Author Topic: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good  (Read 455 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« on: August 05, 2017, 01:25:09 PM »
I wish Archpriest Andrew had given it a different title, like Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy In Depth.  Whereas the original is essentially an index of non-Orthodox Christian communities and non-Christian religions, stating simply how they compare with Orthodoxy, the new work offers an extremely rich, detailed exploration of major contemporary heresies; the in depth exploration of Evangelicalism and Pentecostalism is superb.

I was afraid the unpleasant anti-OO material written by Nicholas Marinides on the O&H blog would lead to the inclusion of polemics attacking the Oriental churches, but this is not the case.  Indeed, the entire work is less polemical than its predecessor.   In many cases, it comes across as a potential road map for how Christians in a specific non-Orthodox category might find their way into the Orthodox Catholic Church and attain to the apostolic faith, for example, the section describing the Ancient Future movement in Evangelicalism.

What is more, Fr. Andrew denounces the tendency of Orthodox conwertsy to triumphally troll for Orthodoxy as ineffective and counter-productive; he correctly asserts that no one will be persuaded of the Orthodox faith through being harangued into it.   He clearly expresses the ecclesiastical function of polemics authored by the likes of St. Irenaeus or St. Epiphanius of Salamis as essentially internal documents for use within the church as a guard against heretical movements or influences, as opposed to being a tool for converting the heterodox.

The new work is substantially more refined than its predeccessor; it is also longer and less concise, something which does not concern me, but the original work in my opinion retains some value as a glossary of heterodoxy, whereas the new work is much more of a rebuttal.   The arguments Fr. Andrew uses are also in many cases electrifying; for example, he employs Richard Dawkins theory of memetics to explain the body of extra-scriptural teaching and practice in Pentecostalism, the Charismatic movement, and related movements; this works brilliantly, because clearly there is a lack of, indeed, an opposition to, the idea of tradition in most of those groups, while Memetics explains clearly how strange ideas like the notion that one must manifest speaking in tongues as a sign of salvation, and the propagation of strange practices such as being "slain in the spirit."
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Offline WPM

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 01:30:45 PM »
Is Sin Disorder something we all have and look to the church and God to be cured from?
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Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 01:32:08 PM »
Good review Alpha, I'll have to add it to a wishlist for later. I wish the original was a bit more comprehensive, but this new edition seems to have addressed it.

One thing that bothered me was the word "retard" used in the original. I know Fr. Andrew doesn't use that word as an insult, but it was strange seeing it in the book.
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Offline WPM

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 01:40:00 PM »
If you believe in books publishing what you want to hear.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 02:33:24 PM »
It is used as a verb, Rob?

Thanks for the review and recommendation, Alpha!  I've listened to the original podcast series...a lot.
My reading list grows yet again.  ;)
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Offline Arachne

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 02:50:08 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 03:09:11 PM »
If you believe in books publishing what you want to hear.
LOL

It is used as a verb, Rob?
I don't know where my copy is at the moment, but I'd like to quote the section because my vague recollection it had something to do with God saving anyone including a retard. I'll try to find the text next week and post it.

Quote
My reading list grows yet again.  ;)
It never ends does it? ;D
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline RobS

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 03:19:51 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 03:20:30 PM by RobS »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »
It is used as a verb, Rob?
I don't know where my copy is at the moment, but I'd like to quote the section because my vague recollection it had something to do with God saving anyone including a retard. I'll try to find the text next week and post it.
Oh I see.  I think I remember the point he was making though; it had to do with poking holes in the "age of reason" doctrine evangelicals and baptists and such have.  Hearing him make that point was an epiphany at the time; I guess that overrode the diction in my mind.

My reading list grows yet again.  ;)
It never ends does it? ;D
Nope!  I really ought to discipline myself to work steadily through some of them.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 04:18:15 PM »
If you believe in books publishing what you want to hear.
LOL

It is used as a verb, Rob?
I don't know where my copy is at the moment, but I'd like to quote the section because my vague recollection it had something to do with God saving anyone including a retard. I'll try to find the text next week and post it.

Charming.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 04:46:12 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2017, 06:47:47 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.

Indeed.  I take it we are on the same page in wishing he had supplied the new work as an addendum to, rather than a replacement for, the original?
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Arachne

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 07:22:40 PM »
I was sad to see the original podcast series go, though. I've been following it for ages and have saved everything, but I wish I could still point people to it.
Edit: It's still up on AFR: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

Yeah, that's the second series. Excellent as usual, of course.

Indeed.  I take it we are on the same page in wishing he had supplied the new work as an addendum to, rather than a replacement for, the original?

Obviously, the podcast lectures provided the book material, and it makes sense, once the material is out in paid form, not to leave a free version floating around. I just miss being able to direct people (who may not be great readers) to it. I hope there's an audiobook version forthcoming.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 05:21:02 PM »
Fr. Damick has a lot of talks relating to his book Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy on Ancient Faith Radio podcasts. You can here them here:
http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

He has nice summaries of the other groups' views.

He has alot on Pentecostalism, about 5 different podcasts.

I am listening to "The Radical Reformation - Part 1b". The "Reformer's" theory of the "Great Apostasy" is curious. What attracts many to Orthodoxy is that it is the early Church. The Great Apostasy theory goes that under Constantine, if not before, the Church "apostasized" by taking in pagan customs like "Easter", supposedly. But that Reformed theory is a mistake, because already in the 1st and 2nd centuries we learn about the Quartodecimian controversy, which involved the dates when the apostles celebrated Easter.

Fr. Damick says that the Great Apostasy theory goes that the Church went into apostasy on the death of the apostles or else at the death of Constantine. He says that the Great Apostasy theory was put forth by the "Radical reformers", as opposed to Luther and Calvin.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The new Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is really good
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2017, 07:16:27 PM »
From the Podcast:
Pentecostalism - Part 2b
Quote
Even though Pentecostals tend to be very dedicated to the words of scripture, [they] are not textual, ie their faith and practice aren't derived from the scripture, rather they are derived from their practice and experience... Therefore I see Pentecostalism not so much as textual as viral.  In some ways it acts as a tradition but without the usual limits of tradition
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