Author Topic: Met. Joseph appoints Bishop Nicholas to lead Diocese of Miami and the South  (Read 1637 times)

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Offline Agabus

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From here:

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I would like to start this letter by thanking my dear brother His Grace Bishop Antoun for all the years of hard work in the Diocese of Miami and the Southeast. He touched all of our hearts with his dedication and support as he earned his gray hair: “Gray hair is a crown of glory; it is gained in a righteous life.” (Proverbs 16:31)

As you all know, His Grace has decided to retire this year. I have spent months thinking about the right person to guide the clergy and laity of the Diocese of Miami and the Southeast. After much contemplation and prayer, I have decided that His Grace Bishop Nicholas will be your bishop.

About Bishop Nicholas.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

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Does he become "Bishop of Miami and the South", or "A Bishop Resident in Miami and the South"?
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline scamandrius

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Does he become "Bishop of Miami and the South", or "A Bishop Resident in Miami and the South"?

Does "in" mean auxiliary? Is that what you're getting at?  I thought the synodal decree that all bishops under the Metroplitan here in the AANA being made auxiliary under former Met. PHILIP was rescinded.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 03:38:10 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.

Scamandrius understood what I was asking about, but this takes it to a whole new level. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Samn!

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No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.

Scamandrius understood what I was asking about, but this takes it to a whole new level.

This has actually been a real thing that the EP has been doing for years, calling non-EP bishops "the bishop in X" and claiming only their bishops are "of X"... They were very aggressive about pointing that out to the Antiochian metropolitan of Argentina (whose flock is at least 4x bigger than that of the Greek bishop in Buenos Aires) during one of the preparatory meetings for the Crete Meet.

Offline Porter ODoran

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No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.

Scamandrius understood what I was asking about, but this takes it to a whole new level.

This has actually been a real thing that the EP has been doing for years, calling non-EP bishops "the bishop in X" and claiming only their bishops are "of X"... They were very aggressive about pointing that out to the Antiochian metropolitan of Argentina (whose flock is at least 4x bigger than that of the Greek bishop in Buenos Aires) during one of the preparatory meetings for the Crete Meet.

Yeah no. It's a matter of negotiation. More parishioners might be one factor, but it's only one. But you can think of the Church as a Scorcese movie if that's your thing.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline kijabeboy03

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I didn't realize the Antiochian Orthodox metropolitans appointed their own auxiliary bishops - surely that's the Holy Synod's business, even if the faux dioceses really are just regional vicariates?
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline Alpha60

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I didn't realize the Antiochian Orthodox metropolitans appointed their own auxiliary bishops - surely that's the Holy Synod's business, even if the faux dioceses really are just regional vicariates?

The AOCNA is "Self-Ruled" by the Metropolitan, an arrangement dating from the reign of Metropolitan Philip of eternal memory.   My understanding is that, like other autonomous churches such as the Church of Finland, the Church of Japan and the Church of Sinai, when the Metropolitan dies the Holy Synod determines who will replace him.

Until that point however, the Metropolitan has full control over appointments, and in the last few years of Metropolitan Philip's tenure, the other bishops were effectively reduced to chorepiscopi; it is said that is no longer the case, but AOCNA is very centrally controlled.

I happen to love Metropolitan Philip, and Antioch is probably my favorite jurisdiction in the US, particularly the more ethnic parishes, as I enjoy the warmth and hospitality of Levantine Christians.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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Offline Porter ODoran

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What was Met. Phillip's background?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

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No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.

Scamandrius understood what I was asking about, but this takes it to a whole new level.

This has actually been a real thing that the EP has been doing for years, calling non-EP bishops "the bishop in X" and claiming only their bishops are "of X"... They were very aggressive about pointing that out to the Antiochian metropolitan of Argentina (whose flock is at least 4x bigger than that of the Greek bishop in Buenos Aires) during one of the preparatory meetings for the Crete Meet.

Yeah no. It's a matter of negotiation. More parishioners might be one factor, but it's only one. But you can think of the Church as a Scorcese movie if that's your thing.

It's a practice that is demeaning to the bishops of other churches which the EP otherwise remains in communion with; even if the EP's interpretation of Article 28 is ultimately proven correct, it seems to me that they should refer to the bishops of other Orthodox churches by the titles given them by those churches, if they are to remain in communion with those churches at all.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline scamandrius

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I didn't realize the Antiochian Orthodox metropolitans appointed their own auxiliary bishops - surely that's the Holy Synod's business, even if the faux dioceses really are just regional vicariates?

The AOCNA is "Self-Ruled" by the Metropolitan, an arrangement dating from the reign of Metropolitan Philip of eternal memory.   My understanding is that, like other autonomous churches such as the Church of Finland, the Church of Japan and the Church of Sinai, when the Metropolitan dies the Holy Synod determines who will replace him.

Until that point however, the Metropolitan has full control over appointments, and in the last few years of Metropolitan Philip's tenure, the other bishops were effectively reduced to chorepiscopi; it is said that is no longer the case, but AOCNA is very centrally controlled.

I happen to love Metropolitan Philip, and Antioch is probably my favorite jurisdiction in the US, particularly the more ethnic parishes, as I enjoy the warmth and hospitality of Levantine Christians.

To an extent that is true.  Met. JOSEPH is definitely instituting his own changes (many of which, as a chanter, I wholeheartedly welcome)  and I'm sure that it is rubbing some people who were in Met. PHILIP's camp the wrong way.  However, he didn't come into his position making changes left and right but did so gradually.   I see Met. JOSEPH as being complementary to Met. PHILIP but there are some who are still trying to come to grips with Met. PHILIP's death and the legacy. 

That said, the synodal decree was essentially reversed after then Archbishop JOSEPH and Bishop BASIL met with Holy Synod after the bishops were "reduced" in status to mere auxiliaries.  It was quite controversial.  Even my priest refused to go along with it and continued to commemorate Bishop BASIL during the Litanies.  But even before Met. PHILIP died, the bishops were again commemorated during the Liturgy. Now whether that essentially translates to their status to no longer being mere auxiliaries, I'm going to have to refer to a canon lawyer.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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No it's from the Council in Crete. Working toward pan-Orthodox system of titles whereby only one "of" in a geographical area regardless of number of jurisdictions present.

Scamandrius understood what I was asking about, but this takes it to a whole new level.

This has actually been a real thing that the EP has been doing for years, calling non-EP bishops "the bishop in X" and claiming only their bishops are "of X"... They were very aggressive about pointing that out to the Antiochian metropolitan of Argentina (whose flock is at least 4x bigger than that of the Greek bishop in Buenos Aires) during one of the preparatory meetings for the Crete Meet.

Yeah no. It's a matter of negotiation. More parishioners might be one factor, but it's only one. But you can think of the Church as a Scorcese movie if that's your thing.

It's a practice that is demeaning to the bishops of other churches which the EP otherwise remains in communion with; even if the EP's interpretation of Article 28 is ultimately proven correct, it seems to me that they should refer to the bishops of other Orthodox churches by the titles given them by those churches, if they are to remain in communion with those churches at all.

You're really jumping the gun.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline Alpha60

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

In 1965 he succeeded Metropolitan Anthony Bashir of eternal memory.   He had gone to seminary as a young boy; his father brought him with him when delivering a gift of grapes to the Patriarch, and the Patriarch asked the future Metropolitan to sing.  Impressed by his voice, he offered him a theological education, and thus His Eminence began a long and distinguished career as a monastic and as a leader of the Antiochian church.

I also greatly admire Metropolitan Anthony Bashir.  Both he and his successor had beautiful voices, and did quite a lot to make Orthodoxy more widely known and accepted as a denomination to which one might consider converting.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Porter ODoran

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Porter ODoran

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL.

One of these days. Doesn't OCA already have a few folksy American convert hierarchs?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline scamandrius

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Because everyone in the AANA is an EOC transplant, especially the ones with Arabic names.
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Offline scamandrius

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL.

One of these days. Doesn't OCA already have a few folksy American convert hierarchs?

There was Metropolitan JONAH and we see how well he was received. 
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Offline Porter ODoran

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Because everyone in the AANA is an EOC transplant, especially the ones with Arabic names.

"Philip" isn't specifically Arabic, at all.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline kijabeboy03

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Bizarre :-). Normally autonomous/"self-ruled" churches have local synods of their local bishops who elect bishosp to vacant dioceses. But in this case there's a local pope I guess :-). No criticism of Metropolitan Joseph - he was the auxiliary-turned-diocesan-turned-auxiliary-again of my home parish back in the day - but it doesn't strike one as a canonical system...

I didn't realize the Antiochian Orthodox metropolitans appointed their own auxiliary bishops - surely that's the Holy Synod's business, even if the faux dioceses really are just regional vicariates?

The AOCNA is "Self-Ruled" by the Metropolitan, an arrangement dating from the reign of Metropolitan Philip of eternal memory.   My understanding is that, like other autonomous churches such as the Church of Finland, the Church of Japan and the Church of Sinai, when the Metropolitan dies the Holy Synod determines who will replace him.

Until that point however, the Metropolitan has full control over appointments, and in the last few years of Metropolitan Philip's tenure, the other bishops were effectively reduced to chorepiscopi; it is said that is no longer the case, but AOCNA is very centrally controlled.

I happen to love Metropolitan Philip, and Antioch is probably my favorite jurisdiction in the US, particularly the more ethnic parishes, as I enjoy the warmth and hospitality of Levantine Christians.
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline scamandrius

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Because everyone in the AANA is an EOC transplant, especially the ones with Arabic names.

"Philip" isn't specifically Arabic, at all.

Saliba is.
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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL.

One of these days. Doesn't OCA already have a few folksy American convert hierarchs?

I guess it depends on how you define "folksy".  I would characterise them more or less as "American", which is a good thing in America.
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Mor Ephrem

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Because everyone in the AANA is an EOC transplant, especially the ones with Arabic names.

"Philip" isn't specifically Arabic, at all.

Saliba is.

 :-*
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Reader KevinAndrew

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography



Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Because everyone in the AANA is an EOC transplant, especially the ones with Arabic names.

"Philip" isn't specifically Arabic, at all.

His first name was Abdallah before he was ordained bishop. "Abdallah Saliba" is about as Arabic as you can get.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:54:21 PM by Reader KevinAndrew »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Thank you, Captain and Corporal Obvious.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography



Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Because everyone in the AANA is an EOC transplant, especially the ones with Arabic names.

"Philip" isn't specifically Arabic, at all.

His first name was Abdallah before he was ordained bishop. "Abdallah Saliba" is about as Arabic as you can get.

I did not know that about the late Metropolitan!

His homilies influenced me strongly to convert to Orthodoxy.  I also love the Antiochian church; Antioch and ROCOR are probably my favorite EO jurisdictions (and amusingly both have western rites, of which I am a big fan).  Please pray for me, a sinner.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Thank you, Captain and Corporal Obvious.
You're quite welcome. Any time. :)

Offline ialmisry

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL.

One of these days. Doesn't OCA already have a few folksy American convert hierarchs?

I guess it depends on how you define "folksy".  I would characterise them more or less as "American", which is a good thing in America.
"Folksy" is that like "ethnic", except in one's own homeland?

And what is an "EOC transplant"? Is that like a Hellenic mole?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL.

One of these days. Doesn't OCA already have a few folksy American convert hierarchs?

I guess it depends on how you define "folksy".  I would characterise them more or less as "American", which is a good thing in America.
"Folksy" is that like "ethnic", except in one's own homeland?

And what is an "EOC transplant"? Is that like a Hellenic mole?

EOC = the Evangelical "Orthodox Church." You know that, but some might not.

"Folksy" can mean several things, usually a condescending Boomer who finds "ethnic" faith quaint and the faith of converts without degrees from Stanford quainter.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 10:07:25 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline ialmisry

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What was Met. Phillip's background?

From the Antiochian website: http://antiochian.org/Metropolitan_Philip_Biography

Okay thank you that makes sense. I just wanted to exorcise a sneaking feeling that he was an EOC transplant.

Literal LOL.

One of these days. Doesn't OCA already have a few folksy American convert hierarchs?

I guess it depends on how you define "folksy".  I would characterise them more or less as "American", which is a good thing in America.
"Folksy" is that like "ethnic", except in one's own homeland?

And what is an "EOC transplant"? Is that like a Hellenic mole?

EOC = the Evangelical "Orthodox Church." You know that, but some might not.

"Folksy" can mean several things, usually a condescending Boomer who finds "ethnic" faith quaint and the faith of converts without degrees from Stanford quainter.
ah...and sanctimonious LARPERs...how quaint do such find it?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Dominika

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I have splited last posts that now are creating a new thread: Of/from - another discussion about the Crete Council in the Religious Topics section.

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