Author Topic: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life  (Read 6326 times)

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Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #360 on: August 04, 2017, 03:26:27 PM »
So both mor ephrem and Peter O'doran (the greatest prick on this forum) are unwilling to help me as soon as I ask seriously for it and pose some honest things?

Is this some "Gotcha!" moment?  You start out believing Christianity is evil and its practitioners are liars and then entrap them in a situation where they are exposed for the dishonest shams they are? 

You failed.  I mean, you're right that I'm a dishonest sham of a Christian, but not for the reasons you think. 

If you claim to be incapable of belief (and you do claim this), how can I explain belief to you?  How can I explain beliefs?  How can I explain what it means to believe in God and believe in beliefs about God? 

You're not ready to listen.  Even Jesus did not spend a lot of time talking to people who were not ready to listen.  Even Jesus could not heal people who didn't want it.  What can Mor Ephrem do?   
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline beebert

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #361 on: August 04, 2017, 03:27:53 PM »
Is there any other reason for becoming a Christian than the belief that it is true? Why have all of you decided to be Christians? This is a well meaning question that I am interested to understand
Love.

Amen.

And on a baser level, desire.

Neither Beethoven composing, nor Beebert using (God forbid) his pistol as he offers above (please drive yourself to a hospital if you're at all serious) solve the problem of human suffering; yet Beebert is drawn to them. They are non-answers to his overwhelming question about suffering, yet rather than resent them for that, he embraces them all the same. The difference between how he treats music and Scripture may seem arbitrary and sophistical, but it makes sense to him because it is what he desires.
Why should I resent music? What is your view on music?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #362 on: August 04, 2017, 03:30:09 PM »
Is there any other reason for becoming a Christian than the belief that it is true? Why have all of you decided to be Christians? This is a well meaning question that I am interested to understand
Love.

Amen.

And on a baser level, desire.

Neither Beethoven composing, nor Beebert using (God forbid) his pistol as he offers above (please drive yourself to a hospital if you're at all serious) solve the problem of human suffering; yet Beebert is drawn to them. They are non-answers to his overwhelming question about suffering, yet rather than resent them for that, he embraces them all the same. The difference between how he treats music and Scripture may seem arbitrary and sophistical, but it makes sense to him because it is what he desires.
Why should I resent music? What is your view on music?

If you hate Christianity for supposedly not solving the problem of human suffering, then logically you shouldn't love Beethoven for the same failure.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #363 on: August 04, 2017, 03:31:37 PM »
You know, maybe he's one of these chaps that harvests "gold" from Christian forum threads to post in the atheist forums that promote doing that.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline WPM

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #364 on: August 04, 2017, 03:33:20 PM »
I don't know . . . I'm at my mom's house in Texas.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #365 on: August 04, 2017, 03:34:25 PM »
I don't know . . . I'm at my mom's house in Texas.

Good for you. You know, this sounds so wholesome. In Texas. At Mom's. Looking out at the hot plains and eating something good.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #366 on: August 04, 2017, 03:40:17 PM »
So IMO, christianity is dishonest when it calls creation good considering that eternal suffering for the multitude is inevitable.

And yet, beebert is not dishonest when he calls creation (e.g., literature, music, philosophy, or generally whatever he thinks is great) good, even while "considering that eternal suffering for the multitude is inevitable".  If Christianity cannot solve eternal suffering, certainly Beethoven can't.  But he is to be preferred over "Jewish epileptics" in beebert's world, even though children are being raped while Beethoven's 7th is playing on the radio in that world.   

Yours is a pure delusion.
Is your advice for me to kill myself?

Never.  My advice would be for you to seek medical care and counseling because you are not in a good or healthy place at all.  If you in such a good and healthy place and decided Christianity was not for you, I might disagree but would wish you all the best because I appreciate how difficult it is to live according to its teachings and sometimes I find myself wanting to escape.  But in your condition, the only decision you should be making is to listen to a physician's instructions. 

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Because as I said, this hope would exist in a world without eternal hell if suffering would be found impossible to endure. But in christianity as Said, this hope is eliminated and only Faith can save one from inevitable torment that never ends. But I cant Believe. So... What would you do? Find relief in Beethoven or take the pistol and stop waiting for hell But instead embrace it immediately?

What is "belief" to you?  What is "believing"?
I have been at a psychiatrical hospital for 2 weeks even with daily care. It doesnt answer my life questions nor solves the agony arising from it... I have taken medication; no difference, etc.

You don't take the medication and go through the therapy to answer your life's questions. 

Quote
Belief is trust. To trust in Christ and to have the internal movements in the soul that makes it possible for you to be a follower of him and to practice his commands... There is much to be said here, but it is the opposite of despair.

If belief is trust--and you are right about that--is your claim that you are incapable of trusting Christ? 

If the answer to that is "yes", then it seems to me you should find peace in accepting that truth about yourself and just move on, whether to belief in some other deity or none at all or Sunday Mornings with Beethoven or whatever. 

You are very clear in these threads about how Christianity is evil, but you have yet to answer the question of why you don't just move on from it.
I am 190 percent incapable of trusting Christ, but I CANT move on even if I want to, since it means I will go to hell. Because I can't trust, yet like a demon I believe he was who he claimed to be.

So that is Why I can't move on. And in Scripture I find a Christ who must enable me to trust him, and who yet Condemns me if I dont Believe. And I find in myself a wish to have faith, but a complete inability to have faith. So what is the reason then? Election...? predestination? Am I lying to myself? Why would I want to lie myself to hell when I really feel the Lost of God in my life. This is why Christianity seems evil to me. I came Into existence without having a say in the matter, I suffered, I longed for redemption and searched but found no God
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #367 on: August 04, 2017, 03:49:40 PM »
Can someone please offer their views om this :
Here comes a very important thing for me that I would like to see the view on of as many as possible:
This is a great part of why my whole critique about christianity is resting on many of the words of Paul: What do we find in Christ? The son of God, God incarnate who become crucified, mocked, beaten, tortured etc. Now Jesus came to show the face of God, right(He who has seen me has seen the Father)? He came to free the oppressed and poor etc. And he did all this in weakness. He was weak, powerless, suffering, poor, an outcast etc. And he was the image of God. To me that suggests Only one thing: God is all These things. He is not powerful in the way that has been suggested in Christian theology. The Only way he has power is in his weakness, love, suffering etc. This IS God and Christ.

Where do you get these ideas from?  You talk about finding them in Christ, but Christ never wrote much, and the four Gospels were written after Paul wrote and taught many of the things you wrote above. 

Quote
But from Paul onwards, God is this all-powerful and ruling Other, that only takes the ROLE of being an outcast, a sufferer, a weak man who gets crucified, while in reality being a ruling King, a judge with absolute power. This I find untenable.

What's untenable is your misunderstanding.  Read, for example, Philippians 2.5-11: Christ is not an actor in a terrestrial drama, when he empties himself and takes the form of a servant, it's not just a role and it's not just a costume.  He really is born in the likeness of men. 

God as "all-powerful and ruling Other...a weak man who gets crucified, while in reality being a ruling King" is not some random Pauline theology. 

Read Matthew 16.13-17.13.  When Peter confessed Jesus as "Christ, the Son of the Living God", Jesus said that the truth of that confession was revealed to him by the Father.  When he deviated from fulness of the revelation upon hearing of the death and resurrection of this Son of God, Christ forcefully called him back to the correct confession which came from God, not from man's imagination and thought.  Soon after, he saw Christ transfigured on the mountain, divine light shining from within him, demonstrating his dominion over life and death by summoning Elijah and Moses to speak with him.  He even heard the Father's voice bear witness to Christ when they were overshadowed by the bright cloud (contrast with Exodus 20.21).

This is not some junk Paul cooked up, this is Paul (or Peter, or John, or really any of the authors) explaining who and what Christ is in light of his death and resurrection which reveals who and what he is.  The revelation is God's.   
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #368 on: August 04, 2017, 03:51:40 PM »
I am 190 percent incapable of trusting Christ, but I CANT move on even if I want to, since it means I will go to hell. Because I can't trust, yet like a demon I believe he was who he claimed to be.

So you believe in hell? 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline beebert

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #369 on: August 04, 2017, 03:59:33 PM »
I am 190 percent incapable of trusting Christ, but I CANT move on even if I want to, since it means I will go to hell. Because I can't trust, yet like a demon I believe he was who he claimed to be.

So you believe in hell?
I think it is a high probability that christianity is true yes
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline beebert

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #370 on: August 04, 2017, 04:06:16 PM »
Can someone please offer their views om this :
Here comes a very important thing for me that I would like to see the view on of as many as possible:
This is a great part of why my whole critique about christianity is resting on many of the words of Paul: What do we find in Christ? The son of God, God incarnate who become crucified, mocked, beaten, tortured etc. Now Jesus came to show the face of God, right(He who has seen me has seen the Father)? He came to free the oppressed and poor etc. And he did all this in weakness. He was weak, powerless, suffering, poor, an outcast etc. And he was the image of God. To me that suggests Only one thing: God is all These things. He is not powerful in the way that has been suggested in Christian theology. The Only way he has power is in his weakness, love, suffering etc. This IS God and Christ.

Where do you get these ideas from?  You talk about finding them in Christ, but Christ never wrote much, and the four Gospels were written after Paul wrote and taught many of the things you wrote above. 

Quote
But from Paul onwards, God is this all-powerful and ruling Other, that only takes the ROLE of being an outcast, a sufferer, a weak man who gets crucified, while in reality being a ruling King, a judge with absolute power. This I find untenable.

What's untenable is your misunderstanding.  Read, for example, Philippians 2.5-11: Christ is not an actor in a terrestrial drama, when he empties himself and takes the form of a servant, it's not just a role and it's not just a costume.  He really is born in the likeness of men. 

God as "all-powerful and ruling Other...a weak man who gets crucified, while in reality being a ruling King" is not some random Pauline theology. 

Read Matthew 16.13-17.13.  When Peter confessed Jesus as "Christ, the Son of the Living God", Jesus said that the truth of that confession was revealed to him by the Father.  When he deviated from fulness of the revelation upon hearing of the death and resurrection of this Son of God, Christ forcefully called him back to the correct confession which came from God, not from man's imagination and thought.  Soon after, he saw Christ transfigured on the mountain, divine light shining from within him, demonstrating his dominion over life and death by summoning Elijah and Moses to speak with him.  He even heard the Father's voice bear witness to Christ when they were overshadowed by the bright cloud (contrast with Exodus 20.21).

This is not some junk Paul cooked up, this is Paul (or Peter, or John, or really any of the authors) explaining who and what Christ is in light of his death and resurrection which reveals who and what he is.  The revelation is God's.
So when you say Christ is in man's likeness like you Said here, do you mean that he IS eternally the crucified and resurrected too? Is he the like man in man's weakness or as man was before the fall? Would this apply to thé father too? Is he too as weak as Christ appears in the gospels when he gets senrenced to death?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Alpha60

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #371 on: August 04, 2017, 05:07:38 PM »
You know, maybe he's one of these chaps that harvests "gold" from Christian forum threads to post in the atheist forums that promote doing that.

I have seen that.  Atheist trolls who create sock accounts on our sites and then copy pasta what we say for what they call "comic gold."  Usually these are encountered on creationalist or fundamentalist websites; I havent seen them go after the Orthodox much.
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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #372 on: August 04, 2017, 05:09:31 PM »
I don't know . . . I'm at my mom's house in Texas.

Good for you. You know, this sounds so wholesome. In Texas. At Mom's. Looking out at the hot plains and eating something good.

The main inhabited half of Texas looks more or less like the rest of the South.   The deserts of West Texas are disappointingly sparsely inhabited, and if memory serves, in Pecos, Texas, there wasnt a BBQ joint to be found.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #373 on: August 04, 2017, 05:12:34 PM »
Got to do your own cooking in Pecos, brother.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline WPM

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #374 on: August 04, 2017, 05:30:42 PM »
Expletive Removed --Mina you and your ill-willed advice.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:44:56 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline WPM

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #375 on: August 04, 2017, 05:44:16 PM »
I don't know . . . I'm at my mom's house in Texas.

Good for you. You know, this sounds so wholesome. In Texas. At Mom's. Looking out at the hot plains and eating something good.

The main inhabited half of Texas looks more or less like the rest of the South.   The deserts of West Texas are disappointingly sparsely inhabited, and if memory serves, in Pecos, Texas, there wasnt a BBQ joint to be found.

Not sure if I understand . . . There is a booming population in the IP address but nobody around.
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Offline WPM

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #376 on: August 04, 2017, 05:50:55 PM »
Can someone please offer their views om this :
Here comes a very important thing for me that I would like to see the view on of as many as possible:
This is a great part of why my whole critique about christianity is resting on many of the words of Paul: What do we find in Christ? The son of God, God incarnate who become crucified, mocked, beaten, tortured etc. Now Jesus came to show the face of God, right(He who has seen me has seen the Father)? He came to free the oppressed and poor etc. And he did all this in weakness. He was weak, powerless, suffering, poor, an outcast etc. And he was the image of God. To me that suggests Only one thing: God is all These things. He is not powerful in the way that has been suggested in Christian theology. The Only way he has power is in his weakness, love, suffering etc. This IS God and Christ.

Where do you get these ideas from?  You talk about finding them in Christ, but Christ never wrote much, and the four Gospels were written after Paul wrote and taught many of the things you wrote above. 

Quote
But from Paul onwards, God is this all-powerful and ruling Other, that only takes the ROLE of being an outcast, a sufferer, a weak man who gets crucified, while in reality being a ruling King, a judge with absolute power. This I find untenable.

What's untenable is your misunderstanding.  Read, for example, Philippians 2.5-11: Christ is not an actor in a terrestrial drama, when he empties himself and takes the form of a servant, it's not just a role and it's not just a costume.  He really is born in the likeness of men. 

God as "all-powerful and ruling Other...a weak man who gets crucified, while in reality being a ruling King" is not some random Pauline theology. 

Read Matthew 16.13-17.13.  When Peter confessed Jesus as "Christ, the Son of the Living God", Jesus said that the truth of that confession was revealed to him by the Father.  When he deviated from fulness of the revelation upon hearing of the death and resurrection of this Son of God, Christ forcefully called him back to the correct confession which came from God, not from man's imagination and thought.  Soon after, he saw Christ transfigured on the mountain, divine light shining from within him, demonstrating his dominion over life and death by summoning Elijah and Moses to speak with him.  He even heard the Father's voice bear witness to Christ when they were overshadowed by the bright cloud (contrast with Exodus 20.21).

This is not some junk Paul cooked up, this is Paul (or Peter, or John, or really any of the authors) explaining who and what Christ is in light of his death and resurrection which reveals who and what he is.  The revelation is God's.
So when you say Christ is in man's likeness like you Said here, do you mean that he IS eternally the crucified and resurrected too? Is he the like man in man's weakness or as man was before the fall? Would this apply to thé father too? Is he too as weak as Christ appears in the gospels when he gets senrenced to death?

IMO . . .  Christianity is an answer to age-old moral dilemma of existence.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #377 on: August 04, 2017, 06:44:47 PM »
I dont find it Good news, because considering what you just said, the fact that God even created a world that would unfold in this way and, according to Christ's own words, a world where many Will inevitably be damnned (narrow is the gate etc.), is bad news. So IMO, christianity is dishonest when it calls creation good considering that eternal suffering for the multitude is inevitable. So left for me is to try to make a leap of faith for the sole reason that I fear punishment and dont want hell, but that again is dishonest and pathetic from my side.
Maybe look at it as not so much of leap of faith to avoid damnation but rather leap to life. Christ wants to give life abundantly and also give us rest, His burden is light. Christ is the narrow gate that leads to life. God does not want anyone to suffer eternally.
If God does not want that, why then did he create a world where the possibility is real, even probable for the majority if we believe the earliest christian writings?

Pretty darn curious how you cope with death. Every day brings you closer. Nobody asked to be born, but everybody has to die. I'd assume from your perspective life is a death march. Every day you wake up and struggle to avoid your death. Every step you take is a dodge of a death trap. Every bite is a fight to maintain metabolism. Every breath is a rebel sigh. Am I right?

It may be best , and most productive at this point to drop out of this and just let B talk to rob, as b requested.    I think any of us adding anything would just be poisoning the regardless of how valuable we think are opinions are.

What's your motive for this commandment? How bizarre.

It's all part of my conspiratorial Zionist - Masonic plan to rule the world... Either that,  or just advice for productive dialogue for the actual concerns of the op.

+1

With a caveat.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 06:45:38 PM by Ainnir »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #378 on: August 04, 2017, 06:52:29 PM »
I dont find it Good news, because considering what you just said, the fact that God even created a world that would unfold in this way and, according to Christ's own words, a world where many Will inevitably be damnned (narrow is the gate etc.), is bad news. So IMO, christianity is dishonest when it calls creation good considering that eternal suffering for the multitude is inevitable. So left for me is to try to make a leap of faith for the sole reason that I fear punishment and dont want hell, but that again is dishonest and pathetic from my side.
Maybe look at it as not so much of leap of faith to avoid damnation but rather leap to life. Christ wants to give life abundantly and also give us rest, His burden is light. Christ is the narrow gate that leads to life. God does not want anyone to suffer eternally.
If God does not want that, why then did he create a world where the possibility is real, even probable for the majority if we believe the earliest christian writings?

Pretty darn curious how you cope with death. Every day brings you closer. Nobody asked to be born, but everybody has to die. I'd assume from your perspective life is a death march. Every day you wake up and struggle to avoid your death. Every step you take is a dodge of a death trap. Every bite is a fight to maintain metabolism. Every breath is a rebel sigh. Am I right?

It may be best , and most productive at this point to drop out of this and just let B talk to rob, as b requested.    I think any of us adding anything would just be poisoning the regardless of how valuable we think are opinions are.

What's your motive for this commandment? How bizarre.

It's all part of my conspiratorial Zionist - Masonic plan to rule the world... Either that,  or just advice for productive dialogue for the actual concerns of the op.

+1

With a caveat.

You too huh? Even more bizarre. What kind of forum experience are you used to where suddenly nobody but one random poster can post to a thread anymore?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline William T

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #379 on: August 04, 2017, 06:59:30 PM »
I dont find it Good news, because considering what you just said, the fact that God even created a world that would unfold in this way and, according to Christ's own words, a world where many Will inevitably be damnned (narrow is the gate etc.), is bad news. So IMO, christianity is dishonest when it calls creation good considering that eternal suffering for the multitude is inevitable. So left for me is to try to make a leap of faith for the sole reason that I fear punishment and dont want hell, but that again is dishonest and pathetic from my side.
Maybe look at it as not so much of leap of faith to avoid damnation but rather leap to life. Christ wants to give life abundantly and also give us rest, His burden is light. Christ is the narrow gate that leads to life. God does not want anyone to suffer eternally.
If God does not want that, why then did he create a world where the possibility is real, even probable for the majority if we believe the earliest christian writings?

Pretty darn curious how you cope with death. Every day brings you closer. Nobody asked to be born, but everybody has to die. I'd assume from your perspective life is a death march. Every day you wake up and struggle to avoid your death. Every step you take is a dodge of a death trap. Every bite is a fight to maintain metabolism. Every breath is a rebel sigh. Am I right?

It may be best , and most productive at this point to drop out of this and just let B talk to rob, as b requested.    I think any of us adding anything would just be poisoning the regardless of how valuable we think are opinions are.

What's your motive for this commandment? How bizarre.

It's all part of my conspiratorial Zionist - Masonic plan to rule the world... Either that,  or just advice for productive dialogue for the actual concerns of the op.

+1

With a caveat.

You too huh? Even more bizarre. What kind of forum experience are you used to where suddenly nobody but one random poster can post to a thread anymore?

Porter, it's just a piece of advice, I was giving it to myself just as much as anybody else (hence why I wouldn't do something private like PM you).  Publicly speaking, I don't think your approach is good for much right now - the same is true for mine, as well as Mor's, or anybody else as long as this thread or any concern for B's actions on this thread is to be the main focus, for better or worse and regardless of how much more I'm sympathetic to opposition arguments (such as yours, Mina, or Mors)- it's just advice and appeal, that's all.

Perhaps It's Berrberts resopnsabiltry to make this more private, if so...the ball is in his court, and in this way, you may be correct.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:03:40 PM by William T »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #380 on: August 04, 2017, 07:03:26 PM »
I'm sure your buddy Nothing is flattered, but it's one of the strangest things I've encountered here, which is saying a lot. "Everybody out of the thread." Okay then, William.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #381 on: August 04, 2017, 07:15:17 PM »
I'm sure your buddy Nothing is flattered, but it's one of the strangest things I've encountered here, which is saying a lot. "Everybody out of the thread." Okay then, William.
Since when did normalcy count for anything?
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #382 on: August 04, 2017, 07:18:45 PM »
I'm sure your buddy Nothing is flattered, but it's one of the strangest things I've encountered here, which is saying a lot. "Everybody out of the thread." Okay then, William.
Since when did normalcy count for anything?

Nobody told you about normal points? How did you think folks were winning those SUVs and two dogs and two kids?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #383 on: August 04, 2017, 07:26:00 PM »
I'm sure your buddy Nothing is flattered, but it's one of the strangest things I've encountered here, which is saying a lot. "Everybody out of the thread." Okay then, William.
Since when did normalcy count for anything?

Nobody told you about normal points? How did you think folks were winning those SUVs and two dogs and two kids?

Smoking pot is normal. Keeping two dogs isn't.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:31:48 PM by mcarmichael »
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline William T

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #384 on: August 04, 2017, 07:34:18 PM »
I'm sure your buddy Nothing is flattered, but it's one of the strangest things I've encountered here, which is saying a lot. "Everybody out of the thread." Okay then, William.
Since when did normalcy count for anything?

That's pretty strange too, probably a bit more strange and original than anything your conspiratorial mind can concoct.  Mcarmichael is my hero right now, and you are the Margret Dumont to....well...EVERYBODYS Groucho Marx.
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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #385 on: August 04, 2017, 07:39:02 PM »
I'm sure your buddy Nothing is flattered, but it's one of the strangest things I've encountered here, which is saying a lot. "Everybody out of the thread." Okay then, William.
Since when did normalcy count for anything?

That's pretty strange too, probably a bit more strange and original than anything your conspiratorial mind can concoct.  Mcarmichael is my hero right now, and you are the Margret Dumont to....well...EVERYBODYS Groucho Marx.
Porter is not so bad. He adds depth to the conversation.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:39:52 PM by mcarmichael »
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #386 on: August 04, 2017, 08:33:53 PM »
Is there any other reason for becoming a Christian than the belief that it is true? Why have all of you decided to be Christians? This is a well meaning question that I am interested to understand
What is the question, or how do you understand your question?

My answer: Mathematics. I've written a proof, do you speak Latex?

[Latex]=[/Latex]

This is the proof that I received.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 08:45:26 PM by mcarmichael »
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #387 on: August 04, 2017, 08:47:56 PM »
Cheers!
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline Alpha60

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #388 on: August 04, 2017, 09:57:23 PM »
Is there any other reason for becoming a Christian than the belief that it is true? Why have all of you decided to be Christians? This is a well meaning question that I am interested to understand
What is the question, or how do you understand your question?

My answer: Mathematics. I've written a proof, do you speak Latex?

[Latex]=[/Latex]

This is the proof that I received.

I'd be very sueprised if you knew the LaTeX markup language for documents and mathematical equations, because most people who use it capitalize it as LaTeX (it's pronounced La-Tech, and if you've ever studied serious math or computer science you've either used it, or used documents prepared using it, or used a front end for it; for example, wikipedia lets you input math equations using it.   Its a markup language a bit like HTML, but math oriented, and with a default, visually elegant style.  Or rather, macros which make a more complex markup language, TeX, easier to use.

I think m4(1), the UNIX macro interpreter, was originally used to turn LaTeX into Tex, but modern software, IIRC, often parses it directly.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #389 on: August 04, 2017, 10:06:14 PM »
Is there any other reason for becoming a Christian than the belief that it is true? Why have all of you decided to be Christians? This is a well meaning question that I am interested to understand
What is the question, or how do you understand your question?

My answer: Mathematics. I've written a proof, do you speak Latex?

[Latex]=[/Latex]

This is the proof that I received.

I'd be very sueprised if you knew the LaTeX markup language for documents and mathematical equations, because most people who use it capitalize it as LaTeX (it's pronounced La-Tech, and if you've ever studied serious math or computer science you've either used it, or used documents prepared using it, or used a front end for it; for example, wikipedia lets you input math equations using it.   Its a markup language a bit like HTML, but math oriented, and with a default, visually elegant style.  Or rather, macros which make a more complex markup language, TeX, easier to use.

I think m4(1), the UNIX macro interpreter, was originally used to turn LaTeX into Tex, but modern software, IIRC, often parses it directly.
Thanks. Any thoughts on my equation?

My supposition,it seems, is that existence itself is proof enough. Do you feel about that?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 10:11:13 PM by mcarmichael »
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #390 on: August 04, 2017, 11:17:19 PM »
beebert be
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline RobS

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #391 on: August 04, 2017, 11:21:30 PM »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #392 on: August 04, 2017, 11:45:55 PM »
Keep drinking a little bit of beer. Don't feel bad about it, either.
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

Offline mcarmichael

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #393 on: August 04, 2017, 11:48:51 PM »
Keep drinking a little bit of beer. Don't feel bad about it, either.
If you hold to this rule, we will call you beerbert.
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #394 on: August 04, 2017, 11:56:46 PM »
Keep drinking a little bit of beer. Don't feel bad about it, either.
If you hold to this rule, we will call you beerbert.
Official Orthodox.
"Mouth make trouble, mouth make no trouble." - Sun Tzu

"Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil. Do not be hasty in word or impulsive in thought to bring up a matter in the presence of God. For God is in heaven and you are on the earth; therefore let your words be few." - Ecclesiastes (NASB)

"Horses are animals." - Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #395 on: August 05, 2017, 01:03:45 AM »
So both mor ephrem and Peter O'doran (the greatest prick on this forum) are unwilling to help me as soon as I ask seriously for it and pose some honest things?

Is this some "Gotcha!" moment?  You start out believing Christianity is evil and its practitioners are liars and then entrap them in a situation where they are exposed for the dishonest shams they are? 

You failed.  I mean, you're right that I'm a dishonest sham of a Christian, but not for the reasons you think. 

If you claim to be incapable of belief (and you do claim this), how can I explain belief to you?  How can I explain beliefs?  How can I explain what it means to believe in God and believe in beliefs about God? 

You're not ready to listen.  Even Jesus did not spend a lot of time talking to people who were not ready to listen.  Even Jesus could not heal people who didn't want it.  What can Mor Ephrem do?

Shake the dust off of your sandals.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #396 on: August 05, 2017, 01:47:04 PM »
I am 190 percent incapable of trusting Christ, but I CANT move on even if I want to, since it means I will go to hell. Because I can't trust, yet like a demon I believe he was who he claimed to be.

So you believe in hell?
I think it is a high probability that christianity is true yes

I'm not sure if you're trying to be clever by answering my question about hell in this way. 

Assuming you are not, and that's really just where your mind took you, how does it make sense?  Among other things, you claim that Christianity is an abusive, destructive, and life-hating religion.  If you really think Christianity is probably true, how do you reconcile this? 

Do you accept Christianity and conclude that the truth of existence is that "whatever is true, whatever is honourable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, whatever is excellent, whatever is worthy of praise" is 100% harmful to a person, and that only what is apparently false, dishonourable, unjust, filthy, hateful, etc. is actually 100% beneficial for people? 

Do you reject Christianity and live a lie that is nurturing, edifying, and life-affirming? 

How does this work?
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #397 on: August 05, 2017, 01:49:20 PM »
So when you say Christ is in man's likeness like you Said here, do you mean that he IS eternally the crucified and resurrected too?

In a sense, yes, but to explain further is far more theology than is useful or even comprehensible to you in your present condition.  You are likely to hear it and twist it into something it's not.
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Ainnir

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #398 on: August 05, 2017, 02:09:40 PM »
So both mor ephrem and Peter O'doran (the greatest prick on this forum) are unwilling to help me as soon as I ask seriously for it and pose some honest things?

Is this some "Gotcha!" moment?  You start out believing Christianity is evil and its practitioners are liars and then entrap them in a situation where they are exposed for the dishonest shams they are? 

You failed.  I mean, you're right that I'm a dishonest sham of a Christian, but not for the reasons you think. 

If you claim to be incapable of belief (and you do claim this), how can I explain belief to you?  How can I explain beliefs?  How can I explain what it means to believe in God and believe in beliefs about God? 

You're not ready to listen.  Even Jesus did not spend a lot of time talking to people who were not ready to listen.  Even Jesus could not heal people who didn't want it.  What can Mor Ephrem do?

Shake the dust off of your sandals.  Pray.

FTFY.
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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #399 on: August 05, 2017, 02:10:12 PM »

How does this work?

 
I would think you had to have an official "enemy" in order to make progress. Otherwise, its just a forum.
Learn meditation.

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #400 on: August 05, 2017, 02:11:57 PM »
What is your view on music?

Composed by Symphony.
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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #401 on: August 05, 2017, 03:07:48 PM »
I am 190 percent incapable of trusting Christ, but I CANT move on even if I want to, since it means I will go to hell. Because I can't trust, yet like a demon I believe he was who he claimed to be.

So you believe in hell?
I think it is a high probability that christianity is true yes

I'm not sure if you're trying to be clever by answering my question about hell in this way. 

Assuming you are not, and that's really just where your mind took you, how does it make sense?  Among other things, you claim that Christianity is an abusive, destructive, and life-hating religion.  If you really think Christianity is probably true, how do you reconcile this? 

Do you accept Christianity and conclude that the truth of existence is that "whatever is true, whatever is honourable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, whatever is excellent, whatever is worthy of praise" is 100% harmful to a person, and that only what is apparently false, dishonourable, unjust, filthy, hateful, etc. is actually 100% beneficial for people? 

Do you reject Christianity and live a lie that is nurturing, edifying, and life-affirming? 

How does this work?
The problem is that you make the assumption that Truth must be beautiful. If I say, "christianity is probably true", meaning that God probably became incarnated in Christ etc., you seem to(though correct me if I am wrong) take that to mean automatically that it then is impossible or unreasonable to not have faith in Christ, or at least that it is impossible to call this truth ugly or life-hating etc. But that is a question of valuation. What is beneficial? In God's view, beneficial is for example to eternally separate the sheep and the goats and let all people who do not live up to his high standards(the majority according to the gospels) suffer eternally in mental and physical agony in a lake of fire. This may be symbolic language, but it isn't really a pretty picture but a rather frightening one. So eternal peace and harmony for all is certainly out of question. So what is beneficial? Why is salvation in itself more beneficial than destruction? Is it because we want to avoid pain? But what if I say that I find the christian truth to be so horrible that I would prefer suffering and destruction to serving this truth? I still at least take a stand and make a decision against/for the truth, which is far better than being indifferent. Do you agree that there might be a possibility that a man rebels against God, or at least his conception of God since God is impossible to understand, for moral reasons? If not, let me explain these moral reasons for you: Christ gave men their freedom from the Mosaic Law when all they wanted was bread; that is, Christ’s gift of freedom was bestowed on a recipient ill suited to accept such a gift, because man is weak, vicious and rebellious. Man was before Christ guided in his every action according to the dictates of the Mosaic Law, which commandments are characterized by necessity and orderliness, but Christ’s work replaced the law with man’s freedom to choose between good and evil, having only Christ ideal as a model for his actions. Take for example the Grand Inquisitor from Dostoevsky's novel Brothers Karamazov: According to the Grand Inquisitor, the desire of all men’s hearts is not the exercising of their freedom to choose between good and evil according to their respective conscience, but to be ruled and ordered under a lawgiver, who’s sole purpose is to take such decision making out of their hands. The Grand Inquisitor strikes upon a very simple remedy for the absurd meaninglessness of human suffering, but only after he himself spent nearly a lifetime subduing his flesh and subsisting on roots in the desert in order to make himself “free and perfect” before God:

"All his life he loved humanity, and suddenly his eyes were opened, and he saw that it was no great moral blessedness to attain perfection and freedom, if at the same time one gains the conviction that millions of God’s creatures have been created as a mockery, that thy will never be capable of using their freedom… In his old age he reached the clear conviction that nothing but the advice of the great dread spirit [the devil] could build up any tolerable sort of life for the feeble, unruly “incomplete, empirical creatures created in jest.” And so, convinced of this, he sees that he must follow the council of the wise spirit, the dread spirit of death and destruction, and therefore accept lying and deception, and lead men consciously to death and destruction, and yet deceive them all the way so that they may not notice where they are being led, that the poor blind creatures may at least on the way think themselves happy. And note, the deception is carried out in the name of Him in Whose ideal the old man had so fervently believed all his life long"

Freedom is the most terrible burden God could have placed on humanity, since so few are capable of being consistent with so perfect an exemplar as Christ. The presence of God’s moral standard in the world is an burden that men can neither throw off nor endure, and so men alienate the freedom given them by Christ as a gift, an ill conceived gift, according to the Inquisitor, and he gladly takes the freedom from men and exchanges it for happiness. Under the dictatorship of the conscience, a corollary to the gift of freedom, man is unhappy and ever mindful of his continual failings when compared to the life lived by the theanthropus, Christ. Conversely, under the dictatorship of divine law, or even the rule of a civil authority, man’s life is content because his conscience is clear — the decision to do this-or-that, or not, is never his to make, and thus ultimate responsibility for the consequence of his actions is taken from him as well. In the Grand Inquisitor’s indictment of Christ, it is Christ's fulfilling of the Mosaic Law that has placed God beyond the reach of man’s ken, and beyond the goal of man’s merely mortal activities. The eternal standards of truth, good and evil, and the way to salvation, are all overturned by the advent of Christ, which example is set by God’s free choice. But most men are unable to grasp the full capacity of this change, and are forced to turn to other resources, and rely on other faculties that were not necessary in order to adhere to the Mosaic Law, such as reason, in order to discern between good and evil, and to determine by what means he might be saved; by God, or by human industry. Nihilism, according then according to me, has in many ways christianity as its source, because there is NO way to return to the values that were before Christ either. Nihilism is a result of man’s bewilderment before and omnipotent and willful God and not because God simply does not exist; my temptation to rely on myself and my own powers is due to the fact that I am forced to compensate in light of the fact that what God has determined as good cannot be relied upon to be good for man. Because in the light of the inevitable eternal suffering for the common man, who according to Dostoevsky's Inquisitor has been fooled by the catholic church in to thinking that he is on the right path when in reality he is following the devil. In this case an external authority that is in the end totalitarian instead of his own conscience, because man does not want to follow his own conscience and decide between good and evil, the distress that comes from despair and anxiety makes him more willing to die than to choose. So instead he decides to listen to authorities outside of him that claim to speak in the name of Christ. On this ground, if I have not the internal movements of the soul to accomplish faith in Christ, I refuse to believe that the external signs of the church, like baptism and the eucharist and confession to priests, will help me in any way.

Man has often chosen the path of war, of Caesar, of Satan... But this does not overcome God. Christ rejected with scorn to found a universal state and attain universal happiness now, but wanted it in his kingdom, and most men are unable to follow Christ's path. But yet Christ created them, and yet he rejected to turn stone into bread etc. Only a few men, out of the whole host of mankind, have the potential to come close to living up to Christ’s moral example, I ask; what need does mankind-at-large have for a God that has overestimated man’s capacity to manage the intellectual and bodily exertions that necessarily come with the exercise of freedom? The efforts of a few men (the Grand Inquisitor in Dostoevsky's novel and a few others like him) to rescue humanity from self-destruction and to bring about universal happiness provides the foundation for totalitarianism; the incomprehensible God is replaced by the institution of a state religion, which is actually no religion at all, only an absolute civil authority armed at all points in the tinsel and trappings of religion. But... Where is God in all this? Where is he?

When our moral character is shaped according to the dictates of a universal moral power, the question of “what kind of man should I be” or "how shall I behave?" is simply a given where the answer lies not with the will of the individual, but with the will of God, right? Our nature is shaped not by our intellect, but by the dictates of our will; the justification behind all moral and intellectual hierarchies is the power that one interpretation of the world has over all other interpretations; power equals precedence. Why Nietzsche in all this for me? Because he demands a revaluation of values. This means not for Nietzsche a change of values, like in preferring other values to the ones already existing, but rather a change in the element from which the value of a certain value derives to start with... This does not mean reversal of evil turning into good, or the other way around, but that all interpretations of what is good or evil are materializations of that which Nietzsche calls the Will to Power... So this I think is part of Nietzsches understanding of things... And here to the origin of nihilism, according to Nietzsche: One reason is moral passivity, which he means is a negation of existence, and therefore lacking any actual meaning, and the second is the power to take action in creating values that have meaning, but only in the sense that they are "powerful". Regarding moral passivity, Nietzsche would say that when the will of the self is directed towards the will of God, or to what Nietzsche calls a “beyond,” the content of experience(love, hate etc.) is negated, and man’s “will to power,” which is an affirmation of life, the life itself, is replaced by the “will to nothingness,” or the denial of life, and hence nihilism. One must understand this more as a diagnosis of the times and mankind rather than Nietzsche objectively considering one thing to be better than another... Rather, his own valuations very much stems from his thought "How to overcome nihilism" and here I am in agreement with him, because that is my task too now...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 03:11:39 PM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #402 on: August 05, 2017, 03:55:28 PM »
But we are all "capable" of following "an exemplar [such] as Christ."
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline beebert

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #403 on: August 05, 2017, 04:57:57 PM »
But we are all "capable" of following "an exemplar [such] as Christ."
I dont agree. For the reasons Stated above and two more: 1. I can't, you may say I can, but where is this internal movement of my soul. A man can not just Change his feelings etc. To say otherwise is to have a low understanding of man. So here a divine intervention is required, otherwise a man might as well save himself and christianity is no longer different from other religions. So where is this divine intervention? "In Christ". Yes, but yet I can't Believe no matter how much I have tried
2. The common man is incapable of doing what Abraham did. The common man wants Christ to turn stone in to bread and would call the one who did that a savior. I know because I cant do what Abraham did, I had the chance But neither the courage nor faith nor understanding. It is too obvious from history as well. And even from Scripture in words like election and a narrow way where many wont be ABLE to enter.

Also, what is really the purpose of following Christ if one takes the post you responded to in consideration? And even despite of that post, what is the purpose?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 05:03:01 PM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The apostle Paul - An enemy of life
« Reply #404 on: August 05, 2017, 05:06:47 PM »
"Be ye therefore perfect ... be the children of your Father which is in heaven, for he ... sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father is merciful."

"To whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required." "But he that knew not, [of him little]."

"Pray: Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors."

"I say unto thee: Her sins, which are many, are forgiven for she loved much."

Joyfully adjust your understanding of God by these words from his Son.

It is my fairly strong opinion that, if we fail not to enjoy God in his beautiful works, and fail not to forgive others kindly -- throughout our lives -- that then surely we shall be saved.



"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy