Poll

What service should Mor attend on Monday evening, 14 August?

Vigil for Dormition (Vespers, Matins)
6 (17.1%)
Hierarchical Great Vespers and the Lamentations for Dormition
18 (51.4%)
Vesperal Divine Liturgy
2 (5.7%)
Mor should read whatever service he wants at home in front of his icons because the faithful are not worthy of his presence in their churches
4 (11.4%)
Don't bother going to church, Mor
5 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Author Topic: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision  (Read 799 times)

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Online Mor Ephrem

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Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« on: August 12, 2017, 02:53:55 PM »
(A small part of) My spiritual life is in your hands.
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Dominika

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 03:03:16 PM »
I voted for "Hierarchical Great Vespers and the Lamentations for Dormition"
Because it's actually an extended version of the first option (Vespers plus Lamentations being put into the Matins, I suppose).
Not because of  "hierarchical", but Lamentations are a beautiful service, especially dones before this feast; on the day of the feast you can feel it's a real "Summer Pascha".
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 03:38:59 PM »
I played the devil's advocate, hoping that you would fall for reverse psychology and go to church doubly hard.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 03:59:03 PM »
Lamentations!
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2017, 04:52:08 PM »
The correct answer is not yet winning.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2017, 10:43:32 PM »
We had a parish priest back home that kinda hated these Dormition lamentation. They are anyways inferior and ii nepierdut compared to their model.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2017, 11:32:39 PM »
We had a parish priest back home that kinda hated these Dormition lamentation. They are anyways inferior and ii nepierdut compared to their model.

The Typikon of the Great Church of the Christ says they are inelegant and forbids their use.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2017, 11:50:02 PM »
We had a parish priest back home that kinda hated these Dormition lamentation. They are anyways inferior and ii nepierdut compared to their model.

The Typikon of the Great Church of the Christ says they are inelegant and forbids their use.

Plot twist: the church offering that service is stavropegial (EP). 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2017, 11:50:58 PM »
We had a parish priest back home that kinda hated these Dormition lamentation. They are anyways inferior and ii nepierdut compared to their model.

The Typikon of the Great Church of the Christ says they are inelegant and forbids their use.

Plot twist: the church offering that service is stavropegial (EP).

Interesting. 
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 12:42:47 AM »
I've never even heard of Dormition lamentations. Any historical background to it? Is it only used in certain places?

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 12:58:24 AM »
Rachel wants to read in bed.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2017, 07:31:57 AM »
I've never even heard of Dormition lamentations. Any historical background to it? Is it only used in certain places?

You can read about it here: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/08/lamentations-of-theotokos-in-worship.html

It's popular service in Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Romania, among Arabs, I suppose in Albania too.
It's sometimes served among Eastern Slavs. This year it's going to be served first time at my parish (but, unfortunately, according to the old calendar) - in Polish Church only some parishes serve it, and rather not on the vigil, but on the 3rd day of the Dormition. Such practice doesn't make sense for me, since the serivce is very paralle to Great Saturday Matins, and Dormition is called "Summer Pascha", so how lamentations and sadness and reflection of the Great Saturday can be on the 3rd day of Pascha?...
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 06:00:23 PM »
This year it's going to be served first time at my parish (but, unfortunately, according to the old calendar) - in Polish Church only some parishes serve it, and rather not on the vigil, but on the 3rd day of the Dormition. Such practice doesn't make sense for me, since the serivce is very paralle to Great Saturday Matins, and Dormition is called "Summer Pascha", so how lamentations and sadness and reflection of the Great Saturday can be on the 3rd day of Pascha?...

Maybe it's connected with the tradition that the apostles visited her tomb on the third day after her death and saw it was empty?  There are different layers of symbolism that probably do not mesh neatly, but it is a recent innovation.  ;)
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2017, 09:04:30 PM »
This year it's going to be served first time at my parish (but, unfortunately, according to the old calendar) - in Polish Church only some parishes serve it, and rather not on the vigil, but on the 3rd day of the Dormition. Such practice doesn't make sense for me, since the serivce is very paralle to Great Saturday Matins, and Dormition is called "Summer Pascha", so how lamentations and sadness and reflection of the Great Saturday can be on the 3rd day of Pascha?...

Maybe it's connected with the tradition that the apostles visited her tomb on the third day after her death and saw it was empty?  There are different layers of symbolism that probably do not mesh neatly, but it is a recent innovation.  ;)

Ah! So the Oriental Orthodox tradition differs how?
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 01:11:30 AM »
So, what did you end up doing?
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 04:27:08 AM »
This year it's going to be served first time at my parish (but, unfortunately, according to the old calendar) - in Polish Church only some parishes serve it, and rather not on the vigil, but on the 3rd day of the Dormition. Such practice doesn't make sense for me, since the serivce is very paralle to Great Saturday Matins, and Dormition is called "Summer Pascha", so how lamentations and sadness and reflection of the Great Saturday can be on the 3rd day of Pascha?...

Maybe it's connected with the tradition that the apostles visited her tomb on the third day after her death and saw it was empty?  There are different layers of symbolism that probably do not mesh neatly, but it is a recent innovation.  ;)

Ah! So the Oriental Orthodox tradition differs how?

OOs don't have tradition of Lamentations diveded on 3 stations, neitehr on Holy Saturday nor on Dormition. It's a typical Byzantine rite thing. Well, some pieces of Great Saturday lamentations may be chanted by Copts or Maronites, because of Holy Week album recored by Fairuz ;)
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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 09:29:58 AM »
We do offer optional lamentations for marriage...
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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 11:08:22 AM »
We do offer optional lamentations for marriage...

You got a link to those?
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2017, 08:59:19 PM »
I was joking... :P
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2017, 09:50:01 PM »
So, what did you end up doing?

I ended up going to Vigil.  Turns out my aunt had had some medical procedure and had some complications, so it was easier to go to the Vigil near her house than to drive around like a crazy person. 

Next year (or in six days?) in Jerusalem Astoria! 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2017, 09:50:19 PM »
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2017, 09:56:37 PM »
So, what did you end up doing?

I ended up going to Vigil.  Turns out my aunt had had some medical procedure and had some complications, so it was easier to go to the Vigil near her house than to drive around like a crazy person. 

Next year (or in six days?) in Jerusalem Astoria!

Are you going to blog about it, Mor?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:56:57 PM by mcarmichael »
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

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"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2017, 11:13:39 PM »
We do offer optional lamentations for marriage...
:laugh:
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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2017, 11:14:43 PM »
So, what did you end up doing?

I ended up going to Vigil.  Turns out my aunt had had some medical procedure and had some complications, so it was easier to go to the Vigil near her house than to drive around like a crazy person. 

Next year (or in six days?) in Jerusalem Astoria!

Are you going to blog about it, Mor?

No.
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2017, 11:15:15 PM »
So, what did you end up doing?

I ended up going to Vigil.  Turns out my aunt had had some medical procedure and had some complications, so it was easier to go to the Vigil near her house than to drive around like a crazy person. 

Next year (or in six days?) in Jerusalem Astoria!
And your aunt in health!
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2017, 11:32:09 PM »

I ended up going to Vigil.  Turns out my aunt had had some medical procedure and had some complications, so it was easier to go to the Vigil near her house than to drive around like a crazy person. 

Next year (or in six days?) in Jerusalem Astoria!

Are you going to blog about it, Mor?

No.

If I said please? Or what if somebody else asked you? 
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:31:01 AM by mcarmichael »
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Help Mor Ephrem Make a Minor Life Decision
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2017, 11:58:11 PM »
So, what did you end up doing?

I ended up going to Vigil.  Turns out my aunt had had some medical procedure and had some complications, so it was easier to go to the Vigil near her house than to drive around like a crazy person. 

Next year (or in six days?) in Jerusalem Astoria!
And your aunt in health!

Thanks!  She'll be fine.  She had complications, but she's prone to melodrama so they were not as bad as the end-of-days description she gave us.
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).