Author Topic: Romanian priest comes out as atheist  (Read 1596 times)

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Offline augustin717

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Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« on: July 25, 2017, 02:16:27 PM »
It looks like the Romanian Church is getting all sorts of surprises this summer:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PoYqwT4Q8rM
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 02:52:49 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 02:53:43 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!

 ;)
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2017, 02:56:19 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2017, 03:01:24 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

He's gonna have to kill a whole lotta snakes if he wants to make it into heaven now.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2017, 03:03:16 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

He's gonna have to kill a whole lotta snakes if he wants to make it into heaven now.
i don't imagine Ethiopia is different tbt
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2017, 03:04:37 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

He's gonna have to kill a whole lotta snakes if he wants to make it into heaven now.
i don't imagine Ethiopia is different tbt

Maybe you should consider letting them bury you there.  I've heard Wollo is nice.
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Offline RobS

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2017, 03:20:43 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
You have to admit his "With Pews" jurisdiction was pretty hilarious. ;D ;D

My priest would love to rip out all the pews in the parish. I might offer to lend a hand!
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 03:24:20 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!

+1
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2017, 03:37:23 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
You have to admit his "With Pews" jurisdiction was pretty hilarious. ;D ;D

Hey, sometimes an atheist's gotta sit.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2017, 04:17:51 PM »
The priest was apparently also  a doctor in theology yet he had not read any biblical criticism as part of his academic formation. That's the Romanian theological education system. The funniest thing I read yesterday were the complaints about it being "too scholastic ". Lol. It's folklore and fideism. And some fundie apologetics. But there are a few shining exceptions I admit yet they have don't really have an audience.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 04:20:08 PM by augustin717 »
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2017, 05:50:57 PM »
The priest was apparently also  a doctor in theology yet he had not read any biblical criticism as part of his academic formation. That's the Romanian theological education system. The funniest thing I read yesterday were the complaints about it being "too scholastic ". Lol. It's folklore and fideism. And some fundie apologetics. But there are a few shining exceptions I admit yet they have don't really have an audience.

It's all a big head game though anyway, right?  What does it really matter how rigorous their programs all when they might as well be studying manticores and Martians?  What's a doctorate of theology worth when there's no God?  It sounds to me like what they have will be enough to placate the rustic rubes who need that crap to get them through the drudgery of their daily lives, and the pomp and familiarity should be enough to give the culturally Orthodox Romanians that warm fuzzy feeling inside.  Especially on Pascha.  Or Whacking Day.



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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2017, 06:20:40 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
You have to admit his "With Pews" jurisdiction was pretty hilarious. ;D ;D

Hey, sometimes an atheist's gotta sit.

I would remark at the relative lack of atheist stylites.   

It would seem atheism is a mere adjunct to epicureanism, a sort of moral self-justification for self-indulgence.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 06:21:19 PM »
Kind of amusing but oh well ><>
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2017, 06:23:35 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
You have to admit his "With Pews" jurisdiction was pretty hilarious. ;D ;D

Hey, sometimes an atheist's gotta sit.

I would remark at the relative lack of atheist stylites.   

It would seem atheism is a mere adjunct to epicureanism, a sort of moral self-justification for self-indulgence.r
hey for some xrisianity is merely an adjunct to their masochism / scruples /neurosis.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 06:25:37 PM by augustin717 »
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2017, 06:25:57 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

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"He who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2017, 06:27:36 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2017, 06:51:44 PM »
I would remark at the relative lack of atheist stylites.   

It would seem atheism is a mere adjunct to epicureanism, a sort of moral self-justification for self-indulgence.

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Offline AlioshaKaramazov

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2017, 07:02:53 PM »
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting.
Can relate. Atheism and atheists are pretty boring to be honest.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2017, 07:08:12 PM »
I tend to agree .  If you talk about organized atheism , those as I've head , gather for lectures on Sunday mornings .
I'd rather attend the imperial rites of Constantinople .
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 07:10:45 PM by augustin717 »
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2017, 07:58:49 PM »
I would remark at the relative lack of atheist stylites.   

It would seem atheism is a mere adjunct to epicureanism, a sort of moral self-justification for self-indulgence.



You seem to have made a mistake and replied to something not the OP.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2017, 07:59:54 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

So your complaint is priests aren't properly prepared at church expense to become atheists?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2017, 08:09:31 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting.

No argument here.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

"Now one cannot be a half-hearted Christian, but only entirely or not at all." -Fr. Seraphim Rose

"He who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2017, 08:14:35 PM »
Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

So your complaint is priests aren't properly prepared at church expense to become atheists?
actually the church sets them up for that. At least the more intellectually curious.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2017, 08:27:06 PM »
Atheist Sunday Assembly need a minister???
O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2017, 08:30:51 PM »
I tend to agree .  If you talk about organized atheism , those as I've head , gather for lectures on Sunday mornings .
I'd rather attend the imperial rites of Constantinople .

Such pomp.  Much grandeur.  Very nostalgia.  Wow.

Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

So your complaint is priests aren't properly prepared at church expense to become atheists?
actually the church sets them up for that. At least the more intellectually curious.

But that ultimately leads them to the truth that there is no God, right?  Isn't that a good thing?  If they want the fuzzies, they can always eat some of Mama's sarmale.  Or kill some snakes.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2017, 08:34:32 PM »
I tend to agree .  If you talk about organized atheism , those as I've head , gather for lectures on Sunday mornings .
I'd rather attend the imperial rites of Constantinople .

Such pomp.  Much grandeur.  Very nostalgia.  Wow.

Looks like you've found your Father of Confession!
he was apparently a decent and conscientious priest . His defection exposes the intellectual poverty of the Romanian theological schools where a crude  version of Fundamentalism and young earth creationism is the norm. It leaves the more thinking clergy unprepared to deal with matters of bible criticism etc.

So your complaint is priests aren't properly prepared at church expense to become atheists?
actually the church sets them up for that. At least the more intellectually curious.

But that ultimately leads them to the truth that there is no God, right?  Isn't that a good thing?  If they want the fuzzies, they can always eat some of Mama's sarmale.  Or kill some snakes.
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do. But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2017, 08:34:37 PM »
Atheist Sunday Assembly need a minister???

Hey, I've seen atheist* meetings where the minister doesn't keep a tight leash on things, and the testimonials and praise reports can get absurdly out of hand, turning into a half hour of "my life" vignettes. Ain't no one got time for that.


*technically Unitarian Universalist
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 08:43:25 PM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 08:49:32 PM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Anthony1986

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2017, 08:50:57 PM »
Fr. Edward Tarte, former Roman Catholic priest, now as atheist.

He left priesthood before Vatican II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do4rPEwRASo&list=PL2B701267FCFFC6CC

O strange Orthodox Church, so poor and weak, with neither the organization nor the culture of the West, staying afloat as if by a miracle in the face of so many trials, tribulations and struggles; a Church of contrasts, both so traditional and so free, so archaic and so alive, so ritualist and so personally involved, a Church where the priceless pearl of the Gospel is assiduously preserved, sometimes under a layer of dust; a Church which in shadows and silence maintains above all the eternal val

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2017, 08:52:24 PM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .

That's not atheism. But I feel you're leaving something out. You say Orthodox Christianity is not unlike other religions, but I think you mean to imply it is culpably false. So you are anti-Christian.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2017, 08:58:15 PM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .

That's not atheism. But I feel you're leaving something out. You say Orthodox Christianity is not unlike other religions, but I think you mean to imply it is culpably false. So you are anti-Christian.
if it wouldn't look too ridiculous I'd be a polytheist of sorts. I'm anti-christian only  in so far as anybody that No longer believes The specifics of Christianity is.
I talked about Christianity in toto not just about Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy ain't all that different unless you wear magic glasses .
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline WPM

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2017, 09:00:25 PM »
No, people are telling you certain things because of their reasoning for this or that.
Learn meditation.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2017, 10:12:39 PM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .

So then you no longer identify as an atheist as it used to say in your profile info before your very recent change?  You're an agnostic of sorts?

if it wouldn't look too ridiculous I'd be a polytheist of sorts.

So your chief concern is how something looks, not whether or not it's true.  You're more concerned with how worshipping a pantheon of gods would make you look, not whether or not said pantheon actually exists and can save you in any way.  Sounds kinda poseurish.

I'm anti-christian only  in so far as anybody that No longer believes The specifics of Christianity is.

Hipster.

I talked about Christianity in toto not just about Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy ain't all that different unless you wear magic glasses .

Now you're just being silly.  Or at least inconsistent.  Not only have you talked about the differences between various Christian sects before - often just to ineffectively troll the Oriental Orthodox posters - and you've said that Orthodoxy shaped your society.  You can't imagine that Romanian society would be recognizable to you had it been shaped by Calvinism or Charismatism.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2017, 10:23:18 PM »
One of my favorite poets is Peguy who himself went from atheism to some sort of quirky Roman Catholicism. I'm gonna hijack the sense of one of his verses , but that's how I feel about the universe now: "A world without offense, a world without forgiveness...".
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2017, 10:31:27 PM »
One of my favorite poets is Peguy who himself went from atheism to some sort of quirky Roman Catholicism. I'm gonna hijack the sense of one of his verses , but that's how I feel about the universe now: "A world without offense, a world without forgiveness...".

Yeah, that's pretty much the essence of godless cut-flower ethics.  No God, no one to offend, no need to ask forgiveness.  But back to the pantheon, I think the idea that you'd worship them if it didn't make you look bad is a bit of a cop out.  You're gonna make Zalmoxis cry.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2017, 10:45:43 PM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline RobS

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2017, 11:31:28 PM »
I'll wait until this discussion gets split into another section on the boards, but if I understand what you mean augustin, that myths are involved in the creation of an ideology so what happens is the myth serves to naturalize a belief or "worldview". I can get behind that but I'm wary of a sophmoric treatment of Christianity in this light. Certainly Christianity can and has turned into an ideology, but from my POV it is not nor is it a belief system even if it has the appearance of it.

On the other hand it might be helpful to get clear what is meant by mythology because it can be argued nobody ever exists outside of one. Functional myths structure reality. But if you mean sacred stories then sure Orthodoxy has powerful myths, such as particular lives of the saints or events in the Gospels but I never saw that as problematic. For me a myth in that sense does not simply mean a "false belief" but represents a deeper truth. Its like the Genesis creation myth narrative, there's much more embodied in spiritual truths than some vulgar rendering of it as "literal" history. I dont treat the Gospels as historical texts either, so it doesnt bother me if there are legendary flourishes throughout. A particular culture was involved in the writing of those texts so it wouldnt surprise me, what matters is how all of that relates ultimately to Christ.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 11:32:11 PM by nothing »
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2017, 11:40:03 PM »
I'll wait until this discussion gets split into another section on the boards, but if I understand what you mean augustin, that myths are involved in the creation of an ideology so what happens is the myth serves to naturalize a belief or "worldview". I can get behind that but I'm wary of a sophmoric treatment of Christianity in this light. Certainly Christianity can and has turned into an ideology, but from my POV it is not nor is it a belief system even if it has the appearance of it.

On the other hand it might be helpful to get clear what is meant by mythology because it can be argued nobody ever exists outside of one. Functional myths structure reality. But if you mean sacred stories then sure Orthodoxy has powerful myths, such as particular lives of the saints or events in the Gospels but I never saw that as problematic. For me a myth in that sense does not simply mean a "false belief" but represents a deeper truth. Its like the Genesis creation myth narrative, there's much more embodied in spiritual truths than some vulgar rendering of it as "literal" history. I dont treat the Gospels as historical texts either, so it doesnt bother me if there are legendary flourishes throughout. A particular culture was involved in the writing of those texts so it wouldnt surprise me, what matters is how all of that relates ultimately to Christ.
Do you treat Christ as historical then ? I mean Christianity has been presenting its inception  as real, observable , recoded history.  I believe that's not true. I have no qualms if that doesn't bother you and you still wanna follow Its ethics . But I don't think that's normative within Orthodoxy.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2017, 11:43:20 PM »
Good gravy.
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2017, 11:53:21 PM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .

Even if/though (take your pick) Christianity is "just" a mythology, it's probably a better mythology than what's offered by the other religions of the world today in terms of liberating people and getting us to care for each other even if that other is not a member of our own group. Socially active Buddhists have been pretty honest in saying they got their model for social activism from Christians. And then there's 'the world's fastest growing religion' (more taqiyya?) Islam about which little needs to be said here.

Offline ilaria

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2017, 03:41:29 AM »
It looks like the Romanian Church is getting all sorts of surprises this summer:

And this will not stop. What I can tell you is that the Parliament is about to approve or to decline a referendum, asked by no less than 3 million people, in order to change the definition of the family in the Romanian Constitution. The Orthodox majority here want to have clearly defined the marriage as the union between a man and a woman. Therefore, such ‘appearances’ will now come to the public, they will try anything to stop this. But I am confident. The church’s head was, is and will be Christ.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2017, 04:08:23 AM »
It looks like the Romanian Church is getting all sorts of surprises this summer:

And this will not stop. What I can tell you is that the Parliament is about to approve or to decline a referendum, asked by no less than 3 million people, in order to change the definition of the family in the Romanian Constitution. The Orthodox majority here want to have clearly defined the marriage as the union between a man and a woman. Therefore, such ‘appearances’ will now come to the public, they will try anything to stop this. But I am confident. The church’s head was, is and will be Christ.
you mean The organization that unites neonazis , Pentecostals and orthodox ?
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2017, 09:57:18 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2017, 10:39:19 AM »
I don't pretend to know the ultimate truth. You do.

So clarify your position for me.  Do you believe in God or not?  Or you're not sure?

But one can see how historically and culturally determined the Christian revelation is. That's all I've ever said.

So you think Christianity is interesting and worthy as a cultural and historical endeavor, but in the end, we're all worm food, right?  Don't play coy and dance around the issue either, son.  Be a man and answer straight up.
I could never know whether a God or multiple gods or no gods exist or don't .  No I meant that when you step back and look at Christianity the way you'd look at any other religion/revelation or civilization it doesn't look different. It's a mythology. Our mythology for sure, it formed us, formed our inner life etc but not objectively truer than others or ultimate .

That's not atheism. But I feel you're leaving something out. You say Orthodox Christianity is not unlike other religions, but I think you mean to imply it is culpably false. So you are anti-Christian.
if it wouldn't look too ridiculous I'd be a polytheist of sorts. I'm anti-christian only  in so far as anybody that No longer believes The specifics of Christianity is.
I talked about Christianity in toto not just about Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy ain't all that different unless you wear magic glasses .
you believe in "Scientific Materialism," so you surely have magic glasses.
Your supposed assessment from a step back is also off.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2017, 10:41:41 AM »
I'll wait until this discussion gets split into another section on the boards, but if I understand what you mean augustin, that myths are involved in the creation of an ideology so what happens is the myth serves to naturalize a belief or "worldview". I can get behind that but I'm wary of a sophmoric treatment of Christianity in this light. Certainly Christianity can and has turned into an ideology, but from my POV it is not nor is it a belief system even if it has the appearance of it.

On the other hand it might be helpful to get clear what is meant by mythology because it can be argued nobody ever exists outside of one. Functional myths structure reality. But if you mean sacred stories then sure Orthodoxy has powerful myths, such as particular lives of the saints or events in the Gospels but I never saw that as problematic. For me a myth in that sense does not simply mean a "false belief" but represents a deeper truth. Its like the Genesis creation myth narrative, there's much more embodied in spiritual truths than some vulgar rendering of it as "literal" history. I dont treat the Gospels as historical texts either, so it doesnt bother me if there are legendary flourishes throughout. A particular culture was involved in the writing of those texts so it wouldnt surprise me, what matters is how all of that relates ultimately to Christ.
Do you treat Christ as historical then ? I mean Christianity has been presenting its inception  as real, observable , recoded history.  I believe that's not true. I have no qualms if that doesn't bother you and you still wanna follow Its ethics . But I don't think that's normative within Orthodoxy.
nor should it.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2017, 10:43:26 AM »
It looks like the Romanian Church is getting all sorts of surprises this summer:

And this will not stop. What I can tell you is that the Parliament is about to approve or to decline a referendum, asked by no less than 3 million people, in order to change the definition of the family in the Romanian Constitution. The Orthodox majority here want to have clearly defined the marriage as the union between a man and a woman. Therefore, such ‘appearances’ will now come to the public, they will try anything to stop this. But I am confident. The church’s head was, is and will be Christ.
you mean The organization that unites neonazis , Pentecostals and orthodox ?
The old nazis united the Pentecostals and Orthodox and communists against them.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2017, 10:48:16 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2017, 10:54:12 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2017, 11:05:03 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2017, 11:27:16 AM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.

So you're just a rank and file agnostic then?
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Offline beebert

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2017, 11:33:46 AM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 11:34:07 AM by beebert »
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2017, 02:55:08 PM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.

So you're just a rank and file agnostic then?
ITS not Like im joining an organization so I don't care what I'm called.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline WPM

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2017, 02:59:18 PM »
I think the Question is why refer to "Church" and whether you have any real relation to it.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2017, 06:14:56 PM »
Well of course Christianity being a very comprehensive mythology -like every monotheism is -can never be completely replaced with something as encompassing . But in truth few people need a perfectly coherent worldview . And the mere fact of being coherent does t make a mythology/belief system true in the metaphysical way you believe Christianity is.

I wasn't asking for yet another detour into "the world weary cynic attempts philosophy" land.  I don't have much patience for that anymore.  What I'm saying to you is that if your pantheon of Dacian deities (or whatever) is real, and the God of Christianity isn't, you should worship them.  Saying, "I would if it wouldn't make me look bad" is a major cop out.  So are the real or not?  If not, why even say you would worship them at all?
of course I don't regard as as real just because none of that is knowable at least. They are as legendary as the Savior.

Then why did you say that you would worship them if it "wouldn't make you look bad"?  Is religious practice like a LARP for you?  It's just something cool to participate in, but at end of the day, it's only make believe?
can't I express a preference for polytheism over monotheism even though i think both are as true ? It was sort of a tongue in cheek statement. No intention whatsoever to revive the Thracian Knight or Orpheus .
 It I've come to sympathize with Symmachus ' mild rebuke to his fanatical relative, Ambrosius: one cannot accede to such a great mystery only one way.  Even though I doubt we can ever accede at all.

So you're just a rank and file agnostic then?
ITS not Like im joining an organization so I don't care what I'm called.

Just trying to get a handle on where you're coming from, bro.  I see now that you're not in any unique, special bag at all.  Very central casting.  Thanks for the clarification.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2017, 06:15:11 PM »
I think the Question is why refer to "Church" and whether you have any real relation to it.

+1
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Offline Velsigne

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2017, 04:15:40 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.   
There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14.12

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2017, 10:50:19 AM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.

Land ahoy!
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2017, 03:50:25 AM »
Fr. Edward Tarte, former Roman Catholic priest, now as atheist.

He left priesthood before Vatican II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do4rPEwRASo&list=PL2B701267FCFFC6CC

I discovered Edward Tarte by his piano playing.

then I watched his videos about his seminary before vatican II.

The songs I liked to listen to him play, as I have been playing them on piano too, but have had trouble finding other recordings of it on piano:

"BECAUSE"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCjjnOCCWQM

"IN THE GLOAMING"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB2Mp7ibA9U

"MY WILD IRISH ROSE"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgUwjBh_pxM

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Offline beebert

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2017, 04:14:24 AM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.
What sort of torment do you here mean?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Romanian priest comes out as atheist
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2017, 11:00:35 PM »
Atheism is a existential void, which has to be filled. It isn't merely hedonism. Though there are hedonists.
there are hedonists among the believers who sort of enjoy the threat of damnation. Makes existence more exciting
Especially when they are themselves "saved" and headed for heaven, while enjoying the thought that others may be tortured forever

It seems as though you might be heading toward the realm of self appointed thought police, but that role is largely only serving to torment yourself.
What sort of torment do you here mean?

Why don't you tell us? Where does it hurt?
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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy