Author Topic: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy  (Read 493 times)

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Offline Opus118

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Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« on: August 20, 2017, 01:46:07 AM »
I ran into this essay about why Eastern Orthodox should accept the Book of Urantia. From my recollection, it is a weird cult, but the argument is made here that we are much closer to the beliefs of Urantians than the Roman Catholic Church.

It is actually a pretty good read, better than what the baptists put out for their sheep-stealers in Russia:
http://urantia-book.org/archive/sfj/orthodox_christianity_urantia.htm

I was investigating Christian Humanism, but Humanism is ambiguous so I prefer the term Christian Hellenism. In any case, I got hopelessly side tracked by this essay.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 01:52:28 AM »
Are you yourself saying that you think Orthodoxy is close to a New Age cult, or are you just holding this up for scorn?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Opus118

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2017, 02:45:57 AM »
Are you yourself saying that you think Orthodoxy is close to a New Age cult, or are you just holding this up for scorn?

When does New Age start? Scorn in regard to what? I also do not recall ever having that emotion. Seems pretty sick to me.

I thought it was a pretty good essay considering.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2017, 11:28:02 AM »
I remember coming across the Urantia book at a bookstore in the 90's in the "Metaphysical" section. It was very thick and the prose was dense and dull. It was hard to really see what ideas really set it apart and made it worth the slog through the text, so I didn't go very far. There seemed to be a lot of ideas that probably sounded very cutting edge in the 1950's and which subsequently became commonplace. Something that strikes me about New Agers in general is that, however outlandish or imaginative their ideas might be, they seem incapable of expressing them in any great writing or art. It's always really banal.

Reading the article in the OP, I struggle to find any indication of what Urantia offers to Orthodox Christianity.
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 03:13:06 AM »
I ran into this essay about why Eastern Orthodox should accept the Book of Urantia. From my recollection, it is a weird cult, but the argument is made here that we are much closer to the beliefs of Urantians than the Roman Catholic Church.

It is actually a pretty good read, better than what the baptists put out for their sheep-stealers in Russia:
http://urantia-book.org/archive/sfj/orthodox_christianity_urantia.htm

I was investigating Christian Humanism, but Humanism is ambiguous so I prefer the term Christian Hellenism. In any case, I got hopelessly side tracked by this essay.

Have you read the Urantia book?

Are you suggesting that others read it?

I have not read it.

I have read other cult type books and find that some can have a lot of nice sounding phrases that seem true,  but embedded in those tickling phrases are some very damaging and delusional lies.

What they boil down to is removing the person and power of Christ.

Well it's not at all surprising that people manage to muck it all up.

Just an over emphasis on one's personal pet passion is enough to skew everything

How ironic that the European 'Christian' culture brought to the middle and northern Americas  found Indigenous people to be objects of scorn because they did not possess the European sickness of competitive individualism

And they ended up being the worst lying thieving murdering bunch of Christians possibly ever, and when they began to realize how lost they were they began writing woo woo books to escape Christianity
There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14.12

Offline Opus118

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 10:32:58 AM »
I ran into this essay about why Eastern Orthodox should accept the Book of Urantia. From my recollection, it is a weird cult, but the argument is made here that we are much closer to the beliefs of Urantians than the Roman Catholic Church.

It is actually a pretty good read, better than what the baptists put out for their sheep-stealers in Russia:
http://urantia-book.org/archive/sfj/orthodox_christianity_urantia.htm

I was investigating Christian Humanism, but Humanism is ambiguous so I prefer the term Christian Hellenism. In any case, I got hopelessly side tracked by this essay.

Have you read the Urantia book?

Are you suggesting that others read it?

I have not read it.

I have read other cult type books and find that some can have a lot of nice sounding phrases that seem true,  but embedded in those tickling phrases are some very damaging and delusional lies.

What they boil down to is removing the person and power of Christ.

Well it's not at all surprising that people manage to muck it all up.

Just an over emphasis on one's personal pet passion is enough to skew everything

How ironic that the European 'Christian' culture brought to the middle and northern Americas  found Indigenous people to be objects of scorn because they did not possess the European sickness of competitive individualism

And they ended up being the worst lying thieving murdering bunch of Christians possibly ever, and when they began to realize how lost they were they began writing woo woo books to escape Christianity

I haven't read the book. I learned about it by listening to Coast to Coast AM radio (which deals with ufos, paranormal, cults, etc.) when I couldn't sleep in the early 2000s.

I was suggesting that some might like to read the article. Iconodule's reaction is the same as mine.

I thought it was a good introduction to Orthodoxy.

It is in the vein of this thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,831.msg6794.html#msg6794

The manual for converting Russian Orthodox has moved. It can be found there (it is also a good read):
http://www.roboam.com/BB_E_Orthodox_Manual.pdf

"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 11:14:25 AM »
I ran into this essay about why Eastern Orthodox should accept the Book of Urantia. From my recollection, it is a weird cult, but the argument is made here that we are much closer to the beliefs of Urantians than the Roman Catholic Church.

It is actually a pretty good read, better than what the baptists put out for their sheep-stealers in Russia:
http://urantia-book.org/archive/sfj/orthodox_christianity_urantia.htm

I was investigating Christian Humanism, but Humanism is ambiguous so I prefer the term Christian Hellenism. In any case, I got hopelessly side tracked by this essay.

Have you read the Urantia book?

Are you suggesting that others read it?

I have not read it.

I have read other cult type books and find that some can have a lot of nice sounding phrases that seem true,  but embedded in those tickling phrases are some very damaging and delusional lies.

What they boil down to is removing the person and power of Christ.

Well it's not at all surprising that people manage to muck it all up.

Just an over emphasis on one's personal pet passion is enough to skew everything

How ironic that the European 'Christian' culture brought to the middle and northern Americas  found Indigenous people to be objects of scorn because they did not possess the European sickness of competitive individualism

And they ended up being the worst lying thieving murdering bunch of Christians possibly ever, and when they began to realize how lost they were they began writing woo woo books to escape Christianity

I haven't read the book. I learned about it by listening to Coast to Coast AM radio (which deals with ufos, paranormal, cults, etc.) when I couldn't sleep in the early 2000s.

I was suggesting that some might like to read the article. Iconodule's reaction is the same as mine.

I thought it was a good introduction to Orthodoxy.

It is in the vein of this thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,831.msg6794.html#msg6794

The manual for converting Russian Orthodox has moved. It can be found there (it is also a good read):
http://www.roboam.com/BB_E_Orthodox_Manual.pdf

You thought what now?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2017, 11:26:10 AM »
1. The Urantia Book is heathen, the product of a non-Christian religion.  To say we are closer to it than to Roman Catholicism, which used to be a part of our church before the schism, which has Eastern Rites which use our liturgy and teach our theology, and which increasingly, in recent years, under the influence of figures such as Pope Benedict XVI and even, despite his myriad flaws, Pope Francis, has been drawing closer to the Orthodox Church in many respects, to the point where one can not only pray but hope with some reason, that we just might be able to heal the schism with them before 2054 comes across (and I do beg your pardon Opus118, but this really is how the idea strikes me) as patently absurd.

2. Please, please, please do not use Coast to Coast AM as a reliable news source for anything.  Coast to Coast AM is basically, at best, ghost stories and creepy X files things to listen to while driving late at night, or at least it used to be, in the Art Bell era.  Now, under George Noory, its basically a bunch of liars, cranks, demonaics, witches, astrologers, and practitioners of the occult deceiving people on a massive scale.

In either case, you should almost never believe anything you hear on it.  I've yet to hear a guest on it who was not deluded (for example, some angry blowhard spending more than an hour yakking about chemtrails, which don't exist, being merely the contrails produced by jetliners as they travel through the air, the geometric patterns due to something called "airspace management", wherein air traffic control routes aircraft travellig a certain route on fixed "skyways" to reduce the risk of collision), or a complete liar (there was a chap, who happened to be a middle aged lawyer who claimed in his yourh to have been a "child pariticipant" in a government program involving interstellar travel, time travel and other technologies developed at Area 51, and naturally, had a book to sell about it).

The only exception is at the very beginning, George Noory or the Episcopal priest (who else?   :-P) or the other fellows who fill in for him read some standard news items at the beginning, which have come from the Associated Press, et cetera.  But even then, there are much more reliable places to get that information.

When I ran a datacenter in downtown LA, I would schedule my on-site work so that I would usually leave in the middle of the night, and this was in the era when Art Bell still hosted the Halloween and New Years shows.  It was fun to listen to for a good ghost story, and one got the impression that Art Bell viewed his guests with at least something approaching a healthy cynicism.  I never took it seriously.  But it was fun, for listening to spooky X files like paranormal stuff, the sort of thing to keep you awake on an hour-long drive home across the bowells of Hollywood and the San Fernando Valley.  For example, one anonymous caller warned that the government was planning on releasing a plague imminently as a form of population-control, and that a lot adjacent to the Wal-Mart in his hick-town of residence controlled by FEMA was already stacked with special containers in which two corpses could be biologically sealed and then buried in a mass grave (which makes no sense, of course; surely the government would incinerate in that case, and he doubtless saw a lot full of Porta-potties or camper shells).

But you never ever would take it seriously.   As a news source, I think its probably less reliable than the Weekly World News.  And as a source of any kind of religious or spiritual edification, its completely, or absolutely toxic.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2017, 11:46:08 AM »
I ran into this essay about why Eastern Orthodox should accept the Book of Urantia. From my recollection, it is a weird cult, but the argument is made here that we are much closer to the beliefs of Urantians than the Roman Catholic Church.

It is actually a pretty good read, better than what the baptists put out for their sheep-stealers in Russia:
http://urantia-book.org/archive/sfj/orthodox_christianity_urantia.htm

I was investigating Christian Humanism, but Humanism is ambiguous so I prefer the term Christian Hellenism. In any case, I got hopelessly side tracked by this essay.

Have you read the Urantia book?

Are you suggesting that others read it?

I have not read it.

I have read other cult type books and find that some can have a lot of nice sounding phrases that seem true,  but embedded in those tickling phrases are some very damaging and delusional lies.

What they boil down to is removing the person and power of Christ.

Well it's not at all surprising that people manage to muck it all up.

Just an over emphasis on one's personal pet passion is enough to skew everything

How ironic that the European 'Christian' culture brought to the middle and northern Americas  found Indigenous people to be objects of scorn because they did not possess the European sickness of competitive individualism

And they ended up being the worst lying thieving murdering bunch of Christians possibly ever, and when they began to realize how lost they were they began writing woo woo books to escape Christianity

I haven't read the book. I learned about it by listening to Coast to Coast AM radio (which deals with ufos, paranormal, cults, etc.) when I couldn't sleep in the early 2000s.

I was suggesting that some might like to read the article. Iconodule's reaction is the same as mine.

I thought it was a good introduction to Orthodoxy.

It is in the vein of this thread:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,831.msg6794.html#msg6794

The manual for converting Russian Orthodox has moved. It can be found there (it is also a good read):
http://www.roboam.com/BB_E_Orthodox_Manual.pdf

You thought what now?

I thought both articles would be worthwhile to have in the oc.net library (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/articles) as a teaching aid for converts.

What are your thoughts, having read them?

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2017, 12:06:04 PM »
Converting whom to what?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Opus118

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2017, 12:34:14 PM »
Converting whom to what?

Inquirers of Orthodoxy.  We know the truth. We have nothing to hide.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2017, 12:49:41 PM »
Converting them to Urantia?

What's the "truth"? That we're a cryptic New Age -style religion?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Opus118

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2017, 01:14:06 PM »
Converting them to Urantia?

What's the "truth"? That we're a cryptic New Age -style religion?

Did you take a peek at both articles? What you are questioning is not what I have been writing about. I am not forcing you to watch a bunch of boring youtube videos for goodness' sake. If that were the case, I would understand.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2017, 01:18:39 PM »
I wonder if the author of the first article was brought up in Orthodoxy and is now trying to reconnect in some way without surrendering his commitments to Urantia. That's the impression I have at least. Here's hoping Orthodoxy wins.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2017, 01:44:16 PM »
Converting them to Urantia?

What's the "truth"? That we're a cryptic New Age -style religion?

Did you take a peek at both articles? What you are questioning is not what I have been writing about. I am not forcing you to watch a bunch of boring youtube videos for goodness' sake. If that were the case, I would understand.

Just say you're a New Ager.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2017, 01:52:46 PM »
From my recollection, it is a weird cult

This seems accurate enough...
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2017, 03:49:34 PM »
A summary of the Urantia Book on Wikipedia leaves with no doubt that it is blasphemous heresy:

Quote

God, according to the book, is one Deity who functions on a range of different levels of reality, both personal and impersonal. God is taught to exist in a Trinity of three perfectly individualized persons who are co-equal: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.[41] These persons are referred to by additional titles in the book, primarily as the "Universal Father," "Eternal Son," and "Infinite Spirit."[41][42] While stating that the concept of one God in three persons is difficult to fully understand, the book says that the idea: "...in no manner violates the truth of the divine unity. The three personalities of Paradise Deity are, in all universe reality reactions and in all creature relations, as one."[43]

The Father, Son, and Spirit are considered "existential" persons of Deity, those in existence from the eternal past to the eternal future.[44] In addition, three persons of Deity are described who are "experiential", or incomplete and in the process of actualizing: God the Supreme; God the Ultimate; and God the Absolute.[44] Of these three, God the Supreme, or "the Supreme Being," is given the most explanation, as the person of Deity evolving in time and space to unify finite reality and the infinite. The persons of God the Ultimate and God the Absolute are considered to be remote from the possibility of comprehension and are covered on a limited basis.

Many types of celestial beings are enumerated in the book, and one of particular note is a joint "offspring" of the Universal Father and Eternal Son called a "Creator Son".[45][46] A divine Creator Son is considered the highest personification of the Universal Father and Eternal Son that is possible for people to know and: "...is, to all practical intents and purposes, God."[47] Jesus of Nazareth is identified as a Creator Son who incarnated on Earth,[46] and the central theme of the book's section recounting his life and teachings is that the religion he preached is the highest known to the world.[48]
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2017, 03:51:59 PM »
Who dug that book out of the dung heap of the occult '70s?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2017, 04:14:50 PM »
Who dug that book out of the dung heap of the occult '70s?

Opus found the article on the cult's site, so it makes sense.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2017, 04:38:12 PM »
Honestly, if I were going to join a New Age cult, I don't see why anyone would even consider the Urantia thing. If you're going to go crazy, go full-on. Ordo Templi Orientis, Raelism, etc. Heck even Mormonism is much more exciting.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2017, 04:59:07 PM »
Who dug that book out of the dung heap of the occult '70s?

Actually it dates from the occult 20s.  Much of the material that fuelled the occult in the 70s was from an earlier period of fascination with the occult, Spiritism and so on in the late 19th and early 20th century.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2017, 05:50:25 PM »
Heck even Mormonism is much more exciting.
I think Urantia is much more cosmic than Mormonism.
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Offline Velsigne

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Re: Urantia confirmed by Eastern Orthodoxy
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2017, 06:07:22 PM »
Who dug that book out of the dung heap of the occult '70s?

Actually it dates from the occult 20s.  Much of the material that fuelled the occult in the 70s was from an earlier period of fascination with the occult, Spiritism and so on in the late 19th and early 20th century.

Yes

And people should stop believing that generation was somehow more pure and stable and wonderful that we should return to those values.

Many of them were quite hateful and racist, particularly the Brits. 

Doing DNA genealogy for over a year and sorting thousands of families it's clear that a lot of people don't have a clue who their family is because that generation screwed around a lot then lied about it.


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