Topic: Modern Teens: Dating, Drinking, & Sexy Timing

[Asteriktos]

Not drinking or driving, teens increasingly put off traditional markers of adulthood

They are in good company, according to a new study showing that teenagers are increasingly delaying activities that had long been seen as rites of passage into adulthood. The study, published Tuesday in the journal Child Development, found that the percentage of adolescents in the U.S. who have a driver’s license, who have tried alcohol, who date, and who work for pay has plummeted since 1976, with the most precipitous decreases in the past decade. The declines appeared across race, geographic and socioeconomic lines, and in rural, urban and suburban areas...

To be sure, more than half of teens still engage in these activities, but the majorities have slimmed considerably. Between 1976 and 1979, 86 percent of high school seniors had gone on a date; between 2010 and 2015 only 63 percent had, the study found. During the same period, the portion who had ever earned money from working plunged from 76 to 55 percent. And the portion who had tried alcohol plummeted from 93 percent between 1976 and 1979 to 67 percent between 2010 and 2016.

Teens have also reported a steady decline in sexual activity in recent decades, as the portion of high school students who have had sex fell from 54 percent in 1991 to 41 percent in 2015...

[Iconodule]

I read somewhere about a similar, though more drastic, development in Japan.

[Alpo]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

[WPM]

Heh, . . . good luck with that.

[Cyrillic]

I read somewhere about a similar, though more drastic, development in Japan.

'A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

[William T]

a) social psychologists are annoying

b) teenagers are annoying..whether they are drinking, sober, religious, atheist, chaste, or promiscuous whatever they choose to do is going to be wrong

c) social psychologists talking about teenagers is bound to annoy

[William T]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

usually when you read a report given by an overly concerned sociologist ringing alarms on how your kids are being raised you are supposed to read it that kids are turning into mindless vegetables.  In this case vegetables don't drink or have sex and that probably shouldn't be compared to human virtues of chastity or temperance

[Iconodule]

I read somewhere about a similar, though more drastic, development in Japan.

'A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

I see, so actually not that drastic at all.

[Cyrillic]

I read somewhere about a similar, though more drastic, development in Japan.

'A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

I see, so actually not that drastic at all.

Not sure if this is sarcasm.

[Alpo]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

usually when you read a report given by an overly concerned sociologist ringing alarms on how your kids are being raised you are supposed to read it that kids are turning into mindless vegetables.  In this case vegetables don't drink or have sex and that probably shouldn't be compared to human virtues of chastity or temperance

Uhm...what?

[William T]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

usually when you read a report given by an overly concerned sociologist ringing alarms on how your kids are being raised you are supposed to read it that kids are turning into mindless vegetables.  In this case vegetables don't drink or have sex and that probably shouldn't be compared to human virtues of chastity or temperance

Uhm...what?

It sounds like an alarmist article.  She could have said teens were binge drinking, overworking, driving recklessly, being too rebellious, and having massive orgiastic sex it probably would have had the same kind of tone.


the name of her book is "iGen: Why Today’s Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy - and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood.”"

So she obviously has bad conclusion about trends, and probably a self fulling prophecy kind of methodology (evo explanations tend towards such things).

[Mor Ephrem]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

I'm not sure that's the takeaway. 

[Ainnir]

I skimmed it once.  My reading of it is that modern teens are a) not expected to grow up as quickly and b) more anxious about the future and therefore Y) do not drive, have sex, or engage in underage consumption and Z) are not ready for adulthood.

The article doesn't address: why teens are unprepared for adulthood, what being prepared for adulthood means, how any of the listed activities actually affect such preparation or adulthood, or the sometimes drastic disparity between the age of majority and the age of expected maturity.

But I may have missed something.  /shrug

[Rohzek]

The article seems about right. I've always wondered about the fixation on sex that older people have when it comes to teenage sex, especially since our generation is way more responsible in that category than they are.

As for growing up, yeah more people seem unable to grow up. I know many kids in college who have a car, but it is still in their parents' name. Once I turned 18, the car was transferred to my name. That way, if I got in a wreck, only I would be sued. I have to question the reasoning of the article, however. Just because more people are going to college and graduate school, it does not therefore necessitate a prolonged dependency. Are graduate or college students incapable of being fully responsible? Sure, they might have to take out more debt, but that is hardly a reason to put off paying your own insurance, truly owning things in your own name, etc. I think the problem is that society and the parents think the world is more dangerous than ever, which is completely opposite of the truth. When children and youth aren't expected to grow up, it is not at all surprising to find that they don't grow up at all. The mom at the end of the article is a textbook example of this phenomenon. I am willing to bet that if she saw a child unaccompanied riding a bike 2 blocks from his or her house, she'd be the one to call Child Protective Services to report their parents for child abuse. There is an increasing lack of grit in bourgeoisie society, and it is saddening.

