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MarianCatholic
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« on: September 13, 2014, 10:54:14 AM »

Hi y'all!
I'm currently thinking of attending an Orthodox liturgy/ service the next time I'm in Oslo and in this connection I'm wondering if its anything I should know before going.
If I'm just sitting there observing and not participating (obviously as I'm not familiar with it) does others think its weird in any way?
Is it easy to just blend in and be there anonymously?
Is it even remotely similar to Catholic Mass?
Is it OK to make the sign of the cross as I enter the church and do you genuflect to the Tabernacle/ altar?

I'm sorry if my questions seems idiotic, but bear with me as I dont know that much about the orthodox faith.
Also is it disrespectful to attend your service since I have to intention what so ever to leave my Catholic faith or is it OK to enriching my spiritual life by attending your services from time to time if I like attending?

And finally my last question:p Is it best for me to go to the Greek Church or the Russian and is the Russian Liturgy held in Russian and the Greek in Greek? If that so I'm not going to understand one single word:(



Thanks in advance for any answers;)




Yours in Jesus and Mary
- MarianCatholic

 

« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 10:55:11 AM by MarianCatholic » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2014, 11:07:28 AM »

There are parts where you do need to stand - they are the same as in the RC - when the Gospel is Read, when the Bread and Wine are Entered and during the celebration of the Eucharist.  It will be more difficult for you to see when this is, as depending on what church you go to, most will stand through out the Liturgy and only sit during the reading of the letters and the Homily.  (But I think the Greek Churches are very similar in sitting/standing as what you are currently used to).

We do cross ourselves on entry.

We do not genuflect - but do as you are comfortable.  I genuflected, and it didn't seem to bother anyone. We do however, cross ourselves in front of the alter/tabernacle each time we pass the center of the sanctuary.  We just don't go down on one knee.

Just observe and participate where you feel you can.  You cannot take Holy Communion, but you can participate in the blessed bread if you so desire.  

Is this your first time visiting during Liturgy?

Edit: Oh, and you will not find Holy Water to bless yourself with.  I looked for it everywhere my first time. Smiley It was a bit unsettling not to find it.





« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 11:09:38 AM by quietmorning » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2014, 11:21:12 AM »

There are parts where you do need to stand - they are the same as in the RC - when the Gospel is Read, when the Bread and Wine are Entered and during the celebration of the Eucharist.  It will be more difficult for you to see when this is, as depending on what church you go to, most will stand through out the Liturgy and only sit during the reading of the letters and the Homily.  (But I think the Greek Churches are very similar in sitting/standing as what you are currently used to).

We do cross ourselves on entry.

We do not genuflect - but do as you are comfortable.  I genuflected, and it didn't seem to bother anyone. We do however, cross ourselves in front of the alter/tabernacle each time we pass the center of the sanctuary.  We just don't go down on one knee.

Just observe and participate where you feel you can.  You cannot take Holy Communion, but you can participate in the blessed bread if you so desire.  

Is this your first time visiting during Liturgy?

Edit: Oh, and you will not find Holy Water to bless yourself with.  I looked for it everywhere my first time. Smiley It was a bit unsettling not to find it.







No holy water? good to know I would probably have been looking for it Tongue
I havent been to any orthodox services or anything ever before so as Ive said Im as green as they come:P
Are you a convert from the Catholic Church? just curious:P
Participate in the Blessed bread??? What does that mean exactly?
I do not intercommune so I`ll not partake in the communion as Im Catholic and are planning to stay catholic and also in respect of your church obviously:)
Im really curious about the Orthodox church for some reason, I really dont know why to be honest as Im happy in my church and I do absolutely love my catholic faith. Who knows?

So for me as an Roman Catholic you would recommend for me to visit the Greek Church as its more similar to what Im used to?




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- MarianCatholic


« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 11:21:55 AM by MarianCatholic » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2014, 11:36:29 AM »

Hi y'all!
I'm currently thinking of attending an Orthodox liturgy/ service the next time I'm in Oslo and in this connection I'm wondering if its anything I should know before going.
If I'm just sitting there observing and not participating (obviously as I'm not familiar with it) does others think its weird in any way?
Is it easy to just blend in and be there anonymously?
Is it even remotely similar to Catholic Mass?
Is it OK to make the sign of the cross as I enter the church and do you genuflect to the Tabernacle/ altar?

I'm sorry if my questions seems idiotic, but bear with me as I dont know that much about the orthodox faith.
Also is it disrespectful to attend your service since I have to intention what so ever to leave my Catholic faith or is it OK to enriching my spiritual life by attending your services from time to time if I like attending?

And finally my last question:p Is it best for me to go to the Greek Church or the Russian and is the Russian Liturgy held in Russian and the Greek in Greek? If that so I'm not going to understand one single word:(



Thanks in advance for any answers;)




Yours in Jesus and Mary
- MarianCatholic

 




The OCA ( Orthodox Church in America ) holds all of its Divine Liturgies in English....
Holy Water is normally available (at least in my parish ) to take home in containers that are sold in the church vestibule.
The Holy Water fonts are a nice touch.  I think it would be a plus if Orthodox would adopt that tradition.
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 11:44:55 AM »

The blessed bread is given out at the end of the Liturgy. You go up to the front with the rest of the congregation, kiss the crucifix that the priest is holding (and, traditionally, the priest's hand as well), and then an altar server stands to the side with a bowl of the blessed bread, and you take a piece. It's sort of the equivalent of how, in Roman Catholic churches, you might go up to receive a blessing from the priest instead of communion if you aren't Catholic or didn't make it to confession.
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2014, 11:52:29 AM »

The Blessed Bread is served after Holy Communion.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidoron

In our church, the children and the parishioners usually take the blessed bread to the visitors, inquirers and catechumans and offer it to them.  It is perfectly OK to turn it down if you want to.  It is an offering of welcoming and love when it is offered to you.  Some churches offer it at a separate table and you are welcome to go up to the table and help yourself.  It is not the Body of Christ, it is blessed bread.  It is holy, so should be treated reverently.  Try not to allow any crumbs to fall on the floor.

My only suggestion for where to go is that you try more than one (jurisdiction - Greek, OCA, Antiochian, etc)  - and try to go to an English speaking service if at all possible.  There is a Greek Orthodox Church I go to when I visit my sons, it is so beautiful, and they mix the English with the Greek. ..absolutely beautiful.  To hear Greek sung is . . . heavenly.  It is so incredibly beautiful.  But it is good to be able to understand.

It might also be reasonable to suggest that you do not try to follow along from the prayer book.  (That really complicates matters - as it's like following the missal when you go to the RC for the first time.  Unless you are familiar with the names each part of the service, it is almost impossible.)
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2014, 11:58:37 AM »

**chuckles**

As you can see by reading the different replies, the churches differ a little here and here in some places.  This is why I really recommend, if you can do it, to visit more than one Liturgy at more than one church. 

I also highly recommend visiting Matins (or Orthos) before Liturgy and Vespers and Great Vespers.  These are different and beautiful prayer services.  The RC has these, but they are usually reserved for the monastics.  I don't know if they are currently holding these services for the laity.
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 12:10:26 PM »

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=okoViBKeQdI

Here's a video of Divine Liturgy på finlandssvensk and with Norwegian subtitles. That'll give you a general idea how Slavic DL looks like. Greeks are a bit different but the structure of the service is more or less the same.
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« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 05:35:17 PM »

You may find some parts of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy similar to the Mass of other churches.

It's a good idea to stand when they stand, sit when they sit (as my father used to say). Smiley Generally, if you are quiet and follow the behavior of those around you, you should be okay. Just don't go up to Communion. Sorry, you are not allowed unless you are Orthodox.

Some churches have booklets with the liturgy printed in them, so you can read along if you wish. You're welcome to use these while you're at church. Please return them to where you found them before you leave.

I hope you like it.  Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 05:40:57 PM »

Hi y'all!
I'm currently thinking of attending an Orthodox liturgy/ service the next time I'm in Oslo and in this connection I'm wondering if its anything I should know before going.
If I'm just sitting there observing and not participating (obviously as I'm not familiar with it) does others think its weird in any way?
Is it easy to just blend in and be there anonymously?
Is it even remotely similar to Catholic Mass?
Is it OK to make the sign of the cross as I enter the church and do you genuflect to the Tabernacle/ altar?

I'm sorry if my questions seems idiotic, but bear with me as I dont know that much about the orthodox faith.
Also is it disrespectful to attend your service since I have to intention what so ever to leave my Catholic faith or is it OK to enriching my spiritual life by attending your services from time to time if I like attending?

And finally my last question:p Is it best for me to go to the Greek Church or the Russian and is the Russian Liturgy held in Russian and the Greek in Greek? If that so I'm not going to understand one single word:(



Thanks in advance for any answers;)




Yours in Jesus and Mary
- MarianCatholic

 



I had attended the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church on my way to Orthodox Christianity, not that I had intended on converting, but Orthodox Christianity did look good from my first encounter with it.

When the Melkite Priest told me that the theology was the same, I took the leap and started attending Orthodox Christian inquiry classes.

The Divine Liturgy has the same two parts: the Liturgy of the Catechumens and the Anaphora (Holy Eucharist). If you are used to attending the Novus Ordo, you will recognize the processions, etc.

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« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 06:46:21 PM »

Comparison of Roman and Orthodox Liturgical Practices

Usually these types of comparisons are... unfair towards Rome. This seems a bit more balanced than others.

Quote
If I'm just sitting there observing and not participating (obviously as I'm not familiar with it) does others think its weird in any way?
Is it easy to just blend in and be there anonymously?
Is it even remotely similar to Catholic Mass?
Is it OK to make the sign of the cross as I enter the church and do you genuflect to the Tabernacle/ altar?

You'll probably want to stand with everyone else. I guess it's your choice. When I go to an Orthodox Church, I find it really hard not to stand out. It's quite similar to the Catholic Mass, the difference is mainly that the Catholic Mass has developed a lot more than the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. It's good to make the sign of the Cross, and to venerate the Icons. Orthodox make the sign of the Cross a little differently than Western Catholics.

The hand should look like:



I'm sure it's okay if you do it the Catholic way too though, if you are just observing.
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 07:06:00 PM »

Comparison of Roman and Orthodox Liturgical Practices

Usually these types of comparisons are... unfair towards Rome. This seems a bit more balanced than others.

Quote
If I'm just sitting there observing and not participating (obviously as I'm not familiar with it) does others think its weird in any way?
Is it easy to just blend in and be there anonymously?
Is it even remotely similar to Catholic Mass?
Is it OK to make the sign of the cross as I enter the church and do you genuflect to the Tabernacle/ altar?

You'll probably want to stand with everyone else. I guess it's your choice. When I go to an Orthodox Church, I find it really hard not to stand out. It's quite similar to the Catholic Mass, the difference is mainly that the Catholic Mass has developed a lot more than the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. It's good to make the sign of the Cross, and to venerate the Icons. Orthodox make the sign of the Cross a little differently than Western Catholics.

The hand should look like:



I'm sure it's okay if you do it the Catholic way too though, if you are just observing.

Only, don't do what I did.

Once I started attending the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church, I made the Sign of the Cross the Orthodox way (right to left) with the correct fingering because all Melkites in that church did so, and I was taught properly, "When in Rome do as the Romans."

Then I attended a Mass with some friends and the next day went back to the Melkite Catholic Church when the Melkite Bishop was concelebrating that Divine Liturgy. Several times during the Divine Liturgy, I made the Sign of the Cross the way that Roman Catholics do, but once the Bishop saw me do so, he fixated on me with a puzzled face.

So, the next time I made the Sign of the Cross, I determined to do it correctly, but I really messed up.

My hand first went from left to right, then right to left, and then again left to right. Truly I was confused which way was right.

Then during the Nicene Creed, when everyone else was taking a breath, I said the filioque "and the Son" quite loudly in that small church. The Bishop looked at me, his face turning red.

After the Divine Liturgy, I went up to him and apologized. He looked at me, smiled, and said, "It happens. Do not go back to the Roman Catholic Church."
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« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 07:08:22 PM »

From what I have experienced, if you would like to blend in, attend the Greek parish because they tend to be larger than Russian parishes.
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 07:43:04 PM »

Comparison of Roman and Orthodox Liturgical Practices

Usually these types of comparisons are... unfair towards Rome. This seems a bit more balanced than others.

Quote
If I'm just sitting there observing and not participating (obviously as I'm not familiar with it) does others think its weird in any way?
Is it easy to just blend in and be there anonymously?
Is it even remotely similar to Catholic Mass?
Is it OK to make the sign of the cross as I enter the church and do you genuflect to the Tabernacle/ altar?

You'll probably want to stand with everyone else. I guess it's your choice. When I go to an Orthodox Church, I find it really hard not to stand out. It's quite similar to the Catholic Mass, the difference is mainly that the Catholic Mass has developed a lot more than the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. It's good to make the sign of the Cross, and to venerate the Icons. Orthodox make the sign of the Cross a little differently than Western Catholics.

The hand should look like:



I'm sure it's okay if you do it the Catholic way too though, if you are just observing.

Only, don't do what I did.

Once I started attending the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church, I made the Sign of the Cross the Orthodox way (right to left) with the correct fingering because all Melkites in that church did so, and I was taught properly, "When in Rome do as the Romans."

Then I attended a Mass with some friends and the next day went back to the Melkite Catholic Church when the Melkite Bishop was concelebrating that Divine Liturgy. Several times during the Divine Liturgy, I made the Sign of the Cross the way that Roman Catholics do, but once the Bishop saw me do so, he fixated on me with a puzzled face.

So, the next time I made the Sign of the Cross, I determined to do it correctly, but I really messed up.

My hand first went from left to right, then right to left, and then again left to right. Truly I was confused which way was right.

Then during the Nicene Creed, when everyone else was taking a breath, I said the filioque "and the Son" quite loudly in that small church. The Bishop looked at me, his face turning red.

After the Divine Liturgy, I went up to him and apologized. He looked at me, smiled, and said, "It happens. Do not go back to the Roman Catholic Church."

Wired is my opinion.
We are in communion with the Melkits so I can't see why on earth this bishop should've talked you away from attending Latin services, but then again he favoured their liturgical celebration over the Roman Rite and wanted you to become Melkite over Latin Catholic could be an explanation I don't know?

Ha ha, the Nicene creed error you made had to be embarrassing for sure:P
I've done similar myself previously:S

I always tend to say the wrong part in the end of my confession.
There are two different confession rites that are being used in Norway and for some reason I do answer with the wrong reply 2 our of 3 times and every time I feel so stupid:P
Father just sits there in silence while I say, ahh good bye father.
Ha ha, sooo akward....

Starting before everyone else when singing psalms and hymns are also akward:P

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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 07:57:17 PM »


Only, don't do what I did.

Once I started attending the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church, I made the Sign of the Cross the Orthodox way (right to left) with the correct fingering because all Melkites in that church did so, and I was taught properly, "When in Rome do as the Romans."

Then I attended a Mass with some friends and the next day went back to the Melkite Catholic Church when the Melkite Bishop was concelebrating that Divine Liturgy. Several times during the Divine Liturgy, I made the Sign of the Cross the way that Roman Catholics do, but once the Bishop saw me do so, he fixated on me with a puzzled face.

So, the next time I made the Sign of the Cross, I determined to do it correctly, but I really messed up.

My hand first went from left to right, then right to left, and then again left to right. Truly I was confused which way was right.

Then during the Nicene Creed, when everyone else was taking a breath, I said the filioque "and the Son" quite loudly in that small church. The Bishop looked at me, his face turning red.

After the Divine Liturgy, I went up to him and apologized. He looked at me, smiled, and said, "It happens. Do not go back to the Roman Catholic Church."

Wired is my opinion.
We are in communion with the Melkits so I can't see why on earth this bishop should've talked you away from attending Latin services, but then again he favoured their liturgical celebration over the Roman Rite and wanted you to become Melkite over Latin Catholic could be an explanation I don't know?

Ha ha, the Nicene creed error you made had to be embarrassing for sure:P
I've done similar myself previously:S

I always tend to say the wrong part in the end of my confession.
There are two different confession rites that are being used in Norway and for some reason I do answer with the wrong reply 2 our of 3 times and every time I feel so stupid:P
Father just sits there in silence while I say, ahh good bye father.
Ha ha, sooo akward....

Starting before everyone else when singing psalms and hymns are also akward:P



The Melkite bishop knew that I had visited the Roman Catholic Church the previous day, so he was watching for me to make this mistake. He has seen it too many times in the past.

His admonition not to go back again was correct. He did not want me to do similar acrobatics every time I made the Sign of the Cross. For a while, in order to correct this mistake, I was saying silently to myself, "In the Name of the Father, and the Son (Right,  Left). ....
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2014, 09:57:09 PM »

I had to chuckle when I saw the reply about how to hold your hand when crossing yourself and from the right to the left.  When I came to the Orthodox Church  people kept telling me that the RC didn't cross themselves 'correctly' and when they asked me to cross my self 'thus so' I just smiled and crossed myself the way I always did, since it was correct. 

I was taught to cross myself by an Irish Catholic Nun in Florida.  She taught me the correct way - and I never did anything different. 

So some of the RC out there actually got very good instruction.
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