Author Topic: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years  (Read 564 times)

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Offline Agabus

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The earliest Latin commentary on the Gospels, lost for more than 1,500 years, has been rediscovered and made available in English for the first time. The extraordinary find, a work written by a bishop in northern Italy, Fortunatianus of Aquileia, dates back to the middle of the fourth century.

The biblical text of the manuscript is of particular significance, as it predates the standard Latin version known as the Vulgate and provides new evidence about the earliest form of the Gospels in Latin.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2017, 12:17:15 AM »
To be clear, from what I'm reading, the commentary has been in our possession for some time but has recently been reclassified by an expert.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Agabus

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 12:19:03 AM »
To be clear, from what I'm reading, the commentary has been in our possession for some time but has recently been reclassified by an expert.

Something to that effect.

Another report I read this afternoon mentioned that the manuscript has been known for a while, but only recently have hi-def digital scans revealed some of its more obscure/faded texts.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 12:28:54 AM »
How great! Would love to see a scholarly edition and translation soon. Says it's a hundred pages!
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 02:27:59 AM »
How great! Would love to see a scholarly edition and translation soon. Says it's a hundred pages!
118 pages
https://www.degruyter.com/viewbooktoc/product/469498
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 02:38:04 AM »
How great! Would love to see a scholarly edition and translation soon. Says it's a hundred pages!
118 pages
https://www.degruyter.com/viewbooktoc/product/469498
Well, that was quick... Good to know.  :)
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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 09:35:21 AM »
How great! Would love to see a scholarly edition and translation soon. Says it's a hundred pages!
118 pages
https://www.degruyter.com/viewbooktoc/product/469498

Wow! Free already?

Are there other good books in there?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 12:24:48 PM »
How great! Would love to see a scholarly edition and translation soon. Says it's a hundred pages!
118 pages
https://www.degruyter.com/viewbooktoc/product/469498

Thank you!
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 05:08:19 PM »
This will be helpful in reconstructing bits of the vetus Latina edition of the Scriptures which predated Jerome's Vulgate.
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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 05:16:17 PM »
Will it though? People like St. Augustine complained about how problematic it was that there were so many and so varied Latin translations by the end of the 4th century. Isn't this a situation similar to the Septuagint, where people speak as though there were one translation/edition (for convenience), but in actuality there were dozens or hundreds of versions, with varying degrees of differences between them?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2017, 05:52:43 PM »
It's a common mistake that St. Jerome's work was identical to the Vulgate. In truth, the Vatican and various councils altered the text over centuries to produce the "one true" text we think of today.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2017, 08:17:27 PM »
To be clear, from what I'm reading, the commentary has been in our possession for some time but has recently been reclassified by an expert.

Something to that effect.

Another report I read this afternoon mentioned that the manuscript has been known for a while, but only recently have hi-def digital scans revealed some of its more obscure/faded texts.

One of us ought to read this article, to determine whether or not it answers any of these questions.
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2017, 10:31:46 PM »
It's a common mistake that St. Jerome's work was identical to the Vulgate. In truth, the Vatican and various councils altered the text over centuries to produce the "one true" text we think of today.
The Council of Trent proclaimed the Vulgata translation of the time as infallible in matters of faith and morals.  Then it was revised in 1979 as the Nova Vulgata, which arguably changed the meaning of some texts of the Old Testament.  The only question is which translation is more infallible, whose corollary is which one is less fallible.  :)


PS: regardless, the Nova Vulgata is my last resort to understand most obscure passages; undoubtedly, it's the best translation in the West, on par with the Septuagint.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 10:33:26 PM by Sharbel »
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2017, 12:06:20 AM »
It's a common mistake that St. Jerome's work was identical to the Vulgate. In truth, the Vatican and various councils altered the text over centuries to produce the "one true" text we think of today.

There are ancient manuscripts of the Vulgate to which one can refer, which lack, for example, the Comma Johanneum.

So, for the non Latin speaker, they should not think that the Challoner Douay Rheims is translated from the manuscripts of St. Jerome, but, aside from the comments, which reflect Tridentine dogma, I think its very useful from an Orthodox perspective as it includes most of the "Deuterocanon" and it translates from St. Jerome's translation of the Greek Psalter, so the Psalms align with our Stasis and Kathisma boundaries and read correctly, e.g. Ps 95:5 Vulgate reads "The gods of the gentiles are devils," which matches the LXX "The gods of the gentiles are demons" and contradicts the Masoreric Psalm 96:5 "The gods of the gentiles are idols."  Major semantic difference.

I endorse the Challoner Douay Rheims, aside from the commentary, as a backup Bible for an Anglophone Orthodox who can read Jacobean English but lacks acccess to an Orthodox Study Bible.
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Re: Lost Latin commentary on the Gospels rediscovered after 1,500 years
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2017, 03:39:05 PM »


I endorse the Challoner Douay Rheims, aside from the commentary, as a backup Bible for an Anglophone Orthodox who can read Jacobean English but lacks acccess to an Orthodox Study Bible.

I concur.  I have always liked the English style of the Douay-Rheims.
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