[RobS]

I read somewhere about a similar, though more drastic, development in Japan.

'A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way.'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

I see, so actually not that drastic at all.

Not sure if this is sarcasm.

Yeah I'm confused by what Icondule said too.

[augustin717]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

I'm not sure that's the takeaway.

best sex happens when there is a diety strongly disapproving  . I think there are studies out there showing that Christians have better sex.

[CarolS]

Trading one addiction for another. More video gaming = less sex, drugs, rock and roll. And online pornography is cheaper and less work for teens than paying for dinner and a movie just to play twister in the back seat of a car. I am doubtful than an increase of virtue has any part.

[Mor Ephrem]

Trading one addiction for another. More video gaming = less sex, drugs, rock and roll. And online pornography is cheaper and less work for teens than paying for dinner and a movie just to play twister in the back seat of a car. I am doubtful than an increase of virtue has any part.

+1

[RobS]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

I'm not sure that's the takeaway.

best sex happens when there is a diety strongly disapproving  . I think there are studies out there showing that Christians have better sex.

Lol OC.net's patron saint JamesR said the same thing. I agree.

[Porter ODoran]

Loathsome when society's vultures, I mean experts, blame teenagers or any other group for changes society imposes on them. And they always do.

[RobS]

Trading one addiction for another. More video gaming = less sex, drugs, rock and roll. And online pornography is cheaper and less work for teens than paying for dinner and a movie just to play twister in the back seat of a car. I am doubtful than an increase of virtue has any part.

So less time spent doing vices and unwanted teen pregnancies. Shouldn't conservatives be cheering?

Lemme guess something something traditional family values yadda yadda.

[William T]

Trading one addiction for another. More video gaming = less sex, drugs, rock and roll. And online pornography is cheaper and less work for teens than paying for dinner and a movie just to play twister in the back seat of a car. I am doubtful than an increase of virtue has any part.

So less time spent doing vices and unwanted teen pregnancies. Shouldn't conservatives be cheering?

Lemme guess something something traditional family values yadda yadda.

I'm skeptical of the article, but you're missing the point of the article, probably missing the point of commentantors on this thread and "vices", and then simplifying it by throwing into some political sloganing.

The author of the book in question is saying that teenagers are unprepared for adulthood...the end result of having or not having sex is superficial.  It's the backing philosophies and drives that the sociologist is looking at, and I believe other people in this thread that you are criticizing are looking at as well (but they can speak for themselves about that). 

Ex: If I'm not having sex because I'm hooked on heroin, that doesn't really mean anything good.  And again, if you are spending time raising your child, you don't want them wasting time with vices and making poor decisions...this should be painfully obvious, and even if it's not I don't know why you would actively promote doing such a thing, unless you are thinking about this in polemical terms.  I'm pretty sure if I said it was actively OK yo treat race "X" as inferior you would blow a gasket.

[RobS]

I'm skeptical of the article, but you're missing the point of the article, probably missing the point of commentantors on this thread and "vices", and then simplifying it by throwing into some political sloganing.

I was responding directly to CarolS' post, the issue for me was the nihilism in it, and no I haven't read the article yet (I'll get around to it later).

[William T]

I'm skeptical of the article, but you're missing the point of the article, probably missing the point of commentantors on this thread and "vices", and then simplifying it by throwing into some political sloganing.

I was responding directly to CarolS' post, the issue for me was the nihilism in it, and no I haven't read the article yet (I'll get around to it later).

If I am reading these people correctly she seems to be saying the same thing Twenge is saying:  that is the lack of sex isn't a virtue but traded off with something else that's bad.  And even here, the underlying thesis and points made aren't really about sex, but the attitudes of teenages, and the attitudes towards sex is a consequence I don't see how that's nihilism. 

Again example:  Maybe teenagers are committing less murders, but this is because they are hooked on video games and drugs.  If that's the case, arguably the kids soul is no better off than when they were committing murders...it's just a different set of parameters.  I'm not saying I agree with it, I am saying that I think you and Alpo are misreading the points.

[Alpo]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

I'm not sure that's the takeaway. 

Admittedly I didn't read the article but I believe having less or not at all pre-marital sex or not doing underage drinking is a Christian choice no matter the persons religious affiliation or whatnot. Why it wouldn't be?

[Mor Ephrem]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

I'm not sure that's the takeaway. 

Admitedly I didn't read the article but I believe having less or not at all pre-marital sex or not doing underage drinking is a Christian choice no matter the persons religious affiliation or whatnot. Why it wouldn't be?

I didn't read the article in the OP either, but I did read another article recently about the decrease in premarital sex being linked to a decrease in dating, which in its turn is due to the ubiquitous use of smartphones and other technologies which have increasingly become our default method for interacting with people.  Obviously, in the space of a short post, this is a gross reduction of the argument, but my takeaway was that people can make externally "Christian choices" without any Christianity or morality involved at all.  It can be totally accidental, and even motivated by non-Christian ideas. 

In light of that, I feel like it's a mistake to claim that secular society is empowering anyone to make Christian life choices.  I don't think society has become more Christian because it is more externally chaste in one or two ways.  If anything, I'd rather go back to the days of more abundant fornication because at least people were less stupid back then.

[Rohzek]

Trading one addiction for another. More video gaming = less sex, drugs, rock and roll. And online pornography is cheaper and less work for teens than paying for dinner and a movie just to play twister in the back seat of a car. I am doubtful than an increase of virtue has any part.

Perhaps there is no increase in virtue among people today compared to the past. What is undeniable, however, is that the consequences of online pornography use or video gaming are far less serious than getting someone one barely knows pregnant or overdosing on heroin. I'd call that an improvement any day.

[Asteriktos]

If anything, I'd rather go back to the days of more abundant fornication because at least people were less stupid back then.

That's dumb...

[augustin717]

Trading one addiction for another. More video gaming = less sex, drugs, rock and roll. And online pornography is cheaper and less work for teens than paying for dinner and a movie just to play twister in the back seat of a car. I am doubtful than an increase of virtue has any part.

Perhaps there is no increase in virtue among people today compared to the past. What is undeniable, however, is that the consequences of online pornography use or video gaming are far less serious than getting someone one barely knows pregnant or overdosing on heroin. I'd call that an improvement any day.

yeah. If the reactionary mind sees the world as a stage upon which they're gonna perform  the individual virtue shtick/drama /tragedy /tragicomedy. It's like the homeric heroes .

[Mor Ephrem]

If anything, I'd rather go back to the days of more abundant fornication because at least people were less stupid back then.

That's dumb...

[Sharbel]

I skimmed it once.  My reading of it is that modern teens are a) not expected to grow up as quickly and b) more anxious about the future and therefore Y) do not drive, have sex, or engage in underage consumption and Z) are not ready for adulthood.

The article doesn't address: why teens are unprepared for adulthood, what being prepared for adulthood means, how any of the listed activities actually affect such preparation or adulthood, or the sometimes drastic disparity between the age of majority and the age of expected maturity.

But I may have missed something.  /shrug

+1

[mikeforjesus]

I think that is great news but people try to make them feel bad they are more antisocial and less independent and out in the world. Do both. Preserving your chastity is very healthy.
I worry people are doing it just out of fear and when the fear goes they will go back to the world
If any have fallen we have to lift them up too

[xOrthodox4Christx]

Adulthood means being responsible, having standards and being productive. All of those concepts are entirely anathema to the modern millennial. Trust me, I am one. They're in the leftist, secular mindset that says anything is permissible, and doing whatever you want leads to no consequences and selfishness is the greatest virtue, next to virtue signaling vis-a-vis those oppressed minority token groups we pull out for dramatic effect.

That's all aside from the whole smartphone thing. There isn't a girl my age anywhere who isn't either a) on her smartphone or b) have earbuds on, 24 hours a day and seven days a week.

Seriously.

[Iconodule]

Adulthood means being responsible, having standards and being productive. All of those concepts are entirely anathema to the modern millennial. Trust me, I am one. They're in the leftist, secular mindset that says anything is permissible, and doing whatever you want leads to no consequences and selfishness is the greatest virtue, next to virtue signaling vis-a-vis those oppressed minority token groups we pull out for dramatic effect.

I love how these "oppressed minority token groups" have no actual autonomous existence for you.

That's all aside from the whole smartphone thing. There isn't a girl my age anywhere who isn't either a) on her smartphone or b) have earbuds on, 24 hours a day and seven days a week.

Seriously.

It's the world your parents created. But yes, from the way you talk, it sounds like you're part of the problem too.

[Porter ODoran]

Kind of ironic that secular society empowers teens for Christian life choices.

I'm not sure that's the takeaway.

best sex happens when there is a diety strongly disapproving  . I think there are studies out there showing that Christians have better sex.

Lol OC.net's patron saint JamesR said the same thing. I agree.

You boys are wonderful theorists.

[Luke]

Every generation has their rowdy crowd:  "Rednecks, white socks, and Blue Ribbon beer."

[xOrthodox4Christx]

Adulthood means being responsible, having standards and being productive. All of those concepts are entirely anathema to the modern millennial. Trust me, I am one. They're in the leftist, secular mindset that says anything is permissible, and doing whatever you want leads to no consequences and selfishness is the greatest virtue, next to virtue signaling vis-a-vis those oppressed minority token groups we pull out for dramatic effect.

I love how these "oppressed minority token groups" have no actual autonomous existence for you.

That's all aside from the whole smartphone thing. There isn't a girl my age anywhere who isn't either a) on her smartphone or b) have earbuds on, 24 hours a day and seven days a week.

Seriously.

It's the world your parents created. But yes, from the way you talk, it sounds like you're part of the problem too.

I'm happy to see that you're supportive.

[Arachne]

There isn't a girl my age anywhere who isn't either a) on her smartphone or b) have earbuds on, 24 hours a day and seven days a week.

Seriously.

I'll take your word for the 24/7 bit. Still, a lot of women of various ages go about with headphones on, even without music actually playing, in an effort to avoid being accosted by entitled jerks. Seriously.

[The young fogey]

Thanks for posting this. Much food for thought. Interesting that in a way natural virtue wins despite the media pushing adult vices onto teens, but not good of course if otherwise the teens aren't really growing up. Some of the article seems to be boomers romanticizing their own bad behavior (doesn't every older generation?). Hooray for natural virtue including healthy nerds (the boy with friends who talk about books or sci-fi) but boo to the unnatural prolongation of childhood. That said, a solution is something the writer would condemn as immature: to bring back extended families in which it was traditional for singles to keep living at home (related: bring back courtship where the families approve a union; scrap dating as we know it, which has brought us disease, divorce, abortion, and hearts broken many times).

Still, a lot of women of various ages go about with headphones on, even without music actually playing, in an effort to avoid being accosted by entitled jerks. Seriously.

Sin distorts women's God-given desire for strong "entitled" men. The quotation really says headphones are good for screening out men a woman thinks (and sometimes she's right) are beneath her (low status and maybe not handsome; power turns women on more than looks even though looks matter). Seriously. The manosphere is reality; Christians have to deal with it as kindly as possible.

[Iconodule]

Hear that, lads? Pop on a fedora and spectacles and watch the headphones (and other attire) come off!

[Arachne]

Still, a lot of women of various ages go about with headphones on, even without music actually playing, in an effort to avoid being accosted by entitled jerks. Seriously.

Sin distorts women's God-given desire for strong "entitled" men. The quotation really says headphones are good for screening out men a woman thinks (and sometimes she's right) are beneath her (low status and maybe not handsome; power turns women on more than looks even though looks matter). Seriously. The manosphere is reality; Christians have to deal with it as kindly as possible.

You couldn't be misinterpreting this more if you tried.

No, headphones are an outward sign of unavailability that aims to keep the wearer uninterrupted in whatever they are doing. The difference is that good men will take the hint and not interrupt, while jerks are likely to ignore it and proposition anyway.

The manosphere is reality, and men need to start policing their own. Starting with understanding that women do not exist to decorate their men's world, and can be out and about and take space in the world doing their own thing, which does not include or require male presence or approval.

[Iconodule]

It's pretty funny when someone laments the prolongation of childhood yet promotes the manosphere, more properly termed the boyosphere.

[RobS]

It's pretty funny when someone laments the prolongation of childhood yet promotes the manosphere, more properly termed the boyosphere.

The only thing that interests me about the "boyosphere" (nice!) is its behaviorist approach to sexuality. Other than that its ideology is filled with so many bitter insecure men who need a place to vent their deep seated inadequacies and totally uninterested in maturing. I can imagine Nietzsche being perfectly at home in such a place.

[Volnutt]

It's pretty funny when someone laments the prolongation of childhood yet promotes the manosphere, more properly termed the boyosphere.

The only thing that interests me about the "boyosphere" (nice!) is its behaviorist approach to sexuality. Other than that its ideology is filled with so many bitter insecure men who need a place to vent their deep seated inadequacies and totally uninterested in maturing. I can imagine Nietzsche being perfectly at home in such a place.

Increasingly, this also includes their bitterness towards certain people of differing skin cell arrangement...

[Volnutt]

It's pretty funny when someone laments the prolongation of childhood yet promotes the manosphere, more properly termed the boyosphere.

"Boyosphere" makes me think of a bunch guys trying to act as stereotypically Irish as humanly possible lol.