Author Topic: Origin Of Demons  (Read 732 times)

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Offline greggordon

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Origin Of Demons
« on: August 17, 2017, 07:46:07 PM »
What is the view of the orthodox church on demons and how their originated.

an early church father says:

"for these things also He evidently made for man— committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begot children who are those that are called demons;"
[Second Apology of Justin Martyr, Chapter 5]

" For the truth shall be spoken; since of old these evil demons, effecting apparitions of themselves, both defiled women and corrupted boys, and showed such fearful sights to men, that those who did not use their reason in judging of the actions that were done, were struck with terror; and being carried away by fear, and not knowing that these were demons, they called them gods, and gave to each the name which each of the demons chose for himself."
[First Apology of St. Justin Martyr, Chapter 5]


so it seems at least some of the early believers held to a view that in Genesis 6 the fallen angels created demons by their transgression with women.


thanks ahead of time.

Dear greggordon, you have broken at least a few times the forum rule that prohibits crossposting. I am giving you 20% warning.
Dominika, Global Moderator
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 07:06:49 AM by Dominika »
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Offline RobS

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 07:56:08 PM »
Crossposting again from your own board eh?
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Offline servulus

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 08:18:01 PM »
Interesting quotes. I look forward to seeing more about this.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 08:26:37 PM »
What is the view of the orthodox church on demons and how their originated.

an early church father says:

"for these things also He evidently made for man— committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begot children who are those that are called demons;"
[Second Apology of Justin Martyr, Chapter 5]

" For the truth shall be spoken; since of old these evil demons, effecting apparitions of themselves, both defiled women and corrupted boys, and showed such fearful sights to men, that those who did not use their reason in judging of the actions that were done, were struck with terror; and being carried away by fear, and not knowing that these were demons, they called them gods, and gave to each the name which each of the demons chose for himself."
[First Apology of St. Justin Martyr, Chapter 5]


so it seems at least some of the early believers held to a view that in Genesis 6 the fallen angels created demons by their transgression with women.


thanks ahead of time.

Your second quote seems to have nothing to do with where demons/angels come from.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 09:32:23 PM »
St John of Damascus covers this - I would consult him.

Offline Jude1:3

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 05:22:11 AM »
1 Enoch has many of the answers. I've been researching this as well.

• Some Church Father Quotes about the Book of Enoch:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm
http://torahdrivenlife.com/articles/enoch/the-church-fathers-and-the-book-of-enoch/

•••• Long Read •••••

Tertullian, an early church father and founder of Latin Christianity, wrote a few positive things concerning the Book of Enoch. Tertulian writes as follows in his 2nd century work, On the Apparel of Women I 3:1-3.

“I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order of action to angels, is not received by some, because it is not admitted into the Jewish canon either. I suppose they did not think that, having been published before the deluge, it could have safely survived that world-wide calamity, the abolisher of all things. If that is the reason for rejecting it, let them recall to their memory that Noah, the survivor of the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself; and he, of course, had heard and remembered, from domestic renown and hereditary tradition, concerning his own great-grandfather’s ‘grace in the sight of God,’ (Genesis Chapter 6 Verse 8 ) and concerning all his preachings; since Enoch had given no other charge to Methuselah than that he should hand on the knowledge of them to his posterity. Noah therefore, no doubt, might have succeeded in the trusteeship of his preaching; or, had the case been otherwise, he would not have been silent alike concerning the disposition of things made by God, his Preserver, and concerning the particular glory of his own house.

“If Noah had not had this conservative power by so short a route, there would still be this consideration to warrant our assertion of the genuineness of this Scripture: he could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit’s inspiration, after it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge, as, after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonian storming of it, every document of the Jewish literature is generally agreed to have been restored through Ezra.

“But since Enoch in the same Scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; and we read that ‘every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired.’ (2 Timothy 3:16) By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that very reason, just like all the other portions nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude.” (Jude 1:14-15)




Irenaeus, in his work The Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 18, records a condensed retelling of Enoch 6-8. He does this without directly citing the Book of Enoch, yet the citation here is unmistakable.

“And for a very long while wickedness extended and spread, and reached and laid hold upon the whole race of mankind, until a very small seed of righteousness remained among them: and illicit unions took place upon the earth, since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled.”




Justin Marty wrote in his Second Apology
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0127.htm

“But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and the punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they were enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate deeds, and all wickedness. Whence also the poets and mythologists, not knowing that it was the angels and those demons who had been begotten by them that did these things to men, and women, and cities, and nations, which they related, ascribed them to god himself, and to those who were accounted to be his very offspring, and to the offspring of those who were called his brothers, Neptune and Pluto, and to the children again of these their offspring. For whatever name each of the angels had given to himself and his children, by that name they called them“.

Justin Marty Second Apology
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 05:23:02 AM by Jude1:3 »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 11:57:41 AM »
The breeding of "daughters of men" by "sons of God" is also in Genesis, but the idea this is the definitive origin of all Satan's angels seems very weak to me.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 01:08:34 PM »
Some discussion of the "Sons of God," the Nephilim, etc, with some patristic citations, here.

It doesn't look like we can say orthodoxy has any one authoritative teaching about this.
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 02:55:29 PM »
Quote
since angels were united with the daughters of the race of mankind; and they bore to them sons who for their exceeding greatness were called giants. And the angels brought as presents to their wives teachings of wickedness, in that they brought them the virtues of roots and herbs, dyeing in colours and cosmetics, the discovery of rare substances, love-potions, aversions, amours, concupiscence, constraints of love, spells of bewitchment, and all sorcery and idolatry hateful to God; by the entry of which things into the world evil extended and spread, while righteousness was diminished and enfeebled.
But is the book of enoch to be understood as fallen angels poping up in physical/material form, taking up wifes and having children from them or as mankind merging its natural will and energy with the will of the demons, resulting in perverted generation of people who devoured each other with their wickedness and forbidden arts ?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 02:57:54 PM by Vanhyo »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 03:35:53 PM »
Watch Darren Aronofsky's Noah movie for the truth.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Origin Of Demons
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 03:57:41 PM »
It doesn't look like we can say orthodoxy has any one authoritative teaching about this.

Accurate for most subjects... I might substitute the line for a "selam" at the end of my posts.
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