Author Topic: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?  (Read 3545 times)

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Online Volnutt

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2018, 11:23:22 PM »
I wonder why the noncanonical WR priest's zucchetto is blue.
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2018, 07:28:34 AM »
I wonder why the noncanonical WR priest's zucchetto is blue.

Maybe something to do with the Sarum Rite? After all, the colors which Sarum uses are very different than what Rome used post-Trent.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2018, 08:03:38 AM »


Is that a yarmulke?

In the Western Church, zucchetos developed in the early Middle Ages in order to keep the head of the tonsured, bald cleric warm during the winter - but they eventually became a symbol of the priesthood / bishopry. In the Roman Catholic Church, they're black for priests, purple for bishops, red for cardinals, and white for the Pope.

You rarely see them on Roman Catholic priests nowadays, usually exclusively bishops and upward.
Clearly this shows how observant I am.   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :-X

And thanks.    :)
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2018, 10:10:33 AM »
I wonder why the noncanonical WR priest's zucchetto is blue.

Maybe something to do with the Sarum Rite? After all, the colors which Sarum uses are very different than what Rome used post-Trent.

The Sarum colors were the same as the Roman, with the addition of yellow and blue, though they were distributed a little differently. In the case of blue specifically, it was used on the feast of St. Michael the Archangel, but otherwise was penitential, like violet or blue. That looks like it could be a Lenten/Advent chasuble, so the blue zucchetto would be appropriate.

In the Roman Church, the zucchetto may be worn by all who have been ordained at least a deacon, but must be worn by bishops. The most recent legislation was in 1968 by Paul VI. The pope wears white, cardinals wear scarlet, bishops wear amaranth, priests and deacons wear black. Franciscan friars have a unique brown zucchetto. Before the mid-19th century, bishops were also supposed to wear black, also. Wearing it probably fell out of favor with priests and deacons because they are not permitted to wear it at all during Mass; a bishop removes his for the Canon, but otherwise wears it throughout Mass. It's just easier not to bother if it's not required (a common Roman approach in recent years).
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 10:10:50 AM by MalpanaGiwargis »
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Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2018, 06:33:30 PM »
Here is the monastery chapel of St Michael and St Martin, near Luzé, in France.

Do you have any other Liturgy of Saint Germanus Churches?

I have indeed.  :)

In order, the attached images depict the altars of the churches of:
  • Ss Athanasius & Amandus, Brussels, Belgium
  • St George, Douala, Cameroon
  • The Annunciation, Montpellier, France
  • The Visitation & the Holy Encounter, Nancy, France
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2018, 06:49:31 PM »
The Brussels one is really pretty.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2018, 07:02:40 PM »
It's lovely, isn't it? I hope to visit there soon.

The reredos at Nancy was painted by St John of Saint-Denis (Eugraphe Kovalevsky).

This is at the Church of Our Lady & St Thiebault near Gorze, France.  I took this just before Vespers for Theophany this year. I know it appears Byzantine in decor but the services are very much the Benedictine Office and the Liturgy of St Germanus as celebrated in our church.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:04:59 PM by Subdeacon Michael »
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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2018, 07:26:32 PM »
I liked this related video of Christmas chant. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6caoq6 I'd love to visit one of your churches if I ever find myself in France.

Subdeacon, if you don't mind my asking, is your Church currently in talks with any world Orthodox Church for establishing communion?
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Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline Subdeacon Michael

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2018, 05:15:21 PM »
I liked this related video of Christmas chant. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6caoq6 I'd love to visit one of your churches if I ever find myself in France.

I am sure you would be made most welcome, Volnutt.  If you go to one of the places where there is also accommodation available, (the monastery at Bois-Aubry or the Bethany Centre near Gorze), let them know in advance and they'll be happy to host you.  Here's another, more recent video from the Gorze parish, for Pascha.

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Subdeacon, if you don't mind my asking, is your Church currently in talks with any world Orthodox Church for establishing communion?

Of course I don't mind: it's a reasonable question.  Sadly, there are no talks along those lines anymore, due partly to lessons learnt from history and partly to differing views on the current situation and on what the path to mutual recognition might look like.  We can message privately if you'd like to discuss it further, so as not to divert attention from this very encouraging thread.
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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2018, 06:54:05 PM »
I liked this related video of Christmas chant. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6caoq6 I'd love to visit one of your churches if I ever find myself in France.

I am sure you would be made most welcome, Volnutt.  If you go to one of the places where there is also accommodation available, (the monastery at Bois-Aubry or the Bethany Centre near Gorze), let them know in advance and they'll be happy to host you.  Here's another, more recent video from the Gorze parish, for Pascha.

Very nice! I'm glad to see that they've got a few younger faces that the congregation from 2012 had. Good for longevity of the community.

Quote
Subdeacon, if you don't mind my asking, is your Church currently in talks with any world Orthodox Church for establishing communion?

Of course I don't mind: it's a reasonable question.  Sadly, there are no talks along those lines anymore, due partly to lessons learnt from history and partly to differing views on the current situation and on what the path to mutual recognition might look like.  We can message privately if you'd like to discuss it further, so as not to divert attention from this very encouraging thread.

That's too bad. I hope the situation improves at some point.

I've got a lot of things on my plate right now, but maybe we can PM about it some other time. Thanks for the offer, though!
It's the double-edged sword of being lazy and being bored.- Reliant K

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The breath of Thine Holy Spirit inspires artists, poets and scientists. The power of Thy supreme knowledge makes them prophets and interpreters of Thy laws, who reveal the depths of Thy creative wisdom. Their works speak unwittingly of Thee. How great art Thou in Thy creation! How great art Thou in man!
Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2018, 05:39:09 AM »
Paschal Triduum at St Gregory The Great Orthodox Church:












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Offline Caelestinus

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2018, 07:13:21 AM »
In the Roman Church, the zucchetto may be worn by all who have been ordained at least a deacon, but must be worn by bishops. The most recent legislation was in 1968 by Paul VI. The pope wears white, cardinals wear scarlet, bishops wear amaranth, priests and deacons wear black. Franciscan friars have a unique brown zucchetto. Before the mid-19th century, bishops were also supposed to wear black, also. Wearing it probably fell out of favor with priests and deacons because they are not permitted to wear it at all during Mass; a bishop removes his for the Canon, but otherwise wears it throughout Mass. It's just easier not to bother if it's not required (a common Roman approach in recent years).
at least a deacon: Please give proof!
Cistercian and Premonstratensians Abbots for example wear white as well (but not in moiré pattern).
Except they (priests, not deacons) have special permission to wear the zucchetto during Mass.

Offline Caelestinus

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2018, 07:15:37 AM »
Paschal Triduum at St Gregory The Great Orthodox Church:

Nice pictures!

BTW: Black dalmatics/tunicellae are not worn on Good Friday (according to the traditional rubrics).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:17:19 AM by Caelestinus »

Offline Caelestinus

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2018, 07:16:26 AM »
Terce of Holy Saturday:
https://youtu.be/_k-dHO-DJws

(BTW: The icon is not veiled.)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:24:24 AM by Caelestinus »

Offline Caelestinus

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2018, 07:16:43 AM »
...
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:17:31 AM by Caelestinus »

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2018, 10:25:42 AM »
Paschal Triduum at St Gregory The Great Orthodox Church:

Nice pictures!

BTW: Black dalmatics/tunicellae are not worn on Good Friday (according to the traditional rubrics).

Oh, that's fact that there are some specials rolled up vestments:
http://wf1.xcdn.pl/files/18/03/31/474014_XngK_.20MichaC58220Rudnicki208270_83.jpg

But in another picture I've seen something different


Both pictures are from the Liturgies of Good Friday celebrated according to the rites before the reform of the Holy Week (1955)
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Offline Caelestinus

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2018, 11:16:51 AM »
In both pictures deacon and subdeacon are wearing the folded chasuables (planetae plicatae), in the second picture they are simply shortened.

If you do not have them, the two Levits are to wear simply albs with maniple (if the service requires them), additionally the deacon the stole over the left shoulder.

The bishop is wearing the black pontifical dalmatic and tunicella, that is correct, but the assistent deacons do not wear the folded chasuable (black dalmatics would be fine).

BTW: The shoes in the second pic are overwhelming!  :) Do you have the link to the website?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 11:19:35 AM by Caelestinus »

Offline Dominika

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2018, 05:39:17 AM »
In both pictures deacon and subdeacon are wearing the folded chasuables (planetae plicatae), in the second picture they are simply shortened.

If you do not have them, the two Levits are to wear simply albs with maniple (if the service requires them), additionally the deacon the stole over the left shoulder.

The bishop is wearing the black pontifical dalmatic and tunicella, that is correct, but the assistent deacons do not wear the folded chasuable (black dalmatics would be fine).

I'm so keen on liturgics, but when it goes for Tridentine rite, I'm giving up - I mean, there are too many rubrics, strange rules (that in East nobody would pay so much attention and so on) :D Anyway, thank you for the info.

BTW: The shoes in the second pic are overwhelming!  :) Do you have the link to the website?

http://ikomutoprzeszkadzalo.pl/?lang=en - there are more interesting pics
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Offline MalpanaGiwargis

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2018, 07:53:07 PM »
In the Roman Church, the zucchetto may be worn by all who have been ordained at least a deacon, but must be worn by bishops. The most recent legislation was in 1968 by Paul VI. The pope wears white, cardinals wear scarlet, bishops wear amaranth, priests and deacons wear black. Franciscan friars have a unique brown zucchetto. Before the mid-19th century, bishops were also supposed to wear black, also. Wearing it probably fell out of favor with priests and deacons because they are not permitted to wear it at all during Mass; a bishop removes his for the Canon, but otherwise wears it throughout Mass. It's just easier not to bother if it's not required (a common Roman approach in recent years).
at least a deacon: Please give proof!
Cistercian and Premonstratensians Abbots for example wear white as well (but not in moiré pattern).
Except they (priests, not deacons) have special permission to wear the zucchetto during Mass.

There are references in books about ceremonial that mention it (such as James Charles Noonan's The Church Visible), but I have searched in vain for a primary source discussing explicit permission for deacons to wear the zucchetto. The reason is probably that the zucchetto is only a liturgical item for the bishop or an abbot; a priest or deacon would leave it in the sacristy, anyway. The places I've read about priests and deacons wearing it all say the custom died out some time ago.

The reference to legislation by Paul VI is more accurately an Instruction of the Secretariat of State called Ut sive sollicite; it deals with cardinals and other prelates; it does not mention simple priests and deacons.
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2018, 01:43:38 PM »
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #65 on: May 06, 2018, 11:02:03 PM »
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I dig this.
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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2018, 11:08:20 PM »
Paschal Triduum at St Gregory The Great Orthodox Church:

Nice pictures!

BTW: Black dalmatics/tunicellae are not worn on Good Friday (according to the traditional rubrics).

Oh, that's fact that there are some specials rolled up vestments:
http://wf1.xcdn.pl/files/18/03/31/474014_XngK_.20MichaC58220Rudnicki208270_83.jpg

But in another picture I've seen something different


Both pictures are from the Liturgies of Good Friday celebrated according to the rites before the reform of the Holy Week (1955)

That is the famed “Folded chasuble,” which I think was usually not just a regular black fiddleback folded up once per annum, but rather, for priests who could afford it, a black fiddleback chasuble specially made and sewn into the folded position for use on Good Friday.  Their use was IIRC not universal, and personally I have mixed feelings on it, although given that black chasubles were the norm in all requiem masses, it does make sense to have something special for the Mass of the Presanctified.  I guess I am just not entirely sure of the aesthetics.

In the rite of Lyons they used ash colored vestments, kind of a charcoal, tan color, on Ash Wednesday, instead of black, and recently this has been revived (the Lyonaise Rite is being resuscitated thankfully), and that is an effective look.  I like the dark red / burgundy Byzantine vestments one is likely to see in a Greek Orthodox church the most for Good Friday (Great and Holy Friday in EO terminology).
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: Anyone got any beautiful picture of Western Rite Orthodox Churches?
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2018, 11:24:57 PM »
Some nice pictures thanks