy, to get MJ legalized for recreational consumption.  Just look at the discussion on this thread as evidence the use of MJ is not categorically considered medicinal, but rather for the purpose of getting high.  This is clear, this is simple, and this is truth.  The legalization of MJ has followed the same process as every other type of reckless proposal a certain type/group of people have proposed in the past.  The really depressing part is people were dumb enough to fall for it…again.  At this point I think people should at least start being honest about the whole thing.  


How is this conspiracy theory related to sinfulness (or not) of marijuana?

Are lies not sin?  Is the lie marijuana is for medicinal purposes to get it legalized for recreational use not a sin?  Are not the shifty statements of "there is no proof MJ is bad" a deception as people know there is equally (or less so) no proof MJ is as they attempt to describe it also sinful?  I could go on, but the painting is on the wall if anyone cares to look.  The intentional lack of honesty regarding MJ is sinful as well.   Let us not be so narrow-minded.

Conspiracy?  Only if truth is a conspiracy.
Usually, if something really is true, you wouldn't mind naming the sources you've been reading that prove it true.
Roll Eyes
So, then, you want everything you post here to be accepted on the authority of sic Kerdy dixit (thus saith Kerdy)?

Or, you could open your eyes and see things for what they are.
My eyes are open, Kerdy, open to the fact that you expect everything you say to be believed on your authority alone. If things are as obvious as you say, then maybe you can show us with proof from outside sources.

Either way.  It really makes no difference to me. Just remember when people get what they ask for, they really shouldn't complain about the results which follow.
I never asked you to stonewall, yet that's what I'm getting.
Squash tastes bad.  Lots of people agree.  Do you require proof of this as well or will the twisted looks on our faces suffice?  There are no peer reviewed studies, there is no documentation to research, just the fact people say they don't like squash.  Are they not telling the truth because you don't want to believe them?
"Squash tastes bad." = personal opinion

"Smoking marijuana is a sin." = assertion of fact

Personal opinion requires no proof.

Assertion of fact requires proof.

This whole "I'll say something, when someone disagrees I will demand tangible evidence for their claim and say they should, even if its obvious, but never contribute myself" game is a little silly.  You probably should no longer do it, but it's up to you.  Besides, you ask for political information on a none political thread, since you clearly desire to ignore what has been posted on this thread.  You know better than to ask for something I can't provide without violating posting rules.
Asking you to prove why the smoking of marijuana is a sin is not a request for political information.

Believe what you want.  Most people do.  I prefer to believe what is true, but that is a personal choice I have made.
Yet you can't prove it true.
Your dislike of the evidence provided in no way invalidates that evidence.

But, I suppose I'm done here.  People have always, will continue, and have in this thread, attempted to justify wrongs which they personally want to be rights.  It's what people do, the stain of sin on human flesh.  Folks can justify their sin to soften the guilt all they want, but they still know its sin.  It's always amused me how people fight with such ferocity to convince themselves of something.  

Oh, I almost forgot...you can't prove God is true either, Peter, but that doesn't change the fact He is.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 02:42:07 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #421 on: March 22, 2013, 10:04:03 AM »

I asked my priest once during confession if smoking marijuana was a sin and he said "I don't know if it's a sin but it's bad for you, for your mind".  He said this to me with such obvious concern and care for my well-being that the issue has never come up again for me.  Of course this proves nothing but ...
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« Reply #422 on: June 01, 2013, 03:23:18 PM »

Usling marijuana is not a sin and it is permitted for Mankind to make use of all herbs and plants upon God's earth as commanded by God in Genesis!
What is a sin is for a human being to put his or her authority above that of almighty God and believe himself to be more fit than the very definition of Wisdom: God to prohibit something in direct contradiction to His decree.

As humans we should use all plants for I believe not one is without use for man and especially cannabis have been proven good for certain conditions.

however! To smoke marijuana can be very harmful for your minds ability to remain stable under stressful situations as well as many other things. It's simply harmful & should only be used in very humble amounts if used recreationally.

You should of course comply with national law but we must also realize that governments are also sinful. For example governments now permit gay marriage and abortion and just because they're LAW doesnt mean they're infalliable. The Holy scriptures & the writings of the wise men of Old should be consulted with all problems.
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« Reply #423 on: June 01, 2013, 04:02:51 PM »

As humans we should use all plants

Wait, what? We should use lethal plants?
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« Reply #424 on: June 01, 2013, 04:09:37 PM »

As humans we should use all plants

Wait, what? We should use lethal plants?
I'm sure many lethal plants have a purpose for humans.  I'm no botanist, but I would not be surprised.
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« Reply #425 on: June 01, 2013, 11:03:07 PM »

As humans we should use all plants

Wait, what? We should use lethal plants?
its not like I said we should all start to randomly munch away in a garden of poisonous mushrooms. However even that which may be poisonous for direct digestion can contain things that if limited to a specific small dose by professionals can be good and even life saving.
Eating cannabis does not get you high and is one of the most effective medicines on the planet. Marijuana has been used by mankind and has been common in human society for thousands of years and just exande we happen to live in a moralistic anglophile civilization that forbids anything that does not comply to its cultural boundaries doesnt mean that it's either sound or right considering that in the broad sweep of history this civilization in it's current form is only a couple of hundreds of years (and is declining now) and is an anomaly.

Personally I dont think any governmental body has any right what so ever to tell a sovereign human being what out of the fruits of the earth is permissable to use, as long as it does not kill anyone else. To think that a government has the right to forbid us to eat/smoke a naturally occuring plant because it's narrow cultural frame of reference find the behaviour overdosage might produce in certain individuals "in-decent" seems to me as borderline idolatrous and an affront to the creator.  Consider that alcohol is rated the 2nd most dangerous drug in the world after injecting heroin and one realises that this is really not a problem with the substance itself but a cultural problem.
To move towards legalisation in the western world is well on its way and is the only sane option since governments really have no bussiness walking around earth as a benevolent creator telling the soil which plants not to bring up and telling creatures what natural plants not to digest.
The reason I believe this so strongly is that marijuana needs no chemical processing to be used while alcohol needs a rather complex process to be produced.

I would consult what church fathers and saints have said about this in the past or about alcohol as a comparison.
Rember also that in roman civilization (at least early one) drugs were very common among all classes of society and marijuana would probably be viewed more as a medicine 1st, recreational drug 2nd in these cultures. I know Opium was and its a far more powerful drug than marijuana as it constitutes the basic substance from which morphine and heroin was later produced through chemical manipulation and refinement. But most of these plants are alot less potent in their natural form and that is the only way I think we should use them for any recreational purposes (if you cant avoid recreational drug-use that is). Most people se recreational drugs in their lives but in the west this has been limited as much as possible to alcohol. But some people can never feel comfortable with alcohol as its effects in direct correlation with the dosage seem to be only a lack of balance and a significant increase of general stupidity. Marijuana however, while relaxing slightly opens up the mind to a deeper side of the human self and is very unlikely to result in violent behaviour of any sort. This has always been the go-to drug for certain kind of people in society and making this illegal has only bad consequences. When a 16-year old want to smoke weed in most of todays western societies it is necessary for him to come into contact with criminals as the plant is outlawed. As well as stigmatizing the 16-year Old in the eyes of general society by alienation from generally accepted culturural behaviour (increase in LACK of belonging) it drastically increases the possibility of personalities who in normal circumstances might have never considered a criminal lifestyle to now identify with criminal culture as it may seem more accepting of his life than general law-abiding culture. It also puts people not naturally prone to criminal behaviour or harder drugs to later on (if the habit continues) inevitably be offered to buy heroin, amphetamine, cocaine or other harder drugs and since marijuana is an illegal drug the reasoning might have one consider much harder drugs and eventually result in addiction because for the general society there's not much difference between certain illegal drugs esp. in the eyes of the law while in reality the potency difference between cannabis and cocaine is line between sugar and a bottle of vodka.
It also makes many young people lose trust in the states ability to know what is best for their life when they discover that the effect of alcohol is much more severe & potent than that of marijuana while the latter is illegal
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« Reply #426 on: June 12, 2013, 12:08:48 PM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?
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« Reply #427 on: June 12, 2013, 12:10:52 PM »

By the way most gangs and cartels and other criminal organizations live simply on the trade of illegalized drugs. So whoever came up with the idea to illegalize drugs is an ignoramus.



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« Reply #428 on: June 12, 2013, 12:17:10 PM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD. 
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« Reply #429 on: June 12, 2013, 12:35:41 PM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?
Why are you trying to hijack this thread? The OP has set the topic of discussion. Let's try to discuss that.
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« Reply #430 on: June 12, 2013, 01:15:12 PM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD. 
Yes I've heard the same about jews becoming religious after having witnessed the celestial angels carrying orthodox jewish "Holy, Holy, Holy" prayers towards Heaven.
I myself opened up to the fact that there is much of reality we do not percieve from eating "magic mushrooms".

I think hat it comes down to is that there is a general hunger for "Shamanism" or spiritual experiences among people & that todays society completely rejects this as superstition & that the only available options are what is deemed a ritualistic organized religion or drugs, although lately more & more people have started experimenting with buddhist, hindu, taoist & sikh meditational practices as a means to reach a higher state of conscioussness. We have deep inner prayer traditions in christianity too, especially within orthodoxy but at least the western churches seems to have lost the spirituality of religion. At least this is true for the protestant churches I grew up in.

But I would not advice anyone who is genuinely seeking God to so drugs to get a taste but to study the meditational practices of the church fathers & maybe monks with spiritual direction from a priest. Because i for believe it is wise to take shortcuts to experiencing spiritual realms because it's unsafe. It is something one will recieves by the grace of God, as a gift for genuinely praying & meditating & living good & those gifts last for eternity while the effects of drugs only last for so long & might even harm the state of your soul.
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« Reply #431 on: June 12, 2013, 02:49:37 PM »

Not if you're a Rastafari and identify with the Bob Marley smoking culture
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« Reply #432 on: June 13, 2013, 04:00:03 AM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD.  
I know people who became faithful spouses in their third marriage after not doing so in the first two.  I also have met women of the night who settle down and had a family.  I even met criminals who stopped committing their crimes, after being out in jail.  That doesn't mean what they did before was ok.
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« Reply #433 on: June 13, 2013, 04:22:12 PM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD.  
I know people who became faithful spouses in their third marriage after not doing so in the first two.  I also have met women of the night who settle down and had a family.  I even met criminals who stopped committing their crimes, after being out in jail.  That doesn't mean what they did before was ok.

Yes, except the question is whether or not X is a sin.  Since X is not mentioned in either Scripture or the Fathers, it behooves us to then look for other ways to weigh the merits of X.  One way of doing this is judging X by its fruit, which is why I mentioned some significant positives that have come from X.  The same cannot be said with the examples you gave because we have clear instructions against such from Tradition.

I personally don't advocate LCD or other such, but marijuana is almost as much a grey area as alcohol.  
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« Reply #434 on: June 13, 2013, 05:16:49 PM »

I'm just going to add that if we have problems with marijuana, then we should also have a problem with alcohol, tobacco, and even fatty fast-food. And out of these options, marijuana is surprisingly the least harmful, even though it is the most stigmatized and only illegal one. It's also impossible to drink alcohol without harming your liver, whereas marijuana has no observable long term negative effects identified.
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« Reply #435 on: June 13, 2013, 05:58:32 PM »

I'm just going to add that if we have problems with marijuana, then we should also have a problem with alcohol, tobacco, and even fatty fast-food. And out of these options, marijuana is surprisingly the least harmful, even though it is the most stigmatized and only illegal one. It's also impossible to drink alcohol without harming your liver, whereas marijuana has no observable long term negative effects identified.

I have a problem with all of those things. Except for some alcohol.
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« Reply #436 on: June 13, 2013, 06:25:28 PM »

Even good things can be sinful if they're done for the wrong reasons.

Knitting a scarf is sin if you're planning to sell it to raise money for Planned Parenthood.
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« Reply #437 on: June 13, 2013, 07:12:39 PM »

I'm just going to add that if we have problems with marijuana, then we should also have a problem with alcohol, tobacco, and even fatty fast-food. And out of these options, marijuana is surprisingly the least harmful, even though it is the most stigmatized and only illegal one. It's also impossible to drink alcohol without harming your liver, whereas marijuana has no observable long term negative effects identified.

I have a problem with all of those things. Except for some alcohol.

Buddy, for you it would probably be easier to list for us what you don't have a problem with.
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« Reply #438 on: June 13, 2013, 07:13:21 PM »

Even good things can be sinful if they're done for the wrong reasons.

Knitting a scarf is sin if you're planning to sell it to raise money for Planned Parenthood.

And you wonder why people . . . never mind.
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« Reply #439 on: June 13, 2013, 07:30:37 PM »

I'm just going to add that if we have problems with marijuana, then we should also have a problem with alcohol, tobacco, and even fatty fast-food. And out of these options, marijuana is surprisingly the least harmful, even though it is the most stigmatized and only illegal one. It's also impossible to drink alcohol without harming your liver, whereas marijuana has no observable long term negative effects identified.

I have a problem with all of those things. Except for some alcohol.

Buddy, for you it would probably be easier to list for us what you don't have a problem with.
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« Reply #440 on: June 13, 2013, 07:36:16 PM »

I'm just going to add that if we have problems with marijuana, then we should also have a problem with alcohol, tobacco, and even fatty fast-food. And out of these options, marijuana is surprisingly the least harmful, even though it is the most stigmatized and only illegal one. It's also impossible to drink alcohol without harming your liver, whereas marijuana has no observable long term negative effects identified.

I have a problem with all of those things. Except for some alcohol.

Buddy, for you it would probably be easier to list for us what you don't have a problem with.

Praying, bread, water.
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« Reply #441 on: June 13, 2013, 07:43:20 PM »

I don't smoke, and neither should you (unless you want to)!
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« Reply #442 on: June 13, 2013, 11:13:14 PM »

Even good things can be sinful if they're done for the wrong reasons.

Knitting a scarf is sin if you're planning to sell it to raise money for Planned Parenthood.

And you wonder why people . . . never mind.
you didn't know that was a sin, did you?
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« Reply #443 on: June 14, 2013, 12:17:39 AM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD.  
I know people who became faithful spouses in their third marriage after not doing so in the first two.  I also have met women of the night who settle down and had a family.  I even met criminals who stopped committing their crimes, after being out in jail.  That doesn't mean what they did before was ok.

Yes, except the question is whether or not X is a sin.  Since X is not mentioned in either Scripture or the Fathers, it behooves us to then look for other ways to weigh the merits of X.  One way of doing this is judging X by its fruit, which is why I mentioned some significant positives that have come from X.  The same cannot be said with the examples you gave because we have clear instructions against such from Tradition.

I personally don't advocate LCD or other such, but marijuana is almost as much a grey area as alcohol.  
I made a mistake and posted to this thread forgetting I said I would not.  I apologize; however, the same thing could be done showing the negatives.
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« Reply #444 on: June 14, 2013, 12:20:25 AM »

^I didn't think somebody would quote GMK in a non-ironic fashion in their sig. awesome. LOL
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« Reply #445 on: June 14, 2013, 12:54:08 AM »

^I didn't think somebody would quote GMK in a non-ironic fashion in their sig. awesome. LOL
I didn't think somebody would quote St. Paul through Gebre.
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« Reply #446 on: June 14, 2013, 01:15:02 AM »

^I didn't think somebody would quote GMK in a non-ironic fashion in their sig. awesome. LOL
I didn't think somebody would quote St. Paul through Gebre.
I didn't think grown men played children's games.  Looks like we are all surprised today.  Not only has this quote been there for some time (you guys are super observant), but if someone else made this statement, a reference would help.
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« Reply #447 on: June 14, 2013, 02:11:27 AM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD.  
I know people who became faithful spouses in their third marriage after not doing so in the first two.  I also have met women of the night who settle down and had a family.  I even met criminals who stopped committing their crimes, after being out in jail.  That doesn't mean what they did before was ok.

Yes, except the question is whether or not X is a sin.  Since X is not mentioned in either Scripture or the Fathers, it behooves us to then look for other ways to weigh the merits of X.  One way of doing this is judging X by its fruit, which is why I mentioned some significant positives that have come from X.  The same cannot be said with the examples you gave because we have clear instructions against such from Tradition.

I personally don't advocate LCD or other such, but marijuana is almost as much a grey area as alcohol.  

I wouldn't advocate LCD either. Plasma gives much clearer definition from all angles and no motion blurring  laugh
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« Reply #448 on: June 14, 2013, 03:32:13 AM »

^I didn't think somebody would quote GMK in a non-ironic fashion in their sig. awesome. LOL
I didn't think somebody would quote St. Paul through Gebre.
I didn't think grown men played children's games.  Looks like we are all surprised today.  Not only has this quote been there for some time (you guys are super observant), but if someone else made this statement, a reference would help.
...what
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
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« Reply #449 on: June 14, 2013, 02:01:15 PM »

The topic should have been "is it a sin to be high?" and we would not have the political/economical/medical discussion about it. Marijuana is psychoactive, unlike alcohol but like mushrooms, cactus and bark.

So may I ask then, is it a sin to be high and reach alternate states of consciousness?

I know of some people who became Christians after getting high on LSD.  
I know people who became faithful spouses in their third marriage after not doing so in the first two.  I also have met women of the night who settle down and had a family.  I even met criminals who stopped committing their crimes, after being out in jail.  That doesn't mean what they did before was ok.

Yes, except the question is whether or not X is a sin.  Since X is not mentioned in either Scripture or the Fathers, it behooves us to then look for other ways to weigh the merits of X.  One way of doing this is judging X by its fruit, which is why I mentioned some significant positives that have come from X.  The same cannot be said with the examples you gave because we have clear instructions against such from Tradition.

I personally don't advocate LCD or other such, but marijuana is almost as much a grey area as alcohol.  

I wouldn't advocate LCD either. Plasma gives much clearer definition from all angles and no motion blurring  laugh

LSD, smart-alec!

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Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Tags: sin Orthodox Christian Fellowship marijuana alcohol drugs bee in bonnet pot weed 
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