Author Topic: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)  (Read 3122 times)

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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 10:31:25 AM »
... CV II and liberation theology, however, were violent final blows. This is probably why there's a proportionally large group hungry for Orthodoxy or the Tridentine rite, too. As a reaction.
It must be pointed that, when Bp. Lefebvre consecrated four bishops without Rome's permission, considered by Rome a schismatic act, the other consecrator bishop was Bp. Meyer of Campos, Rio de Janeiro.

It's interesting how so many people were scandalized by the Novus Ordo liturgy then.  Even in Brazil, a country not known for strictness.
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2017, 10:33:16 AM »
... One of their most distinct marks is the Eucharist offered in a square shaped table with all people around it, in wich they participate in the eucharist then dance some sort of hava nagila circle dance.
Sure, why not?  After the Novus Ordo and the spirit of VII were unleashed in the West, why stop there?
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2017, 01:16:35 PM »
... One of their most distinct marks is the Eucharist offered in a square shaped table with all people around it, in wich they participate in the eucharist then dance some sort of hava nagila circle dance.
Sure, why not?  After the Novus Ordo and the spirit of VII were unleashed in the West, why stop there?

Their songs are nice tho, way better than the happy clappy stuff you see in charismatic parishes, I like the song 'ven del Líbano/vem do Libano'.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2017, 07:02:16 PM »
... CV II and liberation theology, however, were violent final blows. This is probably why there's a proportionally large group hungry for Orthodoxy or the Tridentine rite, too. As a reaction.
It must be pointed that, when Bp. Lefebvre consecrated four bishops without Rome's permission, considered by Rome a schismatic act, the other consecrator bishop was Bp. Meyer of Campos, Rio de Janeiro.

It's interesting how so many people were scandalized by the Novus Ordo liturgy then.  Even in Brazil, a country not known for strictness.
He was actually bishop of Campos. I once fell in love with this nice girl from Campos, but, as expected, she was a very strict Catholic who, although interested on how Orthodoxy was, probably wouldn't date outside her circle.
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2017, 10:34:49 AM »
Rapha, está de parabéns! (congrats!), valeu ai!, thank you for the precise explanation of this, I never correctly understood what Candomblé or Umbanda were, I just always understood extreme, borderline violent hatred of this movement, being an Ex-Evangelical from Brazil.

This is Fr. José Pinto, an actual Roman Catholic priest, getting possessed by a couple of spirits, including a pombagira (Umbanda class of spirits represented as promiscuous women) during an actual Roman Catholic mass. His then bishop (Abp. Geraldo Agnelo) was already a cardinal-priest at this time. At least they all look happy.


Vatican II and Liberation Theology ruined roman catholicism in Brazil, no wonder why the number of catholic decrease every year.

My mother left the RC Church in her early teens for several reasons, the main reason however, is because my grandmother often used take her for those syncretic ceremonies, this apparently scared her for life, and to this day she outright refuses to discuss anything related to Candomblé or Umbanda for that matter, it is as if you discuss this you are inviting evil spirits by merely uttering specific words, she really seems to have been traumatized, just for you to have any idea, she refuses to ever go to an Orthodox Church because the incense reminds her of these past experiences!
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2017, 10:44:40 AM »
Mass hysteria, no, but Evangelicals go crazy about how Satanic and idolater it is to share candy in bags with saints, and they can even do it in solely anti-Catholic grounds without even mentioning the orixá cult!  :laugh:



When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Also, did any of you remember St. Cosmas and St. Damian in that awful Didi movie? ;D

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2017, 11:32:31 AM »
Quote
When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Well, I never heard this terrible version of St. Cosmas and Damian, but due to the umbanda and candomblé stuff I allways related them to afro-american religions, till I made some research about them.

Saint George of Capadocia also is heavily related to those religions.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2017, 12:07:56 PM »
Rapha, está de parabéns! (congrats!), valeu ai!, thank you for the precise explanation of this, I never correctly understood what Candomblé or Umbanda were, I just always understood extreme, borderline violent hatred of this movement, being an Ex-Evangelical from Brazil.
Didn't know you were Brazilian, cool! Where are you from, exactly?

Quote
to this day she outright refuses to discuss anything related to Candomblé or Umbanda for that matter, it is as if you discuss this you are inviting evil spirits by merely uttering specific words, she really seems to have been traumatized, just for you to have any idea, she refuses to ever go to an Orthodox Church because the incense reminds her of these past experiences!
I've seen some of this superstition, I think it's just a reversed form of the respect they once held.

Also, did any of you remember St. Cosmas and St. Damian in that awful Didi movie? ;D
LOL, I unfortunately do!
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2017, 11:14:37 AM »
Quote
to this day she outright refuses to discuss anything related to Candomblé or Umbanda for that matter, it is as if you discuss this you are inviting evil spirits by merely uttering specific words, she really seems to have been traumatized, just for you to have any idea, she refuses to ever go to an Orthodox Church because the incense reminds her of these past experiences!
I've seen some of this superstition, I think it's just a reversed form of the respect they once held.
This is an interesting thesis.  It does seem to be the typical case.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:14:53 AM by Sharbel »
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2017, 12:37:15 PM »
Quote
When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Well, I never heard this terrible version of St. Cosmas and Damian, but due to the umbanda and candomblé stuff I allways related them to afro-american religions, till I made some research about them.

Saint George of Capadocia also is heavily related to those religions.

The Wikipedia religion suggests some special veneration of these saints in Brazil which via syncretism was appropriated by the evil candomble faith, but from tne film you are referring to, et cetera, I am guessing there is a huge amount of Brasil-specific cultural context concerning these saints, who I as a mere conwertsy venerate with great reverance just based on the standard hagiography, as unmercenary healers; perhaps Rapha you could shed some light on that for us?
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2017, 01:01:50 PM »
Quote
When I was young, I was taught by my mother that St. Cosmas and St. Damian were criminals who kidnapped children by attracting them with candy and then tortured and killed them in satanic rituals, but then, they were captured by the authorities who decapitated the evildoers... that story scared me for life, I had an extremely negative view of saints after this, and is still taking some time to fully recover, I still do not know where she got this story from, perhaps their church maybe?, I am not sure.

Well, I never heard this terrible version of St. Cosmas and Damian, but due to the umbanda and candomblé stuff I allways related them to afro-american religions, till I made some research about them.

Saint George of Capadocia also is heavily related to those religions.

The Wikipedia religion suggests some special veneration of these saints in Brazil which via syncretism was appropriated by the evil candomble faith, but from tne film you are referring to, et cetera, I am guessing there is a huge amount of Brasil-specific cultural context concerning these saints, who I as a mere conwertsy venerate with great reverance just based on the standard hagiography, as unmercenary healers; perhaps Rapha you could shed some light on that for us?

Just giving context, it is a horribly made, unfunny comedy film for kids starring a now retired comedian named Renato Aragão, known by his stage name "Didi" (I got that image from YouTube, where it is fully available), from what I have heard over the years, its film director is perhaps a practitioner of one of those syncretic movements, and not the actors involved as far as I am concerned, but yeah, apparently, everyone involved with the film was apparently okay with this.
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Offline Nicodemusz138

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2017, 01:16:46 PM »
I am afraid to get a mod warning for not citing the name of the film, the name of the movie is Didi Quer Ser Criança, by Alexandre and Fernando Boury, that was almost 18 years ago!!! :o
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 01:18:44 PM by Nicodemusz138 »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2017, 11:54:20 PM »
The Wikipedia religion suggests some special veneration of these saints in Brazil which via syncretism was appropriated by the evil candomble faith, but from tne film you are referring to, et cetera, I am guessing there is a huge amount of Brasil-specific cultural context concerning these saints, who I as a mere conwertsy venerate with great reverance just based on the standard hagiography, as unmercenary healers; perhaps Rapha you could shed some light on that for us?
I'm not sure whether their so widespread veneration can be attributed to syncretism, but RC's are very fond of them here anyway. Our oldest parish in the country was dedicated to them.

Just giving context, it is a horribly made, unfunny comedy film for kids starring a now retired comedian named Renato Aragão, known by his stage name "Didi" (I got that image from YouTube, where it is fully available), from what I have heard over the years, its film director is perhaps a practitioner of one of those syncretic movements, and not the actors involved as far as I am concerned, but yeah, apparently, everyone involved with the film was apparently okay with this.
Didi is known for being a pious RC, it's sad that he submitted himself to something that actually involves Candomblé/Umbanda if this is the case.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:57:35 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2018, 04:18:20 PM »
Cool Maté

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2018, 11:54:17 PM »
Cool Maté
Curious thing: no one writes or says maté here, it sounds just wrong. They just added it in English to make it look more Latino.
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2018, 12:53:48 AM »
Cool Maté
Curious thing: no one writes or says maté here, it sounds just wrong. They just added it in English to make it look more Latino.


Well unless they mean mate aka chimarrão.

;)
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2018, 01:05:17 AM »
Well unless they mean mate aka chimarrão.

 ;)
"mate" is pronounced "matchy" rather than "matay", so no accent
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2018, 09:46:18 AM »
Well unless they mean mate aka chimarrão.

 ;)
"mate" is pronounced "matchy" rather than "matay", so no accent


its only "matchy" in portuguese...and specifically your accent....go somewhere else and the 'che' sound is not as prominent....


Mate (Spanish: [ˈmate], Portuguese: [ˈmatʃi]; sometimes spelled maté in English though not in Spanish or Portuguese)

and given cool is in english....its not unreasonable to believe one might spell the second word in english too.....


3rd.....i was semi joking...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 09:46:46 AM by DeniseDenise »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2018, 09:54:13 AM »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2018, 10:57:35 AM »
its only "matchy" in portuguese...and specifically your accent....go somewhere else and the 'che' sound is not as prominent....

Mate (Spanish: [ˈmate], Portuguese: [ˈmatʃi]; sometimes spelled maté in English though not in Spanish or Portuguese)

and given cool is in english....its not unreasonable to believe one might spell the second word in english too.....

3rd.....i was semi joking...
Oh, I see. :P The "che" sound is prevalent in Brazil, there are many places (e.g. Recife, Curitiba, Maranhão) and traditional ethnicies (e.g. gaúchos, caipiras, Italo-Brazilians) that don't do it, but it's very characteristic of theirs rather than the contrary. I believe we got this kind of trait from the prevalence of immigrants from Southeastern Portugal, and then it became even more prestigious due to the cultural centrality of Rio and São Paulo. Not sure about you, I'm a supporter of the thesis that the variability of Brazilian dialects is a continuation of the diverse origins of Portuguese immigrants (see Leite de Vasconcelos) rather than particularities developed from an old koiné (see Silva Neto, Paul Teyssier).

Actually, now I thought about it and maybe "maté" could be useful for people not to pronounce it as "m8". This would be much stranger than reading "maté".  :laugh:
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2018, 11:07:04 AM »
BTW, I just pronounce "match"... Maybe that's a carioca thing, not sure.
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2018, 11:13:22 AM »


Actually, now I thought about it and maybe "maté" could be useful for people not to pronounce it as "m8". This would be much stranger than reading "maté".  :laugh:


ding ding ding!  this is why the accent is added...so the average english speaker at least knows it is a pesky foreign word...they may now mispronounce it in 30 other gringo badness ways.....but wont just say m8.....

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2018, 11:33:27 AM »
BTW, I just pronounce "match"... Maybe that's a carioca thing, not sure.

I pronounce ir errrva mat or maTi, not like ''matchy''.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2018, 11:47:54 AM »
BTW, I just pronounce "match"... Maybe that's a carioca thing, not sure.

I pronounce ir errrva mat or maTi, not like ''matchy''.

 ;D

Obrigada...
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2018, 11:54:34 AM »
BTW, I just pronounce "match"... Maybe that's a carioca thing, not sure.

I pronounce ir errrva mat or maTi, not like ''matchy''.

 ;D

Obrigada...


Probably the most distinct feature of the accent of my state and sorrounding states is the 'r' that is pronounced similar to english R.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2018, 11:57:24 AM »
BTW, I just pronounce "match"... Maybe that's a carioca thing, not sure.

I pronounce ir errrva mat or maTi, not like ''matchy''.

 ;D

Obrigada...


Probably the most distinct feature of the accent of my state and sorrounding states is the 'r' that is pronounced similar to english R.


Despite only living in one place (em Manaus...*dont roll your eyes*.)  I was with people from pretty much everywhere across Brasil, so I got to hear a lot of  the differences all the time.
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2018, 03:11:23 PM »
I bet you were a bit of a sight in Manaus. I know a blue-eyed blonde guy from nearby Manacapuru, which is probably even weirder.

Or... maybe I'm just thinking about the stereotype that pretty much everyone from Manaus is Native American or caboclo. Even the ancient Jewish community there are caboclos, as they're descendants of Sephardic men and Native American women (these amazing crossovers that could only happen in Latin America):



Probably the most distinct feature of the accent of my state and sorrounding states is the 'r' that is pronounced similar to english R.
In Rio, it's definitely the sh/zh sound (late Portuguese influence) and the guttural "r" (maybe French influence, maybe we made it up along the way), but the sh/zh gradually disappears as you get away from the metropolis. My grandmother from Barra do Piraí has an inconsistent pronounciation while my other grandma from Ilha Grande pronounce it as in the urban centre, and my best friend, from Resende, has a perfectly carioca accent/slang apart from the sh/zh.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 03:18:34 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2018, 03:33:19 PM »
I bet you were a bit of a sight in Manaus. I know a blue-eyed blonde guy from nearby Manacapuru, which is probably even weirder.

Or... maybe I'm just thinking about the stereotype that pretty much everyone from Manaus is Native American or caboclo. Even the ancient Jewish community there are caboclos, as they're descendants of Sephardic men and Native American women (these amazing crossovers that could only happen in Latin America):



Probably the most distinct feature of the accent of my state and sorrounding states is the 'r' that is pronounced similar to english R.
In Rio, it's definitely the sh/zh sound (late Portuguese influence) and the guttural "r" (maybe French influence, maybe we made it up along the way), but the sh/zh gradually disappears as you get away from the metropolis. My grandmother from Barra do Piraí has an inconsistent pronounciation while my other grandma from Ilha Grande pronounce it as in the urban centre, and my best friend, from Resende, has a perfectly carioca accent/slang apart from the sh/zh.

Idk about Manaus, but there are some towns in other northern region states that have lots of people from countryside Paraná that are polish/italian/german origin, specially in Rondonia state, but I think that there are some in Amazonas as well.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2018, 03:36:17 PM »
it was once recommended to me to fly down south...where people would believe i could be from, and pretend my parents forgot to register my birth....and thus get a birth certificate


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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2018, 04:49:08 PM »
The throngs are enough for me. Lol

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #75 on: June 22, 2018, 06:25:24 PM »
I pronounce ir errrva mat or maTi, not like ''matchy''.
You, sir, pronounce it rightly! 8)
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