Author Topic: Romanian priest comes out as atheist  (Read 1904 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2017, 10:39:19 AM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .

That's not atheism. But I feel you're leaving something out. You say Orthodox Christianity is not unlike other religions, but I think you mean to imply it is culpably false. So you are anti-Christian.
if it wouldn't look too ridiculous I'd be a polytheist of sorts. I'm anti-christian only  in so far as anybody that No longer believes The specifics of Christianity is.
I talked about Christianity in toto not just about Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy ain't all that different unless you wear magic glasses .
you believe in "Scientific Materialism," so you surely have magic glasses.
Your supposed assessment from a step back is also off.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2017, 10:41:41 AM »
I'll wait until this discussion gets split into another section on the boards, but if I understand what you mean augustin, that myths are involved in the creation of an ideology so what happens is the myth serves to naturalize a belief or "worldview". I can get behind that but I'm wary of a sophmoric treatment of Christianity in this light. Certainly Christianity can and has turned into an ideology, but from my POV it is not nor is it a belief system even if it has the appearance of it.

On the other hand it might be helpful to get clear what is meant by mythology because it can be argued nobody ever exists outside of one. Functional myths structure reality. But if you mean sacred stories then sure Orthodoxy has powerful myths, such as particular lives of the saints or events in the Gospels but I never saw that as problematic. For me a myth in that sense does not simply mean a "false belief" but represents a deeper truth. Its like the Genesis creation myth narrative, there's much more embodied in spiritual truths than some vulgar rendering of it as "literal" history. I dont treat the Gospels as historical texts either, so it doesnt bother me if there are legendary flourishes throughout. A particular culture was involved in the writing of those texts so it wouldnt surprise me, what matters is how all of that relates ultimately to Christ.
Do you treat Christ as historical then ? I mean Christianity has been presenting its inception  as real, observable , recoded history.  I believe that's not true. I have no qualms if that doesn't bother you and you still wanna follow Its ethics . But I don't think that's normative within Orthodoxy.
nor should it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2017, 10:43:26 AM »
It looks like the Romanian Church is getting all sorts of surprises this summer:

And this will not stop. What I can tell you is that the Parliament is about to approve or to decline a referendum, asked by no less than 3 million people, in order to change the definition of the family in the Romanian Constitution. The Orthodox majority here want to have clearly defined the marriage as the union between a man and a woman. Therefore, such ‘appearances’ will now come to the public, they will try anything to stop this. But I am confident. The church’s head was, is and will be Christ.
you mean The organization that unites neonazis , Pentecostals and orthodox ?
The old nazis united the Pentecostals and Orthodox and communists against them.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2017, 10:48:16 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2017, 10:54:12 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2017, 11:05:03 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2017, 11:27:16 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.

So you're just a rank and file agnostic then?
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline beebert

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2017, 11:33:46 AM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 11:34:07 AM by beebert »
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2017, 02:55:08 PM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.

So you're just a rank and file agnostic then?
ITS not Like im joining an organization so I don't care what I'm called.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline WPM

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2017, 02:59:18 PM »
I think the Question is why refer to "Church" and whether you have any real relation to it.
Learn meditation.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2017, 06:14:56 PM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.

So you're just a rank and file agnostic then?
ITS not Like im joining an organization so I don't care what I'm called.

Just trying to get a handle on where you're coming from, bro.  I see now that you're not in any unique, special bag at all.  Very central casting.  Thanks for the clarification.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2017, 06:15:11 PM »
I think the Question is why refer to "Church" and whether you have any real relation to it.

+1
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2017, 04:15:40 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.   
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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2017, 10:50:19 AM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.

Land ahoy!
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2017, 03:50:25 AM »
Fr. Edward Tarte, former Roman Catholic priest, now as atheist.

He left priesthood before Vatican II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do4rPEwRASo&list=PL2B701267FCFFC6CC

I discovered Edward Tarte by his piano playing.

then I watched his videos about his seminary before vatican II.

The songs I liked to listen to him play, as I have been playing them on piano too, but have had trouble finding other recordings of it on piano:

"BECAUSE"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCjjnOCCWQM

"IN THE GLOAMING"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB2Mp7ibA9U

"MY WILD IRISH ROSE"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgUwjBh_pxM

I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline beebert

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2017, 04:14:24 AM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.
What sort of torment do you here mean?
'Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil' (Exodus 23:2)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2017, 11:00:35 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.
What sort of torment do you here mean?

Why don't you tell us? Where does it hurt?
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy