Author Topic: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good  (Read 1188 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« on: August 05, 2017, 01:25:09 PM »
I wish Archpriest Andrew had given it a different title, like Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy In Depth.  Whereas the original is essentially an index of non-Orthodox Christian communities and non-Christian religions, stating simply how they compare with Orthodoxy, the new work offers an extremely rich, detailed exploration of major contemporary heresies; the in depth exploration of Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism is superb.

I was afraid the unpleasant anti-OO material written by Nicholas Marinides on the O&H blog would lead to the inclusion of polemics attacking the Oriental churches, but this is not the case.  Indeed, the entire work is less polemical than its predecessor.   In many cases, it comes across as a potential road map for how Christians in a specific non-Orthodox category might find their way into the Orthodox Catholic Church and attain to the apostolic faith, for example, the section describing the Ancient Future movement in Evangelicalism.

What is more, Fr. Andrew denounces the tendency of Orthodox conwertsy to triumphally troll for Orthodoxy as ineffective and counter-productive; he correctly asserts that no one will be persuaded of the Orthodox faith through being harangued into it.   He clearly expresses the ecclesiastical function of polemics authored by the likes of St. Irenaeus or St. Epiphanius of Salamis as essentially internal documents for use within the church as a guard against heretical movements or influences, as opposed to being a tool for converting the heterodox.

The new work is substantially more refined than its predeccessor; it is also longer and less concise, something which does not concern me, but the original work in my opinion retains some value as a glossary of heterodoxy, whereas the new work is much more of a rebuttal.   The arguments Fr. Andrew uses are also in many cases electrifying; for example, he employs Richard Dawkins theory of memetics to explain the body of extra-scriptural teaching and practice in Pentecostalism, the Charismatic movement, and related movements; this works brilliantly, because clearly there is a lack of, indeed, an opposition to, the idea of tradition in most of those groups, while Memetics explains clearly how strange ideas like the notion that one must manifest speaking in tongues as a sign of salvation, and the propagation of strange practices such as being "slain in the spirit."
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Offline WPM

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 01:30:45 PM »
Is Sin Disorder something we all have and look to the church and God to be cured from?
Learn meditation.

Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 01:32:08 PM »
Good review Alpha, I'll have to add it to a wishlist for later. I wish the original was a bit more comprehensive, but this new edition seems to have addressed it.

One thing that bothered me was the word "retard" used in the original. I know Fr. Andrew doesn't use that word as an insult, but it was strange seeing it in the book.
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Offline WPM

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 01:40:00 PM »
If you believe in books publishing what you want to hear.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 02:33:24 PM »
It is used as a verb, Rob?

Thanks for the review and recommendation, Alpha!  I've listened to the original podcast series...a lot.
My reading list grows yet again.  ;)
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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 02:50:08 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 03:09:11 PM »
If you believe in books publishing what you want to hear.
LOL

It is used as a verb, Rob?
I don't know where my copy is at the moment, but I'd like to quote the section because my vague recollection it had something to do with God saving anyone including a retard. I'll try to find the text next week and post it.

Quote
My reading list grows yet again.  ;)
It never ends does it? ;D
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 03:19:51 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 03:20:30 PM by RobS »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »
It is used as a verb, Rob?
I don't know where my copy is at the moment, but I'd like to quote the section because my vague recollection it had something to do with God saving anyone including a retard. I'll try to find the text next week and post it.
Oh I see.  I think I remember the point he was making though; it had to do with poking holes in the "age of reason" doctrine evangelicals and baptists and such have.  Hearing him make that point was an epiphany at the time; I guess that overrode the diction in my mind.

My reading list grows yet again.  ;)
It never ends does it? ;D
Nope!  I really ought to discipline myself to work steadily through some of them.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 04:18:15 PM »
If you believe in books publishing what you want to hear.
LOL

It is used as a verb, Rob?
I don't know where my copy is at the moment, but I'd like to quote the section because my vague recollection it had something to do with God saving anyone including a retard. I'll try to find the text next week and post it.

Charming.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 04:46:12 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2017, 06:47:47 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.

Indeed.  I take it we are on the same page in wishing he had supplied the new work as an addendum to, rather than a replacement for, the original?
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Arachne

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 07:22:40 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.

Indeed.  I take it we are on the same page in wishing he had supplied the new work as an addendum to, rather than a replacement for, the original?

Obviously, the podcast lectures provided the book material, and it makes sense, once the material is out in paid form, not to leave a free version floating around. I just miss being able to direct people (who may not be great readers) to it. I hope there's an audiobook version forthcoming.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 05:21:02 PM »
Fr. Damick has a lot of talks relating to his book Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy on Ancient Faith Radio podcasts. You can here them here:
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

He has nice summaries of the other groups' views.

He has alot on Pentecostalism, about 5 different podcasts.

I am listening to "The Radical Reformation - Part 1b". The "Reformer's" theory of the "Great Apostasy" is curious. What attracts many to Orthodoxy is that it is the early Church. The Great Apostasy theory goes that under Constantine, if not before, the Church "apostasized" by taking in pagan customs like "Easter", supposedly. But that Reformed theory is a mistake, because already in the 1st and 2nd centuries we learn about the Quartodecimian controversy, which involved the dates when the apostles celebrated Easter.

Fr. Damick says that the Great Apostasy theory goes that the Church went into apostasy on the death of the apostles or else at the death of Constantine. He says that the Great Apostasy theory was put forth by the "Radical reformers", as opposed to Luther and Calvin.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 07:16:27 PM »
From the Podcast:
Pentecostalism - Part 2b
Quote
Even though Pentecostals tend to be very dedicated to the words of scripture, [they] are not textual, ie their faith and practice aren't derived from the scripture, rather they are derived from their practice and experience... Therefore I see Pentecostalism not so much as textual as viral.  In some ways it acts as a tradition but without the usual limits of tradition
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Offline asdamick

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 04:26:18 PM »
Good review Alpha, I'll have to add it to a wishlist for later. I wish the original was a bit more comprehensive, but this new edition seems to have addressed it.

One thing that bothered me was the word "retard" used in the original. I know Fr. Andrew doesn't use that word as an insult, but it was strange seeing it in the book.

Here's the sentence in the first edition (from the second chapter, on Roman Catholicism):
Quote
You can be a true theologian in the Orthodox Church and yet be mentally retarded, because true theology is not defined by the acuity of the rational mind, but by the quality of the prayer of the heart.

Here's the sentence in the second:
Quote
But you can be what the early Christian writer Evagrius considered a "true theologian" in the Orthodox Church and yet be intellectually disabled, because true theology is not defined by the acuity of the rational mind, but by the quality of the prayer of the heart.

I've never published anything with the phrase "a retard."  And I certainly didn't write anything having to do with "God saving anyone including a retard."

As I'm sure many of you know, "mentally retarded" was once the common medical term and still used fairly commonly (it's used liberally in this recent article, for instance).  I did change it, however, because a lot of folks consider "retarded" unacceptable now, and I didn't need the word to make my point.  I imagine "intellectually disabled" may someday suffer the same fate.  What matters to me, though, is that I am communicating.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 04:34:23 PM by asdamick »
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Books: "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" (2011/2017), "An Introduction to God" (2014), and "Bearing God" (2017) (all from Ancient Faith Publishing).

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Offline asdamick

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 04:31:06 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.

Indeed.  I take it we are on the same page in wishing he had supplied the new work as an addendum to, rather than a replacement for, the original?

I appreciate the sentiment, but what I set out to do with the 2017 edition really was to replace the former versions.  I made some mistakes therein, and I wanted to fix that, as well of course expand things considerably.  And I didn't want to confuse people with essentially having a "vol. 2" version (do I have to buy both? what if I just have the second? etc.).  So that's why I opted to take the replacement approach.  You can read more about my reasoning in the preface to the 2nd edition.
The Very Rev. Archpriest Andrew Stephen Damick, Emmaus, Pennsylvania

Books: "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" (2011/2017), "An Introduction to God" (2014), and "Bearing God" (2017) (all from Ancient Faith Publishing).

Podcasts:  The Areopagus, Orthodoxy & Heterodoxy, Roads from Emmaus

Offline rakovsky

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2017, 04:44:55 PM »
Maybe a better word could be weak if mind, or uneducated, or lacking an education?
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Offline asdamick

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2017, 04:54:01 PM »
Maybe a better word could be weak if mind, or uneducated, or lacking an education?

That wasn't the point I was making, though.  I was talking about the place of reason in the Orthodox tradition as compared with Roman Catholicism, especially in terms of whether reason was required for one to be a "theologian."  That's related to but ultimately independent of education.  The point was that one could indeed have a low IQ (or however you want to put it) and be a "true theologian."  I think it's pretty clear from the context.

In any event, "intellectually disabled" (which is how I changed the phrase for the 2nd ed.) is now a fairly standard medical term.
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Books: "Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy" (2011/2017), "An Introduction to God" (2014), and "Bearing God" (2017) (all from Ancient Faith Publishing).

Podcasts:  The Areopagus, Orthodoxy & Heterodoxy, Roads from Emmaus

Offline rakovsky

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2017, 05:24:09 PM »
In one of the early writings, maybe the Clementine literature or in Jerome, the writer says that with God's power, simple people who were fishermen stumped the wise elders of Israel.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Alpha60

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2017, 07:57:04 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.

Indeed.  I take it we are on the same page in wishing he had supplied the new work as an addendum to, rather than a replacement for, the original?

I appreciate the sentiment, but what I set out to do with the 2017 edition really was to replace the former versions.  I made some mistakes therein, and I wanted to fix that, as well of course expand things considerably.  And I didn't want to confuse people with essentially having a "vol. 2" version (do I have to buy both? what if I just have the second? etc.).  So that's why I opted to take the replacement approach.  You can read more about my reasoning in the preface to the 2nd edition.

Father,

I have reached the point where I now agree with you and am inclined to set aside the older version.

Your new work is superb regardless in its detailed takedown of evangelicalism and pentecostalism.  I was really put off by the pure vitriol spewed on Hank Haanrgraaf when he joined the Orthodox Church earlier this year, from many evangelical sources, and your work offers insights into why that is.

I find myself wishing you would do a third edition which would keep everything from volume 2 but do a similiar deep dive into what drives people from a Christian background to convert to Islam or various Eastern religions such as Buddhism, or Atheism, a treatment constructed in the same way as your psycho-social deconstruction of the Pentecostal and Evangelical errors.  I would buy your book yet  again and for even more money if you added that!  ;)  Or if you wrote it as an appendix.  ;)

I also very much appreciated the irenic tone in the new volume and the discretion with which you approached the controversial issue of ecumenical reunion, which I support but which many Orthodox oppose.  It was very well done.

I am also delighted on your status as Archpriest, and I feel like the updated version reflects a deep personal humility and contains a hieratic dignity and gravitas; it is authoritative.

I do wish someone would take the Panarion of St. Epiphanius and St. John Damascene’s expansion thereof and add entries for all of the new religions, most of them very unpleasant, to pop into existence almost mycologically, since that time, and I had been looking at your book as being sort of that, but what I think you have managed to do with the new version is transcend the sort of Encyclopedia of Heresies model pioneered by St. Irenaeus and instead have produced a magisterial refutation of several specific religious delusions that in many cases cross denominational boundaries, including, most importantly, the idea of a “denomination,” that is to say, the Pietist normalization of heterodoxy.  It is more akin to certain ancient works refuting an individual heresy and presenting the truth in opposition to it, for example, the works of St. Athanasius against the Arians, which included De Incarnatione, which was a positive work which from the snippets of it I have read, I think your book An Introduction to God falls into that category.

I hope you had a blessed Thanksgiving and will have an even more blessed proper Thanksgiving innthe divine liturgy on Sunday and on your upcoming name day (hopefully you will get to serve the liturgy on the 30th?).  In the spring I have resolved to do a cross country road trip and God willing will stop in Emmaus.  Please pray for me, a sinner, and especially for my mother and her health.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 07:57:42 PM by Alpha60 »
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2017, 07:59:09 PM »
Oh, I will also grab a download of your book on St. Ignatius, Father, as I have always loved him, and it looks like a very special book.  Thank you for the writing.  :)
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2017, 09:11:37 PM »
I've never published anything with the phrase "a retard."  And I certainly didn't write anything having to do with "God saving anyone including a retard."

As I'm sure many of you know, "mentally retarded" was once the common medical term and still used fairly commonly (it's used liberally in this recent article, for instance).  I did change it, however, because a lot of folks consider "retarded" unacceptable now, and I didn't need the word to make my point.  I imagine "intellectually disabled" may someday suffer the same fate.  What matters to me, though, is that I am communicating.
Father bless! I hope you did not feel slighted when reading my post, I intended no harm. I think your revised sentence demonstrates your point more clearly. I wasn't offended when I read "mentally retarded" because I knew what you meant in context. It was just seeing that word that disturbed me (blame my PC upbringing). I understand it was a common medical term but I've always used it as slang. Again I knew what point you were making.

But Fr. Andrew thank you for your time and effort spent revising O&H. Your new book on St. Ignatius looks good too, so I'll have to get both soon.

Thanks for replying, and I apologize if my post irritated you.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 09:18:44 PM by RobS »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Salpy

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2017, 11:04:45 PM »
I wish Archpriest Andrew had given it a different title, like Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy In Depth.  Whereas the original is essentially an index of non-Orthodox Christian communities and non-Christian religions, stating simply how they compare with Orthodoxy, the new work offers an extremely rich, detailed exploration of major contemporary heresies; the in depth exploration of Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism is superb.

I was afraid the unpleasant anti-OO material written by Nicholas Marinides on the O&H blog would lead to the inclusion of polemics attacking the Oriental churches, but this is not the case.  Indeed, the entire work is less polemical than its predecessor.   In many cases, it comes across as a potential road map for how Christians in a specific non-Orthodox category might find their way into the Orthodox Catholic Church and attain to the apostolic faith, for example, the section describing the Ancient Future movement in Evangelicalism.

What is more, Fr. Andrew denounces the tendency of Orthodox conwertsy to triumphally troll for Orthodoxy as ineffective and counter-productive; he correctly asserts that no one will be persuaded of the Orthodox faith through being harangued into it.   He clearly expresses the ecclesiastical function of polemics authored by the likes of St. Irenaeus or St. Epiphanius of Salamis as essentially internal documents for use within the church as a guard against heretical movements or influences, as opposed to being a tool for converting the heterodox.

The new work is substantially more refined than its predeccessor; it is also longer and less concise, something which does not concern me, but the original work in my opinion retains some value as a glossary of heterodoxy, whereas the new work is much more of a rebuttal.   The arguments Fr. Andrew uses are also in many cases electrifying; for example, he employs Richard Dawkins theory of memetics to explain the body of extra-scriptural teaching and practice in Pentecostalism, the Charismatic movement, and related movements; this works brilliantly, because clearly there is a lack of, indeed, an opposition to, the idea of tradition in most of those groups, while Memetics explains clearly how strange ideas like the notion that one must manifest speaking in tongues as a sign of salvation, and the propagation of strange practices such as being "slain in the spirit."


I just read the new book on Kindle.  It was wonderful.  The chapter giving the history behind the Pentecostal movement was particularly eye-opening.

Thank you, Fr. Damick, for writing this book.


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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2017, 01:39:46 PM »
I wish Archpriest Andrew had given it a different title, like Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy In Depth.  Whereas the original is essentially an index of non-Orthodox Christian communities and non-Christian religions, stating simply how they compare with Orthodoxy, the new work offers an extremely rich, detailed exploration of major contemporary heresies; the in depth exploration of Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism is superb.

I was afraid the unpleasant anti-OO material written by Nicholas Marinides on the O&H blog would lead to the inclusion of polemics attacking the Oriental churches, but this is not the case.  Indeed, the entire work is less polemical than its predecessor.   In many cases, it comes across as a potential road map for how Christians in a specific non-Orthodox category might find their way into the Orthodox Catholic Church and attain to the apostolic faith, for example, the section describing the Ancient Future movement in Evangelicalism.

What is more, Fr. Andrew denounces the tendency of Orthodox conwertsy to triumphally troll for Orthodoxy as ineffective and counter-productive; he correctly asserts that no one will be persuaded of the Orthodox faith through being harangued into it.   He clearly expresses the ecclesiastical function of polemics authored by the likes of St. Irenaeus or St. Epiphanius of Salamis as essentially internal documents for use within the church as a guard against heretical movements or influences, as opposed to being a tool for converting the heterodox.

The new work is substantially more refined than its predeccessor; it is also longer and less concise, something which does not concern me, but the original work in my opinion retains some value as a glossary of heterodoxy, whereas the new work is much more of a rebuttal.   The arguments Fr. Andrew uses are also in many cases electrifying; for example, he employs Richard Dawkins theory of memetics to explain the body of extra-scriptural teaching and practice in Pentecostalism, the Charismatic movement, and related movements; this works brilliantly, because clearly there is a lack of, indeed, an opposition to, the idea of tradition in most of those groups, while Memetics explains clearly how strange ideas like the notion that one must manifest speaking in tongues as a sign of salvation, and the propagation of strange practices such as being "slain in the spirit."


I just read the new book on Kindle.  It was wonderful.  The chapter giving the history behind the Pentecostal movement was particularly eye-opening.

Thank you, Fr. Damick, for writing this book.

Indeed, the chapter on the Pentecostal movement gave me the chills.  Fr. Seraphim Rose warned that it was demonic, but the pure horror of it did not become apparent to me until I had read Fr. Andrew’s revised edition.  Prior to that, I frankly was more revolted by SDAs, Mormons, Stone-Campebellites and other 19th century Restorationists, but when you actually delve into Pentecostalism, it becomes fairly chilling, particularly in the Charismatic form that has tried to finagle its way even into the Orthodox Church.

In this book, Archpriest Andrew really turned a bright spotlight on some of the most dangerous heresies in Christianity, things which I had previously ignored or regarded as being less serious (for example, it was very easy to write off Pentecostals as silly people pretending to engage in glossolalia for the sake of their egos, but this notion fell short of describing the much darker reality which Fr. Andrew has illuminated).

I really do hope Fr. Andrew is at some point able to explore in similiar depths some of the other disturbing derangements of contemporary “spirituality” such as the mass conversions to Orientalist cults like the Hare Krishnas, and to Islam.  I suspect all of these are related beyond merely demonic activity, but rather, the complete diabolical scenario involves a dying and inadequete schismatic Western Christianity of mainline churches that broke away from the Orthodox failing to care for the spiritual needs of their parishioners, causing those people to seek out alternatives, such as Pentecostalism, or non-Christian religions like Islam or Buddhism, or to simply reject religion altogether and engage in unrestrained self-worship.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 01:47:12 PM by Alpha60 »
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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2017, 04:31:51 PM »
Alpha60, does this new edition of O&H cover Radical Orthodoxy and Emergent Church stuff?
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.