Author Topic: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis  (Read 3694 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2017, 03:53:04 AM »
There was already some hesitation among American hierarchs. The EP just made the official move to reboot the process. There's no reason to treat all the workings of the Church as scandals. Those like the first author who seem to want every disagreement to end in schism had better think what they may be doing to the Body of Christ.

1.  What hesitation?  Bishop SEVASTIANOS was highly recommended for this post. 

My Metropolitan had asked for further consideration.

Your Metropolitan wanted one particular candidate and, so it would seem, only that one.  Otherwise, everyone seemed on board with Bp Sevastianos.   

Quote
Quote
2.  But, in the entire history where the Synod was tasked with naming a successor, this move of rejecting all three names is unprecedented which is not to say that the EP doesn't have that right (it does), but a move like this has many speculating as to why this is happening now especially for such an important Metropolis like Chicago.

I doubt it's unprecedented.

If he had rejected one or two particular candidates, then he would be doing more than just resetting the procedure. He'd be picking, and that's not what this is about in spite of the cynical critics always looking for scandal and schism, which is against the Gospel.

According to this report, the Patriarchate approved the list from which they chose the three finalists in March.  The reason for "rebooting the process" (to use your expression) at this time was because the list was not comprehensive enough. 

Something doesn't smell right.   

The first author seems to hope this is a break between the Archdiocese and the Patriarch. You seem to think this is a portion of the Archdiocese pulling the Patriarch's strings. If something's bad but nobody can agree on the bad guy, then maybe it isn't so bad. But why are some of you bent on making this anything bad, in the first place -- why can't it just be a process of brethren finding harmony? If we "smell" around cynically for scandal isn't healthy for us or the bishops. I really don't understand. I'm really disappointed.

I wish the Church operated in the ideal fashion you seem desperately to want it to operate, but unfortunately it's not always so.  "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us" can get messy because of that pesky "us".  Ultimately we trust the system, but accepting that reality need not be cynicism or scandalmongering.  It can also be being "wise as serpents".  And sometimes "us" have a point.  "Us" have saved the Church from time to time when bishops were trying to kill her.

This is a valid point.   From an EO perspective, take a look at the Council of Florence, when you had most of the powerful bishops supporting it, and only one major bishop standing in opposition, relying on the laity for support (who provided that support even with the sure knowledge that it would lead to Turkocratia, the leverage used at Florence by the Latins to force a reunion on their terms).
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2017, 04:10:55 AM »
Perhaps the best approach is to venerate the office of the bishop and recognize bishops as for the most part loving and pious masters of the church, who are nonetheless not infallible, and on occasion, if they err seriously, it behooves senior and well respected members of the laity to complain privately or publically about it.

Church politics is quite nasty in general.

There is one thing by the way that I am finding slightly disagreeable about this situation: GOAA is not an autonomous archbishophric, yet at the same time its bishops apparently are not members of the Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

I can understand not having autonomous churches like the Church of Finland not have their bishops in the Holy Synod, but for an archbishophric that is not autonomous, I don't quite get the point of that.   

One major problem in Orthodox ecclesiology is that, even with autonomous churches, several churches seem to be inadvertantly creating quasi-Cardinalates in the form of the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate, which is separate from and has authority over the Holy Synods of the regional churches administered by that Patriarchate.   In the EP one can criticize in particular the large number of powerful titular bishops in the Phanar.  It feels to me like this canonical arrangement will lead to alienation and frustration on the part of the regional archbishophrics and autonomous churches, which may find themselves overruled on the matter of the selection of a bishop for what is actually a good and valid reason, but, because they were not involved in the decision, the action would seem arbitrary and capricious.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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Offline Alpo

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2017, 10:06:24 AM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2017, 10:48:00 AM »
But why bring up the OCA?

I just said why. People attack my jurisdiction with the idea it strengthens their jurisdiction's claims to unify the faith here in America.

No one mentioned the OCA (let alone attack the GOA in order to promote OCA claims in America) before you did.  You are reaching into a hat and pulling out an unrelated problem to blow smoke.

It has happened here quite often that an attack on the GOARCH is linked to OCA by OCA fans. And when it happens, it does so in a vigorously memorable fashion.

It didn't happen here until you tried to make it happen.   

Quote
But leave that all aside, if you can, to consider my underlying point that peace and unity are not to be found in sniffing after schisms and prophesying scandals.

That's your perception of what is going on here.  Undoubtedly, there are people who do just that.  But it doesn't follow that all people with concerns are simply stirring up trouble. 
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2017, 10:48:46 AM »
There already is a hierarch in Chicago.

You see what I mean, Mor? I mean, come on.



???
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2017, 10:53:08 AM »
Article 14
Election of a Metropolitan

a. In every regular meeting and in consultation with the Archdiocesan Council, the Eparchial Synod reviews and modifies, through additions and deletions, the list of those eligible for the office of Metropolitan. The Auxiliary Bishops are automatically included in this list by virtue of their office. The Eparchial Synod submits the list so completed to the Ecumenical Patriarchate for its approval. The list becomes definitive after its ratification by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and is then officially published by the Archdiocese.

b. Immediately following a vacancy in the See of a Metropolis, but no later than forty (40) days thereafter, the Archbishop convenes the Eparchial Synod in a timely fashion, for the purpose of nominating, after soliciting the opinion of the members of the Archdiocesan Council, three persons, out of whom one shall be elected to fill the vacancy of the Metropolis. The nominees are taken from the above mentioned list of those eligible, pursuant to the procedure provided for by the Regulations of the Eparchial Synod.

c. The list of three nominees thus established is submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. According to the existing practice, the Holy and Sacred Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate elects one of the three as the new Metropolitan.

d. A nominee for the office of Metropolitan shall be a person of deep faith and ethos, a Greek Orthodox Christian, a graduate of an academically recognized and accredited Orthodox school of theology of the highest level, have a fluent knowledge of spoken and written English and Greek, and have a proven ability in administration and pastoral work. In addition, the nominee must have all the pertinent qualifications defined by the Holy Canons, shall not be less than thirty-five (35) years of age, and shall have had a period of sufficient service in the Archdiocese.

e. Those fulfilling the above conditions are candidates and are included in the list of eligible candidates regardless of the place of residence during the time of the election.

https://www.goarch.org/documents/charter

From what I understand from the article the process reached c than went back to a because there is some question as to whether d and e were fulfilled?

I guess what I'd want to know is, assuming the reports are trustworthy, why the Patriarchate approved the list before an election took place (14a) and, after the election took place, decided there was a problem with the list.  How often does it happen that the Patriarchate second-guesses itself in such matters?   
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2017, 10:53:50 AM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

But my heart belongs to ROCOR. 
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2017, 11:55:24 AM »
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2017, 12:03:30 PM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

Mor, if you're not seeing this, maybe you need a new prescription.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2017, 12:04:51 PM »
Church politics is quite nasty in general.

At least people are eager to think so.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2017, 12:10:42 PM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

Mor, if you're not seeing this, maybe you need a new prescription.

That post was some twelve hours or so after you first introduced the OCA into discussion.  I know a lot of people have problems with their OCNet timestamps, but I don't think the forum is displaying posts out of chronological order.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2017, 12:12:53 PM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

Mor, if you're not seeing this, maybe you need a new prescription.

That post was some twelve hours or so after you first introduced the OCA into discussion.  I know a lot of people have problems with their OCNet timestamps, but I don't think the forum is displaying posts out of chronological order.

As long as we're ignoring the larger point to be children, Isa brought OCA up first in the thread. Shockingly uncharacteristic, I know.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2017, 12:25:37 PM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

Mor, if you're not seeing this, maybe you need a new prescription.

That post was some twelve hours or so after you first introduced the OCA into discussion.  I know a lot of people have problems with their OCNet timestamps, but I don't think the forum is displaying posts out of chronological order.

As long as we're ignoring the larger point to be children...

Speak for yourself.

Quote
...Isa brought OCA up first in the thread. Shockingly uncharacteristic, I know.

How would you know that considering the OCA wasn't named in the post at all?  There are something like five bishops in Chicago, and one of them is the auxiliary bishop of the GOA Metropolis of Chicago. 

For someone who complains pietistically about sniffing out schisms and prophesying scandals, you are not above fomenting them in your own way.   
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2017, 12:29:23 PM »
So what is your concern in this case, Mor? That independence of the American churches be upheld? I'm trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt that there could be more than gossip here, and that sounds to me like what a legitimate concern might be.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2017, 12:33:10 PM »
So what is your concern in this case, Mor? That independence of the American churches be upheld? I'm trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt that there could be more than gossip here, and that sounds to me like what a legitimate concern might be.

I'm an interested observer asking questions about a process based on publicly available documents and news reports. 
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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2017, 12:37:56 PM »
And then there's this...

Interesting article. If my reading of the GOAA Charter is correct (50%50% chance really) Metropolitan Nikitis could/should be entered on the list of all eligible candidates but that does not require the local eparchial synod from including it as one of the 3 names it submits to the EP.

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2017, 12:39:09 PM »
So what is your concern in this case, Mor? That independence of the American churches be upheld? I'm trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt that there could be more than gossip here, and that sounds to me like what a legitimate concern might be.

I'm an interested observer asking questions about a process based on publicly available documents and news reports.

Then I gave you too much credit, but I don't regret it.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2017, 12:50:18 PM »
So what is your concern in this case, Mor? That independence of the American churches be upheld? I'm trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt that there could be more than gossip here, and that sounds to me like what a legitimate concern might be.

I'm an interested observer asking questions about a process based on publicly available documents and news reports.

Then I gave you too much credit, but I don't regret it.

lol
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2017, 12:51:20 PM »
There already is a hierarch in Chicago.

You see what I mean, Mor? I mean, come on.



???



No love for the Serbs?  I've got plenty of love for the Serbs.
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2017, 12:54:21 PM »
There already is a hierarch in Chicago.

You see what I mean, Mor? I mean, come on.



???



No love for the Serbs?  I've got plenty of love for the Serbs.

Lol, Grayslake!  Thanks, Mor.

Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2017, 12:55:57 PM »
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2017, 12:58:17 PM »
I like the Romanian hat best.  The OCA one is atrocious.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2017, 01:04:57 PM »
And then there's this...

Interesting article. If my reading of the GOAA Charter is correct (50%50% chance really) Metropolitan Nikitis could/should be entered on the list of all eligible candidates but that does not require the local eparchial synod from including it as one of the 3 names it submits to the EP.

That's my understanding. 

For the record, the list prior to the now-nixed election.
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2017, 01:05:53 PM »
I like the Romanian hat best.  The OCA one is atrocious.

That ugly staff helps you ignore the hat. 
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #70 on: July 14, 2017, 01:10:25 PM »
I like the Romanian hat best.  The OCA one is atrocious.

That ugly staff helps you ignore the hat.

The best Chicago could offer, unfortunately.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2017, 06:08:43 PM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

Mor, if you're not seeing this, maybe you need a new prescription.

That post was some twelve hours or so after you first introduced the OCA into discussion.  I know a lot of people have problems with their OCNet timestamps, but I don't think the forum is displaying posts out of chronological order.

Nah. I just didn't read the whole thread before posting.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 06:09:26 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2017, 09:23:34 PM »
And then there's this...

Interesting article. If my reading of the GOAA Charter is correct (50%50% chance really) Metropolitan Nikitis could/should be entered on the list of all eligible candidates but that does not require the local eparchial synod from including it as one of the 3 names it submits to the EP.

I seem to remember predicting that Florida-born, Metropolitan Nikitis will be the next Ecumenical Patriarch. Maybe there is a connection here.

"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2017, 09:50:38 PM »
And then there's this...

Interesting article. If my reading of the GOAA Charter is correct (50%50% chance really) Metropolitan Nikitis could/should be entered on the list of all eligible candidates but that does not require the local eparchial synod from including it as one of the 3 names it submits to the EP.

I seem to remember predicting that Florida-born, Metropolitan Nikitis will be the next Ecumenical Patriarch. Maybe there is a connection here.

The truth comes out, and the conspirators were off by a mile. Opus118 is the one pulling the Patriarchate's strings.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2017, 11:17:16 PM »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #75 on: July 14, 2017, 11:23:56 PM »
Slightly amusing considering that there already is an American church which chooses it's own hierarchs without outside interference.

Mor, if you're not seeing this, maybe you need a new prescription.

That post was some twelve hours or so after you first introduced the OCA into discussion.  I know a lot of people have problems with their OCNet timestamps, but I don't think the forum is displaying posts out of chronological order.

As long as we're ignoring the larger point to be children...

Speak for yourself.

Quote
...Isa brought OCA up first in the thread. Shockingly uncharacteristic, I know.

How would you know that considering the OCA wasn't named in the post at all?  There are something like five bishops in Chicago, and one of them is the auxiliary bishop of the GOA Metropolis of Chicago
you are correct, as it was to him that I was referring. If I meant the OCA, I would have said more, as I have plenty to say.

But don't confuse Porter with the facts.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #76 on: July 14, 2017, 11:26:12 PM »
That article Mor linked pretty much speaks my mind. American weak brothers, living half-Orthodox lives, racist, we need Bp. Nikitas to teach us Christian manners.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #77 on: July 14, 2017, 11:27:40 PM »
And then there's this...
what do they have against widowers?

Good question. I suppose they are not monastic enough? Traditionally, Greek widows may as well have been the walking dead. But widowers didn't have such outcaste status.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #78 on: July 14, 2017, 11:41:28 PM »
There already is a hierarch in Chicago.

You see what I mean, Mor? I mean, come on.



???



No love for the Serbs?  I've got plenty of love for the Serbs.
Lol, Grayslake!  Thanks, Mor.

I love Ukrainians

And Serbs, and Russians and Romanians even still.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 11:42:09 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #79 on: July 14, 2017, 11:46:57 PM »
That article Mor linked pretty much speaks my mind. American weak brothers, living half-Orthodox lives, racist, we need Bp. Nikitas to teach us Christian manners.
Whatever happened to him giving up his US citizenship for Turkish citizenship?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2017, 12:13:55 AM »
That article Mor linked pretty much speaks my mind. American weak brothers, living half-Orthodox lives, racist, we need Bp. Nikitas to teach us Christian manners.
Whatever happened to him giving up his US citizenship for Turkish citizenship?

Several bishops have been given Turkish citizenship in a special capacity, without, to my knowledge, having to give up their original citizenships. My Metropolitan is one. It's a concession from the Turkish government with an eye toward keeping the EP intact.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Basil 320

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2017, 06:19:12 AM »
Article 14
Election of a Metropolitan

a. In every regular meeting and in consultation with the Archdiocesan Council, the Eparchial Synod reviews and modifies, through additions and deletions, the list of those eligible for the office of Metropolitan. The Auxiliary Bishops are automatically included in this list by virtue of their office. The Eparchial Synod submits the list so completed to the Ecumenical Patriarchate for its approval. The list becomes definitive after its ratification by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and is then officially published by the Archdiocese.

b. Immediately following a vacancy in the See of a Metropolis, but no later than forty (40) days thereafter, the Archbishop convenes the Eparchial Synod in a timely fashion, for the purpose of nominating, after soliciting the opinion of the members of the Archdiocesan Council, three persons, out of whom one shall be elected to fill the vacancy of the Metropolis. The nominees are taken from the above mentioned list of those eligible, pursuant to the procedure provided for by the Regulations of the Eparchial Synod.

c. The list of three nominees thus established is submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. According to the existing practice, the Holy and Sacred Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate elects one of the three as the new Metropolitan.

d. A nominee for the office of Metropolitan shall be a person of deep faith and ethos, a Greek Orthodox Christian, a graduate of an academically recognized and accredited Orthodox school of theology of the highest level, have a fluent knowledge of spoken and written English and Greek, and have a proven ability in administration and pastoral work. In addition, the nominee must have all the pertinent qualifications defined by the Holy Canons, shall not be less than thirty-five (35) years of age, and shall have had a period of sufficient service in the Archdiocese.

e. Those fulfilling the above conditions are candidates and are included in the list of eligible candidates regardless of the place of residence during the time of the election.

https://www.goarch.org/documents/charter

From what I understand from the article the process reached c than went back to a because there is some question as to whether d and e were fulfilled?

I guess what I'd want to know is, assuming the reports are trustworthy, why the Patriarchate approved the list before an election took place (14a) and, after the election took place, decided there was a problem with the list.  How often does it happen that the Patriarchate second-guesses itself in such matters?   

The answer is a cleric who was within GOArch prior to 1996, but was elevated to the episcopacy and was assigned to two other posts under the Ecumenical Patriarchate and outside the Holy Archdiocese since then, is the unofficial choice of His All Holiness to fill the See of Chicago. So, the alleged issue with the eligible candidates list is classic "Byzantine Intrigue" intended to confuse the issue.
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2017, 06:44:55 AM »
The venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is as wrong with this unprecedented act as it was with its election to succeed Archbishop Iakovos in 1996. The Holy Eparchial Synod appropriately, methodically, and prayerfully deliberated its "Three Person Ballot."

Archbishop Demetrios has traveled these muddy waters before and I am hoping he devises a strategy to demonstrate to the Ecumenical Throne the error of their awfully aggressive, unprecedented action.

But we must not back down and submit to the confusion the Throne is attempting to foster. That's what they'd love, to give them a reason to impose unilateral action.

The GOArch clergy and faithful must unite in support of the properly constituted "Three Person Ballot." We may need to rally and mount a campaign such as was mounted by GOAL (Greek Orthodox American Leaders) in 1997-'99. Hopefully, we can keep a level head, while remaining focused and determined to support the "Three Person Ballot" as it was properly constituted, but be prepared for them to cite "disobedience," another one of their means to act unilaterally, without regard to the process in the Charter.

This rejection of the "Three Person Ballot" demonstrates it's also past the time that GOArch acts to advocate for the semi-autonomous Constitutional Charter that the GOArch Holy Synod of Bishops submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 2000.
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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2017, 07:31:48 AM »
I almost want to laugh at the responses to the news stories.  As usual, both sources have decided to take a kernel of truth and mix it in with a barrel of their POV to spin.  Each one supports a specific candidate and perspective.  Please, just pray for the Synods involved (Eparchial and Patriarchal).
I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.  

How in Mor's good name
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2017, 12:48:31 PM »
The venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is as wrong with this unprecedented act as it was with its election to succeed Archbishop Iakovos in 1996. The Holy Eparchial Synod appropriately, methodically, and prayerfully deliberated its "Three Person Ballot."

Archbishop Demetrios has traveled these muddy waters before and I am hoping he devises a strategy to demonstrate to the Ecumenical Throne the error of their awfully aggressive, unprecedented action.

But we must not back down and submit to the confusion the Throne is attempting to foster. That's what they'd love, to give them a reason to impose unilateral action.

The GOArch clergy and faithful must unite in support of the properly constituted "Three Person Ballot." We may need to rally and mount a campaign such as was mounted by GOAL (Greek Orthodox American Leaders) in 1997-'99. Hopefully, we can keep a level head, while remaining focused and determined to support the "Three Person Ballot" as it was properly constituted, but be prepared for them to cite "disobedience," another one of their means to act unilaterally, without regard to the process in the Charter.

This rejection of the "Three Person Ballot" demonstrates it's also past the time that GOArch acts to advocate for the semi-autonomous Constitutional Charter that the GOArch Holy Synod of Bishops submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 2000.

You're blaming the EP for the end of Iakovos? Put the blame where it belongs, on lay scoundrels like Stephanopoulos.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2017, 12:48:44 PM »
I almost want to laugh at the responses to the news stories.  As usual, both sources have decided to take a kernel of truth and mix it in with a barrel of their POV to spin.  Each one supports a specific candidate and perspective.  Please, just pray for the Synods involved (Eparchial and Patriarchal).

Amen.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Basil 320

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2017, 01:31:48 PM »
The venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is as wrong with this unprecedented act as it was with its election to succeed Archbishop Iakovos in 1996. The Holy Eparchial Synod appropriately, methodically, and prayerfully deliberated its "Three Person Ballot."

Archbishop Demetrios has traveled these muddy waters before and I am hoping he devises a strategy to demonstrate to the Ecumenical Throne the error of their awfully aggressive, unprecedented action.

But we must not back down and submit to the confusion the Throne is attempting to foster. That's what they'd love, to give them a reason to impose unilateral action.

The GOArch clergy and faithful must unite in support of the properly constituted "Three Person Ballot." We may need to rally and mount a campaign such as was mounted by GOAL (Greek Orthodox American Leaders) in 1997-'99. Hopefully, we can keep a level head, while remaining focused and determined to support the "Three Person Ballot" as it was properly constituted, but be prepared for them to cite "disobedience," another one of their means to act unilaterally, without regard to the process in the Charter.

This rejection of the "Three Person Ballot" demonstrates it's also past the time that GOArch acts to advocate for the semi-autonomous Constitutional Charter that the GOArch Holy Synod of Bishops submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 2000.

You're blaming the EP for the end of Iakovos? Put the blame where it belongs, on lay scoundrels like Stephanopoulos.

I was blaming the Ecumenical Patriarchate for the election of his successor, Archbishop Spyridon, whose 3 year Archepiscopal tenure saw more discord in the Holy Archdiocese than it had witnessed in 67 years.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2017, 01:51:23 PM »
The venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is as wrong with this unprecedented act as it was with its election to succeed Archbishop Iakovos in 1996. The Holy Eparchial Synod appropriately, methodically, and prayerfully deliberated its "Three Person Ballot."

Archbishop Demetrios has traveled these muddy waters before and I am hoping he devises a strategy to demonstrate to the Ecumenical Throne the error of their awfully aggressive, unprecedented action.

But we must not back down and submit to the confusion the Throne is attempting to foster. That's what they'd love, to give them a reason to impose unilateral action.

The GOArch clergy and faithful must unite in support of the properly constituted "Three Person Ballot." We may need to rally and mount a campaign such as was mounted by GOAL (Greek Orthodox American Leaders) in 1997-'99. Hopefully, we can keep a level head, while remaining focused and determined to support the "Three Person Ballot" as it was properly constituted, but be prepared for them to cite "disobedience," another one of their means to act unilaterally, without regard to the process in the Charter.

This rejection of the "Three Person Ballot" demonstrates it's also past the time that GOArch acts to advocate for the semi-autonomous Constitutional Charter that the GOArch Holy Synod of Bishops submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 2000.

You're blaming the EP for the end of Iakovos? Put the blame where it belongs, on lay scoundrels like Stephanopoulos.

I was blaming the Ecumenical Patriarchate for the election of his successor, Archbishop Spyridon, whose 3 year Archepiscopal tenure saw more discord in the Holy Archdiocese than it had witnessed in 67 years.

And again you're purposely overlooking the part played by American Greeks of wealth and low character stirring up hatred against the Church.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline ialmisry

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2017, 03:55:36 PM »
The venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is as wrong with this unprecedented act as it was with its election to succeed Archbishop Iakovos in 1996. The Holy Eparchial Synod appropriately, methodically, and prayerfully deliberated its "Three Person Ballot."

Archbishop Demetrios has traveled these muddy waters before and I am hoping he devises a strategy to demonstrate to the Ecumenical Throne the error of their awfully aggressive, unprecedented action.

But we must not back down and submit to the confusion the Throne is attempting to foster. That's what they'd love, to give them a reason to impose unilateral action.

The GOArch clergy and faithful must unite in support of the properly constituted "Three Person Ballot." We may need to rally and mount a campaign such as was mounted by GOAL (Greek Orthodox American Leaders) in 1997-'99. Hopefully, we can keep a level head, while remaining focused and determined to support the "Three Person Ballot" as it was properly constituted, but be prepared for them to cite "disobedience," another one of their means to act unilaterally, without regard to the process in the Charter.

This rejection of the "Three Person Ballot" demonstrates it's also past the time that GOArch acts to advocate for the semi-autonomous Constitutional Charter that the GOArch Holy Synod of Bishops submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 2000.

You're blaming the EP for the end of Iakovos? Put the blame where it belongs, on lay scoundrels like Stephanopoulos.

I was blaming the Ecumenical Patriarchate for the election of his successor, Archbishop Spyridon, whose 3 year Archepiscopal tenure saw more discord in the Holy Archdiocese than it had witnessed in 67 years.

And again you're purposely overlooking the part played by American Greeks of wealth and low character stirring up hatred against the Church.
You mean the Phanar's archon class?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: EP rejects candidates for Chicago Metropolis
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2017, 04:31:39 PM »
The venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is as wrong with this unprecedented act as it was with its election to succeed Archbishop Iakovos in 1996. The Holy Eparchial Synod appropriately, methodically, and prayerfully deliberated its "Three Person Ballot."

Archbishop Demetrios has traveled these muddy waters before and I am hoping he devises a strategy to demonstrate to the Ecumenical Throne the error of their awfully aggressive, unprecedented action.

But we must not back down and submit to the confusion the Throne is attempting to foster. That's what they'd love, to give them a reason to impose unilateral action.

The GOArch clergy and faithful must unite in support of the properly constituted "Three Person Ballot." We may need to rally and mount a campaign such as was mounted by GOAL (Greek Orthodox American Leaders) in 1997-'99. Hopefully, we can keep a level head, while remaining focused and determined to support the "Three Person Ballot" as it was properly constituted, but be prepared for them to cite "disobedience," another one of their means to act unilaterally, without regard to the process in the Charter.

This rejection of the "Three Person Ballot" demonstrates it's also past the time that GOArch acts to advocate for the semi-autonomous Constitutional Charter that the GOArch Holy Synod of Bishops submitted to the Ecumenical Patriarchate in 2000.

You're blaming the EP for the end of Iakovos? Put the blame where it belongs, on lay scoundrels like Stephanopoulos.

I was blaming the Ecumenical Patriarchate for the election of his successor, Archbishop Spyridon, whose 3 year Archepiscopal tenure saw more discord in the Holy Archdiocese than it had witnessed in 67 years.

And again you're purposely overlooking the part played by American Greeks of wealth and low character stirring up hatred against the Church.
You mean the Phanar's archon class?

Don't confuse me.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy