Author Topic: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death  (Read 2783 times)

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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2017, 10:37:11 AM »
I don't know about anglicans or methodists, but reformed/presbyterians, at least in my experience, reject sacramentalism and usually the pastors will give a zwinglian definition of Eucharist and say that that moment is just a memorial, no real presence in the elements.

They don't believe Christ is in the elements locally or that the elements are changed in any way, but traditionally they believed the act of receiving communicates the body and blood of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.  So, the Reformed doctrine has been the most fragile of all the explanations, the most subject to modernism's encroachments.

One of your sentences is unlike the other.

I don't see how.  The view of classical Reformed theology is more like receptionism.  It's true it leans more on a nominalist understanding philosophically of the relationship between signs and the things symbolized, but it's still far from memorialism.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2017, 10:45:46 AM »
That's true. The Calvinist view is very contorted and it is possible to squeeze some notion of "real presence" into it, but yes, "fragile" is the right word for it. The Reformed, much more than the Lutherans, were deeply influenced by Renaissance humanism and the Platonic revival and seem driven to divorce religion from materiality as much as possible. The eucharist seems to be the one thing flimsily tethering their doctrine to earth.
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #92 on: July 21, 2017, 10:49:30 AM »
There is a real tendency in the US for the Reformed to lose their identity and become like "wet-baby Baptists".  In continental European Reformed churches, the sacraments have always had more importance as the ordinary means of grace.

Well, I live in Brazil, and brazilian protestantism is highly influentiated by north-american protestantism, wich is extremely anti-catholic, so anything resembling roman catholicism is usually avoided, so any kind of view of the sacraments as a mean of grace is non-existent in most of protestant denominations.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #93 on: July 21, 2017, 01:00:22 PM »
I don't know about anglicans or methodists, but reformed/presbyterians, at least in my experience, reject sacramentalism and usually the pastors will give a zwinglian definition of Eucharist and say that that moment is just a memorial, no real presence in the elements.

They don't believe Christ is in the elements locally or that the elements are changed in any way, but traditionally they believed the act of receiving communicates the body and blood of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.  So, the Reformed doctrine has been the most fragile of all the explanations, the most subject to modernism's encroachments.

One of your sentences is unlike the other.

I don't see how.  The view of classical Reformed theology is more like receptionism.  It's true it leans more on a nominalist understanding philosophically of the relationship between signs and the things symbolized, but it's still far from memorialism.

I just don't see how a doctrine that was thoroughly materialist to begin with is uniquely threatened by modernism, but I guess it would depend on the nuance of what you meant.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2017, 09:53:26 PM »
Very smart fallen angel, very smart.

Even if God said that the gates of Hell will not overcome his church you convinced protestants that this is nottrue and helped them make a revolt.

After that you helped them choose and pick from all the gifts God put in his Church only Bible. They may have left outside the eternal life and they may have no life in them . Then you help them do the works so people would come to a Church without life probably instead of helping people go yto Orthodox Church that give people eternal life. You know that works may be of no use to a person without life in them.
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Offline maneki_neko

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #95 on: September 11, 2017, 12:21:00 AM »
As I said John 6:53 and John 6:54 are from Scripture.

The point y'all seem to miss (when posting replies or propositions such as some on this thread, as well as on various other threads over the years) is that our salvation depends on our faith in Christ, not on our understanding of Eucharistic doctrine.


Hi David, I was raised Protestant with a heavy Baptist upbringing so I think I have an understanding of what you mean, but for me Eucharistic doctrine is deeply entwined with "faith in Christ" and really are two sides of the same coin. Do I, or do I not have faith in Christ when he spoke of eating and drinking his flesh, that he spoke plainly about it being His body and that we should eat it? If it is His literal body (and it seems to me history supports that the earliest of Christians held this belief) I figure I ought to take the words of Christ seriously. If we have the chance to touch His actual body, then to me, that's the most black and white reality of whether or not we "accept Christ". It is a literal accepting of Christ (partaking in the Eucharist) or rejecting Christ (denying His body, the Eucharist).

I am not saying partaking in the Eucharist = automatic salvation, but that it's part of salvation. It's part of obedience. If we desire to be close to God, how much closer to God can the average person get on earth than the Eucharist? I see myself as the sick woman reaching out to grasp the hem of His garment. And yet how much more blessed are we to have His body and not merely His hem?

If a group is making a claim that they have the literal body of Christ, ought we not investigate that? It's a pretty bold statement to make. And if it's a true one, it radically changes a lot of things (at least it did for me).

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What if you are right about the bread and wine, and we are wrong? Does its validity, or efficacy, depend on our understanding of how it works, or on our taking the bread and wine in grateful and trusting remembrance of him whom we (like you) believe to be Lord, and to have been raised by God from the dead? If I go to the Lord's Table sorry for my sins, remembering the shed blood and broken body of our Lord on the Cross, and trusting that as God's means of atonement for my sin, why should I not receive the blessing which flows through the housel, even if my mind as a Baptist has misunderstood some of the doctrine attaching to it?

Actually I agree with a lot of what you wrote here, but it seems to me what you're saying is not wholly incompatible with Orthodox belief. I think this is one reason why we pray for the Lord to have mercy on us. Are we doing the most with what we have been given? Orthodox don't believe that salvation is solely given to those with the capability to intellectually understand all doctrinal minutiae (although I was raised the opposite; I was taught all babies, mentally handicapped, and anyone without a Baptist understanding of salvation was going to hell).

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The other wrong tree up which you bark when trying to persuade us is positing an "only true church". We don't believe there is such a thing, therefore your claim to be it fails to have an impact on us.
If there were an only true church, and if it did derive its validity from a chain of unbroken priestly succession back to the apostles, then the Orthodox Church would have a strong claim. But there isn't, and therefore it doesn't, as we see things.

I agree with the first part of your statement here as far as dialoguing with Protestants go; making a claim about a one true church doesn't make sense or hold authority as an immediate argument because the legitimacy of Protestantism rests upon the belief that no one group has a corner on truth.

However, I started to question the Bible and why it had such authority. Why as Protestants is the Bible given such authority if it was canonized by corrupt men (what I had been taught the church was once Constantine entered the picture) or the opinions of pious men (what other denominations may hold if they're more gracious towards that time period)? It's just men either way, not an "official" group of One True Church if such a thing doesn't exist. So if I don't like certain books in the Bible, why can't I just create my own? The One True Church thing became a legitimate point once I dug deeper about the Bible.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 12:21:17 AM by maneki_neko »
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #96 on: September 13, 2017, 07:36:49 AM »
Congratulation maneki. I see you walking toward life and eternal life leaving the realm of the dead.I see you start having faith in what Jesus said and in Bible and I see you starting to believe in Jesus words.

Read the Holy Liturgy of Apostle James and Holy Liturgy of Apostle and Evangelist Mark and see that the understandiung of Apostles is that you need to literaly drink and eat Jesus blood and flesh to have life and eternal life.

Have faith in Jesus iand in his words. They are true.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #97 on: September 13, 2017, 07:37:59 AM »
MAneki I kindli suggest Eastern Orthodox Church especially Russian Orthodox Church if possible. Russian Orthodox Church was said by the angel that it will keep the truth in the last times.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #98 on: September 13, 2017, 11:38:31 PM »
If I would be protestant pastor I would go one year to school to become orthodox priest and to give eternal life to people that love me.

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

But would this kind of Jesuit-esque infilitration, which Protestants have often used on the Orthodox, particularly the Oriental Orthodox church, be morally permissable from an Orthodox perspective?
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #99 on: September 13, 2017, 11:44:13 PM »
That's true. The Calvinist view is very contorted and it is possible to squeeze some notion of "real presence" into it, but yes, "fragile" is the right word for it. The Reformed, much more than the Lutherans, were deeply influenced by Renaissance humanism and the Platonic revival and seem driven to divorce religion from materiality as much as possible. The eucharist seems to be the one thing flimsily tethering their doctrine to earth.

I agree with you entirely regarding the humanist, neo-Platonic, crypto-Gnostic aspect of Reformed / Calvinist Christianity, but most Calvinists including I think John Calvin and John Knox would have vehemently denied being directly influenced by the Renaissance, humanism or Plato, or even Scholastic theology I think. 

Would you agree this influence was environmental and derives from the secular education and background of John Calvin, a lawyer by trade until he became a great heresiarch?
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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Offline LBK

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2017, 11:56:59 PM »

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

So you'd consider apostasy to indulge in a flight of fancy which has every chance of failure. Hmmm.  :o :P ::)
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2017, 12:04:03 AM »
The proof that Eastern orthodox Church has the blood and flesh of Jesus is a done by miracles in which Hoily Communion or bread and wine are literally transformed in blood and flesh on the Holy Liturgy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbcL4mkNfzM
Another such miracle was reported in our days in Romanian Orthodox Church

Another prroof that Eastern orthodox Church has the blood and flesh of Jesus or God are the writings of the Apostles beside Bible like Holy Liturgy of Apostle and Evangelist Mark http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0718.htm  He reffers to Holy Communion as flesh and blood of Jesus
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2017, 08:20:52 AM »
When you try to bring protestants to life fallen angel may intervene.
You are smart he is smarter.
Hou have power he can outpower you.
You have money he has a lot.
The way to defeat fallen angel is to bring God closer to and through prayer. So pray to God for protestants to come to life and to enlinghten you how you can help.`
Puttiung on a paper what you know and handling to protestants may be powerful enough and save their life.


If you read above and are protestants and in one month you are not orthodox or russian orthodox being in a state of death is time to find prayer groups on the internet and toi ask them to pray for you to be saved and to come to life and to eternal life. You can ask God to teach you religion the way he sees it.
You can not remain in a state without life at all costs.

And you can not teach children to go to protestantism because Bible says if yoyu cause these little ones to stumple beetter is to put a stone on your neck and throw it in to sea.
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Offline pasadi97

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2017, 08:34:13 AM »
Once in orthodox Church it is for life. If you exits and go to some other Church you may go to Hell.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2017, 02:12:41 PM »

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

So you'd consider apostasy to indulge in a flight of fancy which has every chance of failure. Hmmm.  :o :P ::)

No, because I would secretly remain Orthodox.  I would engage in dissimulation, in order to take the Protestant congregation into the Orthodox church.  And if the project looked to be a failure, I would abandon it.

Protestants have used these tactics against the Oriental Orthodox; I believe the Jesuits used these tactics for missionary purposes in several contexts; the real question is, is it ethical for Orthodox to engage in dissimulation to infiltrate heterodox churches and guide them into Orthodoxy?

Specifically, can an Orthodox dissimulate his Orthodoxy and assume a veil of Protestantism while remaining Orthodoxy and without engaging in an ethical contradiction contrary to the faith.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2017, 02:17:44 PM »

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

So you'd consider apostasy to indulge in a flight of fancy which has every chance of failure. Hmmm.  :o :P ::)

No, because I would secretly remain Orthodox.  I would engage in dissimulation, in order to take the Protestant congregation into the Orthodox church.  And if the project looked to be a failure, I would abandon it.

Protestants have used these tactics against the Oriental Orthodox; I believe the Jesuits used these tactics for missionary purposes in several contexts; the real question is, is it ethical for Orthodox to engage in dissimulation to infiltrate heterodox churches and guide them into Orthodoxy?

Phrased another way: Is it ethical to deny Christ so that you can later praise him?

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2017, 02:23:21 PM »
But if predatory protestants and Jesuits did it, it must be okay, right? Heck, even Jim Jones was in on this dissimulation action!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 02:23:39 PM by Iconodule »
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“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2017, 03:31:31 PM »
MAneki I kindli suggest Eastern Orthodox Church especially Russian Orthodox Church if possible. Russian Orthodox Church was said by the angel that it will keep the truth in the last times.

Which Angel is "the angel"?

Your sowing seeds of division by claiming one jurisdiction of the Church is better or preferable to others. 

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2017, 03:38:43 PM »

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

So you'd consider apostasy to indulge in a flight of fancy which has every chance of failure. Hmmm.  :o :P ::)

No, because I would secretly remain Orthodox.  I would engage in dissimulation, in order to take the Protestant congregation into the Orthodox church.  And if the project looked to be a failure, I would abandon it.

Protestants have used these tactics against the Oriental Orthodox; I believe the Jesuits used these tactics for missionary purposes in several contexts; the real question is, is it ethical for Orthodox to engage in dissimulation to infiltrate heterodox churches and guide them into Orthodoxy?

Phrased another way: Is it ethical to deny Christ so that you can later praise him?

Phrased another way: what do y'all think about being an Orthodox Harriet Tubman? Lit.
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2017, 07:10:53 AM »
Quote
Protestants have used these tactics against the Oriental Orthodox; I believe the Jesuits used these tactics for missionary purposes in several contexts; the real question is, is it ethical for Orthodox to engage in dissimulation to infiltrate heterodox churches and guide them into Orthodoxy?

No, it is not ethical to infiltrate a religious group, pretend that you are one of them to lead them to your religious group, a christian must avoid deception and dissimulation.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #110 on: September 15, 2017, 11:07:36 AM »

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

So you'd consider apostasy to indulge in a flight of fancy which has every chance of failure. Hmmm.  :o :P ::)

No, because I would secretly remain Orthodox.  I would engage in dissimulation, in order to take the Protestant congregation into the Orthodox church.  And if the project looked to be a failure, I would abandon it.

Protestants have used these tactics against the Oriental Orthodox; I believe the Jesuits used these tactics for missionary purposes in several contexts; the real question is, is it ethical for Orthodox to engage in dissimulation to infiltrate heterodox churches and guide them into Orthodoxy?

Phrased another way: Is it ethical to deny Christ so that you can later praise him?

No.

However, consider this scenario:

I become the pastor of a congregational church interested in ancient-future worship.  In the process of doing this I openly state I am baptized Orthodox, and if pressed, would not deny being an Orthodox Christian.  In fact, I might advertise my Orthodoxy and my familiarity with the Orthodox liturgical rites in order to get hired as "their man" to get them the ancient-future worship they want.

Then, over the course of the following years, I would implement the Orthodox liturgy, while satisfying the future aspect by installing iPads in the pews to provide interactive devotional aids to the service.  I would seek to build a following.

Then, at an opportune moment, I would propose to the congregation that we join the Orthodox Church.  To make this appealing to the ancient-future set, I would describe the thrills of chrismation and the hierarchical divine liturgy, and also dissuade anyones fears about the church being less open or friendly to women by stressing the antidoron and reading plenty of Metropolitan Kallistos Ware.  Indeed we would study it actively in the years proceeding up to this.

I would also not formally renounce my membership of the Orthodox Church, and ideally, a bishop would approve of the plan as a prototype of a procedure designed to scoop ancienf-future and emergent congregations, which I believe are ripe for conversion, into Holy Orthodoxy.

This approach would avoid the dissimulation I mentioned earlier.

Another even safer approach would be for the Orthodox Church to actively market itself to ancient future congregations.  Also, we should publish service books targeting them.

One great example of a book I see being perfect for the ancient future set is Praying With The Orthodox Tradition, which features a forward by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware.  Its actually a bit novel, in that the hours in it are composed from prayers said by the priest or bishop in ancient and disused codices, prayers which are no longer used by the Eastern church but which were a part of its liturgical life 1200 years ago.

The book, along with A Psalter for Prayer, is one of the two most user friendly prayer books I have seen.  Both I believe would lend themselves to congregational use.

Now, this last bit may be controversial, but we've seen videos of Episcopalians and others attempting to celibrate our liturgy.  I think we should offer to help, using the fact that they want to use our prayers as an inroad to making contact; if the people in Episcopal or other churches start routinely using our liturgy, they will be more disposed to join our church, and their congregation or denomination will in a strict sense be engaging in more correct worship, albeit in a situation of ecclesiological and canonical irregularity. 

I think we should celibrate the fact that Byzantine icons are popping up in places like Westminster Abbey.  This is to our advantage.  The mainline churches and some evangelicals are becoming disposed to worship like we do.  We are getting into their hearts.  The situation is the exact opposite of that faced by the Oxford Movement of Anglo Catholics in the 1830s, when most Englishmen regarded rhe idea of the Mass as anathema; within 100 years, the Church of England had attempted to introduce a BCP reformed along Catholic lined, had large numbers of Anglo Catholic parishes, and even had parishes like St. Magnus the Martyr where the Roman mass was being said in Latin.  Today, one can say that throughout most of the Anglican Communion, Anglo Catholicism has won, and what today is considered low church Anglicanism would have been considered high church a century ago, with the exception of a few evangelical parishes which have gone the praise and worship route, like Holy Trinity Brampton.  High churchmanship is normative.

Also, huge numbers of English converted to Roman Catholicism, crossing the Tiber from Anglo Catholicism, a process which continues even today.


We face an infinitely better strategic situation in that people are actively copying and using our services and are trying to incorporate Eastern Christian "spirituality" into their parishes.  Some are praying the Jesus Prayer!  Look at the Anglican Rosary for an example.  They are using our icons and praying our prayers.

As i see it, we have two options: we can resent them for counterfeiting us and bogarting our style, or we can interpret this as an opportunity for evangelism, and seize rhe day in a positive way.  Surely the latter option is preferrable.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Run from Protestantism with the same speed you run from death
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2017, 09:59:57 AM »

The thought has entered into my mind to become a Protestant minister just to lead a congregation out of Protestantism and into Orthodoxy.  Likely in a Protestant church that is experimenting with the Emergent and Ancient Future concepts, perhaps a parish of the United Church of Christ, which is ultra liberal, theologically, but this open mindedness might make them receptive to Eastern theology and so on.  A parish like the ECUSA parish of St. Gregory of Nyssa in San Francisco might seem on the outside to be an easier target, but with the Episcopal church, the diocese owns all the buildings, whereas with a congregational church, the congregation owns it, and if you can persuade them to embrace Orthodoxy, they could leave the UCC or whatever group they are affiliated with to move to us.

So you'd consider apostasy to indulge in a flight of fancy which has every chance of failure. Hmmm.  :o :P ::)

No, because I would secretly remain Orthodox.  I would engage in dissimulation, in order to take the Protestant congregation into the Orthodox church.  And if the project looked to be a failure, I would abandon it.

Protestants have used these tactics against the Oriental Orthodox; I believe the Jesuits used these tactics for missionary purposes in several contexts; the real question is, is it ethical for Orthodox to engage in dissimulation to infiltrate heterodox churches and guide them into Orthodoxy?

Phrased another way: Is it ethical to deny Christ so that you can later praise him?

No.

However, consider this scenario:

I become the pastor of a congregational church interested in ancient-future worship.  In the process of doing this I openly state I am baptized Orthodox, and if pressed, would not deny being an Orthodox Christian.  In fact, I might advertise my Orthodoxy and my familiarity with the Orthodox liturgical rites in order to get hired as "their man" to get them the ancient-future worship they want.

Then, over the course of the following years, I would implement the Orthodox liturgy, while satisfying the future aspect by installing iPads in the pews to provide interactive devotional aids to the service.  I would seek to build a following.

Then, at an opportune moment, I would propose to the congregation that we join the Orthodox Church.  To make this appealing to the ancient-future set, I would describe the thrills of chrismation and the hierarchical divine liturgy, and also dissuade anyones fears about the church being less open or friendly to women by stressing the antidoron and reading plenty of Metropolitan Kallistos Ware.  Indeed we would study it actively in the years proceeding up to this.

I would also not formally renounce my membership of the Orthodox Church, and ideally, a bishop would approve of the plan as a prototype of a procedure designed to scoop ancienf-future and emergent congregations, which I believe are ripe for conversion, into Holy Orthodoxy.

This approach would avoid the dissimulation I mentioned earlier.

Phrased another way: Is it ethical to commit adultery if you have the proper clerical clearance and you eventually plan to make an honest woman of her?

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Another even safer approach would be for the Orthodox Church to actively market itself to ancient future congregations.  Also, we should publish service books targeting them.
I'm super wary of any instance of "marketing" being introduced into the equation.

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One great example of a book I see being perfect for the ancient future set is Praying With The Orthodox Tradition, which features a forward by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware.  Its actually a bit novel, in that the hours in it are composed from prayers said by the priest or bishop in ancient and disused codices, prayers which are no longer used by the Eastern church but which were a part of its liturgical life 1200 years ago.
Interesting, sure, but novel sounds like the right word.

I believe this is another instance where I think you've got a rosier view of liturgical tourism than I have. I also think you fundamentally misunderstand the Ancient-Future mindset.

I had a brief season in a sort of emerging SBC congregation (a brief, passing thing that had to do more with their pastoral flexibility at that time in my life rather than an attraction to their worship). My own experience says that interest in ancient forms is more in novelty than strict adherence to that which was passed down. If in their mind it helps, they'll hold onto it, but if it doesn't, there's no need to cleave to Tradition.

For example: I've seen numerous performances of Phos Hilaron by praise bands.  The age of the song gives it venerability, but they're not particularly interested in traditional renderings of it. And while incense -- for example -- may be used, nothing is censed.

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Now, this last bit may be controversial, but we've seen videos of Episcopalians and others attempting to celibrate our liturgy.  I think we should offer to help, using the fact that they want to use our prayers as an inroad to making contact; if the people in Episcopal or other churches start routinely using our liturgy, they will be more disposed to join our church, and their congregation or denomination will in a strict sense be engaging in more correct worship, albeit in a situation of ecclesiological and canonical irregularity.

I think we should celibrate the fact that Byzantine icons are popping up in places like Westminster Abbey.  This is to our advantage.  The mainline churches and some evangelicals are becoming disposed to worship like we do.  We are getting into their hearts.  The situation is the exact opposite of that faced by the Oxford Movement of Anglo Catholics in the 1830s, when most Englishmen regarded rhe idea of the Mass as anathema; within 100 years, the Church of England had attempted to introduce a BCP reformed along Catholic lined, had large numbers of Anglo Catholic parishes, and even had parishes like St. Magnus the Martyr where the Roman mass was being said in Latin.  Today, one can say that throughout most of the Anglican Communion, Anglo Catholicism has won, and what today is considered low church Anglicanism would have been considered high church a century ago, with the exception of a few evangelical parishes which have gone the praise and worship route, like Holy Trinity Brampton.  High churchmanship is normative.
Anglo-Catholic liturgy has won.

The conservative Anglicans are still very much Protestants.

If they're going anywhere, the odds are 9:1 they're headed to Rome.

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Also, huge numbers of English converted to Roman Catholicism, crossing the Tiber from Anglo Catholicism, a process which continues even today.
While I think you and I both have fairly soft views of the Roman schism, let's not pretend that it's equivalent, at least culturally, to convert to Rome versus the Russian exarchate attached to Constantinople or the Antiochian archdiocese.

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We face an infinitely better strategic situation in that people are actively copying and using our services and are trying to incorporate Eastern Christian "spirituality" into their parishes.  Some are praying the Jesus Prayer!  Look at the Anglican Rosary for an example.  They are using our icons and praying our prayers.

As i see it, we have two options: we can resent them for counterfeiting us and bogarting our style, or we can interpret this as an opportunity for evangelism, and seize rhe day in a positive way.  Surely the latter option is preferrable.
The latter is preferable, and if the examples you cited are conversation starters, great. I just don't think they're the great foot in the door that you do.

Just FTR, I don't mean to sound like I'm pooh-poohing missionary work.
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