Author Topic: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)  (Read 1217 times)

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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 10:31:25 AM »
... CV II and liberation theology, however, were violent final blows. This is probably why there's a proportionally large group hungry for Orthodoxy or the Tridentine rite, too. As a reaction.
It must be pointed that, when Bp. Lefebvre consecrated four bishops without Rome's permission, considered by Rome a schismatic act, the other consecrator bishop was Bp. Meyer of Campos, Rio de Janeiro.

It's interesting how so many people were scandalized by the Novus Ordo liturgy then.  Even in Brazil, a country not known for strictness.
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2017, 10:33:16 AM »
... One of their most distinct marks is the Eucharist offered in a square shaped table with all people around it, in wich they participate in the eucharist then dance some sort of hava nagila circle dance.
Sure, why not?  After the Novus Ordo and the spirit of VII were unleashed in the West, why stop there?
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2017, 01:16:35 PM »
... One of their most distinct marks is the Eucharist offered in a square shaped table with all people around it, in wich they participate in the eucharist then dance some sort of hava nagila circle dance.
Sure, why not?  After the Novus Ordo and the spirit of VII were unleashed in the West, why stop there?

Their songs are nice tho, way better than the happy clappy stuff you see in charismatic parishes, I like the song 'ven del Líbano/vem do Libano'.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2017, 07:02:16 PM »
... CV II and liberation theology, however, were violent final blows. This is probably why there's a proportionally large group hungry for Orthodoxy or the Tridentine rite, too. As a reaction.
It must be pointed that, when Bp. Lefebvre consecrated four bishops without Rome's permission, considered by Rome a schismatic act, the other consecrator bishop was Bp. Meyer of Campos, Rio de Janeiro.

It's interesting how so many people were scandalized by the Novus Ordo liturgy then.  Even in Brazil, a country not known for strictness.
He was actually bishop of Campos. I once fell in love with this nice girl from Campos, but, as expected, she was a very strict Catholic who, although interested on how Orthodoxy was, probably wouldn't date outside her circle.
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2017, 10:34:49 AM »
Rapha, está de parabéns! (congrats!), valeu ai!, thank you for the precise explanation of this, I never correctly understood what Candomblé or Umbanda were, I just always understood extreme, borderline violent hatred of this movement, being an Ex-Evangelical from Brazil.

This is Fr. José Pinto, an actual Roman Catholic priest, getting possessed by a couple of spirits, including a pombagira (Umbanda class of spirits represented as promiscuous women) during an actual Roman Catholic mass. His then bishop (Abp. Geraldo Agnelo) was already a cardinal-priest at this time. At least they all look happy.


Vatican II and Liberation Theology ruined roman catholicism in Brazil, no wonder why the number of catholic decrease every year.

My mother left the RC Church in her early teens for several reasons, the main reason however, is because my grandmother often used take her for those syncretic ceremonies, this apparently scared her for life, and to this day she outright refuses to discuss anything related to Candomblé or Umbanda for that matter, it is as if you discuss this you are inviting evil spirits by merely uttering specific words, she really seems to have been traumatized, just for you to have any idea, she refuses to ever go to an Orthodox Church because the incense reminds her of these past experiences!
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2017, 10:44:40 AM »
Mass hysteria, no, but Evangelicals go crazy about how Satanic and idolater it is to share candy in bags with saints, and they can even do it in solely anti-Catholic grounds without even mentioning the orixá cult!  :laugh:



When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Also, did any of you remember St. Cosmas and St. Damian in that awful Didi movie? ;D

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Offline juliogb

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2017, 11:32:31 AM »
Quote
When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Well, I never heard this terrible version of St. Cosmas and Damian, but due to the umbanda and candomblé stuff I allways related them to afro-american religions, till I made some research about them.

Saint George of Capadocia also is heavily related to those religions.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2017, 12:07:56 PM »
Rapha, está de parabéns! (congrats!), valeu ai!, thank you for the precise explanation of this, I never correctly understood what Candomblé or Umbanda were, I just always understood extreme, borderline violent hatred of this movement, being an Ex-Evangelical from Brazil.
Didn't know you were Brazilian, cool! Where are you from, exactly?

Quote
to this day she outright refuses to discuss anything related to Candomblé or Umbanda for that matter, it is as if you discuss this you are inviting evil spirits by merely uttering specific words, she really seems to have been traumatized, just for you to have any idea, she refuses to ever go to an Orthodox Church because the incense reminds her of these past experiences!
I've seen some of this superstition, I think it's just a reversed form of the respect they once held.

Also, did any of you remember St. Cosmas and St. Damian in that awful Didi movie? ;D
LOL, I unfortunately do!
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2017, 11:14:37 AM »
Quote
to this day she outright refuses to discuss anything related to Candomblé or Umbanda for that matter, it is as if you discuss this you are inviting evil spirits by merely uttering specific words, she really seems to have been traumatized, just for you to have any idea, she refuses to ever go to an Orthodox Church because the incense reminds her of these past experiences!
I've seen some of this superstition, I think it's just a reversed form of the respect they once held.
This is an interesting thesis.  It does seem to be the typical case.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:14:53 AM by Sharbel »
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2017, 12:37:15 PM »
Quote
When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Well, I never heard this terrible version of St. Cosmas and Damian, but due to the umbanda and candomblé stuff I allways related them to afro-american religions, till I made some research about them.

Saint George of Capadocia also is heavily related to those religions.

The Wikipedia religion suggests some special veneration of these saints in Brazil which via syncretism was appropriated by the evil candomble faith, but from tne film you are referring to, et cetera, I am guessing there is a huge amount of Brasil-specific cultural context concerning these saints, who I as a mere conwertsy venerate with great reverance just based on the standard hagiography, as unmercenary healers; perhaps Rapha you could shed some light on that for us?
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2017, 01:01:50 PM »
Quote
When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Well, I never heard this terrible version of St. Cosmas and Damian, but due to the umbanda and candomblé stuff I allways related them to afro-american religions, till I made some research about them.

Saint George of Capadocia also is heavily related to those religions.

The Wikipedia religion suggests some special veneration of these saints in Brazil which via syncretism was appropriated by the evil candomble faith, but from tne film you are referring to, et cetera, I am guessing there is a huge amount of Brasil-specific cultural context concerning these saints, who I as a mere conwertsy venerate with great reverance just based on the standard hagiography, as unmercenary healers; perhaps Rapha you could shed some light on that for us?

Just giving context, it is a horribly made, unfunny comedy film for kids starring a now retired comedian named Renato Aragão, known by his stage name "Didi" (I got that image from YouTube, where it is fully available), from what I have heard over the years, its film director is perhaps a practitioner of one of those syncretic movements, and not the actors involved as far as I am concerned, but yeah, apparently, everyone involved with the film was apparently okay with this.
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 2 Corinthians 13:14

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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2017, 01:16:46 PM »
I am afraid to get a mod warning for not citing the name of the film, the name of the movie is Didi Quer Ser Criança, by Alexandre and Fernando Boury, that was almost 18 years ago!!! :o
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 01:18:44 PM by Nicodemusz138 »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2017, 11:54:20 PM »
The Wikipedia religion suggests some special veneration of these saints in Brazil which via syncretism was appropriated by the evil candomble faith, but from tne film you are referring to, et cetera, I am guessing there is a huge amount of Brasil-specific cultural context concerning these saints, who I as a mere conwertsy venerate with great reverance just based on the standard hagiography, as unmercenary healers; perhaps Rapha you could shed some light on that for us?
I'm not sure whether their so widespread veneration can be attributed to syncretism, but RC's are very fond of them here anyway. Our oldest parish in the country was dedicated to them.

Just giving context, it is a horribly made, unfunny comedy film for kids starring a now retired comedian named Renato Aragão, known by his stage name "Didi" (I got that image from YouTube, where it is fully available), from what I have heard over the years, its film director is perhaps a practitioner of one of those syncretic movements, and not the actors involved as far as I am concerned, but yeah, apparently, everyone involved with the film was apparently okay with this.
Didi is known for being a pious RC, it's sad that he submitted himself to something that actually involves Candomblé/Umbanda if this is the case.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:57:35 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)