Author Topic: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?  (Read 2240 times)

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Offline Jude1:3

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  I'm seriously asking. These people are everywhere hidden in every single branch of The Christian faith (Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism).

  Even on this forum I know there are occultists who try and troll and pretend to be Orthodox. You can just tell. In the past couple of years it has become blatantly clear on youtube how many Tares Among the Wheat and Goats among The Sheep there are and many Christian people seem oblivious to it  even when it's right in their faces.

  I just want to know how The Orthodox Church handles these people. It makes me think of Rasputin.

I bring this up because of how many people I thought were Christians, but came to realize that they were secretly acting and closet witches/warlocks.

Thanks in advance.



« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 04:11:43 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline William T

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For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Holy Toledo!

Offline Jude1:3

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For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.


Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?

About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 04:53:12 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline Iconodule

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I only know of one person on the forum into theosophy and he has openly left the faith and doesn't post here anymore anyway. For future cases though I find this method to be highly reliable for detecting witches:

Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Iconodule

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In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 06:38:01 AM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Jude1:3

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In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, etc.


Nazis ? As in real Nazis ?

About the Evangelical thing, those churches are infested with these closet occultists.

So, is there an official Orthodox Church teaching about how to deal with and reprimand these people in The Churches ?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 06:45:20 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline Alpha60

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For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.


Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?

About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

if you have concerns about specific members, you can request access to the private forum and denounce them, which is a bit boorish, or you can talk to the mods, which is probably the proper thing to do.

BTW lest my avatar be interpreted as an occult symbol; my tongue-in-cheek username refers to Alpha 60, the villain from the French New Wave film Alphaville, a malevolent computer that I believe inspired the character of HAL-9000 in 2001: A Space Odyssey (HAL was originally to be a robot, and not a stationary "mainframe" computer like Alpha 60).  The specific avatar I use is an emblem on the police cars of Alphaville, which replaces the letter "O" in the word POLICE.

Now, in the actual Orthodox church, Rasputin's presence and growing influence in the Orthodox Church alarmed both the seniormost bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church and the pious members of the laity who were numbered among the courtiers of St. Nicholas.  In the end, a group of noblemen killed him, in a brutal murder which the Church cannot and should not justify.

However, I am certain that he was excommunicated and anathematized years before; the bishops of the Holy Synod risked the wrath of the Czar, or more specifically, his wife, but refused to call him a monk, referring to him as a "cassock bearer."

Practically speaking, regarding members of the Church, if someone starts turning up in church wearing obviously occult jewelry, like Pentagons, an observant priest will llkely have a talk with them.  They might be denied communion.

On one of John Sandfipoulous's blogs there was a lovely story about the conversion of two Gothic occultist teenage boys, one of whom introduced himself to the Priest as Satan.  Through loving-kindness, the Priest rather than driving them out welcomed them, and showed them love, and the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.

Many people who dabble in the occult experience demonic harasssment or other problems (see fatheralexander.org, which has a good collection of articles on this subject by the late ROCOR Bishop Alexander Mileant, may his memory be eternal).  We can exorcise these demons through baptism or Chrismation.

Demons take flight at the sign of the cross.  Christ has risen, and they are overthrown, now, always and forever.

Praise be to God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

Or even worse, the sustained infilitration of extra-diocesan parishes of the Coptic Church by Protestant groups, even in Egypt.  HG Bishop Abanoub of Mukkatam had to step in and throw out a mass of Protestantization which had gripped that church.  I watched a stirring homily of his, subtitled.

Protestants have been trying to hijack the Oriental Orthodox churches since around 1800.  There have been several attempts, and one sustained schism, which led to the creation of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church, which ripped out a portion of the Indian Orthodox Church.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Jude1:3

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For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?
About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

 the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.


That's great when the person repents. I'm referring to people who are "Acting" and "Pretending" to be a Christian for many years in The Church but are secretly using Sorcery and the black arts Etc.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 06:54:57 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline Jude1:3

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In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

Or even worse, the sustained infilitration of extra-diocesan parishes of the Coptic Church by Protestant groups, even in Egypt.  HG Bishop Abanoub of Mukkatam had to step in and throw out a mass of Protestantization which had gripped that church.  I watched a stirring homily of his, subtitled.

Protestants have been trying to hijack the Oriental Orthodox churches since around 1800.  There have been several attempts, and one sustained schism, which led to the creation of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church, which ripped out a portion of the Indian Orthodox Church.



It's interesting that you bring this up because I was watching an Ethiopian Orthodox video on youtube that had a woman speaking and she was making occult witch craft hand gestures and it really bugged me. That is why I'm convinced that they are in every single Christian sect trying to corrupt and destroy from with in.

Offline Iconodule

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For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?
About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

 the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.


That's great when the person repents. I'm referring to people who are "Acting" and "Pretending" to be a Christian for many years in The Church but are secretly using Sorcery and the black arts Etc.

What makes you assume these people exist? Having interacted with various occultists in my time, they couldn't infiltrate their way into a crowd of besotted  Juggalos. And besides, they are quite happy to do their silliness in the open rather than pretend to practice a religion they hate. Imagine all the terrible cups of church coffee they'd have to drink in order to accomplish... what exactly?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Jude1:3

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Offline Jude1:3

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For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?
About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

 the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.


That's great when the person repents. I'm referring to people who are "Acting" and "Pretending" to be a Christian for many years in The Church but are secretly using Sorcery and the black arts Etc.

What makes you assume these people exist? Having interacted with various occultists in my time, they couldn't infiltrate their way into a crowd of besotted  Juggalos. And besides, they are quite happy to do their silliness in the open rather than pretend to practice a religion they hate. Imagine all the terrible cups of church coffee they'd have to drink in order to accomplish... what exactly?


Theistic Satanists hate The Church so much that they are willing to deceive and play a role to infiltrate The Church and cause problems, Schisms etc.

Offline Iconodule

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Jude1:3

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?


Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsYqeyfD1obn0adRqVcCBg/videos

Offline Iconodule

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?


Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsYqeyfD1obn0adRqVcCBg/videos

Okay, okay, you got me. Well trolled. Pretty funny.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Jude1:3

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?


Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsYqeyfD1obn0adRqVcCBg/videos

Okay, okay, you got me. Well trolled. Pretty funny.


I'm not trolling. You should check them out.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:32:18 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline Iconodule

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I saw a video somewhere explaining how people whose usernames start with "J" (for Jormungandr) belong to an occult cabal working to usher in Ragnarok. How do I know you're not one?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:34:19 AM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Jude1:3

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I saw a video somewhere explaining how people whose usernames start with "J" (for Jormungandr) belong to an occult cabal working to usher in Ragnarok. How do I know you're not one?


I don't know. Ask God about it.

I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:37:44 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline Iconodule

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There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:42:43 AM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Jude1:3

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There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.


Ephesians 5:11 says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Jude 1:3 says to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

The apostle Paul openly rebukes Elymas The Sorcerer who was trying to stop the preaching to Bar-Jesus, in Acts 13:6-12

 Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus,  who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.  But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.  Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him  and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?  And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand.  Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:54:01 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline LBK

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?

Seconded. And not just Italians. Many other ethnicities speak with their hands, all without a shred of masonic conspiracy or occultism behind it.

Jude1:3, ISTM you're reading far too much into perfectly innocent hand gestures and behaviors. Not everything on Youtube is true.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.

'Leave off those superstitions, (wo)man!'

There you have it.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline LBK

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There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.


Ephesians 5:11 says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Jude 1:3 says to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

The apostle Paul openly rebukes Elymas The Sorcerer who was trying to stop the preaching to Bar-Jesus, in Acts 13:6-12

 Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus,  who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.  But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.  Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him  and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?  And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand.  Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

All well and good, Jude. But equating innocent hand gestures with witchcraft is simply wrong. There is no "there" there.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Jude1:3

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This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?

Seconded. And not just Italians. Many other ethnicities speak with their hands, all without a shred of masonic conspiracy or occultism behind it.

Jude1:3, ISTM you're reading far too much into perfectly innocent hand gestures and behaviors. Not everything on Youtube is true.


I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

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I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Jude1:3

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I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.

'Leave off those superstitions, (wo)man!'

There you have it.

huh ?

Offline LBK

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I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.

'Leave off those superstitions, (wo)man!'

There you have it.

huh ?

Seems pretty clear to me Arachne is saying you should stop falling for superstitions.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

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I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Jude1:3

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Well, I won't bug you guys anymore about it. If you find any official thing on it please post it. Thank you.

Offline Jude1:3

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I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that.


Are you saying that I have Prelest ?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:16:52 AM by Jude1:3 »

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I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that.


Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

I'm saying that we're a lot more wary of claims that someone has a direct line to the Lord than you seem to be.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:19:18 AM by Arachne »
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Jude1:3

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I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that.


Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

I'm saying that we're a lot more wary of claims that someone has a direct line to the Lord than you seem to be.


I'm trying to be as straight forward and honest as I can about what I've experienced. It's all good. I'm wary of people too because of these things.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:31:08 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline LBK

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Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

The term is "in prelest". Prelest can be translated into English as spiritual delusion. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Like seeing occult references in simple, ordinary hand gestures that most of the world's population uses during conversation.

What would be far more beneficial to you is to attend an Orthodox church regularly, and to develop a relationship with the priest there. A good priest should be able to deal with your concerns.



« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:30:40 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Jude1:3

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Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

The term is "in prelest". Prelest can be translated into English as spiritual delusion. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Like seeing occult references in simple, ordinary hand gestures that most of the world's population does during conversation.

What would be far more beneficial to you is to attend an Orthodox church regularly, and to develop a relationship with the priest there. A good priest should be able to deal with your concerns.


My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.

Father God, Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit Most High God lead me to this please. Amen.

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Anyway, if you want something put down in black and white, you won't find anything. The Church disciplines errant children with excommunication (i.e. barring from the sacraments) and appropriate spiritual exercises. If someone confesses to activities incompatible with the faith, they will be suitably penanced and, in due time and repentance, readmitted.

If the so-called occultist is in the closet, as you posit, then they won't confess, and if they partake of the sacraments unworthily, that's on them.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline LBK

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My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Jude1:3

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Anyway, if you want something put down in black and white, you won't find anything. The Church disciplines errant children with excommunication (i.e. barring from the sacraments) and appropriate spiritual exercises. If someone confesses to activities incompatible with the faith, they will be suitably penanced and, in due time and repentance, readmitted.

If the so-called occultist is in the closet, as you posit, then they won't confess, and if they partake of the sacraments unworthily, that's on them.


Thank you for this answer.

Offline Jude1:3

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My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

Offline Jude1:3

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Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to annoy or insult anyone. I apologize if I did.

Offline LBK

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My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes? 
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?

All women are witches, and if some don't practise, it's only for lack of opportunity, didn't you get the memo?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/leonoraepstein/quiz-could-you-survive-the-salem-witch-trials
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Jude1:3

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My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?


I know not everyone who does this is evil or knowingly doing it.



Offline LBK

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My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?


I know not everyone who does this is evil or knowingly doing it.

There's your answer, then.

I'd go further and say there is no evil at all in the gesture. The evil only exists in the superstitious minds of online conspiracy theorists.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?