Author Topic: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)  (Read 1028 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« on: September 21, 2017, 08:56:34 PM »
Alpha60 asked me to make a thread on Afro-Brazilian religions. I'll elaborate on both major traditions (Candomblé and Umbanda) and briefly sum up Quimbanda.

Candomblé (portmanteau of Kimbundo kandombe "atabaque dance" and Yoruba ilé "house") is the collective name for more traditional varieties of the syncretic faith. It varies according to the African main origin or "nation" (the most common nation being Queto, which traces its origins back to the Yoruba of the Kingdom of Dahomey, and which is the only one I'm somehow familiarised with, even though I never practiced it) and there are forms less syncretised with Roman Catholicism and more, but it's usually heavily mixed. Although there's a lot of focus in the contact with orixás (called voduns or inquices by, respectively, the Banta and Jeje nations), it's often described as Monotheistic, given they don't consider their orixás to be gods, but rather personal forces of nature, just as part of the creation as everything else. Orixás are syncretised with particular Roman Catholic saints, such as Iemanjá (protectress of the sea, thus widely venerated by fishermen and mariners, but also of women and the mind) and Oxum (orixá of wealth and love) with the Theotokos, or Oxóssi (orixá of abundance and hunt), syncretised with Ss. George and Sebastian. Some followers, after being identified as "sons" of a specific orixá by a priest (according to their own personality traits), will consecrate themselves, going through a period of fasting and restrictions and wearing a necklace with the orixá's colour and medal.

There's a complex clerical hierarchy. In Queto's case, priests are called pais-de-santo and mães-de-santo (saints' fathers and mothers, or babalorixá and ialorixá), and they oversee the terreiro (temple), but names vary among nations, and, even inside nations, there are specific priesthoods, such as ojé, which is specifically meant to conduct egungum (ancestor veneration) services. Outside the priestly categories, there's the figure of the cambono (which my great-grandfather is said to have been), who will not celebrate services, but rather oversee them without entering in trances, watching for order in the temple. Offerings to spirits are an integral part of Candomblé practice, such as animals, food, drinks and even works. These offerings, when material, are often left in public places, and may be feared by the population, even if they're made with good intentions and inoffensive elements such as flour and drinks.

Now, Umbanda (from Kimbundo mbanda "healing art") is a mix between Candomblé and Kardecism (European Spiritism), with elements  of Native American spirituality (I’m not sure whether they made their way organically or artificially), which appeared after Candomblé practitioners wouldn't be allowed in Spiritist circles, because African spirits were considered inferior, less evolved and thus misguiding by Kardecists (Kardecism and Positivism have a long history together anyway). Nowadays, it seems to breathe New Age spirituality. Orixás are not venerated alone, but as chiefs of legions, which integrate Native American and African spirits, children and exus (which is the name of a specific orixá in Candomblé, but designs feared servants of different orixás in Umbanda). The demographics are whiter, younger, southerner and richer than that of Candomblé, and it’s far less conservative, not only ritually, but also morally (even though most Candomblecists support homosexuality nowadays, for instance). Offerings are also a central part of Umbanda, but animal sacrifice is rejected.

Now the part that may interest Alpha the most: both Candomblé and Umbanda are often practiced by nominal Catholics, or even practicing Catholics looking for something they think the offerings may provide. Syncretism is usually shunned upon by pious Christians and clergy, and even feared by much of the populace, but this is not true in some areas, specially the state of Bahia, where RC priests may be passively or even actively involved with these sects (such as in the case of the infamous Fr. José Pinto, who prayed mass dressed as a pai-de-santo and invoked Iemanjá, or in the traditional party of Our Lord of the Good End, in which one of the most widely known churches in Brazil houses a Candomblé ceremony on its outside). There’s even a Candomblé monastic order in Bahia, the Order of Our Lady of the Good Death, which has its origins in black women trying to take part in religious life during the times of slavery.

Finally on Quimbanda, I don't have much to say and have only talked to one practitioner in my entire life, online, but it's described as the left-hand path of Umbanda, or IOW, black magic (apparently drawing some influence from more widely and internationally known forms of Satanism and witchcraft). It works inside Umbanda cosmology, but with spirits avoided by regular practitioners and breaking rules, in some extreme cases resorting to open devil worship and even human sacrifice. There are also some minor forms of Afro-Brazilian religions going under different names, such as Batuque and Xangô, but they're minor and I doubt at least some of them should be classified apart from Candomblé.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 09:06:34 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 09:10:56 PM »
Notes on etymology: I mistook the name of the language kandombe and mbanda come from, it's rather Kimbundu, not Kimbundo. "Quimbanda" has the same root of "Umbanda", but Kimbanda means "healer" instead of "to heal". Maybe a reflex of its more personal and esoteric characteristics over Umbanda, but it's just me guessing.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline hecma925

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 05:25:01 AM »
Interesting.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 11:54:29 PM »
Just a correction: it seems one doesn't have to be identified as a particular orixá's son or daughter to be consecrated to it. It's common that one identified as the son of an orixá is consecrated to another, I asked a Candomblé priest on why would one do it and how it relates to the nature of consecration, but he wasn't accessible.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 11:54:55 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 05:53:29 PM »
Scarry stuff
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 07:20:01 AM »
Quote
Finally on Quimbanda, I don't have much to say and have only talked to one practitioner in my entire life, online, but it's described as the left-hand path of Umbanda, or IOW, black magic (apparently drawing some influence from more widely and internationally known forms of Satanism and witchcraft). It works inside Umbanda cosmology, but with spirits avoided by regular practitioners and breaking rules, in some extreme cases resorting to open devil worship and even human sacrifice. There are also some minor forms of Afro-Brazilian religions going under different names, such as Batuque and Xangô, but they're minor and I doubt at least some of them should be classified apart from Candomblé.

I met a guy that was from a family of black magic practitioners (he is now a evangelical minister), I don't know if they followed quimbanda, or some other afro-brazilian tradition, I preffeer not to enter in details about them, but they made some dark and extremely wrong things using their magic.

Offline juliogb

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 07:32:34 AM »
Quote
Now the part that may interest Alpha the most: both Candomblé and Umbanda are often practiced by nominal Catholics, or even practicing Catholics looking for something they think the offerings may provide. Syncretism is usually shunned upon by pious Christians and clergy, and even feared by much of the populace, but this is not true in some areas, specially the state of Bahia, where RC priests may be passively or even actively involved with these sects (such as in the case of the infamous Fr. José Pinto, who prayed mass dressed as a pai-de-santo and invoked Iemanjá, or in the traditional party of Our Lord of the Good End, in which one of the most widely known churches in Brazil houses a Candomblé ceremony on its outside). There’s even a Candomblé monastic order in Bahia, the Order of Our Lady of the Good Death, which has its origins in black women trying to take part in religious life during the times of slavery.


I must add that part of afro-brazilian ritualism also synchretized with neo-pentecostalism, but instead of a terreiro, they will use a 'church', usually a rented hall, a drumset instead of the atabaques, jewish simbols instead of african ones, in both practices someone can find intense drumming, extatic dances, whirling ladies wearing white clothes, babbling uninteligible sounds and some other things.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 08:13:24 AM »
Quote
Finally on Quimbanda, I don't have much to say and have only talked to one practitioner in my entire life, online, but it's described as the left-hand path of Umbanda, or IOW, black magic (apparently drawing some influence from more widely and internationally known forms of Satanism and witchcraft). It works inside Umbanda cosmology, but with spirits avoided by regular practitioners and breaking rules, in some extreme cases resorting to open devil worship and even human sacrifice. There are also some minor forms of Afro-Brazilian religions going under different names, such as Batuque and Xangô, but they're minor and I doubt at least some of them should be classified apart from Candomblé.

I met a guy that was from a family of black magic practitioners (he is now a evangelical minister), I don't know if they followed quimbanda, or some other afro-brazilian tradition, I preffeer not to enter in details about them, but they made some dark and extremely wrong things using their magic.

Like demon possessions?
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 12:55:13 PM »
I must add that part of afro-brazilian ritualism also synchretized with neo-pentecostalism, but instead of a terreiro, they will use a 'church', usually a rented hall, a drumset instead of the atabaques, jewish simbols instead of african ones, in both practices someone can find intense drumming, extatic dances, whirling ladies wearing white clothes, babbling uninteligible sounds and some other things.
Never saw that, but I imagined this could well exist.

I met a guy that was from a family of black magic practitioners (he is now a evangelical minister), I don't know if they followed quimbanda, or some other afro-brazilian tradition, I preffeer not to enter in details about them, but they made some dark and extremely wrong things using their magic.
Candomblé might as well do harm to people, but this is not the essence of the sect and practitioners claim that, even if it works, the evil will return, falling upon whoever did the offering. The most common example would be the controversial spells to "tie" (that is, to make one fall in love, which can be harmful if the object of the offering is in a relationship or something) and "untie" (to make people fight; this is often made when someone feels their partner is cheating, but can be made toward anyone). Umbanda is far more negative about tying and untying, seemingly understanding that these spells are made with the help of less evolved spirits.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:56:05 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 02:39:53 PM »
I suppose assuming it's real it's also kind of date rape.
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 02:46:00 PM »
Quote
Never saw that, but I imagined this could well exist.

There are lots of videos in youtube comparing practices in 'terreiros' and some neopentecostal churches, maybe if you put in the search some words like 'culto umbanda crente gospel reteté cair no espirito neopentecostal terreiro' you'll find some examples.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 04:47:00 PM »
I must add that part of afro-brazilian ritualism also synchretized with neo-pentecostalism, but instead of a terreiro, they will use a 'church', usually a rented hall, a drumset instead of the atabaques, jewish simbols instead of african ones, in both practices someone can find intense drumming, extatic dances, whirling ladies wearing white clothes, babbling uninteligible sounds and some other things.
Wait, aren't all Pentecostals like this? :D

On the other hand, it shouldn't be surprising that Brazilians would do yet another syncretic shuffle to see what happens after Protestantism became mainstream over there.
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 04:59:49 PM »
Interesting stuff guys. I wonder if similar syncretism has emerged among Pentecostals in Chinese communities. (My mom's Chinese-American AOG church was rather sober, as far as I could tell- I never saw speaking in tongues or anything like that happen).
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 05:00:33 PM by Iconodule »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 11:00:39 PM »
I suppose assuming it's real it's also kind of date rape.
I'm pretty sure it can. I could use the Iberian/Brazilian saying "I don't believe witches, but they do exist" here, but I'm convinced it does work from a large number of first-hand stories of apparitions, possessions, accurate prophecy/clairvoyance and very strange coincidences implying magic (that is, supernatural manipulation of reality). Happily, I never witnessed really weird things (little wax feet and candles left outside a church is disturbing, for example, but not supernaturally weird), but my girlfriend, many friends, and even some extended family have.

I don't really have a personal history with Afro-Brazilian religions. I had a lot of interest about it in my late teenage years, but I was too specific on where should I go first (I wanted to find some pure form of Candomblé Queto), and thank God there was no one to guide me, so I'd just read a lot about it and considered visits to temples that never happened.

By the way, tomorrow is Ss. Cosmas and Damian day in the Tridentine rite, and thus anyone in Rio (apart from Protestants), specially children, will engage in the tradition of sharing candy with each other, which comes from Afro-Brazilian religions (Candomblé through Umbanda, I'd guess). Cosmas and Damian are syncretised with the ibejis, twin children orixás, so in this day Afro-Brazilian sects would ritually give food for children. In Rio, the ritual got secularised and now people will just give sweets for children and share them with each other, like in Halloween.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:04:42 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 11:33:27 PM »
Has there ever been any mass hysteria about poisoned candy? Here in the US that happens a lot with Halloween, paranoid parents afraid for their kids out trick or treating.

I have no idea what kind of fits they'd have if actual witches were handing the candy out.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2017, 11:40:29 PM »
Mass hysteria, no, but Evangelicals go crazy about how Satanic and idolater it is to share candy in bags with saints, and they can even do it in solely anti-Catholic grounds without even mentioning the orixá cult!  :laugh:

« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:41:59 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2017, 07:20:56 AM »
Quote
I'm pretty sure it can. I could use the Iberian/Brazilian saying "I don't believe witches, but they do exist" here, but I'm convinced it does work from a large number of first-hand stories of apparitions, possessions, accurate prophecy/clairvoyance and very strange coincidences implying magic (that is, supernatural manipulation of reality). Happily, I never witnessed really weird things (little wax feet and candles left outside a church is disturbing, for example, but not supernaturally weird), but my girlfriend, many friends, and even some extended family have.

I saw beheaded chickens and mutilated birds layed in clay dishes sometimes, it is preety scary,and people often cross themselves when passing near that kind of offering.

Quote
Wait, aren't all Pentecostals like this? :D

On the other hand, it shouldn't be surprising that Brazilians would do yet another syncretic shuffle to see what happens after Protestantism became mainstream over there.

I don't knot, I only know brazilian pentecostalism and a little bit of north-american one, what I can say is that some pentecostal communities inherited a lot of rituals and spiritualty from afro-brazilian religions.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2017, 09:46:38 AM »
Before he went full misanthropic atheist, Arturo Vasquez's blog had a fascinating series of articles, "Protestantism in a Hot Climate," that examined such syncretic, pagan protestant sects, both in Latin America and New Orleans. Unfortunately they're no longer available.
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2017, 09:51:57 AM »
Quote
I'm pretty sure it can. I could use the Iberian/Brazilian saying "I don't believe witches, but they do exist" here, but I'm convinced it does work from a large number of first-hand stories of apparitions, possessions, accurate prophecy/clairvoyance and very strange coincidences implying magic (that is, supernatural manipulation of reality). Happily, I never witnessed really weird things (little wax feet and candles left outside a church is disturbing, for example, but not supernaturally weird), but my girlfriend, many friends, and even some extended family have.

I saw beheaded chickens and mutilated birds layed in clay dishes sometimes, it is preety scary,and people often cross themselves when passing near that kind of offering.




I used to see these all the time...since out in the countryside, there are a lot of crossroads to choose from for such things (these rituals are often done at crossroads), and depending on the evening, you can actually see the practitioners still there sometimes...

going around them on foot was one of my main occupations while walking places....
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2017, 01:38:25 PM »
Quote
I'm pretty sure it can. I could use the Iberian/Brazilian saying "I don't believe witches, but they do exist" here, but I'm convinced it does work from a large number of first-hand stories of apparitions, possessions, accurate prophecy/clairvoyance and very strange coincidences implying magic (that is, supernatural manipulation of reality). Happily, I never witnessed really weird things (little wax feet and candles left outside a church is disturbing, for example, but not supernaturally weird), but my girlfriend, many friends, and even some extended family have.

I saw beheaded chickens and mutilated birds layed in clay dishes sometimes, it is preety scary,and people often cross themselves when passing near that kind of offering.




I used to see these all the time...since out in the countryside, there are a lot of crossroads to choose from for such things (these rituals are often done at crossroads), and depending on the evening, you can actually see the practitioners still there sometimes...

going around them on foot was one of my main occupations while walking places....


Really? Where are you from?

Yeah, crossroads and woods, there is a natural reserve in my town that is a hot spot for animal sacrifice and offerings to orixás, volunteers that clean the reserve are often afraid of removing the offerings, some people don't touch it at all.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2017, 02:20:47 PM »
Quote
I'm pretty sure it can. I could use the Iberian/Brazilian saying "I don't believe witches, but they do exist" here, but I'm convinced it does work from a large number of first-hand stories of apparitions, possessions, accurate prophecy/clairvoyance and very strange coincidences implying magic (that is, supernatural manipulation of reality). Happily, I never witnessed really weird things (little wax feet and candles left outside a church is disturbing, for example, but not supernaturally weird), but my girlfriend, many friends, and even some extended family have.

I saw beheaded chickens and mutilated birds layed in clay dishes sometimes, it is preety scary,and people often cross themselves when passing near that kind of offering.




I used to see these all the time...since out in the countryside, there are a lot of crossroads to choose from for such things (these rituals are often done at crossroads), and depending on the evening, you can actually see the practitioners still there sometimes...

going around them on foot was one of my main occupations while walking places....


Really? Where are you from?

Yeah, crossroads and woods, there is a natural reserve in my town that is a hot spot for animal sacrifice and offerings to orixás, volunteers that clean the reserve are often afraid of removing the offerings, some people don't touch it at all.


I am -from- Los Angeles....

but the time I was talking about I lived about 45 min north of Manaus.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2017, 04:45:31 PM »
Before he went full misanthropic atheist, Arturo Vasquez's blog had a fascinating series of articles, "Protestantism in a Hot Climate," that examined such syncretic, pagan protestant sects, both in Latin America and New Orleans. Unfortunately they're no longer available.
That must be an interesting read. It's curious that all parts of Latin America and Louisiana developed so many forms of African spirituality inside the bosom of Roman Catholic hierarchy while Protestantism, so loose, seemingly didn't develop any widespread explicitly African sect.

Maybe this could be just accidental and might be explained by something I once heard in a lecture: slaves in most Latin America were sold collectively, while in the British Colonies/US, they were split and sold hand to hand individually. Taking this as true, it's easy to see how there could be so many people across Brazil from the same African nation, pantheon and language, bringing and developing their former cults and cultures here, while even though there's a particular African American culture in the US, it seems to be almost completely reworked from scratch. Even if one can see hints of African spirituality in African American Christianity, and some words of African origins crept into AAVE and presumably Gullah, it's still far, far less African than what was preserved in Brazil, Haiti, Cuba, even Louisiana. I'm all working with hypotheses here, though, don't quote me on that.


P.S.: Now googling it further, there actually seems to be traditional and explicit African/Protestant mixes out there: Shango Baptists in Trinidad and Tobago.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 04:50:58 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2017, 05:00:21 PM »
Mass hysteria, no, but Evangelicals go crazy about how Satanic and idolater it is to share candy in bags with saints, and they can even do it in solely anti-Catholic grounds without even mentioning the orixá cult!  :laugh:


Lol
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2017, 07:21:39 AM »
Before he went full misanthropic atheist, Arturo Vasquez's blog had a fascinating series of articles, "Protestantism in a Hot Climate," that examined such syncretic, pagan protestant sects, both in Latin America and New Orleans. Unfortunately they're no longer available.
That must be an interesting read. It's curious that all parts of Latin America and Louisiana developed so many forms of African spirituality inside the bosom of Roman Catholic hierarchy while Protestantism, so loose, seemingly didn't develop any widespread explicitly African sect.

Maybe this could be just accidental and might be explained by something I once heard in a lecture: slaves in most Latin America were sold collectively, while in the British Colonies/US, they were split and sold hand to hand individually. Taking this as true, it's easy to see how there could be so many people across Brazil from the same African nation, pantheon and language, bringing and developing their former cults and cultures here, while even though there's a particular African American culture in the US, it seems to be almost completely reworked from scratch. Even if one can see hints of African spirituality in African American Christianity, and some words of African origins crept into AAVE and presumably Gullah, it's still far, far less African than what was preserved in Brazil, Haiti, Cuba, even Louisiana. I'm all working with hypotheses here, though, don't quote me on that.


P.S.: Now googling it further, there actually seems to be traditional and explicit African/Protestant mixes out there: Shango Baptists in Trinidad and Tobago.

Well, there is also rastafarianism that emerge in a country with protestant majority, Jamaica, one of it's founders was a anglican minister if I am not mistaken, and one of its revered figures, Marcus Garvey, was a methodist.


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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2017, 05:40:31 PM »
Before he went full misanthropic atheist, Arturo Vasquez's blog had a fascinating series of articles, "Protestantism in a Hot Climate," that examined such syncretic, pagan protestant sects, both in Latin America and New Orleans. Unfortunately they're no longer available.
That must be an interesting read. It's curious that all parts of Latin America and Louisiana developed so many forms of African spirituality inside the bosom of Roman Catholic hierarchy while Protestantism, so loose, seemingly didn't develop any widespread explicitly African sect.

Maybe this could be just accidental and might be explained by something I once heard in a lecture: slaves in most Latin America were sold collectively, while in the British Colonies/US, they were split and sold hand to hand individually. Taking this as true, it's easy to see how there could be so many people across Brazil from the same African nation, pantheon and language, bringing and developing their former cults and cultures here, while even though there's a particular African American culture in the US, it seems to be almost completely reworked from scratch. Even if one can see hints of African spirituality in African American Christianity, and some words of African origins crept into AAVE and presumably Gullah, it's still far, far less African than what was preserved in Brazil, Haiti, Cuba, even Louisiana. I'm all working with hypotheses here, though, don't quote me on that.


P.S.: Now googling it further, there actually seems to be traditional and explicit African/Protestant mixes out there: Shango Baptists in Trinidad and Tobago.

Well, there is also rastafarianism that emerge in a country with protestant majority, Jamaica, one of it's founders was a anglican minister if I am not mistaken, and one of its revered figures, Marcus Garvey, was a methodist.

I seem to recall there is/was a fair smattering of psedo-Ethiopian churches around Chicago. Then there's the "African Orthodox Church" that canonized John Coltrane.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:42:29 PM by Volnutt »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2017, 09:16:35 PM »
Well, there is also rastafarianism that emerge in a country with protestant majority, Jamaica, one of it's founders was a anglican minister if I am not mistaken, and one of its revered figures, Marcus Garvey, was a methodist.
Oh, there's Rastafarianism too among syncretic Christian/African religions. I'm not aware, however, of strong animistic influences on it.
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2017, 02:49:16 PM »
I didn't get the impression of much or any spiritualism in Rastafari.
Quote
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2017, 07:25:05 AM »
I remember the Vale do Amanhecer cult in mid-west Brazil, a weird mix of umbanda, kardecism, Santo Daime(the ayahuasca religion) and other religions.


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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2017, 07:29:31 AM »
Subscribed. One of the best threads in OC.net.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 07:56:37 AM »
Are any of these cults big on St. Expeditus?
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2017, 08:57:03 AM »
Are any of these cults big on St. Expeditus?


St. Expeditus is syncretized with Orishá Logunedé in Candomblé.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2017, 08:59:28 AM »
Do they (the black magic side, that is) use him to place curses like on Reunion Island?
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2017, 10:19:44 AM »
Do they (the black magic side, that is) use him to place curses like on Reunion Island?

I don't think so, the black magic side use other entities I think, that have no paralel with saints as far as I know. They use entities called exús(pronounced 'eshoos') and pombagiras if I am not mistaken, those are the entities that can harm people.

There is some representations of those 'exus' that are similar to the mexican Santa Muerte.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 10:29:56 AM by juliogb »

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2017, 12:17:39 PM »
I don't think so, the black magic side use other entities I think, that have no paralel with saints as far as I know. They use entities called exús(pronounced 'eshoos') and pombagiras if I am not mistaken, those are the entities that can harm people.

There is some representations of those 'exus' that are similar to the mexican Santa Muerte.
I'm not sure if exus/pombagiras are the only ones which can harm people in Umbanda (I'd add quiumbas, of which I'll talk later), but I agree that orixás are probably not called for harm, and that exus in Umbanda are indeed feared. In Candomblé they're just a singular orixá, one of the most powerful ones, I actually have a friend in university who is consecrated to him, but despite being a very open person and proud about his faith, he refuses to talk about it because his particular sect is very secretive. I know it's Exu because I recognised the pattern of his necklace, asked him and he confirmed.

Exu Rei das Sete Encruzilhadas ("King of the Seven Crossroads"), for instance, is not feared, but rather reverenced as a protector spirit, and not part of any legion, but having a legion of his own. Exu Caveira ("Skull"), on the other hand, acts in the legion of Omolu (the feared orixá of health and disease, who is still object of much sacrifice in Africa in times of epidemics), lives in graveyards and has the function of dissociating the "carnal memory" of the dead and reminding the living of their mortality. This is the one who looks like Santa Muerte (maybe there are others).

Now about quiumbas: these are evil spirits, also called pagãos ("Pagans"). They are egum (that is, spirits of dead people), but just like they were bad people in earth, they're bad entities in the spiritual realm. Quiumbas are strongly feared in Candomblé and Umbanda, who believe they may pretend to be much superior spirits, fool the practitioners and do harm. Quimbanda, however, may work with them.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 12:19:20 PM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2017, 01:47:08 AM »
For the day of Our Lady of Aparecida, I bring you the most cringeworthy scene of Brazilian syncretism: a Candomblé priest and a vagante pseudo-Orthodox patriarch (in turn ordained by a fake Old Calendarist bishop) celebrating a joint service with a statue of Aparecida: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epkG-lPaafI
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2017, 01:52:20 AM »
This was in the suggested vids on the sidebar. I don't understand what is going on, but maybe that's a good thing?

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2017, 02:01:55 AM »
This is Fr. José Pinto, an actual Roman Catholic priest, getting possessed by a couple of spirits, including a pombagira (Umbanda class of spirits represented as promiscuous women) during an actual Roman Catholic mass. His then bishop (Abp. Geraldo Agnelo) was already a cardinal-priest at this time. At least they all look happy.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 02:09:00 AM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2017, 07:20:54 PM »
Is this the Super Novus Ordo cum Samba liturgy of the Roman Church?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 07:22:11 PM by Sharbel »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2017, 11:17:19 PM »
Is this the Super Novus Ordo cum Samba liturgy of the Roman Church?
Yeah, also known as the Macumbensis use.  :P
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2017, 06:20:25 AM »
This is Fr. José Pinto, an actual Roman Catholic priest, getting possessed by a couple of spirits, including a pombagira (Umbanda class of spirits represented as promiscuous women) during an actual Roman Catholic mass. His then bishop (Abp. Geraldo Agnelo) was already a cardinal-priest at this time. At least they all look happy.


Vatican II and Liberation Theology ruined roman catholicism in Brazil, no wonder why the number of catholic decrease every year.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2017, 06:23:51 AM »
Vatican II and Liberation Theology ruined roman catholicism in Brazil, no wonder why the number of catholic decrease every year.
We already had occasional married priests and ad populum mass in Portuguese before CV II, which despite not wrong in itself, shows a history of disobedience, which resulted in the creation of the BCAC in 1945. CV II and liberation theology, however, were violent final blows. This is probably why there's a proportionally large group hungry for Orthodoxy or the Tridentine rite, too. As a reaction.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 06:24:54 AM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2017, 06:32:11 AM »
Vatican II and Liberation Theology ruined roman catholicism in Brazil, no wonder why the number of catholic decrease every year.
We already had occasional married priests and ad populum mass in Portuguese before CV II, which despite not wrong in itself, shows a history of disobedience, which resulted in the creation of the BCAC in 1945. CV II and liberation theology, however, were violent final blows. This is probably why there's a proportionally large group hungry for Orthodoxy or the Tridentine rite, too. As a reaction.

I forgot extreme liturgical abuses within the carismatic movement and other weird movements like the judaizer 'neocathecumenal way'.

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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2017, 10:26:07 AM »
other weird movements like the judaizer 'neocathecumenal way'.
Wow, how's that?
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2017, 10:28:20 AM »
other weird movements like the judaizer 'neocathecumenal way'.
Wow, how's that?
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Re: Afro-Brazilian religions (thread requested by Alpha60)
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2017, 11:19:31 AM »
other weird movements like the judaizer 'neocathecumenal way'.
Wow, how's that?


It is a movement inside the roman catholic church, some sort of ''itinerary of christian initiation''(wikipedia) founded by some spanish missionaries Kiko Argüello and Cármen Hernandez in the 60s.

One of their most distinct marks is the Eucharist offered in a square shaped table with all people around it, in wich they participate in the eucharist then dance some sort of hava nagila circle dance.