Author Topic: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council  (Read 274 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« on: August 09, 2017, 10:00:56 PM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 10:03:06 PM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also dating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 10:15:44 PM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also dating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
Not being in lock step with the Phyletist Phanariots to kiss papist slippers of Rome-Old or New-nor signing blank checks nor declarations, we walk on the straight and narrow path of the Orthodox Church.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 10:24:43 PM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also stating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
Not being in lock step with the Phyletist Phanariots to kiss papist slippers of Rome-Old or New-nor signing blank checks nor declarations, we walk on the straight and narrow path of the Orthodox Church.

I notice you aren't answering the question directly. Did the OCA really play no role in the lead-up to Crete?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 11:24:21 PM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also stating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
Not being in lock step with the Phyletist Phanariots to kiss papist slippers of Rome-Old or New-nor signing blank checks nor declarations, we walk on the straight and narrow path of the Orthodox Church.

I notice you aren't answering the question directly. Did the OCA really play no role in the lead-up to Crete?
Doesn't matter. For one, I was talking for Antioch. As to the OCA, its signature was not asked for, making the documents non-Pan-Orthodox ab initio.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 11:46:05 PM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also stating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
Not being in lock step with the Phyletist Phanariots to kiss papist slippers of Rome-Old or New-nor signing blank checks nor declarations, we walk on the straight and narrow path of the Orthodox Church.

I notice you aren't answering the question directly. Did the OCA really play no role in the lead-up to Crete?
Doesn't matter. For one, I was talking for Antioch. As to the OCA, its signature was not asked for, making the documents non-Pan-Orthodox ab initio.

Bizarre. Why are you avoiding the question? What perceived debating advantage is in it for you?

The fact of the matter is the OCA was eagerly awaiting the Council and issued their own statements of how the meeting could benefit them (couched in altruistic terms, of course). As was the rest of the EO world. In the very event, a few backed out like angry children. Don't know why you're bent on so very cryptically rewriting history.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2017, 12:00:16 AM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also stating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
Not being in lock step with the Phyletist Phanariots to kiss papist slippers of Rome-Old or New-nor signing blank checks nor declarations, we walk on the straight and narrow path of the Orthodox Church.

I notice you aren't answering the question directly. Did the OCA really play no role in the lead-up to Crete?
Doesn't matter. For one, I was talking for Antioch. As to the OCA, its signature was not asked for, making the documents non-Pan-Orthodox ab initio.

Bizarre. Why are you avoiding the question? What perceived debating advantage is in it for you?

The fact of the matter is the OCA was eagerly awaiting the Council and issued their own statements of how the meeting could benefit them (couched in altruistic terms, of course). As was the rest of the EO world. In the very event, a few backed out like angry children. Don't know why you're bent on so very cryptically rewriting history.

What do you mean "by few?"  Russia alone represents more Orthodox Christians than the EP does.  ANd then there are Georgia, Bulgaria and  Antioch.  Also consider that Serbia only agreed to attend at the last minute and that there was dissension even from within the delegation  of the Church of Greece.

And also, the only one who sounds angry is you because other jurisdictions won't do the EP's bidding.  There were serious theological (Russia, Georgia, Bulgaria) and canonical (Antioch) issues for why those churches abstained from attending.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2017, 12:03:26 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.
God bless!

Offline Sam G

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2017, 12:05:33 AM »
No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
We didn't sign Crete.

So, that is why Archbishop Demetrios is Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Are you also stating you didn't sign documents leading up to Crete? Just curious exactly how out of step your jurisdiction is with the Orthodox Church. I didn't think it was that bad.
Not being in lock step with the Phyletist Phanariots to kiss papist slippers of Rome-Old or New-nor signing blank checks nor declarations, we walk on the straight and narrow path of the Orthodox Church.

I notice you aren't answering the question directly. Did the OCA really play no role in the lead-up to Crete?
Doesn't matter. For one, I was talking for Antioch. As to the OCA, its signature was not asked for, making the documents non-Pan-Orthodox ab initio.

Bizarre. Why are you avoiding the question? What perceived debating advantage is in it for you?

The fact of the matter is the OCA was eagerly awaiting the Council and issued their own statements of how the meeting could benefit them (couched in altruistic terms, of course). As was the rest of the EO world. In the very event, a few backed out like angry children. Don't know why you're bent on so very cryptically rewriting history.

What do you mean "by few?"  Russia alone represents more Orthodox Christians than the EP does.  ANd then there are Georgia, Bulgaria and  Antioch.  Also consider that Serbia only agreed to attend at the last minute and that there was dissension even from within the delegation  of the Church of Greece.

And also, the only one who sounds angry is you because other jurisdictions won't do the EP's bidding.  There were serious theological (Russia, Georgia, Bulgaria) and canonical (Antioch) issues for why those churches abstained from attending.

This. Writing off a significant portion of the Orthodox world as "a few angry children" is sure to make those with serious concerns about Crete feel much better. Was St. Mark of Ephesus the "angry child" of Florence?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 12:05:57 AM by Sam G »
"Vanity of vanities, said Ecclesiastes vanity of vanities, and all is vanity."

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2017, 12:49:53 AM »
Orthodox councils taking a look at minor jurisdictional details are Florence now? Get a grip.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 12:51:51 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 01:04:50 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete. 
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2017, 01:12:30 AM »
Orthodox councils taking a look at minor jurisdictional details are Florence now? Get a grip.

You really don't get it, do you?  Well, maybe I'm not intelligent enough to explain it so maybe you consider their point of view: http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/2016/06/a-dossier-on-qatar-issue.html  (numerous links to other  sites for you to read and ponder)
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2017, 02:28:06 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Samn!

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2017, 08:23:48 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.

Many participants in the preliminary talks have stated that the EP's moderators did not allow any real dialogue in those meetings and just pushed forward their own agenda over anyone's objections. This can be seen, for example, with the marriage document which was vetoed by two churches but still pressed forward by the EP, despite previous agreements about unanimity in setting the council's agenda. In the end, though, the documents from Crete were uneventful such that basically everyone seems to have tacitly agreed that the best way forward is to just forget about the whole thing.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2017, 08:44:29 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.

I don't think referring to the hierarchs of the Churches of Russia, Georgia, Bulgaria and Antioch as "you boys" is really appropriate.  They're not tearing HOly Orthodoxy apart, they're trying to keep it intact.  But, you're way past convincing so I'm going to stop trying.

And what funny math?  There are more Orthodox in Russia than the territories controlled by the EP. 
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2017, 11:20:51 AM »
The fact of the matter is the OCA was eagerly awaiting the Council and issued their own statements of how the meeting could benefit them (couched in altruistic terms, of course). As was the rest of the EO world. In the very event, a few backed out like angry children. Don't know why you're bent on so very cryptically rewriting history.

But why are some of you bent on making this anything bad, in the first place -- why can't it just be a process of brethren finding harmony? If we "smell" around cynically for scandal isn't healthy for us or the bishops. I really don't understand. I'm really disappointed.
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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2017, 11:23:24 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.

Many participants in the preliminary talks have stated that the EP's moderators did not allow any real dialogue in those meetings and just pushed forward their own agenda over anyone's objections. This can be seen, for example, with the marriage document which was vetoed by two churches but still pressed forward by the EP, despite previous agreements about unanimity in setting the council's agenda. In the end, though, the documents from Crete were uneventful such that basically everyone seems to have tacitly agreed that the best way forward is to just forget about the whole thing.

At least we got some good Youtube videos out of it!
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2017, 12:18:52 PM »
Bizarre. Why are you avoiding the question? What perceived debating advantage is in it for you?
I answered the question directly with the facts.
The fact of the matter is the OCA was eagerly awaiting the Council and issued their own statements of how the meeting could benefit them (couched in altruistic terms, of course). As was the rest of the EO world. In the very event, a few backed out like angry children. Don't know why you're bent on so very cryptically rewriting history.
I'm recording just the facts. Not the Phanar's fantasies-the product of an upstart's anger at their senile assertions of arrogance not being taken seriously.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Sam G

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2017, 12:20:29 PM »
Orthodox councils taking a look at minor jurisdictional details are Florence now? Get a grip.

I'm not the one who insulted 4 local churches by comparing them to children.
"Vanity of vanities, said Ecclesiastes vanity of vanities, and all is vanity."

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2017, 12:26:40 PM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.
Funny math? You mean, dioceses with actual faithful that count, instead of the multiplication of titles to dead sees?

Not the entire Orthodox world. The OCA was not invited.

Cutting off a gangrenous limb is not tearing apart the body, especially if the limb has swollen into thinking itself the head.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2017, 01:51:52 PM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.
Funny math? You mean, dioceses with actual faithful that count, instead of the multiplication of titles to dead sees?

Not the entire Orthodox world. The OCA was not invited.

Cutting off a gangrenous limb is not tearing apart the body, especially if the limb has swollen into thinking itself the head.

Did or did not the OCA involve herself in the lead up to the Council? What are you trying to hide and why by refusing to answer?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2017, 09:48:01 PM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?
I'm not playing any game. I'm not really a big fan of church politics, but I don't think the EP did himself or the Church at large any favors with how things went down in Crete. If you're going to call yourself the boss, you have to take the blame when stuff goes wrong.
God bless!

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2017, 10:18:09 PM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?
I'm not playing any game. I'm not really a big fan of church politics, but I don't think the EP did himself or the Church at large any favors with how things went down in Crete. If you're going to call yourself the boss, you have to take the blame when stuff goes wrong.

That patriarchate was the hosting organization. Fascinating -- just fascinating -- how some of you folks suddenlty aren't Orthodox as soon as their starts to be a little squabbling. Every major jurisdiction in the world was releasing things for years leading up to this. Then a couple of jurisdictions got cold feet in the event -- and you here want us to say ( a ) they're heroes (people who can't man up and be brethren are never Christian heroes -- that's Confederacy-level thinking) and ( b ) one patriarchate of the whole Church is some kind of super-villain (as tho the actual difficulties weren't various, widespread, and longstanding). I'm glad you folks who roundly promote these views are just the kooks in the woodwork who like to smell the stink of imaginary trouble. Eastern Orthodoxy in fact is moving along as well as ever and looks to thrive in spite of all the expected hurdles such as squabbling between secular states. As indeed pleases the Holy Spirit of God. So, again, please evaluate the spirit that's in you.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2017, 10:23:38 PM »
Look, I see what's going on here with some posters -- who are OCA or Antiochian -- and I'm sorry you boys didn't get to play along. Better luck next time. However, the mature thing to do would be to mirror the statements of your synods, rather than brew up hysterical conspiracies on the 'net and defame men of God.
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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 11:57:26 PM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.
Funny math? You mean, dioceses with actual faithful that count, instead of the multiplication of titles to dead sees?

Not the entire Orthodox world. The OCA was not invited.

Cutting off a gangrenous limb is not tearing apart the body, especially if the limb has swollen into thinking itself the head.

Did or did not the OCA involve herself in the lead up to the Council? What are you trying to hide and why by refusing to answer?
I answered. That you and your ethnarchs do not like the facts, nor their claims being weighed and found wanting, does not change that.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2017, 12:06:52 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?

What game?  Looking at hard numbers, only a fraction (not even half) of the Orthodox world was at Crete.

Putting your funny math aside, in which the MP becomes Legion, the fact is the entire Eastern Orthodox world was involved for years leading up to that fine council and continues to commune and dialog. These attempts to tear apart the Body of Christ is of the Evil One. You boys need to get yourselves adjusted.
Funny math? You mean, dioceses with actual faithful that count, instead of the multiplication of titles to dead sees?

Not the entire Orthodox world. The OCA was not invited.

Cutting off a gangrenous limb is not tearing apart the body, especially if the limb has swollen into thinking itself the head.

Did or did not the OCA involve herself in the lead up to the Council? What are you trying to hide and why by refusing to answer?
I answered. That you and your ethnarchs do not like the facts, nor their claims being weighed and found wanting, does not change that.

You didn't that I can see. You just said "The OCA was not invited," which addresses not at all what their role was in the years leading up to Crete. I have a very clear recollection of a letter the OCA circulated, that I won't call opportunistic but rather full of brotherly hope, that implied the upcoming Council could set themselves at the head of a unified American Orthodoxy. Don't be coy; it's not your personality.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2017, 12:23:08 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?
I'm not playing any game. I'm not really a big fan of church politics, but I don't think the EP did himself or the Church at large any favors with how things went down in Crete. If you're going to call yourself the boss, you have to take the blame when stuff goes wrong.

That patriarchate was the hosting organization. Fascinating -- just fascinating -- how some of you folks suddenlty aren't Orthodox as soon as their starts to be a little squabbling. Every major jurisdiction in the world was releasing things for years leading up to this. Then a couple of jurisdictions got cold feet in the event -- and you here want us to say ( a ) they're heroes (people who can't man up and be brethren are never Christian heroes -- that's Confederacy-level thinking) and ( b ) one patriarchate of the whole Church is some kind of super-villain (as tho the actual difficulties weren't various, widespread, and longstanding). I'm glad you folks who roundly promote these views are just the kooks in the woodwork who like to smell the stink of imaginary trouble. Eastern Orthodoxy in fact is moving along as well as ever and looks to thrive in spite of all the expected hurdles such as squabbling between secular states. As indeed pleases the Holy Spirit of God. So, again, please evaluate the spirit that's in you.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but clearly this is a very sensitive topic for you. I never said I wasn't Orthodox, or that anyone was a hero or a super villain. All that is simply from your imagination. I'm just saying that when you are the top guy and things go south, you are the guy responsible. It is your job to navigate the perilous waters and ensure everyone is on the same page. He didn't do that and things didn't turn out well. I'm not saying he is a bad guy, I'm just saying he messed up. Let's not blow this out of proportion and think that I'm calling down hell fire and brimstone on anyone.
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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2017, 08:57:39 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Above all, OOs weren't invited. Well, they were represented on low rank like observators, in the same way as e.g RCs :(
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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2017, 09:40:00 AM »
Look, I see what's going on here with some posters -- who are OCA or Antiochian -- and I'm sorry you boys didn't get to play along. Better luck next time. However, the mature thing to do would be to mirror the statements of your synods, rather than brew up hysterical conspiracies on the 'net and defame men of God.

I'm just curious if you owe the EP money or something and that's why you're so unwilling to actually see that there are LEGITIMATE reasons for why four major canonical churches who have a much greater flock and responsibility than the EP decided not to attend.  Or are you content with the EP acting in a manner that is anything but conciliar to churches that don't go along with his wishes.  HAH is still primus, but those other churches and bishops are still pares.
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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2017, 01:28:24 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Oh you're playing this game too, huh?
I'm not playing any game. I'm not really a big fan of church politics, but I don't think the EP did himself or the Church at large any favors with how things went down in Crete. If you're going to call yourself the boss, you have to take the blame when stuff goes wrong.

That patriarchate was the hosting organization. Fascinating -- just fascinating -- how some of you folks suddenlty aren't Orthodox as soon as their starts to be a little squabbling. Every major jurisdiction in the world was releasing things for years leading up to this. Then a couple of jurisdictions got cold feet in the event -- and you here want us to say ( a ) they're heroes (people who can't man up and be brethren are never Christian heroes -- that's Confederacy-level thinking) and ( b ) one patriarchate of the whole Church is some kind of super-villain (as tho the actual difficulties weren't various, widespread, and longstanding). I'm glad you folks who roundly promote these views are just the kooks in the woodwork who like to smell the stink of imaginary trouble. Eastern Orthodoxy in fact is moving along as well as ever and looks to thrive in spite of all the expected hurdles such as squabbling between secular states. As indeed pleases the Holy Spirit of God. So, again, please evaluate the spirit that's in you.

They got COLD FEET after the secret documents of the preliminary meetings were finally revealed, and it was allowed for bishops to actually READ IT. The entire orthodox world could see them and read them at last, and it left much to be desired. It was shameful of them to hide them till the final hour.

The council was a disaster, and it is on the hands of the EP, who refused to consider the objections of Antioch, or the other Churches in POSTPONING THE COUNCIL, which does only good.

But the EP would have none of this, and decided that instead push aside the other churches, and make a mockery of the Church. They had the goal of showing inter-Orthodox unity with this council, and they couldn't even manage that, and it is through the mismanagement of the host.


Today in Greece, they ram it down the throats. There are schisms, recently yet another monastery has ceased commemorating their bishop, and they are being most forcefully evicted. This council is creating schisms and they continue to ram it down thinking it will go the same way as the calendar implementation. 

The council only represented around 30% of all Orthodox Christians. Those that rejected to attend the council far outnumber those that attended.

The idea that Primates are to now be an elite "class" of bishops in councils which they alone get voting rights in the final decision is a power grab.


The EP must humble itself and either throw this council to the trash, or call a new council, where all bishops are invited, and all have an equal vote, and let there be no "preliminary meetings" for 100 years.
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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2017, 02:20:01 AM »

The EP must humble itself and either throw this council to the trash, or call a new council, where all bishops are invited, and all have an equal vote, and let there be no "preliminary meetings" for 100 years.

To that should be added, they have to be allowed more than 45 minutes per topic for discussion for anyone to take the discussion seriously.

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Re: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2017, 02:10:58 AM »
Only a very small percentage of Orthodoxy was represented at Crete, and of those that were, many of them weren't happy about it and now there are a bunch of priests and such that have stopped commemorating the EP.

Above all, OOs weren't invited. Well, they were represented on low rank like observators, in the same way as e.g RCs :(

+1

Also, the absence of the Serbians, Georgians and Bulgarians is a real problem.  The Council of Crete was a bit of a damp squib; it failed to accomplish anything, but it cost a fortune.

I think Alexandria or Romania should organize the next council.  Both churches tried very hard to get all of the autocephalous churches to attend in Crete, without success.

All autocephalous churches can convene a synod; the Patriarch of Jerusalem convened the Synod of Dositheus, which sets an important precedent. 

Antioch and Jerusalem might attend a synod organized by Alexandria, and the subject of reconciliation of the two sees could be made a priority item. 

The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria, about 1000-1200 years ago IIRC, resolved a schism involving two Patriarchates (one of which I think was Constantinople), and thus they were granted the honorific "Judge of the Universe.")

Egypt is a bit unsafe, but I think the Sisi regime would protect the council.  Or the council could meet in South Africa, or Ghana, or Kenya, or another majority Christian country, perhaps even Ethiopia.

Actually I quite like the thought of that.  Full communication between the disparate Oriental churches was reestablisjed at the Council of Addis Ababa in the 1960s.  It would be a delight if OO-EO reunion happened at a Second Council of Addis Ababa, along with healing of the schisms between Antioch and Jerusalem and certain national churches whose autocephaly is not recognized, like Macedonia.
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