Author Topic: Non Jews before Jesus.  (Read 548 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline youssef

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 303
Non Jews before Jesus.
« on: September 15, 2017, 12:38:17 AM »
What happen to all the non jews before Jesus? Did they stay in hell after resurection and just the Jews who are waiting Jesus did get saved.

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,021
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 12:58:41 AM »
Why do you think they were in hell?

I thought they were in the bosom of Abraham
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline youssef

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 303
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 01:36:26 AM »
But the non Jews was not waiting for Jesus. We say when Jesus died he go to hell and give a hope of life for people who are waiting him

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,116
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 07:29:10 AM »
There are differing opinions on this but a number of Christian sources state that Christ rescued everyone in hell when he despoiled it. See Metropolitan Hilarion's book, Christ the Conqueror of Hell.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline William T

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,420
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 12:31:26 PM »
Here is an article that may help shed light on the thoughts of non Jews:

http://saintandrewgoc.org/home/2015/4/14/christ-the-conqueror-of-hell
Holy Toledo!

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,181
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 12:44:33 PM »
Jews qua Jews is not a qualification for salvation. So I suppose you are talking about pious Jews, and, yes, there were also pious pagans.

But I tend to agree with the posters who say Hades was categorically despoiled. There is no more underworld. Post Christ, all men have eternal life or eternal life-in-death.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline RobS

  • Formerly "nothing"
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,025
  • St. Gregory Palamas, pray for me!
  • Jurisdiction: The thrilling romance of Holy Orthodoxy
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 12:48:49 PM »
Post Christ, all men have eternal life or eternal life-in-death.

Welcome back Porter. What do you mean in bold?
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,181
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 12:56:09 PM »
Post Christ, all men have eternal life or eternal life-in-death.

Welcome back Porter. What do you mean in bold?

That is my taking liberties with the doctrine of the second death.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline mcarmichael

  • Novice
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,566
  • Actual jerk
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 10:53:02 PM »
If I recall correctly, there was something about each man being judged "according to their works". It seems to me that that would pose more of an issue to a Protestant than it would to an Orthodox, though. Most Protestants I know hope *not* to be judged according to their works; but I digress.

I was also under the impression that the so-called "general" resurrection would occur subsequent to (after) the apocalypse, so if we're taking that allegorically, basically all bets are off.

Of course I don't hold to the particular reading of 1 Peter as some others here, either.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 10:56:46 PM by mcarmichael »
"Now, don't allow yourself to be fatigued beyond your powers; there's a amiable bein'.
Consider what you owe to society, and don't let yourself be injured by too much work.
For the sake o' your feller-creeturs, keep yourself as quiet as you can; only think what a loss you would be!"
- The very memorable words of Samuel Veller

"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,021
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 01:22:55 PM »
I wonder, then, how people explain away Luke 16.22

"...And it fell due for the beggar to die and for him to be carried away by the angels into the bosom of Abraham...."

?
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,116
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 02:57:28 PM »
Why would it need to be explained away?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,021
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 03:23:53 PM »
oh, sorry, maybe I misread.  I thought someone said above that Jews were in hell before the Resurrection of Christ?

Could you please clarify? 
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,116
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 03:42:14 PM »
The bosom of Abraham is regarded as the section of hell for the righteous, like the Jews believed ( and somewhat equivalent to the Greek/Roman Elysium).
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Velsigne

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,021
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2017, 07:56:52 PM »
I thought bosom of Abraham was heaven.  Well it wouldn't be the first time someone called hell heaven.
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,116
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2017, 08:11:11 PM »
Heaven isn't opened for mortals until the resurrection.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,012
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 09:24:36 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if "Heaven" and "Hell" (with all their semantic baggage) would still be our default terms for this kind of thing if it weren't for Dante.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Ainnir

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,198
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 10:39:29 PM »
Iconodule, are you using hell as in Sheol or hell as in Gehenna?
"Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that."  ~me

Taking a hiatus.  Pray for me, a sinner.

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,012
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2017, 02:07:24 AM »
Iconodule, are you using hell as in Sheol or hell as in Gehenna?

Gotta be Sheol, yeah? I don't think there's a "nice" part of Gehenna.
Is that what they teach you at the temple volnutt-stein?

Actually, it's Volnutt-berg.

Rome doesn't care. Rome is actually very cool guy.

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,116
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Non Jews before Jesus.
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2017, 07:43:04 AM »
Iconodule, are you using hell as in Sheol or hell as in Gehenna?

Yes, sheol.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum