Author Topic: I heard yesterday that the AOC is going retranslate the liturgy in English?  (Read 1219 times)

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Offline Iconodule

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That's right, English is a dialect of French!
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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That's right, English is a dialect of French!

That would be Norman, the other ancestor of the English language.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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I hope they don't change "... and on to the ages of ages."

I don't see why anyone would do that. The only jurisdiction that doesn't do "unto the ages of ages", as far as I know, is my own, which instead uses the regrettable "forever and ever."

"Forever and ever" is traditional in English Christianity for as long as there's been English.
Old English said "On worulda woruld"

Anglo-Saxon was a dialect of Low German. I'd be surprised if you find any specifically Old English vocabulary in English Christianity. "For ever" and variants is found throughout the English Christian tradition. However, if you guys want to go back to "in yeoruld yeorulde" then say that.
Evidently you have never heard of the Gospel.
Quote
Can you cite instances where the English Church of any age has translated the phrase "unto ages of ages"?
Yep.

Then please do.
e.g. https://books.google.com/books?id=ZqkiMVJTM-4C&pg=PA54&dq=on+worlda+world+Doxology+Old+English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLlLXiw5HVAhWO3oMKHR1qCxkQ6AEINzAE#v=onepage&q=on%20worlda%20world%20Doxology%20Old%20English&f=false
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 08:08:05 PM by ialmisry »
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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I hope they don't change "... and on to the ages of ages."

I don't see why anyone would do that. The only jurisdiction that doesn't do "unto the ages of ages", as far as I know, is my own, which instead uses the regrettable "forever and ever."

"Forever and ever" is traditional in English Christianity for as long as there's been English.
Old English said "On worulda woruld"

Anglo-Saxon was a dialect of Low German. I'd be surprised if you find any specifically Old English vocabulary in English Christianity. "For ever" and variants is found throughout the English Christian tradition. However, if you guys want to go back to "in yeoruld yeorulde" then say that.
Evidently you have never heard of the Gospel.
Quote
Can you cite instances where the English Church of any age has translated the phrase "unto ages of ages"?
Yep.

Then please do.
e.g. https://books.google.com/books?id=ZqkiMVJTM-4C&pg=PA54&dq=on+worlda+world+Doxology+Old+English&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLlLXiw5HVAhWO3oMKHR1qCxkQ6AEINzAE#v=onepage&q=on%20worlda%20world%20Doxology%20Old%20English&f=false

Humorous.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline urg8rb8

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Anyway, thanks for hijacking my thread.

Back to our regularly scheduled broadcast:

Does anyone know anything about the AOC translation?
"Open my lips, Lord, and my mouth will declare your praise." - Psalm 51:15

Offline scamandrius

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Anyway, thanks for hijacking my thread.

Back to our regularly scheduled broadcast:

Does anyone know anything about the AOC translation?

I imagine that a lot of the specifics are going to be outlined at the Archdiocesan convention in Miami next week.  The Department of Liturgics and Translations as well as the Department of Music are going to be giving status updates on where they are.  As far as translating or retranslating the Liturgy, the Creed has been done but ONLY for Baptisms right now.  It is available in the Services of Initiation which is already for sale by the Archdiocese for $25.  Under Met. JOSEPH, there are probably going to be some major changes down the line to make sure everything is in sync.  I think a lot of the work that was done on Met. PHILIP will be undone (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
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Offline Iconodule

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Anyway, thanks for hijacking my thread.

Back to our regularly scheduled broadcast:

Does anyone know anything about the AOC translation?

I imagine that a lot of the specifics are going to be outlined at the Archdiocesan convention in Miami next week.  The Department of Liturgics and Translations as well as the Department of Music are going to be giving status updates on where they are.  As far as translating or retranslating the Liturgy, the Creed has been done but ONLY for Baptisms right now.  It is available in the Services of Initiation which is already for sale by the Archdiocese for $25.  Under Met. JOSEPH, there are probably going to be some major changes down the line to make sure everything is in sync.  I think a lot of the work that was done on Met. PHILIP will be undone (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

So what is the general goal of the revision? Are we talking about a stylistic overhaul or just some tweaks here are there?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline scamandrius

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Anyway, thanks for hijacking my thread.

Back to our regularly scheduled broadcast:

Does anyone know anything about the AOC translation?

I imagine that a lot of the specifics are going to be outlined at the Archdiocesan convention in Miami next week.  The Department of Liturgics and Translations as well as the Department of Music are going to be giving status updates on where they are.  As far as translating or retranslating the Liturgy, the Creed has been done but ONLY for Baptisms right now.  It is available in the Services of Initiation which is already for sale by the Archdiocese for $25.  Under Met. JOSEPH, there are probably going to be some major changes down the line to make sure everything is in sync.  I think a lot of the work that was done on Met. PHILIP will be undone (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

So what is the general goal of the revision? Are we talking about a stylistic overhaul or just some tweaks here are there?

HOnestly, I wish I knew.  I have asked people who are in the know about why the change in the creed was necessary. Their answers are all over the place but the reasons that I heard the most had to deal with consistency in English since the hierarchy has pretty much said that we are an English speaking jurisdiction, at least here in the USA.   I think they also realize that the 5 lb. Nassar English text is, as far as liturgy goes, obsolete. I also think  that newer or more accurate or at least more universal translations will be the impetus for new music to be composed by fine Byzantine composers like Dcn. John El-Massih and Chadi Karam among others can be composed which are more in line with traditional chant.  Right now, the creed's revision is only for baptisms, not for liturgies, but I don't think people are going to consciously make changes if those changes are very few (e.g. Creator for Maker; Ages for worlds). But, from what I heard, the changes in the creed (which are maybe four or fewer) are just the tip of the iceberg.  Like I said, I hope a more comprehensive overview and also justification for why these changes are occurring will be made clear.  One impression that I did not get is that these new translations are meant to come closer to what the Greeks and other jurisdictions are using.  It seems that each jurisdiction will continue to draw their own lines in the sand as far as which English translation to use.
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Offline RaphaCam

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Why is "world without end" humanist? This thread got very interesting, BTW.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Why is "world without end" humanist? This thread got very interesting, BTW.

The Reformation was largely a humanist movement. The Counter-Reformation too for that matter.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Why is "world without end" humanist?

It's not; originally the English word "world" has a connotation of "age" like the Latin "saeculum."
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Why is "world without end" humanist?

It's not; originally the English word "world" has a connotation of "age" like the Latin "saeculum."

Thanks, Henry.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Why is "world without end" humanist? This thread got very interesting, BTW.

The Reformation was largely a humanist movement. The Counter-Reformation too for that matter.

Not especially relevant to a phrase that predates the Reformation by several centuries.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Porter ODoran

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Why is "world without end" humanist? This thread got very interesting, BTW.

The Reformation was largely a humanist movement. The Counter-Reformation too for that matter.

Not especially relevant to a phrase that predates the Reformation by several centuries.

A phrase that began with the Reformation, imposed by Henry, under whom the first Divine Hours in English was produced.

I'm going to leave you to your -- whatever this is -- now. Have fun.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum